Dershowitz and Cotler, afflicted by the same disease
By Ted Belman
You have all been following the debate between Dershowitz, the liberal, and Phillips, the “extremist”, and probably read the FrontPageMag edition of it. Israpundit posted it just the other day.
The first few comments on Frontgage referred to Hausman’s article, Obama’s “useful idiots”, and even posted the whole article there. Good PR for Hausman and Israpundit.
Now the following article was written by an acquaintance of mine in Toronto, taking another liberal, Irwin Cotler, to task for his embrace of Islam.
By Laura Rosen Cohen, National Post
“I have the highest respect for the religion of Islam, and recognize the heroic efforts of many religious leaders in contemporary Iran to stand up to the repressions wrought by the ruling system,”
says Jewish human rights activist Irwin Cotler.
“I refuse to associate these crimes generically with the mullahs of Iran, and I deplore any attempt to do so,”
he continued in his July 24th letter to the editor. And thus began yet another misguided chapter of the never-ending Jewish and liberal quest for the Islamic world to “like us”. Cotler’s bizarre statements have little to do with reality. Iran is where religious fervour , led by a religious leader-the Ayatollah Khomeni, brought upon the Islamic revolution. It is religious fervour — inspired by a perverse interpretation of Shiia Islam — that motivates Iran’s genocidal leader, with the continued blessings of the religious establishment.
It has been said that a definition of crazy is doing the same thing over and over again, expecting a different result. Certainly, there can be no better explanation for Jews, and particularly liberal Jews to keep trying new ways of currying favour in the eyes of the Islamic world.How many strategies have been tried? Too many to list in one short article. But a few noteworthy projects deserve a mention. In Israel, the Jews have tried to give away “land for peace”, and that has failed miserably time and time again. Egypt is a despotic regime, with the fanatic Muslim brotherhood gaining more political ground each passing day. It maintains a frigid and grudging “peace” with Israel and the “peace” with Jordan is only measurably more civil. Israel sends civil aid to disaster zones all over the world, performs open-heart surgeries on Arab babies, gives Arab Israeli citizens full rights under the law, and even treats Palestinian terrorists at Israeli hospitals, but it’s still not enough. Israel has Arab members of the Knesset, and despite the terrorist threat implicit in it, successive Israeli leaders continue to commit to the founding of a Palestinian state. But that’s still not enough for the Muslim world.
In the Jewish diaspora, and under the heavy influence of socialist and Marxist dogma, liberal Jews pour small fortunes into “inter-faith” causes, conferences and dialogues in the hopes of finding “greater understanding” with the Islamic world in general-and in particular with the Palestinians.
Dear fellow Jews, what is so hard to understand about “we hate your guts, and will continue to kill and maim you”? Just last week, an “inter-faith” Rabbi, the guest speaker at an ISNA (Islamic Society of North America) conference was shocked … shocked to hear that one of the guest imams felt that Jews deserved the Holocaust because they turned their backs against Allah. What is so hard to understand about that?
Jews continue to support the Liberal party in Canada, and the Democratic party in America, despite the obvious and undeniable evidence that their true friends are on the Christian, Zionist political right. Unfortunately, their commitment to liberalism trumps their commitment to their own people.
Here in Canada, the multi-cultural outreach by Jews to Muslim Canadians continues with the Canadian Jewish Congress funding such initiatives as scholarships for Somali Canadians. Where is the reciprocity in these activities? When was the last time you heard about the King Abdullah scholarship for Jews? Or the American Muslim scholarship fund for Jews? Have you ever been to a Jewish conference where a genocide or an individual death of a Muslim person was described, in theological terms, as being justifiable? Have you ever heard a Jew celebrate when a Muslim has been murdered? When is the last time a Jew gleefully beheaded an enemy, video taped it and uploaded it onto YouTube?
Jews: get this through your head once and for all. The Islamic world, under its current leadership, is just not into you.
The Jews in the diaspora have a past, a present but do not have a future! The smart ones will internalize this message and act now. The overwhelming majority won’t with all that implies! Bye Bye!
Comment by yamit82 — July 27, 2009 @ 8:23 pm
You’re 100% right Yamit… I watched the video you recomended and it made just so much sense… everyone should watch it!
http://www.israelnationalnews.com/TV/?act=one&id=3522
Comment by Jerusalem Posts — July 27, 2009 @ 8:26 pm
Jerusalem posts pls. distribute it to all Jews on your contact lists. It’s that important.
Comment by yamit82 — July 27, 2009 @ 8:29 pm
Great article.
Comment by Laura — July 27, 2009 @ 11:03 pm
Yamit you’ve been taken in by David Solomon’s soundbite about diaspora Jews having a past, present, but no future.
Many dynamic speakers employ such communicative devices with a phrase or a thought expressed in a certain dramatic way that on first being spoken, the listener believes the speaker has given them some irreducible pearl of wisdom or fundamental truth.
If the listener takes a moment to parse the words to find that fundamental truth, what they usually find is that the artful dramatic phrase or thought is very nice packaging that holds nothing for them.
That is the case with Solomon’s parting words.
Ask yourself, in what context and by what definitions is Solomon saying diaspora Jews have a past, present but no future?
Is he relating to the diaspora Jewish community as a nation? Surely not for diaspora Jews are communities within nations not their own, who have bound themselves together in other’s nations by their common religion, heritgage and history.
When he says diaspora Jews have no future, does he mean that diaspora Jews cannot survive as a unique community in other’s nations? If not, why not?
Why does he say only Jews in Israel have a future? A future to be and do what? Just how does simply moving to Israel give a diaspora Jew or Jewish family guaranteed passage to a future?
Other questions and observations come to mind, but you get the point.
On the point Solomon made however, that Jews today must re-connect with their past and learn from their theology, philosophy, ideology, history, culture and heritage in order to move forward to a future, which I am assuming means a future that sees the diaspora Jewish community carrying on, strong, vital and thriving within the context of their own Jewish uniqueness, I have no argument.
Assimilation and modernism are breaking the bonds between diaspora Jews with their Jewish roots and their connection to Israel, such that the Jewish world population is according to a number of experts already in decline. The world Jewish community was about 19 million before WWII. The Holocaust reduced that population by about one third to about 13 million.
The world Jewish community has not recovered, but have only held their numbers immediately after WWII. That is a frightening thought for those who care about such matters including whether Jews/Israel have a future. Even for some, if not many Israelis, who were born and are living their lives in Israel, assimilation and modernism are also breaking their ties with Judiasm, Jewish heritage and culture and with the world Jewish community.
I have endorsed more activist efforts by Jewish leaders and Rabbis, not just to reach out to those Jews still connected with their Jewish community, but even more importantly to those who are in the process of leaving or have already left it. So far those leaders I have written to over the years do not seem to be heeding my advice.
Comment by Bill Narvey — July 27, 2009 @ 11:14 pm
Cohen states the obvious uncomfortable truths that Dershowitz, Cotler and so many other national and local Jewish leaders just plain miss or do not want to see, for to see them they will have to deal with them.
Comment by Bill Narvey — July 27, 2009 @ 11:37 pm
I am an American born and raised a Jew, but not as “Jewish” as Yamit and a great deal more than Peskin, to I refer is not a Jew at all. I was raise as a boy in a very Jewish home with my siblings, taught by my father all that I wished to absorb. I am disappointed in myself to a degree that my children did not come up to my level and, in one case, to no level. Is it my fault? Yes. Had I been living in a Jewish environment, things might have been different. It is even more disappointing that my children are passing even less Jewishness to their children. It is here, at this point where there was a past, present but no future. I understand where Mr. Soloman was coming from and, if I could impart one bit of advice to those in similar circumstances, it is: become a Jew again, at what ever level you wish and teach your children so that your past can become their future.
Comment by Ed D — July 27, 2009 @ 11:48 pm
If one TRULY believes that nothing happens without God’s will, then one will understand the importance of modern genetic techniques which are continuously uncovering those who have “Jewish genes.” To say that this is irrelevant is to deny that there is a reason - a divine reason - for this knowledge to suddenly become available to the world.
If one does understand and accept this, then the number of potential Jews is enormous. In Spain alone, 20% of all males have Jewish genes going back several centuries. Thus the fulfillment of God’s promise to make our numbers greater than the number os stars in the sky (or words to that effect) may ironically (some believe) rely on modern science, another gift from God. How else to make that promise come fulfillment? It certainly won’t happen through increasing the Jewish birth-rate.
Time to reassess our unthinking acceptance of what I call the Ashkenazi Dogma. Time to question what is a Jew. If Abraham and his progeny stood out simply because they understood (I don’t like the word “believed”) that there is one God, then ultimately Judaism is about the One: God. All else - all intellectual scholarship - is merely vanity.
Comment by keelie — July 28, 2009 @ 1:28 am
Jewish Liberalism as the Jewish communal version of “BATTERED-CHILD SYNDROME”?
“…[T]he recurring propensity among segments of the Jewish population to take to heart the indictments of besiegers and persecutors, and to ascribe to themselves the power to change dramatically the attitudes of their enemies by self-reform, is in important respects a contravention of the religious tradition.
“For it shifts the focus of redemption from the rapport with God to the rapport with the Jews’ tormentors, from self-reform in conformity with religious-moral modes of behavior to self-reform in conformity with the indictments of the besiegers. If this propensity has been particularly marked among Jews, its being so is a product of the Jews’ particular, long history of oppression, slaughter and dislocation…”
[Kenneth Levin, MD, PhD, The Oslo Syndrome: Delusions of a People Under Siege (Smith & Kraus, Hanover, NH, 2005), p. xvi (intro.)]
Not always an “easy” read, but well worth the time & effort.
Comment by dweller — July 28, 2009 @ 2:07 am
dweller:
Translation please, enough of your intellectualizing. What we ought to say is until we do some serious killing we will continue to die by the inches, as we are doing today.
Comment by israel lives — July 28, 2009 @ 2:22 am
Narvey:
.
I have not been taken in either by Solomon or any other specific individual, dynamic thinker or otherwise. To understand that final soundbyte you must have A- Knowledge of Tanach especially the Prophets. B- a reasonable knowledge and understanding of Jewish History C- A degree of belief and faith that the revelation at Sinai did take place and that yjr Hebrew people became a nation with a Law or a guide for that people to live under and to show all of humanity how to live a moral and ethical way of life, and in doing so to bring the knowledge of the One and true G-d to all of mankind. This can only be accomplished according to Jewish thought in the Land that G-d chose. This is the Jewish concept of being a light unto the nations.
The Children of Herzl converted to Christianity, The Children and or grandchildren of almost all of the secular Zionists who were the founding fathers of the State of Israel are no longer living in Israel. NYC, LA, London and Paris had more appeal. This proves that an idea, philosophy, ideology not based on Torah Judaism cannot be transmitted more than a few generations at most. There can be only one reason for any Jew to remain Jewish and that is national purpose based on The Book of the Jews (Tanach). A Torah observant Jew cannot be a complete Jew in the exile, as a minority in an alien non Jewish materialistic culture. Even the Haredim have become so corrupted that they are a shell of what authentic Judaism is about.. “Next year in Jerusalem” rings very hollow and hypocritical. Every single major and most of the minor Prophets, prophesied the destruction of the Jewish commonwealths, the exile and the return and everything in between and what would happen to us in the end of history. Christians are big on this because they believe, even though they interpret incorrectly. The Muslims believe, only most of the Jews don’t believe today in their own revelation and prophetic texts.
Almost every Jew on the face of the planet has not lived in the country he now resides for more than 60-70 years on the average. The most secure periods for Jews in History ended always in Jewish tragedy. The Jews of Spain 700 years Germany about the same, thought that they would be perpetual residents and had assimilated so thoroughly into the cultures they lived in, they became more German the the Germans and more Spanish than the Spanish. Well we know how well that turned out.
When Solomon and I speak of Jews having no future it is just that. Do I think a major Pogrom against Jews will occur in Canada or even America? No at least not yet but in another two or three generation Jews for all practical purposes will have ceased to exist as a viable recognized Jewish entity. The G-d of Israel did not cause the liberation of Hebrew slaves from Egypt and then say Ok now your free go live in Toronto or even Borough Park
Most of the Jews refused Liberation from Egypt during the Exodus and disappeared from history, same with the Babylonian exile only five % returned. They had assimilated so thoroughly that most had gentile wives. Ezra made them all give up those spouses and were sent back to Babylon. We have been there before and done that before, there is in Jewish history nothing new under the sun.
Lets face some realities. All of the Jews from all of the Arab and Muslim countries have come home. that with other Jews who have come here over the past 100 years make up roughly half of all the worlds Jews. Growing about 3.5 % a year. A third got wiped out in Europe and the last third mostly in North America are disappearing so fast that even if they are not killed by the gentiles will be gone within 50 years. More Christians are converting to Judaism than Jews in America returning to their spiritual roots.
All signs point to the period we are living through today as the Messianic era.
.
Comment by yamit82 — July 28, 2009 @ 3:11 am
Narvey addendum to# 12
Deuteronomy 30:3-5
And the Lord your G-d shall Return you from your captivity, and have Compassion upon you; He shall Return and Gather you from among all the nations… And the Lord your G-d Will Bring you into the Land that your fathers inherited. You will acquire it, and He Will Make you even more prosperous and numerous than your fathers.
Isaiah 41:18-20
I Will Open up rivers upon the hilltops and springs in the midst of valleys; I Will Turn the desert into a pond of water and the parched land into sources of water. In the wilderness I Will Set cedar, acacia, myrtle, and pine trees; I Will Place in the desert box trees, firs, and cypresses together, so that they may see and know, consider, and understand together that the Hand of Hashem Has Done this, and the Holy One of Israel Created it.
Jeremiah 16:14-15
Therefore, behold, days are coming, Says the Lord, when it shall no longer be said, “As the Lord Lives Who Brought up the children of Israel from the land of egypt;” but “As the Lord Lives Who Brought up the children of Israel from the northern lands, and from all the lands into which He had driven them.” And I Will Return them to their Land, which I Gave to their forefathers.
Jeremiah 31:6-7
For thus Says G-d, “Shout with joy for Jacob, exult at the head of the nations; proclaim your praise and say: ‘O G-d, Deliver your people, the remnant of Israel!’ Behold, I Will Bring them back from northern lands, and Gather them from the ends of the world…”
Jeremiah 33:10-11
Thus Says G-d, “In this place–of which you say, ‘How desolate it is, without man or animal!’ in the cities of Judah, in the streets of Jerusalem that are now deserted, without man, without inhabitant, without animal–there shall yet be heard the sound of joy and the sound of gladness, the voice of the bridegroom and the voice of the bride, the sound of those who bring a thanks offering to the House of G-d, singing, ‘Give thanks to the Lord of Hosts, for the Lord Is Good; His Loving Kindness endures forever.’ For I Will Restore this country as of old,” Says G-d.
Ezekiel 11:17
Thus Says G-d: “I Will Gather you from the nations, and Assemble you from the lands where you have been scattered, and I Will Give you the Land of Israel.”
Ezekiel 36:8-11
As for you, O mountains of Israel, you shall shoot forth your branches and bear your fruit for My people Israel, for they are soon to come. For behold, I Am with you and I Shall turn to you; then you will be tilled and you will be sown. And I Will multiply man upon you, the entire House of Israel… Then I Will multiply man and animal upon you, and they shall increase and be fruitful. I shall Cause you to be inhabite
Comment by yamit82 — July 28, 2009 @ 3:40 am
Yamit is getting excited — he’s using bold-face.
Ed D., what do you want me to do? Hang my head and commiserate with you about your children? If you’re not proud of your own children, what can I do for you? I taught my childre to trust in the God of Israel, not in any religion; and they do. My wife and I have prayed all our lives that they would be lights of God’s good news to the world, and they are. I don’t know how any parent, of any religion, can have higher aspirations for their kids than this. But to expect them to become Jewish, or Catholic, or Moslem, or some other box of clones? What an unreasonable burden to place on anyone — and for what!
Whining, complaining, nah nah nah. God has preserved my life, and the lives of my Jewish and non-Jewish ancestors for thousands of years. On top of that, He’s revealed Himself to me and to them; to those who sought Him and those who didn’t. I’m not complaining; I’m thankful. I wish you were too.
Concerning Ms. Cohen’s article, she said,
That’s quite a mouthful. In rough outline, she is correct, though I wonder who she’s talking about when she speaks of a “Christian, Zionist political right.” I’ve lived in the United States for 63 years, and I have yet to find those people. I’ve always been Zionist, but I’ve seldom been political. John McCain is the only political candidate I’ve ever sent money to. I didn’t agree with Either Bush’s treatment of Israel; and as for Ronald Reagan, he engineered a coup d’etat to overthrow a good friend of mine — a man who loved God and loved the Bible, and had actually BEATEN the Communist insurgency in his country by genuinely befriending the people. While my friend was fighting Communists, another friend of mine was building a Christian community in a neighboring country — a country at war with Reagan-financed guerillas. My friend’s parishoners were drafted into the military in that country, and several died fighting the guerillas. When the Communist ruler was overthrown, my friend and his parishoners helped to rebuild the country. Does that make me or any of my friends left wing? right wing? I have many, many friends who have lost their jobs and can no longer afford health care. Am I no longer a friend of Zion, because I want to see them get proper health care? because I’m not enough a part of the “political right”?
It’s so easy to put people in boxes; and the contributors of Israpundit seem to be especially “gifted” in this packaging. But I warn you against packaging and labelling people who trust in God and want to serve him, no matter how misguided they are and no matter what they call themselves. They are God’s servants, calling themselves by His name. They are HIS, not yours. Do you have the right to speak disparagingly about them?
Assimilation — Yamit likes to use the word “diaspora” a lot, as though it has much bearing on anything. I notice that Jews in Israel are as prone to schisms and infighting as Jews in America. Aliyah didn’t magically change them. Those Jews in Israel, those chosen ones who’ve “ascended”: Are they really leading lives that much different from people anywhere else? Are they free of “Gay Pride” parades? No — Israel is becoming the homosexual capital of the world. And is the politics of Israeli Jews more pro-Zionist than that of Americans? No — in fact, poll after poll shows more Americans support Zionist values than Israelis, with the ironic twist that in America it’s the CHRISTIANS who generally support Israel and the Jews who oppose it!
Jews are so afraid of being assimilated by Christian proselytizing. Tell me — How many Jews have actually become Christians in the US? I see much more evidence of Jews NOT becoming Christians, but becoming Christian-hating New Agers. They haven’t assimilated; but the Christians that Jewish parents such as Ed D. are so afraid their children will become, those Christians support Israel and their children don’t! You can’t charge that one up to “assimilation”! Indeed, assimilation has taken place — but it seems to be happening the other way around. I was raised as a boy in a country with strong Biblical values; but I’ve seen these New Agers — with Jews in the vanguard — systematically corrupting my country and destroying those values. Assimilation is not the enemy of Jews, as so many here seem to think, bu the enemy of Christians.
With this in mind, I take articles like Cohen’s with a grain of salt. Yes, American and Canadian Jews are wholeheartedly supporting the enemies of their people. But what good does it do to complain about this, when the actual FRIENDS of Israel are treated by the Zionists as their enemies? You hate the Christians on the one hand, and hate American Jews on the other; and after you’ve finished dismissing us, you criticize your fellow Jews in Israel — beginning with the very leaders you elected!
I don’t see much hope for these people; except that they trust in the God of Israel — as I do. May His name be blessed!
Comment by BlandOatmeal — July 28, 2009 @ 1:50 pm
Oatmeal
For the record, I and many people like me value the support we get from the Christian Zionists. They are our best supporters. That is not to say that I will accept their proselytizing. I won’t Friends should not undermine you. That is what missionizing does. Many Evangelicals understand this and agree to limits on their proselytizing. They all should. But that is another debate and not for these pages. I welcome their support and do not believe it has strings attached.
Comment by Ted Belman — July 28, 2009 @ 2:42 pm
Ted,
I don’t think you’re being genuine. I’ve seen contributor after contributor here laying into Christians as though they were the scum of the earth — NOT because of proselytizing, but simply because they are not Jewish. I, and my family and countrymen, have been prime targets of this sort of abuse, having been called every vile thing one can imagine. As for proselytizing, I have already stated my case: You have NOTHING to fear from proselytizing of any sort, yet you and others here consistently attack it. If Jews in America were falling victim to proselytizing by Evangelical Christians, they would by now have become SUPPORTERS of Zion instead of enemies; but in fact, they have NOT fallen victim to any such thing: They have steadfastly opposed Christianity and the Bible of the Christians, and are busy at work tearing down the Biblical foundadions of my country. When Obama got elected, SOME Jews were disappointed; but American Christians have had their hearts sink. Do you think we rejoice, when Jewish lawyers lobby successfully to have a long-standing cross removed from a veteran’s memorial? Do you think we rejoice, when the same sort of people try to have the gravemarkers of our veteran relatives removed and replaced with “generic” markers? Tell me if I’m imagining things, if the ACLU isn’t a nestegg of Jewish lawyers. These are the people who have removed the Ten Comnmandments, and other Christian symbols, from our courtrooms and classrooms. These people have NOT been lured into apostasy by Evangelical missionaries. No, you don’t attack Christians because of their proselytizing, but because you hate them, plain and simple.
Comment by BlandOatmeal — July 28, 2009 @ 3:08 pm
.
Ted rightfully said. I know at times my intentions have been in question and I shrug if off as just misgivings of outsiders.
I grew up with Jewish friends and neighbors and never had a reason not to love them. I was never taught to convert Jews and would never consider it. I believe all Jews should embrace their faith such as Yamit.
I believe G-d led the Jewish people back to the Holy Land with G-d given rights to the territory. I resent anyone or any nation who interfers with this sovereign Jewish Nation. The Jewish communities should continue to grow withing anyone dictating how, when or where.
No strings attached.
Comment by rongrand — July 28, 2009 @ 3:11 pm
Yamit, If what you say is right, then two possibilities exist about D. Solomon.
1. David Solomon’s audience are biblical and Tanach scholars would would understand his point. In such case why bother telling them something they already know, unless it was in dramatic fashion to bring what they knew to the forefront of their minds.
2. Most or all of his audience including me as part of the youtube audience are not biblical/Tanach scholars. Given that, Solomon is a pompous peacock of a teacher, for he leaves his audience with an artful dramatic statement that his listeners will kvel over as if those artful dramatic words held something of value, but in truth held nothing for them.
Yamit, I really have no opinion of Solomon other then that he appears very learned. I only took some issue with his parting words.
I do think we share the view that diaspora Jews and indeed Israeli Jews who have fallen away from their Judaism need to be reminded that while being Jewish only requires you to be born of a Jewish mother, to better ensure the longterm survival of Judaism as a living religion and the world Jewish community as unique and living it probably would help if they all learned and got more in touch with their Jewish roots.
That said, I do not think to accomplish that Jews need to be nearly as learned as people such as yourself. Knowing something more of their Jewish heritage, especially the important points of religion and history and their significance would certainly help.
Comment by Bill Narvey — July 28, 2009 @ 3:37 pm
Oatmeal:
Would you allow a scorpion to crawl up your bosom? That is the kind of thinking that will eventually destroy the Jewish people.The Christ. evang. have their own agenda and it is NOT TO HELP the Jews. It is rather to ensure that we are absorbed by them. Let me repeat the message, we don’t have friends. We must reject the goyim-for the fact is the goyim have done their utmost to destroy us. Beware the moderates amongst us who have no incite as to who are real enemies are.
Comment by israel lives — July 28, 2009 @ 4:14 pm
Israel Lives
We disagree. But let’s not argue about it. Just drop it.
Comment by Ted Belman — July 28, 2009 @ 5:28 pm
Bland you are a puzzle.
Though you have not stated your religious background, it seems that background is Christian.
That you taught your children to only believe in God, but no religion in particular was your own personal choice. It may work for you in your own religious world view. It does not work for the majority of mankind who do feel some connection with their religious roots and who try to instill that same sense in their children.
You are given to broad generalizations derived from your own world view and then, without giving any regard to the way the majority of the world thinks, comment as if your personal world view applies to the rest of the world.
It doesn’t.
Thoughout the Christian and Jewish world, assimilation is taking its toll. There are 2.6 billion Christians or people of Christian background. There are only 13 million Jews. It should be obvious that if Christendom were to lose say 50 million adherents through conversion to another religion or atheism, that would have little impact on the strength that Christian numbers give to Christianity in terms of long term survival as a religiously identified group. Jews who are concerned about the long term survival and existence of Judaism and a unique Jewish community because of their numbers, feel even the loss of a few Jews endangers the survival of Judaism and the Jewish community.
You seem not to appreciate this fact.
You say:
I am glad that you are a Zionist. That in all your years you have not found politically right Christian Zionists, is probably because you have not looked for them.
As regards those Christians who are both Christian Zionists and missionaries who believe it their religious duty to prosletyze and turn Jews from Judaism to Christianity now and not wait for the end of days, they comprise a smaller minority of Christian evangelicals. They would not seek you out, but do seek out Jews, so Jewish experience with Christian missionizing is not your experience.
It is Christian missionaries who seek out Jews for conversion who raise concerns in the Jewish community that cares about being and remaining Jews. Speaking out against these Christians, not for all they believe in, but only as regards their missionary beliefs and activities does not make any Jew anti-Christian.
You say you do not want your children to grow up pidgeonholed in some Jewish, Catholic or Moslem box, but to only to believe in God is as I said your personal choice. Your aversion to pidgeonholing however ends there for you have now generalized to say:
Your generalization seeks to pidgeonhole most contributors to Israpundit. That simply does not accord with reality, so in this case even your generalization is untrue.
You overstate things in saying that
The essential point I believe you were intending to make is that some Jewish leaders are supporting Pres. Obama’s positions and policies as being in Israel’s best interests and that is very worrisome to Israel, to that sector of the Jewish community and to some sectors of the Christian community who can be conveniently labelled Christian Zionists with whose views you are aligned with that sees Israel’s interests as being compromised by Pres. Obama’s views, policies and actions.
In conclusion what puzzles me about you Bland is that the meaning I think you wish to convey is compromised in a number of ways, some of which I have referred to in this comment.
I think you are quite capable of being more precise in expressing your views and I hope you keep that in mind.
Comment by Bill Narvey — July 28, 2009 @ 5:47 pm
Narvey food for thought Mix
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MuDUmQd4Id4&feature=channel_page
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H73OaI3D0pk
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MCbBRipZTv0&feature=channel_page
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5hkworkmCw0&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-e_i7wDFlBA&NR=1
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7bgJywQRRb4&feature=channel_page
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PpCtmtzGl_I&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/profile?user=JINSIDER&view=videos&query=david+solomon
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eWKOafRw9L0&NR=1
Comment by yamit82 — July 28, 2009 @ 6:42 pm
Oatmeal, there may be some who denigrate the work Christian Zionists are doing, but I support them in their endeavours.
After speaking to some of them, their original backgrounds were Jewish, BEFORE their forced conversions in the middle ages in Europe!
Comment by Jerusalem Posts — July 28, 2009 @ 8:08 pm
Re post 13:
The faith of Jewish liberals is not Judaism.
The faith of Jewish liberals is Liberalism.
That’s why so many of them are its high priests.
The Jewish People was [quite literally] called into being, to be mamlekhet cohanim: “a kingdom of priests.”
But to acknowledge a Supreme Being is to recognize that one is ultimately accountable to such a One. That’s intolerably offensive to the egotist, so he chucks it as “unenlightened.”
Still, if faith in God is not acceptable, we will invent an ersatz religion, a substitute for the real article — a “religion of mankind” — to take its place; to take the edge off of that betrayal and abandonment.
And since the Jew was made to be a priest, he becomes a ‘priest’ of that ersatz faith, Liberalism.
Comment by dweller — July 29, 2009 @ 3:48 am
Re post 10:
Dweller’s FIRST LAW OF POLITICAL TROUBLESHOOTING:
“Seventy percent of what passes for politics is in fact pathology seeking a political outlet; i.e., pathology masquerading as politics. In some circles, more than seventy.”
Comment by dweller — July 29, 2009 @ 4:50 am
What do you mean by WE Kimosabe? Four times in one sentence you use we. In the context of this sentence it implies certain things and I get the distinct impression you are not here among us, therefore your use of we applies to us here and not you there.
Comment by yamit82 — July 29, 2009 @ 11:02 am
re 25. What are you-some sort of forensic proofreader?
Creep.
Comment by israel lives — July 29, 2009 @ 12:51 pm
.
That may or may not be a statement of fact but it doesn’t answer my questions, as usual!
Comment by yamit82 — July 29, 2009 @ 9:06 pm
Yamit:
STOP PHISHING. MY IDENTITY IS NONE OF YOUR F—K–G BUSINESS. WHAT DO YOU WANT, MY NAME ADDRESS,SOCIAL
SECURITY NUMBER AND MARITAL STATUS?. ARE YOU FROM THE FBI, HOMELAND SECURITY? I USE A FAKE NAME TO PROTECT
MY IDENTITY AS OBVIOUSLY YOU DO. STOP BEING A TOTAL PR–CK. I DON’T ASK YOU TO AGREE WITH ME AND IT IS
COMPLETELY YOUR CHOICE TO PROVIDE COUNTERING ARGUMENTS OR NOT. BUT STOP THIS INFERNAL PROBING.I FIND YOU
TO BE VERY EASY TO DISLIKE, AND YOU MIGHT THINK THE SAME OF ME-BUT WHO CARES-WE ARE NOT DATING OR ABOUT TO
GET MARRIED (HEAVEN FORBID). WHY DON’T WE JUST KEEP TO THE TOPICS AT HAND AND FORGET ISRAPUNDIT POLITICS,
PESKIN, AND ALL THAT GARBAGE.I KNOW I SHOULD NOT SAY THIS BUT I CANNOT UNDERSTAND HOW A SCHM–CK LIKE YOU
GOT SO POPULAR AROUND THESE PARTS. NOW PLEASE DO NOT GO AROUND CLONING YOURSELF. ONE YAMIT82 IS MORE THAN
ENOUGH, THANK YOU.
Comment by israel lives — July 29, 2009 @ 9:56 pm
post 28. Why so restrained? It would not have done any harm if you filled in the blank lines.
Comment by chucky — July 29, 2009 @ 10:12 pm
It is perfectly obvious by your comments here that you are distraught. In #25 I asked what you meant by using We and not I or You. Not to ascertain your name or SS # or anything like that but in terms of your positions on the main topics we discuss here. Some opinions posted have merit others not( including my own) but knowing something of the commenter helps us to color and place in more objective context those comments you and we make. No law requires it and many just comment without we knowing much about them and their comments stand as is. Your comments more than most raise more questions about the commenter than the Shit you spew instead of reasoned opinion and discourse.
Your use of WE presupposes commonality with others here who comment both frequently and infrequently but most of us till now have more commonality than difference so We could apply to most of us. With you I have a problem placing you in our We category But that’s just my opinion.
You still haven’t addressed direct questions to you and the above histrionics are no substitute for answers to questions within and on topic, based on your own comments.
Comment by yamit82 — July 30, 2009 @ 12:22 am
Yamit: This is not a social network. My personality or intentions have no relevance here. If you are interested in a clubby friendly site where you may banter and chat, try facebook. The purpose of Israpundit is an exchange of ideas, discussion and arguments. not to make friends. I try to think of you as a series of 1’s and o’s -purely a digital exchange. I don’t know you and you don’t me. Our egos don’t count. we argue, debate purely on the basis of the ideas presented, not who we are. I might be a muslim, communist,fascist or chasid.It does not matter. Name calling is useless since we really have no idea who the other party is.No one should be offended by what is written. I might be Peskin,or a serial killer or a saint. It simply does not matter. There should not be any expulsions or bannings since by doing so the director of the site admits that the expelled party has presented arguments that are beyond rebuttal. And since nicknames are quite acceptable the expellee can easily resurface under another name.And that would be perfectly acceptable on the basis of anonymous communication.Here there is no question of misrepresentation or fraud-no money is being exchanged, no promises of marriage or any commercial transactions. It is surprising to me that Belman has not considered what a political blog is all about.
Understand that I have the option of responding or not. There is no obligation to reply if I feel the question does not merit a response. And that would apply if the situation was reversed, and I was doing the questioning.
Now can we refrain from playing the silly game of figuring out if Israel lives is really peskin in desguise.
Comment by israel lives — July 30, 2009 @ 1:43 am
what’s up with this david solomon guy, anyway? i watched about 5 minutes and couldn’t stand him. he has the nerve to try to limit the Creator..by saying ‘even the Creator of the Universe, to create a world..” what a ridiculous ego, thinking that he can speak like that. but, unfortunately, that program on arutz, live from jerusalem, is so flawed and inaccurate.
the answer is torah. and the jews in exile will return.
instead of using scare tactics, our job is to help our brothers and sisters return to torah.
and that goes for the jews who post on this site as well. i, personally, apologize for any harsh words i’ve said; but sometimes the posts are so blatantly destructive it’s hard to not do so.
again: the answer is torah. ted,bill, some rabbinical posts would be a good idea, also.
Comment by bugsy — July 30, 2009 @ 1:43 am
Bugsy the Topic you refer to was on Jewish philosophy and he was explaining the principles behind some of the greatest Jewish philosophers who have had a strong if not determinant influence on Jewish thought throughout our history from Philo to the Present. The Rambam during his own lifetime and for a generation or two after him was roundly rejected by most Jewish Orthodoxy of the age. They even burned his writings and some even invoked CHEREM against him. What makes Solomon somewhat unique to my mind is that he is a scholar of Tanach, Kabbalah,Jewish History and Jewish Philosophy. He is a practicing Torah Observant Jew who Lives in the Old city of Jerusalem.
the answer is torah. and the Jews in exile will return.
I agree. So where are You? Where are your sooo observant Rabbis? The mitzvah to live in the land of Israel is equal to all the 613 mitzvot together,and is more important than Shabbat or Yom Kippur. The Jews of Europe were warned, failed to heed and were eliminated. The Jews of the west have the example of those Jews who refused to heed the warnings and perished. I do not enjoy hearing righteous emanations from those who live lives of Hillul Hashem and are liked to idol worshippers by chazal as if they had no G-d.
It is forbidden at all times to leave Eretz Yisrael for the Diaspora except: to study Torah; to marry; or to save [one's property] from the gentiles [lit. the worshippers of the stars and signs]. [After accomplishing these ends,] one must return to Eretz Yisrael.
Mishne Torah, Sefer Shoftim, The Laws of Kings and Their Wars, Chapter 5, Halakha 9.
Mishne Torah, Sefer Shoftim, The Laws of Kings and Their Wars, Chapter 5, Halakha 11.
There is no comparison between [the merit of] a person who lives in Eretz Yisrael and one brought there after death [for burial]. Nevertheless, great Sages would bring their dead there. Take an example from our Fathers, Ya’akov and Yosef, the righteous.
Bugsy Here is the Bomb!
Comment by yamit82 — July 30, 2009 @ 9:37 am