CIA report: Israel will fall in 20 years
A study conducted by the Central Intelligence Agency (CIA) has cast doubt over Israel’s survival beyond the next 20 years.
The CIA report predicts “an inexorable movement away from a two-state to a one-state solution, as the most viable model based on democratic principles of full equality that sheds the looming specter of colonial Apartheid while allowing for the return of the 1947/1948 and 1967 refugees. The latter being the precondition for sustainable peace in the region.”
The study, which has been made available only to a certain number of individuals, further forecasts the return of all Palestinian refugees to the occupied territories, and the exodus of two million Israeli - who would move to the US in the next fifteen years.
“There is over 500,000 Israelis with American passports and more than 300,000 living in the area of just California,” International lawyer Franklin Lamb said in an interview with Press TV on Friday, adding that those who do not have American or western passport, have already applied for them.
“So I think the handwriting at least among the public in Israel is on the wall…[which] suggests history will reject the colonial enterprise sooner or later,” Lamb stressed.
He said CIA, in its report, alludes to the unexpectedly quick fall of the apartheid government in South Africa and recalls the disintegration of the Soviet Union in the early 1990s, suggesting the end to the dream of an ‘Israeli land’ would happen ‘way sooner’ than later.
The study further predicts the return of over one and a half million Israelis to Russia and other parts of Europe, and denotes a decline in Israeli births whereas a rise in the Palestinian population.
Lamb said given the Israeli conduct toward the Palestinians and the Gaza strip in particular, the American public — which has been voicing its protest against Tel Aviv’s measures in the last 25 years — may ‘not take it anymore’.
Some members of the US Senate Intelligence Committee have been informed of the report.
wait, i gotta see what yamit says on this.
whoever these clowns are, they’ve been reading too much galt and smearslimer.
we predict the fall of the cia in 20 years due to idiots who write studies like this.
Comment by bugsy — March 15, 2009 @ 8:08 pm
I don’t trust any representation made by an adult who says, “way sooner”.
Comment by Charles Martel — March 15, 2009 @ 8:42 pm
But Cannistraro, McGovern, and Scheuer told me that ‘the lobby’ is the one that has the CIA write these things in the first place. I’m confused…
Comment by jrob — March 15, 2009 @ 9:23 pm
or “There is over 500,000…”
This guy, and the CIA, get everything wrong — the population trend, the will of the American public, the “colonial enterprise” and “Apartheid” slanders, etc. May they have to eat their words, b’korov b’yameinu.
Whatever it takes to keep this garbage from becoming a self-fulfilling prophesy.
Comment by Jewish Survival — March 15, 2009 @ 9:52 pm
Who thinks America can survive 20 years? Yamit would tell you Israel’s fall has been predicted since the day she was born. They’ll update it in 20 years time.
Comment by NormanF — March 15, 2009 @ 11:34 pm
yes, the CIA get the reasons wrong, but Israel needs to be more accepting of secular Jews. THAT is the real problem with Israel’s future. (apparently the evangelical Christians think 2010 is the new date for Armeggedon. one of my doctors took a one day bus tour when his cruise ship landed in Israel last fall, and discovered he and his wife were on a bus full of American Evangelicals who nicely explained the 2010 date.) When I told him my dilemma in proving matrilineal descent, he was stunned because he cannot prove it either. What are the rabbis thinking? This seems to be a key reason why support for Israel is fading with American Jews. Lucky for Israel there are so many Evangelical Christians who are unwavering.
send the Dalai Lama a thank you for highlighting what a REAL occupation looks like, though even he fails to admit the real reason China wants the Tibetan plateau is water. sounds like Syria…
Comment by Birdalone — March 16, 2009 @ 12:43 am
Really, a press release from an Iranian website run out of Tehran? Any confirmation from a reliable source?
Comment by Robert S Barnes — March 16, 2009 @ 2:07 am
The original CIA report would make a good collectors’ item, to display in a museum in Jerusalem about countries such as the US, which USED to exist.
Comment by BlandOatmeal — March 16, 2009 @ 4:26 am
Well Bugsy, lets say this is one possibility among a myriad of other possibilities. The CIA has a very non credible history for accurately predicting what will be. Tomorrow and next week no less up to and beyond 20 years. As Pam Geller wrote on another thread something is happening and those of us who still retain faith in our creater and Tanach can see things moving at a very advanced pace toward a sing objective. We are witnessing a living miracle before our eyes but too many are blind to the supernatural causes. The creation of the State of Israel after 1900 years of trying without success is one. Another is the in gathering of some Jews from every nation on the globe, Another is the revival of a dead language as an everyday spoken language. Another is that a people who were virtually powerless for millennium, became some of the worlds best farmers,soldiers (Two prerequisites for the reestablishment of political and national sovereignty in the Land of Israel) The biblical idea of the few defeating the many has been demonstrated till now as a Jewish truism. God works through history and nature and sometimes, (often times) his works are hidden but a scenario would go something like this: First WW1 produced Balfour declaration, by having Ottomans loose to allies , thereby freeing and placing the fate of Palestine in the hands of Britain. WW 2 produced the Holocaust that produced enough sympathy of the Nations of the World to get their collective consent for the (unheard of one time event) in allowing Jews to reestablish national sovereignty on part of their historical, religious and cultural Lands. A small window of opportunity existed due to events that led to that fateful event. The abandonment of the Jews by the nations of the World including America when Israel was attacked by all the Arab nations and the Jews ( the few against the many not only survived but improved territorial positions and up to have a million Arabs fled or where driven out, which in hindsight was not only a positive event for us but a necessary prerequisite for reestablishment of a Jewish homeland. The 67 war not only can stand alone as evidence of the supernatural input but it led directly to the awakening of Soviet Jews to their forgotten Jewishness and produced almost a million new immigrants of most highly educated and patriotic Jews to counter high Arab birthrates and give our economy a massive shot in the arm at that time. A miracle? Any event can be taken by themselves and explained in rational terms but taken all together in such a short span of history and time points to the irrational. Nothing should have happened because none of those happenings had ever occurred before.
I would conclude that something is happening and happening at a quickened and advanced pace. Conventional logic, thinking and predictions have never applied to Jews in our long and eventful history and certainly cannot be applied to us today.
Three times in our history the Jews were exiled or forced out of the land and three times they returned ( at least some did).
First time was the Biblical account of the Exodus when most Hebrews stayed in Egypt. Then Babylon where out of 1-2 million Jews living in a comfortable exile refused to leave or return when Cyrus permitted it and that was only after 70 years only forty thousand returned. Those Hebrews who stayed in Egypt were assimilated and lost to history. Most of those Jews who stayed in Babylon likewise were lost. Mathematically
based on the number of Jews before the Babylonian exile, the numbers of Jews today should be around 900 million. Wars, diseases, and holocausts can only account for part of the reasons Jews are today so small in number. Most assimilated into their foreign cultures and were lost to the Jewish people. Today our history in so many ways mirrors that of Babylon exile and return that it’s uncanny. The one thing I have learned about the Jews and History is that the Jews never learn from their own history and from generation to generation make the same mistakes over and over.
For all the exaggerations of ancient historians, Jews constituted a respectable percentage of the civilized world then. Jewish presence was considerable in Europe just seventy years ago. A century ago, the number of Jews and Arabs in the world was about equal, around twenty million each. Today, the Arabs at 300 million are twenty times the number of Jews. Such disparities are not realistically recoverable. Moreover, globalization, mobility, and open societies threaten the Jewish survival. In the earlier times, assimilation was slow: some Jews baptized, some gentiles married into the Jewish people. The trends were slow, giving the Jews enough time to adapt and react, to re-group and restructure our Jewishness. Today, we cannot keep pace with assimilation: the entire American Jewry perished in two generations only; the intermarriage rate among the young atheists hits 90%.
So the divine plan for Jews is either to perish as a people, or to be left only in Israel. The messianic scenario involves substantially all Jews moving to the Land of Israel. The Bible recognizes King Cyrus a messiah even though most Jews refused returning to Israel; messiah need not return everyone. There are two ways to assure that almost all Jews return: make everyone return, or make those who don’t return, perish. Jews refused the first option, so we may be witnessing the second one unfolding. One third perished in the Holocaust and another third is quickly through mass assimilation, only the last third according to biblical prophesy will survive.
Comment by yamit82 — March 16, 2009 @ 4:27 am
Global Research run out of Quebec looks like a website for Israel demonizers and moonbats. Just scroll down the list of authors, articles and subjects. This alleged CIA report could be the product of what author Ken Timmerman calls the ’shadow warriors in the Company in McLean, Virginia who have it in for Israel and for American Jews. The scenario spun in this ‘report’ looks suspiciously familiar -the fictional work of Michael Chabon, “The Yiddish Policeman’s Union” - about detectives in the safe haven in the Sitka district of Alaska created by the US for Jews who failed to establish the State of Israel in 1948. And what arethe mamaloschen speaking detectives hot on the trail of Jews who want to try it again!!
Comment by Jerry Gordon — March 16, 2009 @ 4:34 am
Of course, yamit is right.
What we may face over the next 20 years is rather the fall of the West, which is already visibly in full progress in several countries. Great Britain will be an Islamic Republic long before 2030. The big question is when the USA will turn into the UISA. It may not be long after 2030, or what?
Comment by Per — March 16, 2009 @ 4:42 am
What will happen in much less than 20 years is this : the US and Europe will disappear by the hand of Israel.
Comment by Tar Yag — March 16, 2009 @ 5:28 am
In my opinion, this sounds like a CIA and an Obama wish list. Israel, even thru wars, will live, thrive and enlarge. In the long run, will the US come to Israel for protection?
Comment by Ed D — March 16, 2009 @ 11:15 am
history always shamed those who predicted its end, and in no century was there a shortage of doomsayers. I’m not eager to join their ridiculed ranks, but there are some arguments beyond the claims of Maya calendar’ watchers that the time runs faster now as the end of our cycle draws near. Even Rambam, though quoting the Talmudic curse over those who calculate the end of times, offered his own estimate, now long expired.
God offered 40-day grace period to Nineveh, and 40-year – to Judea after Israel was destroyed. Nineveh repented and survived, but Judea didn’t and perished. In the current Israel, Jews first rebelled against the divine will in 1967 when we failed to annex the land of Judea which God gave in our hands miraculously. God slapped us with the Yom Kippur war, and saved us in it. Then we sinned irreparably by giving away Sinai, the Promised Land. Did 1978 start a forty-year countdown?
There is a place in Esther 9 where, extremely unusually, four Hebrew letters are of non-standard size. The sages have long maintained that’s a prophecy. The four letters make the number 5-707, which is a Hebrew equivalent to the Gregorian year 1946-1947. That year, ten Nazis were hanged in Nuremberg, and transvestite Goring committed suicide. In Esther, Haman’s ten sons are hanged, and his daughter committed suicide, according to a midrash. To drive the point home to Jews, one of the Nazis, whose name is not deserved to be mentioned, screamed “The Purim 1946” at the gallows. In Esther 3, eleven months passed from the king’s decree on extermination of Jews to the salvation; 11 years passed from the 1935 Nuremberg laws to the 1946 Nuremberg trials. In 1953, Stalin died during or just before the Purim, days before the planned date of wiping out all Soviet Jews by transferring them to the coldest place in Siberia.
There are other strange correlations, including the number of Jews killed fighting for Jerusalem in 1967, the number of years between independence and capturing the Temple Mount (same as for King Jehoiakim), etc. Every such oddity can be explained rationally - it is a matter of Jewish belief that God performs miracles without violating the laws of nature – but there are just too many coincidences.
Comment by yamit82 — March 16, 2009 @ 12:13 pm
In a plea for help, President Nasser of Egypt phoned King Hussein of Jordan. Informing him that the Egyptian/Syrian forces were winning easily, Nasser demanded a pledge of alliance from Jordan, and invited them to a “victory” party in Tel Aviv. Hussein agreed to send in his forces to finish off Israel. General Uzi Narcis, Israeli commander of forces on the West Bank had been instructed not to fire a single shot at Jordan during the encounter with Egypt and Syria. But with Jordan coming from the east thinking they were “finishing the war, Narcis was forced to counter-attack. Not only did he defeat Jordan, but in the process captured the Arab section of Jerusalem and the entire West Bank—including the Mount of Olives and the Kidron valley. Israel also took back the Sinai. Palestinian Arabs fled to Jordan, where the PLO began to launch attacks on citizens and children in populated Israeli areas. Israel retaliated with force. As the Israeli tanks moved in column formation through St. Stephen’s Gate,
Comment by yamit82 — March 16, 2009 @ 12:25 pm
thanks yamit.
two comments. the jews who remained in egypt (80%!) died in the plague of darkness.
re the messianic era, i think there is agreement amongst many rabbis that all the jews will be ingathered at that time. navi, the prophets, are clear about H’ bringing jews home from the vast four corners of the world.
as you know, it is our nature and essence to maintain not only the hope but the assurance that this is actually in process at this time, not always ‘visible’.
your discussion of these miracles is important for all to remember. and your warnings about the dire results of assimilation are not well enough known in the jewish world; particularly the ‘liberal’ jewish world.
lastly, the david/goliat scenario is also essential to remember esp when considering the ratio of moslems to jews.
i’ll bet on david anytime.
Comment by bugsy — March 16, 2009 @ 1:00 pm
Jews are already here. Those that refuse like the 6 million will perish. They refused to leave the exile in a timely manner when it was possible to do so. G-d always puts in place the cure before the tragedy. Palestine was open for a long enough period and even when closed a million Jews storming the gates would have gotten in. In that the rabis were complicit. Most perished with their brothers and sisters. When G-d tells the Jews to vacate the exile he does not play games, you do it or else.
Columbus was a crypto or Morano Jew whose voyages were financed by Jews on the eve of the expulsion. The discoveries of Columbus did not help the Jews of Spain but they provided 450 years later the shelter and safe haven for other Jews.
The Rambam (Mimonides) writes:
It is forbidden at all times to leave Eretz Yisrael for the Diaspora except: to study Torah; to marry; or to save [one's property] from the gentiles [lit. the worshippers of the stars and signs]. [After accomplishing these ends,] one must return to Eretz Yisrael.
Mishne Torah, Sefer Shoftim, The Laws of Kings and Their Wars, Chapter 5, Halakha 9.1
Maimonides continues in the same halakha:
Similarly, one may leave Eretz Yisrael to do business. However, it is forbidden [to leave with the intent] of settling permanently in the Diaspora unless the famine in [the land] is so severe that a dinar’s worth of wheat is sold at two dinars. When do these conditions apply? When one possesses financial resources and food is expensive. However, if food is inexpensive, but a person cannot find financial resources or employment and has no money available, he may leave and go to any place where he can find relief. Although it is permitted to leave [Eretz Yisrael] under these circumstances, it is not pious behavior. Behold, Mahlon and Kilyon were two of the great men of the generation [of Ruth] and they left [Eretz Yisrael] only out of great distress. Nevertheless, they were considered by G-d to be worthy of death.2
Be it maintained that the Jewish people is a National-Religious people whose fulfillment of purpose rests in the reclamation of Eretz Yisrael and in the Jewish institutions that govern it. Unique among the nations, only the Jewish people is a people for whom it is a religious and national obligation to establish an independent polity. As important to the physical reclamation of the land is the physical return of the Jewish people to the biblically promised lands of our forefathers. It is certain that this position, wholly understood in all its significance, is not within the realm of current public discourse.
Thinking Jews need have as their agenda the construction of such a nation whose faith rests in G-d and whose path is Torah. In every generation decisions must be made and crossroads passed. In our time the Jewish people is blessed in that it possesses the building block upon which to proceed. We must make ours that generation which is confident of the reality and truth of Divine Providence. With this knowledge, the only failure is the refusal to act, and the lack of faith that accompanies it. The test of each individual is in the actions he takes, not the momentary success or apparent failure of the endeavor.
Know that it is the obligation of all men, and in particular the Jew, to strive for knowledge of the truth and to act accordingly. Within reach is the restoration of the Jewish nation as conceived by our Sages. The Jewish people have only to possess the will in order to witness the fruition of a true Jewish nation whose in-gathering is complete and whose support of the Jewish community is unyielding and resolute. Know that G-d has promised the Jewish people the Land of Israel as the physical homeland for its national existence. Know also that there can be no other reasons for the establishment of a Jewish State other than for it to represent the totality of Torah thought and observance. Put more succinctly, the only viable Jewish state is a state in which Jews behave as Jews: that the law of the land is the Law of the Jews. There is no other way for one to justify the need for an independent Jewish polity.
There have been many arguments along this line and, of course, there are many opinions on this subject. Yet, the one thing that cannot be denied is the time-transcending idea, as well as the reality, of the existence of the Jewish people. No doubt that every people wants to live and prosper; however, the distinction for the Jewish people is clear — there is no need for the Jewish existence if it is not for the aims served. These objectives are not within the realm of the mundane — they are, indeed, among the most sublime and holy of all possible human ends.
The Centrality of the Land of Israel
For purposes of clarity and source reference, it is required that authoritative Jewish texts be summoned to demonstrate the position stated above. To begin this exploration, the topic of a Jewish homeland and its natural consequence, a Jewish polity, are to be examined.
The Rambam (Mimonides) writes:
It is forbidden at all times to leave Eretz Yisrael for the Diaspora except: to study Torah; to marry; or to save [one's property] from the gentiles [lit. the worshippers of the stars and signs]. [After accomplishing these ends,] one must return to Eretz Yisrael.
Mishne Torah, Sefer Shoftim, The Laws of Kings and Their Wars, Chapter 5, Halakha 9.1
Maimonides continues in the same halakha:
Similarly, one may leave Eretz Yisrael to do business. However, it is forbidden [to leave with the intent] of settling permanently in the Diaspora unless the famine in [the land] is so severe that a dinar’s worth of wheat is sold at two dinars. When do these conditions apply? When one possesses financial resources and food is expensive. However, if food is inexpensive, but a person cannot find financial resources or employment and has no money available, he may leave and go to any place where he can find relief. Although it is permitted to leave [Eretz Yisrael] under these circumstances, it is not pious behavior. Behold, Mahlon and Kilyon were two of the great men of the generation [of Ruth] and they left [Eretz Yisrael] only out of great distress. Nevertheless, they were considered by G-d to be worthy of death.2
Source for Mishne Torah, Sefer Shoftim, The Laws of Kings and Their Wars, Chapter 5, Halakha 9:
Talmud Bavli, Bava Batra, 91a, Our Rabbis taught: It is not permitted to go forth from the Land of Israel to a foreign country unless two se’ahs are sold for one sela’. R. Shimon said: [This is permitted only] when one cannot find [anything] to buy, but when one is able [to find something] to buy, even if a se’ah cost a sela’ one must not depart. And so said R. Shimon b. Yohai: Elimelekh, Mahlon and Kilyon were [of the] great men of their generation, and they were [also] leaders of their generation. Why, then, were they punished? Because they left Eretz Yisrael for a foreign country; for it is written, And all the city was astir concerning them, and the women said: Is this Naomi? What [is meant by] ‘is this Naomi?’ — R. Yitzhak said: They said, ‘Did you see what befell Naomi who left Eretz Yisrael for a foreign country?’
Talmud Bavli, Bava Batra, 91a, R. Hanan b. Raba said in the name of Rav: Elimelekh and Salmon and Peloni Almoni and the father of Naomi all were sons of Nahshon, the son of Aminadav [Sh'mot 5:23]. What does he come to teach us [by this statement]? — That even the merit of one’s ancestors is of no avail when one leaves the Land for a foreign country.
Rational thought dictates that a man not leave his household in most circumstances and especially in times of difficulty. At the moment in which desperation is at hand, the virtuous display fortitude, strength and most of all presence. The act of leaving, to be conceived of as moral, would require great benefit for the whole of the family and its purposes. When the nation of Israel is understood as the obligation of all its members it is easier to make the comparison to a family and household. As to the reverence placed upon the meaning of holiness ascribed to the Land is, of course, parabolic and intended to draw our attention to the overall significance of Eretz Israel to the purposes of the Jewish people. Without the Land the polity could not exist. Just as without a dwelling place a family is but more individuals in a group, not significant or unique in their identity or culture, mores or habits. A very often quoted reference to this idea is the following halakha.
Mishne Torah, Sefer Shoftim, The Laws of Kings and Their Wars, Chapter 5, Halakha 10.
Great Sages would kiss the borders of Eretz Yisrael, kiss its stones, and roll in its dust. Similarly, it says: Behold, your servants hold her stones dear and cherish her dust. [Tehillim 102:15]3
Source for Halakha 10:
Talmud Bavli, Ketuvot, 112a, R. Hisda stated: What [was meant] by the Scriptural text, I give thee a pleasant land, the heritage of the deer? Why was the Land of Israel compared to a deer? — To tell that as the skin of a deer cannot contain its flesh so cannot the Land of Israel contain its produce. Another explanation: As the deer is the swiftest among the animals so is the Land of Israel the swiftest of all lands in the ripening of its fruit. If [one should suggest that] as the deer is swift but his flesh is not fat so is the Land of Israel swift to ripen but its fruits are not rich, it was explicitly stated in Scripture, Flowing with milk and honey [thus indicating that they are] richer than milk and honey.
When R. Zera went up to the Land of Israel and could not find a ferry wherein to cross [a certain river] he grasped a rope bridge and crossed. Thereupon a certain Sadducee sneered at him: ‘Hasty people, that put your mouths before your ears [Na'ase V'nishma' -- Sh'mot 24:7], you are still, as ever, clinging to your hastiness.’ ‘The spot,’ the former replied, ‘which Moshe and Aharon were not worthy [of entering], who could assure me that I should be worthy?’ R. Abba used to kiss the cliffs of Acco. R. Hannina used to repair its obstacles. R. Ammi and R. Assi used to rise [from their seats to move] from the sun to the shade and from to the shade to the sun. R. Hiyya b. Gamda rolled himself in its dust, for it is said in the Scripture, For Thy servants take pleasure in her stones, and love her dust. [Tehillim 102:15]
The parabolic reference to the Land is very clear. The reason for the Land is its existence as place, not just any place, but the place in which revelation is to be actualized. The meaning of the deer and of the milk and honey becomes obvious when understood as it was intended by the Sages. That is, as the place in which the maturation of the true polity is possible only through the use of the laws that instruct the taking of the Land in the first place. The polity dictated by the law exceeds the otherwise and commonly accepted use of the Land. The concepts as articulated by the authentic Jewish polity once actualized indeed exceed the physical borders of the Land and have universal consequences.
A Jew who dwells in the Land ultimately is a reference to the Jew that not only subsists in Eretz Israel, but lives according to the statues defining life in the Land. Therefore, even one who transgresses is afforded forgiveness within the scope of the law of the Jewish polity. It is the system of law that gives definition to habitation in the Land and as a consequence, meaning to the Land. The halakha relating to this issue is the following.
Mishne Torah, Sefer Shoftim, The Laws of Kings and Their Wars, Chapter 5, Halakha 11.
The Sages said: The transgressions of one who dwells in Eretz Yisrael are forgiven, as it says: The inhabitant shall not say, ‘I am sick.’ The people who dwell there shall be forgiven for their transgressions. [Isaiah 33:24]
Even one who walks four cubits there will merit the World to Come and one who is buried there receives atonement as though the place in which he is were an altar of atonement, as it says: His land will atone for his people. [D'varim 32:43] [In contrast, the prophet, Amos [Amos 7:17], used the expression] You shall die in an impure land — a prophecy of retribution.
There is no comparison between [the merit of] a person who lives in Eretz Yisrael and one brought there after death [for burial]. Nevertheless, great Sages would bring their dead there. Take an example from our Fathers, Ya’akov and Yosef, the righteous.
Source for Halakha 11:
Talmud Bavli, Ketuvot, 111a, R. Eleazar said: Whoever is domiciled in the Land of Israel lives without transgression, for it is said in Scripture, And the inhabitants shall not say, ‘I am sick’; the people that dwell therein shall be forgiven their iniquity. [Isaiah 33:24] Said Raba to Rav Ashi: we apply this to those who suffer from disease.
R. Anan said: Whosoever is buried in the Land of Israel is deemed to be buried under the altar; since in the latter it is written in Scripture, An altar of earth shalt thou make for me, [Sh'mot 20:21] and in respect to the former it is written in Scripture, And his land doth make expiation for his people. [D'varim 32:43]
. . . And the spirit to walk therein [Isaiah 42:5], of it, said R. Yirmeyahu b. Abba in the name of R. Yohanan, that whoever walks four cubits in the Land of Israel is assured a place in the World to Come.
As a participant in the making of the Jewish polity, the individual Jew has assumed upon himself certain fundamental understandings of self and nation. Within this context is the presupposition of revelation as true (i.e., the laws of the Torah transcend time and that human nature remains constant). The notion of Torah as a time transcending document is exhibited in the previous halakhot while the idea of unchanging human nature is first addressed with the halakha that follows and secondly discussed in the following subsection of this work.
Mishne Torah, Sefer Shoftim, The Laws of Kings and Their Wars, Chapter 5, Halakha 12.
At all times, a person should dwell in Eretz Yisrael, even in a city whose population is primarily of worshippers of idols, rather than dwell in the Diaspora in a city whose population is primarily Jewish.
In that all who leave [the land] for the Diaspora is as though he worships idols, as it is says: They have driven me out today from dwelling in the heritage of G-d, saying, ‘Go serve other gods.’ [Shmuel I 26:19] Similarly, [Ezekiel's (13:9) prophecies of] retribution state: They shall not come to the Land of Israel.
Just as it is forbidden to leave the Land for the Diaspora, so it is forbidden to leave Bavel for other lands, as it is written: They shall be brought to Bavel and there they shall be [until I take notice of them . . . and restore them to this place, i.e. the Land of Israel]. [Jeremiah 27:22]5
Source Halakha 12:
Talmud Bavli, Ketuvot, 110b, Our Rabbis taught: One should always live in the Land of Israel, even in a town most of whose inhabitants are idolaters, but let no one live outside the Land, in a town most of whose inhabitants are Israelites; for whoever lives in the Land of Israel may be considered to have a G-d, but whoever lives outside the Land may be regarded as one who has no G-d. For it is said in Scripture, To give you the Land of Canaan, to be your G-d. [Vayikra 25:38] Has he, then, who does not live in the Land, have no G-d? But [this is what the text intended] to tell you, that whoever lives outside the Land may be regarded as one who worships idols. Similarly it was said in Scripture in [the story of] David, For they have driven me out this day that I should not cleave to the inheritance of the L-rd, saying: Go, serve other gods. [Shmuel I 26:9] Now, whoever said to David, ‘Serve other gods’? But [the text intended] to tell you that whoever lives outside the Land may be regarded as one who worships idols. [Tosafot,'Avoda Zara, 5]
The Jew living outside the Land, constitutes the worshipping of idols because doing so denies the foundations of the Torah, i.e., the enactment of the Torah, and the living by the statutes of the Law. The project of enacting the Torah can only be legally accomplished in the Land as defined by the Law. The goal of Jewish practice is a single idea that can be dissected into three interrelated and independent subsections. The single idea is to know G-d, that is, to love G-d since the limits of human knowledge subject man’s knowing of G-d to the loving of Him. Subsection one of the idea deals with individual development; subsection two, with national development; and subsection three impacts upon universal development of mankind. Each subsection is dependent on the precepts of the Law, for it is the Law that elucidates these subsections and places definitional perimeters of their understanding. Development of self begins with adherence to all commandments which, in turn, lead to the national responsibility and finally its universal ramifications. Again, it is the participation in the project and what that participation says about the belief in the endeavor itself that is so central. There is such a notion in Jewish law because the foundation of Jewish practice is founded upon the creation of an autonomous Jewish political entity in the Land of Israel. At certain points in Jewish study the simplicity of this idea is overwhelming.
I am not talking Zionism here I am talking Halacha.
Comment by yamit82 — March 16, 2009 @ 1:31 pm
Bugsy’s bet on David may be smudged by Leo Cullum’s cartoon on page 86 of the March 16 issue of The New Yorker, where a David (who looks like an Irish boy) says to Goliath “Instead, let me be your investment adviser and get you eleven-per-cent return, year in and year out, regardless of market conditions.” rather twisted satire on Madoff, but at least David is drawn as a light-haired, snubnosed cartoon kid. Goliath is drawn as bearded with a prominent nose, and ready to kill.
come on yamit82, lighten up. The CIA is always wrong. and we cannot all have your deep faith.
Comment by Birdalone — March 16, 2009 @ 1:40 pm
This is crock, merely wishful thinking on the part of the CIA.
That sounds like an extraordinarily high number. But if true, the end of Israel can become a self-fulfilling prophesy.
What kind of bullshit is this? Israel is not a colonial enterprise. Jews are the indigenous people of Israel. And Israel is most certainly not an apartheid state, however every other country in the Middle East is, so they should be the countries which fall. What is it in the perverse mindset of people in the intelligence and foreign policy establishment which makes them demonize Israel, the only free and democratic country in the region, the only one which is NOT an apartheid state, while cozying up to the real apartheid states, dicatorships, terror states in the region?
Comment by Laura — March 16, 2009 @ 3:20 pm
Bird forget the faith part and just learn the history
Here is an audio overview of Jewish history. Crash course on Jewish history.
http://www.simpletoremember.com/authors/a/crash-course-jewish-history-mp3s/
Comment by yamit82 — March 16, 2009 @ 3:35 pm
Laura your right, its all BS. It’s on the wall of this administrations Left Wing liberal bathroom, right next to the writing, “Our aim is to please your aim will help” and above the writing “Why are you looking up here, are you ashamed of it”.
Comment by rongrand — March 16, 2009 @ 4:40 pm
“Global Research” website makes the far, far left wing nut jobs and the far, far right wing nut jobs look sane and sober and dignified by comparison. Such a load of poorly written crap; why dignify it with any wider circulation.
Comment by noamayal — March 16, 2009 @ 6:04 pm
thanks Yamit, but I know Jewish history quite well. just think the ongoing war against secular Jews like me by the rabbis is what is tearing Israel apart (Beitanu v Shas?), and losing some American Jewish support. Don’t make it so very difficult for us to make Aliyah or treat us worse than goyim (which happens quite a bit in NYC). We don’t put religion on birth certificates. I don’t think my mother (may she rest in peace) even had a birth certificate!
wonder what the CIA thinks of the Russian report that predicts the disintegration of USA within 20 years? you guys should just ignore the CIA - they are always wrong.
Comment by Birdalone — March 17, 2009 @ 12:05 am
birdalone, it is not wise to mock king david. my ‘bet’ was a manner of speaking. the truth is that he will prevail.
Comment by bugsy — March 17, 2009 @ 3:27 am
to yamit, my brother. your knowledge is indeed very impressive. respectfully to you: my torah teacher in yerushalayim has said repeatedly that the finaly geulah, may it come soon, will involve a great ingathering from the four corners as we say in our daily prayers.
here’s tehilim 138:
tehilim 138
by david, i will acknowledge You with all my heart, in the presence of princes, i will sing to You. i will prostrate myself toward Your Holy Sanctuary, and i will acknowledge Your Name, for Your kindess and Your truth; for You have exalted Your promise even beyond Your Name. on the day i cried You answered me, Your emboldened me, there is strength in my soul. all the kings of the earth will acknowledge You HaShem because they heard teh words of Your mouth. and they will sing of the ways of HaShem, for great is the glory of HaShem. for though HaShem is exalted, He notes the lowly, and the High One makes Himself known from afar. though i walk amidst distress, You give me life; to counter the wrath of my enemies You extend Your hand, and Your right hand saves me. may HaShem complete on my behalf; Hashem Your kindness is eternal–do not let go of the creatures of Your hand.
kol tuv!
Comment by bugsy — March 17, 2009 @ 10:55 am
Bugsy my friend not to contradict your teacher, I would suggest you look around and simple make a quick count. All the Jews from the Muslim countries have returned. Most of the Jews in the Soviet Republics who still consider themselves Jews have immigrated to Israel Half million or so in Western Europe and about the same in South America. That leaves north America and they are assimilating so fast that the trend is all but irreversible. In two more generations they will be totally gone to The nation of Israel. Fully one third of all Jews perished in the holocaust and another third by assimilation. Only the third living in Israel will survive. Worst of all will be the religious orthodoxy in the exile.
Cyrus the Great was called Mosheiach in the Talmud but only 40 thousand returned from Bavel. The point is Now is the time return to the land of Israel when there is little difficulty. lame excuses won’t cut it that is the choice or perish. Free choice here so those who choose the exile one way or another are doomed or their children or grandchildren, I am not a seer, but if anyone does not see the unfolding of G-ds plan he doesn’t want to or is blind.
Comment by yamit82 — March 17, 2009 @ 11:42 am
Bird, it is the secular Jews that have caused the Religious orthodoxy to to close ranks and to stake positions never before at least in recent memory, far stricter with more walls against the non observant. An uncomfortable question resurfaced in the government clash with the rabbinical courts: who is a Jew? Israel was never a secular state; rabbis had established the criterion of citizenship. Now our liberal atheist state refuses to part with the traditional – religious – definition of a Jew and resorts to bizarre option of reforming rabbinical courts. Other liberal democracies secularized; The Israeli state usurps control over the religion.
Israel ran into a bind of Jewish – atheist – ethnically blind state. The only alternative to religious definition of Jewishness is bloodline. Such genetic definition raises doubts about many Jews whose ancestral lines cannot be traced, and bans newcomers. The bloodline criterion is inconsistent with historically accepted definition of Jewishness through religion and permanently relegates non-Jewish citizens of Israel to inferior status in the Jewish state. Religious conversion is the only way to equalize non-Jewish citizens in Jewish state. Israeli government has to retain the religious definition of Jewishness to remain both Jewish and remotely democratic. But the core issue of defining the proper citizens is too sweet for the totalitarian machine to leave it to the religious establishment.
Religious conversion doesn’t solve the inherent incompatibility of Jewish state with ethnic-blind democracy. Even offered the most liberal conversion procedure, Arabs won’t switch to Judaism. Faced with increasing presence of Arabs and other non-Jews, Israeli government will abandon the notion of Jewish state and switch instead to Israeli nationalism. Israeli nation will include Arabs, Slavs, and Blacks, Muslims and Christians. The Jewish state will be salvaged for ethnic-blind democracy.
The government would likely draw the line between the religious Jews and other Israelis, thus lumping non-observant Jews together with Arabs and others. Atheist Israeli Jews will be thus be stripped of their Jewish identity; assimilation will speed up.
The rabbinical conversion is obnoxious and in many points outright silly. Given the large number of atheist Jews, it makes sense to accept the conversion of sympathetic Gentiles who are already in Israel. Alienating them and their half-Jewish children is impractical. Rabbis are correct, though, to erect a barrier to be overcome by proselytes. Faced with hundreds of millions of hostile Muslims nearby and hostility from much of the Christian world, the new Jews must not falter. The barrier of conversion, while high, need not be offensive. Instead of learning to tear the toilet paper in advance of the Shabbat, proselytes could prove their loyalty to the Jewish nation in more relevant ways, such as settling in frontier towns of Israel - which many do, anyway.
The would-be proselytes often blame the rabbinical courts for forcing them to become “religious rather than Jewish.” But we know no other way to Jewishness other than through religion. An alternative would have been a course in Jewish history and cooking, an evidently untenable proposal. The conversion aspirants also complain that at the end of the study, their conversion is not assured. Though the rabbinical courts indeed cheated many aspirants who otherwise knew Judaism reasonably, the conversion process’ positive result could never be assured. There is hardly a danger of mass fake conversions in Israel; the Gentiles already here have little reason to join the Jewish nation other than out of pure intentions. On the background of scores of atheist and leftist Jews, most converts know a lot about Judaism.
The rabbis correctly refuse to recognize Jewishness of many Slavs who apply for conversion but retain Russian culture and mentality. Closing down Russian-language media in Israel would go a long way toward more numerous and efficient conversions.
The debate about simplifying conversion for non-Jewish women is bizarre: there is no such conversion in the first place. The Torah is completely unconcerned about mothers: “God of your father” is an idiom but not “of your mother.” Hebrew tribes descended even from slave women, Jacob’s concubines whom he did not bother to marry: they were “given him” by his wives.
All foremothers were originally pagan; none has formally converted. Rachel practiced idolatry after marriage: she stole Lavan’s idols. The explanation that she took them away from Lavan to stop his idolatrous practice is mistaken: why would she risk hiding the idols instead of burning them?
Rabbis try to read conversion into Ruth’s, King David’s grandmother, words “Your God is my God,” but that is self-defeating position. For if Ruth the widow converted thus in front of Naomi, then she had not converted before, and had been pagan when marrying Naomi’s son.
Talmud establishes no specific conversion procedure for a reason: no one cared to ask the woman. She was married to a Jew in Jewish ceremony and led Jewish life. A pre-marital mikveh immersion - and she is Jewish.
Rabbis invented female conversion about a century ago when secular families became common, and marriage to a Jew ceased meaning Jewish life automatically. Nominal conversion did not change the facts: those families were not Jewish and their grandchildren rarely identify with Jewish people.
This is the point: gentile women can lead Jewish life and give birth to Jewish children, but never themselves become Jewish.
Rabbis postulated existence of a peculiar Jewish soul, but what about converts? It defies credulity to imagine that they acquire a new soul upon conversion; smacks of baptism and the dove, if you know what I mean. Rabbis solved the paradox by postulating that converts had the Jewish soul from birth, but it has been latent. Doubtful, to say the least.
Comment by yamit82 — March 17, 2009 @ 12:24 pm
Thanks Yamit82, for the explanation. MY puzzlement is that I am NOT an atheist. I was raised Jewish by parents who were raised Jewish unto all the generations (my father was a Kohan whose family sat shiva when his younger sister married a Lebanese Christian in the 1940’s), but I cannot prove this except to present my B’nai B’rith Youth Organization credentials from the 1960’s! Grandma Lena planted a whole forest in Israel in the 1950’s because I had the same birthday as she did, and I’ve kept my promise to her to never buy a German car.
yes, I know, find a rabbi who will help me with the credentials.
anyway, was just trying to explain softening support for Israel among younger, assimilated non-observant American Jews.
I just find it hard to understand that everywhere except Israel, I am a Jew.
Comment by Birdalone — March 17, 2009 @ 7:29 pm
Comment by dweller — March 17, 2009 @ 10:40 pm
I have explained the meaning of the United Front many times on Israpundit. It is on that basis that I respectfully pose that Yamit82 is a serious danger to the Jewish people. Given that he is so then could he please identify himself with his full name and identity so that we at last know who we talk to.
An example of the most superb (!!!) bullshit you are ever likely to find in the annals of humanity, if it were not so tragic it would be funny!
This is from Yamit82 hosted by the silent Ted Belman.
[begin quote from Yamit82 here]
We challenge Yamit82 to put his full and correct name in print on Israpundit, and if he will not do it for Belman to publish it, and tell Jews what he knows about this political fraud.
Let me put again one critical thought from above, remembering that every word in the above is critical, in the most poisonous sense of that word, for Jews today as they face dangers to equal the Holocaust.
I repeat once more this is poison, it must be acknowledged as such, yamit82 must be exposed as the charlatan that he is, all people in Israel rabbis otherwise who even hint at the thinking behind this must be fought to the bitter end, no quarter given.
What is this political pygmy idiot traitor saying?
That God ordained the Holocaust in order that Israel could come into being. So the murder of those 6 millions of Jews was part of God´s plan. God therefore was making it impossible that these 6 millions be saved in order that the greater plan of God for Israel come into being.
Who will fight against this poison of Yamit82.
I refer you now to the comments to that article. Please look at who it was that opposed this traitor to the Jews on this issue.
In fact it raises the whole issue of what happened to the Jews in the Holocaust and it raises what precisely was the Nazi Fascist phenomenon which struck down the Jews in the Holocaust.
As dialectical materialists we on 4international, the inheritors alone of the principles of Leon Trotsky, believe that it is eminently possible to understand the Holocaust and to draw the most vital lessons from it, which can guide us in the struggle of today.
Why does Yamit82 not approach the Holocaust from the standpoint of learning why it happened. The use of God by Yamit82 to hide the lessons of the Holocaust is the real issue here.
Comment by Felix Quigley — March 18, 2009 @ 10:55 am
Felix I think I have toggled your atheist communist nerve. I said taken individually every event can be explained in rational and even reasoned explanations. We Jews believe in the G-d of history not macro economic theory, not in dialectic anything.
I wrote a very long and tedious rebuttal to you and then decided to scrap it, as I remembered all the other back and forths we have had. I won’t change your opinion and you not mine so, I will leave it at that unless you can disprove anything I said, there isn’t any point in this conversation and disagreement.
Comment by yamit82 — March 18, 2009 @ 1:57 pm
Bird I am sure I don’t know all the facts but I don’t really see that you have a problem unless you have already tried and had problems but there are lots of good people who would help you and overcome any hurdles. If you are serious let me know. Ted has my permission to give you my e-mail if you want to discuss privately.
Comment by yamit82 — March 18, 2009 @ 2:02 pm
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090220/ap_on_re_us/ny_post_cartoon
NY Post apologizes — to some — over Obama cartoon
Same Cartoonist, Different Group. Offensive Cartoon in NY Post, But This Time About Jews. What Happened? Nothing. Where’s the ADL??? http://israeljewishnews.blogspot.com/2009/03/same-cartoonist-different-group.html
What Happened? Nothing. Where’s the ADL???
B”H
When I saw the “Dead Monkey” cartoon in the New York Post, I confess I didn’t think it was a racist attack on Obama.
However, I have to thank all the African Americans and their leaders out there who brought the issue up and insisted that they have an apology from the New York Post because it could be interpreted that way.
Why would I say such a thing? Don’t I have a sense of humor? Don’t I understand that the cartoonist did really mean to make the cartoon racist?
Well, I do have a sense of humor, and I do understand that it may not have been the cartoonist’s INTENTION to make a racist comment, and that we should give the cartoonist the benefit of the doubt.
However, I also understand that if you are a member of a minority group, and you let something like that go by without making a stink about it, you may just find yourself up to your neck in stink before you know it.
It is much better to demand respect, demand apologies, and be on the alert. When you have been hurt, when you have been trampled upon, and when you have faced hatred and oppression, a sense of humor is nice but it won’t get you a job or save you from a hate-filled mob at the end of the slipperly slope that is baseless hatred.
Now, saying that, I must bring up the latest set of cartoons by the same cartoonist at the NY Post–Mr. Sean Delones.
The cartoon for March 12th featured Bernie Madoff standing before a judge with a devil’s tail protruding from his backside; and the most recent cartoon, for March 15th, features Ruth Madoff standing before a door denying she has
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_4_OmBEc7iU8/Sb1tf-lU8JI/AAAAAAAABPI/E5934NGvPBw/s1600-h/greedcompare.jpg
simply an attack on Bernie Madoff, and that he has done a terrible evil so, of course, he would be portrayed as a devil. And, one could say that Ruth Madoff is probably being used to protect his assets for his family rather than turning them over to help his victims. But the story doesn’t end there, does it?
We all know that Bernie Madoff’s Jewishness is a very outward component of his public identity (and, in fact, is one reason why he is such a disappointing embarassment to most of us). His crime was a crime of association, and his associates trusted him BECAUSE he, like most of them, is Jewish. Madoff, like it or not, is a representative Jew–especially to those who want to hate Jews.
Now, most of us are aware that Jews have been portrayed as devils and as greedy money-grubbing cravens by anti-Semites throughout history.
It is a common and very dangerous stereotype, especially during an economic downturn.
Hitler used these very same images to gain sympathy for his cause in destroying the Jews. The Spanish Inquisition, the British purge, and the Russian Pogroms all had their basis in these dangerous images of Jews as devils or as greedy businessmen.
They are dangerous images, images that can lead to death for Jews around the world, and we shouldn’t let even one of them pass with the idea that we should “have a sense of humor” or “give the cartoonist the benefit of the doubt.”
Do you know that the ADL has just completed a study that shows that over 1/3 of Europeans blame Jews for the world financial crisis? That isn’t a study from 1938, that is a study completed just weeks ago!
So, what do Jews say about the latest comic creations of Sean Delonas?
Nothing.
There has been an overwhelming silence on the issue.
I think the silence is even more deadly than the implication of these cartoons. We have forgotten how to be careful of our image. We have forgotten how to demand respect. We have forgotten how to protect ourselves from the overwhelming hate that is sweeping the nation–with our name on it.
We can really learn something from African American leaders in the US, and we had better learn that lesson fast before we start to lose our jobs, our opportunities, and our lives under the overwhelming stench of negative, hateful, and dangerous Anti-Semitism.
I pray it’s not too late.
M
Posted by Michelle Nevada (Michelle_Nevada@yahoo.com) at 12:04 PM
Comment by yamit82 — March 18, 2009 @ 2:33 pm