Resolving the Cognitive Dissonance of Islam
By D.L. Adams, The American Thinker
The negative spiritual and intellectual consequence of believing two mutually exclusive concepts is “cognitive dissonance.” Our interaction as a society with Islam is a direct cause of “cognitive dissonance” for us as individuals and as a culture.
Resolution of the contradiction requires the rejection of one of the concepts as false. If we continue to ignore our cognitive dissonance about Islam the consequences are dire: we will lose our civilization.
Islam is much more than a religion; it is a complete civilization that includes politics (caliphate), jurisprudence (Sharia law), war (jihad), and a deliberately misleading “religion of peace.” The doctrine of Islam is found in three books: Koran (the literal word of Allah as “revealed” to Mohammed), Sira (Mohammad’s biography), and Hadith (stories about and sayings of Mohammed by contemporaries). The definitive text of Sharia law is “Reliance of the Traveller.” Allah and Mohammed are to be obeyed, not questioned. “Islam” means “submission;” a Muslim is “one who submits.” “Islam” does not mean “peace.”
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Say: Obey Allah and the Apostle; but if they turn back, then surely Allah does not love the unbelievers. (Koran,3:32)
O you who believe! Obey Allah and His Apostle and do not turn back from Him while you hear. (Koran, 8:20)
O you who believe! fight those of the unbelievers who are near to you and let them find in you hardness; and know that Allah is with those who guard (against evil). (Koran, 9:123)
The purpose of the Islamic doctrine is the destruction of all cultures that are not Islamic and expansion of Islam until the entire world is under Islamic rule and Sharia law.
Interview with David Bedein Peres and friends: behind and supporting: J Street.
http://www.israelnationalnews.com/Radio/Player.htm#0#1575
Why Are Israeli Arabs Happy in Israel?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SJojtxclkig
Arab World’s View of George W. Bush
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IIHigT7l8mc&feature=related
Comment by yamit82 — November 6, 2009 @ 9:22 pm
Ted you should listen to the Bedein Interview also Narvey.
Interview with David Bedein Peres and friends: behind and supporting: J Street.
http://www.israelnationalnews.com/Radio/Player.htm#0#1575
Comment by yamit82 — November 6, 2009 @ 9:31 pm
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What does moderate Muslim mean? Adjectives such as moderate or radical are never used to describe people of other faiths. In describing Muslims, why is the adjective “peaceful” not used?
The phrase moderate Muslim has been used to describe Mahmood Abbas, yet Abbas has not only tolerated, but promoted antisemitism within all levels of Palestinian society and has not only tolerated, but facilitated Jihadist Jew hating elements such as the al Aqsa Martyr’s Brigade which is considered a terrorist faction of Abbas’ Fatah party.
Calling Muslims such as Abbas a moderate, renders that adjective practically meaningless.
Almost invariably when a Muslim Jihadist attacks America or Americans, the voices most heard from the so called “vast majority” of Muslims characterized as moderate is the sounds of silence. If there is a condemnation, that often is quickly followed by some excuse tending to suggest that in spite of the unquestionably evil crimes of Islamists, they might have some justification for grievances bound up in some alleged sin committed by a Western nation or a concern raised that such Islamist terrorist attack not cause a wave of anti-Muslim fervor or Islamophobia or both.
On the word “islamophobia”, it should be wiped out of our lexicon and should not be tolerated from any mouth.
Phobias denote irrational fears. There is absolutely nothing irrational with fear, not of all Muslims of course, but of the Islamists who have committed and are committing the vast majority of terrorist attacks, not just against non-Muslims, but Muslims as well, all in the name of Islam.
There have been so many instances where seemingly friendly, tolerant, law abiding and peaceful Muslims in America, Canada, Britain and the EU suddenly reveal the double life they have been leading either when they cast off their sheep’s clothing as they commit some heinous terrorist act or their true Islamist natures are revealed when they are found to have been secretly supporting Muslim/Islamist hate filled terrorism and propaganda, financially or otherwise.
These closet Jihadists often live amongst a peaceful Muslim community, evincing all signs that they are like the rest of their peaceful community. When they then reveal their true natures in the blood of their victims, their fellow community members say they are as surprised as anyone.
That claimed surprise however might not always be the case. Should one take the word of anyone just on their say so on something as significant as claiming they had no forewarning whatsoever about a Muslim’s jihadist beliefs? People often reveal clues to their true identities and natures.
Non-Muslims however are not the only ones fearful and intimidated by Islamists. So too are many peaceful Muslims who fear lethal or harmful consequences to them should they blow an Islamist’s cover or even boldly and unequivocally speak out against Islamism.
There are a relatively few number of Muslims and non-Muslims who have unequivocally spoken out against Islamism. Those who have not yet been murdered or maimed by some revenge seeking hate filled Islamist, have to live in hiding, under 24 hour protection or both.
In light of these real fears, the troublesome questions for non-Muslims and even the majority of peaceful Muslims, is first, which Muslims can be trusted to be truly the peaceful, tolerant and law abiding Muslims they appear to be and what can and must non-Muslims and peaceful Muslims do to rid the world of the lethal scourge of Islamism?
It is no answer to the first question to say that out of an abundance of caution, non-Muslims should suspect every Muslim of being an actual or potential Islamist and be on guard accordingly.
Such kind of suspicion of all Muslims, will quickly descend into racism and the majority of truly innocent Muslims who are against Islamism or who themselves live peaceful and law abiding lives and have no Islamist views and do not give any support to Islamism, will suffer.
That is not right or acceptable in our Western civilization.
Besides, if all non-Muslims adopted such a racist attitude, Muslims who are against Islamists not only will not be willing to join non-Muslims in that effort, but many could well be driven into the arms of the Islamists.
The imperative is however that both non-Muslims and Muslims must find a way to deal with ridding the world of Islamists that in different ways is an existential threat to both.
How Western non-Muslims and indeed the peaceful law abiding majority of Western Muslims deal with this issue is, needless to say, complex. It seems obvious however that it is incumbent on both to begin to deal with this potentially harmful and lethal problem and work towards finding acceptable solutions, however imperfect those solutions might be.
A good place to start would be for our Western leaders to begin to speak truths based on evidence and not wishful thinking or thinking clouded and obscured by political correctness.
Citing statistics to suggest a majority of Muslims being on one side of the other, is utter nonsense. There has been no study yet done to give any reliable indication as to whether the Islamists constitute a majority or not. As regards which Muslims qualify for the description, Islamist one must include not only the heirarchy of the terrorist army from generals to foot soldiers, but must include also all those and there are a very great many, who support Islamists financially or otherwise in varying degrees.
Western leaders must no longer mouth bromides and platitudes, like Islam is a religion of peace, that Islam has been hi-jacked by a small handful of radicals or that the vast majority of the world’s Muslims are peaceful, hard working, law abiding and as tolerant of non-Muslims as non-Muslims have been tolerant of Muslims.
Over the last 40 years or so, we have come to know that Islamists number far more then just a relative few. Estimates are as high as 20% of the world’s 1.5 billion Muslim population or 300 million.
Supplementing those estimates are the numerous reports that not just anti-semitism, but anti-Westernism is rampant throughout the Middle East and many parts of the Muslim world.
Coupled with those reports are various reports that a great many Muslim clergy and many Muslim leaders have been preaching, teaching and promoting hatreds against non-Muslims, the beliefs that Muslims are superior to non-Muslims in all respects and that Muslims have a solemn duty to engage in Jihad to convert, kill or subjugate all non-Muslims so that Islam reigns supreme in the world.
Islamists openly base their hate filled beliefs for non-Muslims and their beliefs in the inferiority of non-Muslims, on the literal words of Islam’s foundational writings. They quote the literal passages from their Koran, Sira or Hadith to justify what to non-Muslims are completely evil and heinous thoughts and deeds.
That is more then just a little proof that Islam as a religion has within it, various tenets, edits and beliefs that inspire many of its adherents to be hate filled Islamist supremacists who see non-Muslims through their intractably hate filled eyes as inferior and only worthy of death, conversion or subjugation.
These Islamists inspired by Islam believe it is their primary purpose in life to wage war against the inferior non-Muslims until Islam dominates the world and that there is no greater honor in Islam then to be killed as a martyr in that cause which then opens the door to heaven for them to partake for all eternity of all the joyous wonders heaven has to offer, including having for their pleasure, the reputed 72 beautiful and eternally virginal virgins.
Such an Islamist view, understanding, belief in and practice of Islam apart from being antithetical to our Western Judeo-Christian culture and civilization, is a consummate racist creed, if not the worst of the racist creeds in the world.
Our leaders in all sectors of society had better begin speaking these truths and forsake the disingenuous all encompassing platitudes, such as Islam is a religion of peace. For many Muslims, Islam is just that and while it is important that non-Muslims say that, they along with peaceful Muslims must not hesitate to also say that for many other Muslims, Islam is a supremacist religion of hate and war against non-Muslims and as such, it must be eliminated.
It will take courage and political will for Western democratic leaders to not only speak honestly in this regard, but to also develop strategies and tactics to more vigorously find, deal with and eliminate Islamists both within and outside our Western nations as well as protect us all, non-Muslim and Muslim alike from Islamists.
As earlier stated, while the task of finding a way for non-Muslims and peaceful Muslims to get over their fears of Islamists and join together in helping to find and root out Islamists will be very difficult, it is nonetheless a task much worth pursuing.
Comment by Bill Narvey — November 6, 2009 @ 11:38 pm
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Bill, you are a perfect example of ‘cognitive dissonance’. You struggle with the myth of ‘good’ muslims and ‘bad’ muslims. You want to divide the practitioners of islam as those that want to live in peace and those that do not.
You want those of us from civilized countries to give the muslims the benefit of the doubt and to not brand all of them for the jihadist acts of a few. You want our politicians to separate the facts of islam from the fiction, while you, yourself, cannot. You want us to separate out the muslims that do not take part in jihad versus the ones that do. You want us to condemn those few ‘bad apples’ from the great majority of the ‘peace loving good apples’. You want us to condemn the imams that preach evil in the mosques, yet give a pass to those that go willingly to hear these imams. Yet in the next breath, I am sure that you are among those that will not give President Obama a pass for sitting at the feet of Jeremiah Wright for twenty long years, listening to his ‘God damn America’ message.
Here are the facts regarding islam that cannot be ignored. The koran tells all of its followers to kill the infidel. No exceptions. No jihadist act has been committed that did not have justification in the koran. All evil done by the muslims, since its creation, has been at the behest of allah. All muslims want to impose islam and shariah law on all countries. The proof of this is in the fact that as soon as the muslim population, in any country, raises to 10%, the issue of shariah is raised and seriously pursued. They rigorously undermine the law of any country they reside in. They will not assimilate. Further proof is that all muslim countries have the koran and some form of shariah law in their constitutions, yet they are horrified that Israel wants to be recognized as a Jewish country. Their countries are governed by islamic law, but they loudly protest when Israel want to use Jewish law and say ‘they have no right’. They define the word hypocrite.
The enormity of basing their law on the koran becomes clear. The koran is filled with instructions about what is acceptable to promote islam. The bottom line is that any and all acts and actions are acceptable, as long as islam and allah is glorified, from deceit to lies to outright violence. Yet knowing that deceit is one of their best tools, you want us to give them the benefit of the doubt. You want us to believe that the people that have not committed any acts of jihad are, instead, peaceful muslims. Let me ask you a question, ‘Where so all these jihadists come from?’ Christian families? Buddhists families? Hindu families? Jewish families? You know the answer is muslim families. Many want to promote the idea that these jihadists are made in a vacuum, some disgruntled kids, but the truth is that they are raised in devout muslims families.
The painful fact is that all muslims are evil because they follow a book that preaches evil. This book appeals to the evil that tempts all of us, yet we are taught from the cradle to resist and overcome it. The muslims are taught to embrace it. We would never put our children as risk, they do. We would never deliberately kill innocents, be they man, woman or child. They think there are no innocents, all should be proud to die in the name of allah. We protect our womenfolk, they continually think up ways to humiliate theirs. We are proud of our countries, they have no allegiance to any country. We think anyone dying to protect our country is a hero, they think a suicide bomber killing thousands of noncombatants is a hero.
There is simply no reconciling the two schools of thought. It is good versus evil, us versus them. To try and separate the muslims that are not actively trying to kill us from the one that are is pure foolishness. To try and divide the muslims that are terrorists from the one that either actively supporting them or not condemning them is pure idiocy. When is that last time you heard of a ‘peaceful’ muslim thwarting a terrorist plot? It does not happen, yet these people are as aware of what is going on in their communities are we are aware of what is going on in ours.
Those of us that were raised on values that think life is sacred and that living in peace with our neighbors is a worthy cause can hardly fathom a group that does not cherish those same ideals. We continually want to make the muslim ‘just like us’. We insist that all peoples, regardless of religion, want to be happy, raised families and retire with a good life behind us. We go to some lengths to leave a legacy of good deeds, a good reputation and good character. We want life for the next generations to be as good or better than ours. We cannot fathom a mind-set that is content to live as our ancestors did 500 years ago. We cannot imagine a society, where freedom of choice is not paramount. If we see evil in our society, we do our best to eradicate it so that our children will not have to. We see the criminal element in our society as something that needs to be stopped, not supported. We have a hard time accepting that fact that the deafening silence coming out of the muslim communities is silent support, not silent condemnation.
The sad fact is that the only good muslim is an ex-muslim. The feel-good picture of a devout muslim, going to the mosque, praying five times a day to allah, that only wants to pursue a peaceful life and raise his family, is a myth. Every muslim in the world pays a special tithe that supports the jihadists and their families. Families of suicide bombers never have to work again, because their ‘peaceful’ brethren support them and call them martyrs and heroes. Mothers and fathers raise their children to believe that the koran is to be followed, no matter what.
The sooner we wrap our minds around these painful facts the better. Rather than try and separation the muslims within islam, we need to condemn islam as a whole. We need to encourage muslims to leave islam, not encourage the west to be fair minded. We need to encourage people to read the koran to see what all the fuss is about. We need to educate the public, so that those isolated stories about some guy running down his daughter with his car is labeled an honor killing, not just some random act of violence. We need to pass around burkas and encourage women to wear them to that they can see what a horrid garment it is, instead of calling it part of an honorable culture. We need to stop letting islam have the same status of real religion. We need to stop allowing the cult of islam to have the same privileges and protections as real religion. We need to stop allowing ourselves to be deceived into thinking that we are all praying to the same God. We need to stop politicians such as President Obama from saying things like, ‘ the contributions of the muslims are too numerous to mention.’ Or that the muslims have the same goals as us. And last of all, we need to stop trying to separate out the good from the bad in a cult that preaches what most of us find reprehensible. Islamists are muslims and muslims practice islam. There is no separating the two.
Comment by SarahSue — November 7, 2009 @ 9:27 am
I avoid the pitfall that Bill falls into when he attempts to be fair to peaceful Muslims, by focusing my attack on the religion itself.
Rudi Jasser and others who speak for such peaceful Muslims argue that Muslims must be democrats first and Muslims second. In other words the values that our democracy holds high that are in conflict with the values of the Koran must be embraced in place of the Koranic values. One could argue that to the extend such Muslims accepted this, they would be apostates.
In other words, a “peaceful Muslim” is an oxy-moron.
One prominant anti-Islamist in Europe suggested that for Islam to be acceptable to the west, it must drop the bad or evil parts of the Koran. Those parts have to do with conquering the world but also have to do with Sharia law that contradicts our values. Fat chance.
Comment by Ted Belman — November 7, 2009 @ 11:43 am
Well said SarahSue: Narvey can’t shake his Liberalism even in the face of incontrovertible facts, and enough empirical evidence as to build not only a solid house but a whole walled city. The circumstantial evidence is even more conclusive and devastating to his positions. But when pinned down his disclaimer is always but I agree or mostly agree with your premises but …….!
No problem with that from me but then why do you protect and support Christianity? I and others can make a case that Christianity is as threatening if not more so than Islam to Judaism and subsequently Israel? Notice I say Christianity and not Christians!
What does an expert have to say re: moderate and militant or radical Islam:
“There is No Radical or Moderate Islam, Only Islam”
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=68Yh6YAjeYg&feature=related
Arab World’s View of George W. Bush
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PiQ9gWwV_DQ&feature=related
Dr. Mordechai Kedar of Bar-Ilan University Talk about Arab Terror - Part 1
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_sh4dyStS_4&feature=related
K A H A N E
The magazine of the authentic Jewish Idea
May-June 1989 Iyar-Sivan 5749
Israel-There Are No Moderates (excerpts)
“Moderates.” “Moderates.” There are no Arab moderates. There are only clever Arabs and stupid ones. The stupid ones say exactly what they mean: eliminate Israel. The clever ones (and more and more are becoming so) mean exactly the same thing but they are clever. After defeats in four wars and numerous clashes they have learned the secret: say nice, moderate things to guilt-ridden Jews, and they will love you.
There are no Arab moderates. And one salutes in awe the ability of Arafat/Abbas [today it is Abbas} the arch-murderer, to persuade the Jews of lemmingism of his “change of heart,” of his “moderation.” He must surely be a candidate for the Nobel Prize for not laughing, for not rolling on the floor in hysteria.
He has renounced “terrorism?” Of course, but he firmly maintains that to attack the Zionists who “occupy his country” is not terrorism, but rather a war of national liberation.
The great Rebbe of Kutzk once said: “It is a sin to deceive one’s neighbor. It is a crime to deceive oneself.”
Comment by yamit82 — November 7, 2009 @ 1:08 pm
Sarahsue-Ted, Where do your views take you? To Yamit as well whose post I noted only after posting the following.
Both your analyses and that of D.L Adams, the author of the lead article, begin with certain realities of various tenets of Islam that are an anathema to Western Judeo-Christian beliefs, perspectives and values. From there you depart realities, by denying others and engage in what amounts to wishful thinking.
My views accord more closely with those of Geert Wilders and those of activists such as B. Gabrielle and A. H. Ali. All of them speak to what Islam is, but fall short of condemning all Muslims as being Islamists, advocating that we non-Muslims engage in a race war against all Muslims or that we must become fully engaged in a clash of civilizations with the objective of destroying Islam.
Islam is an entire societal construct. All aspects of Islam are subordinate to and take their legitimacy from the over riding religious aspect of Islam.
World leaders and many pundits have used the adjectives radical, moderate and a few peaceful to describe Islam or Muslims. Those adjectives however do not characterize Islam, for Islam simply is what it is.
These adjectives characterize the level of faith and observance of the literal tenets and beliefs of Islam set out in the foundational writings of Islam. That is the point Wilders and others whose views appear on Israpundit have made to the virtual unanimous approval of Israpundit contributors.
That is the point I have made, save that I find the adjective moderate as being virtually devoid of meaning.
Wilders speeches and articles that speak to what is with Islam, Muslims and Islamists in particular, do sometimes allude to what can and must be done about the manifesting threat non-Muslims face from Islamists. Wilders views as noted, have received the strong approval of Israpundit contributors including Ted’s and Sarahsue’s.
It is puzzling therefore that Ted and Sarahsue would find themselves in disagreement with me on my views as to what can and must be done that are inspired by such advocates.
Adams concludes his piece with the following:
This strong statement about resolving what he describes as our cognitive dissidence seems filled with wisdom and foresight.
Adams however pays no attention whatsoever to just how we non-Muslim Westerners are to rid ourselves of that cognitive dissidence. In this respect Adams article is like so many others in the same vein that end with a caution or a clarion call that “we must do….”.
Rarely do these writers devote attention to telling us how we can do whatever it is they say “we must do”. Instead their effort is largely spent on analysis and argument that gets them to their concluding, “we must do” conclusion.
I have attempted to address the issue of “what we must do”.
Ted has not dealt with the issue of what “we must do”.
Sarahsue has.
Her views however, apart from wrongly imputing and attributing to me opinions I have not expressed, taken to their logical conclusion, speak to getting non-Muslims to open their eyes to see Islam as evil, to see all followers of Islam, without exception as evil and that we non-Muslims must set ourselves firmly, courageously and resolutely to destroy Islam and rid the world of Muslims.
What Sarasue is calling for is a race or culture war to the death.
Muslims number 1.5 billion. Islam is the fastest growing religion in the world. It matters not whether that rate of growth is due to conversion or greater than average birthrates amongst Muslims.
The thinking of Western leaders and much of Western society vis a vis Islam and Muslims is guided by multicultural views, political correctness and very importantly, fear of Islamists or radical Muslims. Western thinking vis a vis the Muslim world is also guided, if not dictated in a number of respects by the leverage the OPEC nations have over Western society with their oil and consequential wealth to which power the non-Muslim Western world is vulnerable to.
Whatever the number of intolerant Islamists or radical Muslims, they number far far more then just the relative handful our leaders wishfully state exist. These Islamists have been effective in a number of ways and to varying degrees, some of which are signficant and very concerning, in transforming our Western civilization by taking advantage of Western tolerant natures, the vulnerabilities to the wealthy Arab nations and the fear that Islamists have instilled in Western non-Muslim societies.
How does Sarahsue propose non-Muslims become fully engaged in a race or culture war to the death and have as their objective the destruction of Islam and Muslims given the power of the Muslim world due both to their numbers and Western societies attitudes and reactions to the Muslim world that have empowered Islamists and much of the Muslim world even further?
Islamists or radical Muslims are continuing to increase in numbers relative to the world’s Muslim population and gain even greater power inherent in numbers, regardless of what those numbers are.
There may well come a time that Islamists will push the West to the point that that it cannot deny that it is on the brink of extinction or is inevitably headed to that point, unless it becomes fully engaged in a war of survival against those Islamic forces that seek only the death and subjugation of Western culture and civilization.
If and when such time comes, Westerners who cherish their own culture and civilization and want it to survive, if there are enough by then remaining, will care nothing about whether the all out war to the death they are pushed to by the Islamists is racist, righteous, moral or justified.
In such case, all that would matter is that the Western non-Muslims not only defeat, but utterly destroy all those who are seeking to destroy Western culture and civilization to ensure those enemies of Western culture and civilization get no more chance to rise up again. That may mean effectively destroying Islam.
I do not believe we are not at that point yet, but believe we are getting uncomfortably closer to that point every day.
That said I do believe that we have long since reached the point that the West must begin to rise up in defence of Western culture and civilization and to draw our line in the sand against the Islamists of all stripes and degrees, both within and outside our Western nations. There is no time like the present to do so.
If the West can manage that, it should set itself the objective of regaining ground given up to the Islamists and begin the effort in ernest to realize that objective. My views in post #4 are directed to that purpose.
Comment by Bill Narvey — November 7, 2009 @ 3:56 pm
Bill
What I said and do is avoid condemning all Muslims. I focus on condemning Islam. When saying that a peaceful Muslim is an oxymoron I am not condemning the peaceful ones but I am commenting on whether they are Muslims by belief.
Comment by Ted Belman — November 7, 2009 @ 4:23 pm
I just posted another article on reforming Islam that is right on target.
Comment by Ted Belman — November 7, 2009 @ 5:07 pm
yamit if you believe Christianity is as or more threatening to Judaism and Israel than islam then you are an idiot.
Comment by Laura — November 7, 2009 @ 6:29 pm
BTW I don’t separate muslims from islam. Anyone who considers themselves muslim is a believer in the islamic ideology which means they cannot be moderate.
Comment by Laura — November 7, 2009 @ 6:30 pm
How would you do that? San Fransisco would succeed from the Union and offer the city as a place of refuge for any Muslim.
Expain this?
How? America is Bankrupt and it will get a lot worse within the next 2-3 years. The Dollar is no longer a viable reserve currency and inflation will wipe out the existing middle class.
What line? How you going to do it? They got the violence the left and the money behind them.
there is no Judeo Christian anything, there is nothing Jewish in western civilization and hardly any Jews either.
Narvey what are your solutions?
Comment by yamit82 — November 7, 2009 @ 7:49 pm
Laura: from an Idiot!
Most Christians don’t care about the Jews and would rather see the nasty nation disappear. The survival of Jesus’ murderers challenges Christian doctrine; if Judaism is right then Christianity is wrong. Jews try to understand why the good American or British Christians refused to bomb the Nazi death camps. The answer is simple: the Nazis did the thing most natural to Christians. Germans viewed the extermination similarly: many detested the gruesome rumors about the death factories, but most Germans recognized that they had to do the aesthetically unpleasant thing and finally solve the Jewish problem.
The world did not pressure Russia over the immense atrocities committed against Chechnya, or China over the Uighurs. The world cares not about the Basques, Bretons, Red Indians, and scores of other oppressed minorities. The United States is built on occupied land. But the entirely insignificant tribe of Palestinian Arabs reaps international attention. The same media provides no coverage of other suffering Arabs: Shiites in Saudi Arabia, Christians in Egypt, Palestinians in Kuwait, etc. The only conceivable reason for the world’s passion for the Palestinians is anti-Semitism. Most anti-Semitic canards hold a bit of distorted truth, and so the Palestinian canard is true to an extent: Palestinians are much better off under Israeli rule, but they are less free, and most importantly, non-sovereign. But the screams in support of the Palestinian Arabs are not meant to support them, but rather to condemn Jews.
Jews lived peacefully with Muslims for centuries, but we have never felt comfortable in any Christian country; even the US was deeply anti-Semitic until the mid-twentieth century at least. Israeli problems with Arab nationalists stem in large measure from Christian actions. Christian nations pushed Israel into indefensible borders by carving Jordan and Palestine out of the land of Israel. Arabs might not fight a relatively large Israel in the borders of the Promised Land, but a beach-strip Israel is provocatively indefensible. The Christian state of America, rather than Muslim Egypt, forced Israel to give away the Sinai. Christian powers finance the Arabs’ wars with Israel by oil purchases, and enable those wars by selling Arabs advanced weapons.
Christian support for Israel is exaggerated. A two-thousand-year-old anti-Semitic mentality cannot change in a few years. Israel enjoys support from several messianic movements, but these are no more than the fringes of Christianity. Even for those churches, Israel is only an instrument for the messianic event. Should the Jewish state perish in an apocalyptic war, messianics will only see that as confirming their eschatology in furthering their aims.
Messianic churches don’t want a secure and prosperous Israel. Many rational leaders and compassionate Christians side with the Jews, but the core attitude toward Israel views her as a springboard for the eventual triumph of Christianity. To that end, Israel should not be secure. Jews who fit the messianic description must suffer, shrink, fall into (leftist) idolatry, and eventually be annihilated. Few Christians subscribe to the alternate concept that the Messiah comes on a wave of peace and prosperity.
There are many sensible Christians who like the Jews, and still more of those who hate Muslims and view Jews as useful allies. But Israel can’t ever count on the Christian mainstream. Curious indifference is the best attitude among Christians the Jews could hope for. Christianity wants a specific Israel—the lamb of Isaiah.
Note: Islam would not be a threat to Israel or any other nation but for the Greed of the Christian West and the Arming to the Teeth all of the Arab enemies of Israel. The Christian West and especially America use the Arabs a proxies to do their dirty work which comes down to wiping the only Jewish State off the map and the Jews with it. They will then claim innocence ( clean hands) , cry crocodile tears, build more Holocaust museums, fund chairs in New Holocaust studies etc, etc… They will once again love the Jews but only the dead ones.
Comment by yamit82 — November 7, 2009 @ 8:44 pm
Bill,
We are so close to agreeing. And the fact that we do not agree is a shame since we are both on the same side. It seems to me that the difference in our opinions is that I am willing to take the next logical step and you are not.
You say that I am calling for a race or culture war to the death. That is a horrific thing to charge me with, yet I am 100% guilty. I do see it as a war of them verses us. Only one side can win because the koran insists that it be so.
Just because the muslims number in the billions and by sheer weight of numbers, they should be expected to overcome any opposition, does not mean that the battle should not be fought.
You say that we both support and agree with Gert Wilders. This is true, I 100% agree with him. Yet we see his message in a different light. Mr. Wilders has stated over and over again that if the muslims were to assimilate, submit to the laws of their adopted country and get off the public dole, he would have no problem with them. The problem, therefore is that they will not assimilate, they want to have shariah law be the dominate law and that they insist on being supported by the state. And that is the rub. If any muslim came into any county and submitted to the laws of the land, became self sufficient and had a philosophy of live and let live, Mr. Wilders would have no problem with them and nether would I.
You charge me as saying that all muslims are evil, without except. Guilty as charged.
Yet I would ask you, what it the different between trying to ruin a country through ‘resistance’ as is happening in Israel or what is happening in Europe where the muslims are ruining those countries economically? Their goals are the same. To wipe out Israel and to wipe out Europe and America, take over the land and establish another islamic country. The muslims that that have not used violent jihad are moving forward just as fast to create an islamic state by ruining their adopted counties economically. Again, I ask, what it the difference?
Gert Wilders has charged that if the billions given in public aid to muslims had been used to support the elderly, his country, and indeed all of Europe would be much stronger and better off. He is correct. If the billions of aid given to the muslims in Israel had been used to build infrastructure then they and the Israelis would be much better off. Violent jihad and peaceful jihad has together had been responsible with weakening all countries that muslims reside in. No muslim group has been ‘guilty’ of making any country non-islamic stronger. That is why I lump them all together.
My solution is as horrific as you claim. I would declare a war on islam. I would start by deporting all muslims to the land of their ancestors. Let their native countries deal the problems that they, themselves, have created and perpetuated. Let them fight among themselves and destroy themselves instead of us. All aid should be cut off so that they were forced to live on either oil revenue or revenue created by ingenuity, resourcefulness and inventiveness. Is that a fate worse then death? To them yes, to us no. We have lived and prospered by those very things. So should they.
Comment by SarahSue — November 8, 2009 @ 12:56 am
I continue to tell you time and time again that the vast majority of Americans support Israel, polls even prove this. Yet you keep insisting there is this huge anti-Israel sentiment in this country. The anti-Semitism and anti-Zionism is coming from the secular left, not Christians. You seem to want there to be a riff between America and Israel. You would love for us to be enemies. Well that’s one thing you have in common with the left.
Comment by Laura — November 8, 2009 @ 2:10 am
Yes, I agree this is the case for the world outside of America. There is no passion whatsoever for the “palestinians” in America with the exception of a very small number of fringe leftists, ironically a great many of them Jews.
Comment by Laura — November 8, 2009 @ 2:16 am
There is no such animal as ,”moderate Muslim.” There is either a Muslim who pratices their faith (domination) or an un practising one. Islam is a horrible way of life period!
Comment by tov — November 8, 2009 @ 2:49 am
To reiterate. The Palestinians are a fake group of mostly Islamic Arabs! The Arabs have 22 countries. Cry me a river! Judea. Samaria and even Gaza are OUR land! It is totally disgracefull that the one-eyed putz known as Dayan gave away our most holiest of sites!
Comment by tov — November 8, 2009 @ 2:55 am
Laura is right a majority of Americans Christians support Israel. It’s the secular-progressive movement that wants to destroy the Judeo-Christian principals the country was founded on.
There is no reason for Christians not to support Israel or our Jewish brother and sisters.
Why anti-Semitic ******** Why anti-Israel ********* Why anti-Zionist *********** Why?
Jews are peaceful people led by G-d back to the Holy Land to live in peace.
Fought wars only in defense of it’s sovereign rights and to protect her people.
Why not anti-Hamas ******* Why not anti-Hezbullah ******** Why not anti-Islamic terrorist. Why not.
These all represent hate.
Please tell me then, why Israel and her people??
Comment by rongrand — November 8, 2009 @ 3:16 am
SarahSue:
You lily livered liberals or so wishy washy, so tentative. What is required is really bold measures that would eradicate a problem of ever growing proportions. The runaway growth of these Islamic vermin- they now number almost 2.6 bil. What we should do is begin nuking the major Muslim cities using the most powerful atomic and Hydrogen bombs. We can begin with Teheran-Karachi-Beirut-Damascus-Istanbul-Lahore-Damascus-Cairo-Peshawar-Jakarta-Mecca.
From there we can carpet bomb, using the latest incendiary devices perhaps with phosphorus and cluster explosives, the rural regions of the principal Islamic nations.
The survivors can be concentrated and detained in special camps. They may be delivered from their anguished state through a generous administering of zyclon B. Through these humane measure western civilization will be saved from the scourge of these dangerous camel jockeys.
If the red cross and Amnesty international objects, who cares, we know that they are all biased leftists.
SarahSue, I am sure you appreciate my “modest proposal”.
Comment by h peskin — November 8, 2009 @ 4:37 am
Rongrand:
Ron: you are utterly original….perceptive…incisive…..truthseeking…. an enormous pleasure to read and learn from your brilliant comments.
No wonder you are often described by Yamit and your numerous other admirers as a Goyishe Kopp.- Which in yiddish is the highest compliment possible from a Jew to a Gentile. Mazel Tov.
Comment by h peskin — November 8, 2009 @ 4:50 am
Why do we continue to tolerate this dick peskin?
Comment by Laura — November 8, 2009 @ 7:24 am
Agreed. Of course a moonbat like peskin thinks the idea of forcing muslims to be self-sufficient and stop living off the west amounts to an extremist position. This is why he responded with that sarcastic post.
Comment by Laura — November 8, 2009 @ 7:28 am
Peskin you are among other nefarious things a liar. I never referred to Ron or any other commenter with the pejorative Goyishe Kopp!
If anyone here on Israpundit has a Goyishe Kopp it is you Barbie.
Comment by yamit82 — November 8, 2009 @ 1:01 pm
Yamit, Uncle Nahum I gather from both you and Laura peskin did not pay me a compliment. Good grief.
Comment by rongrand — November 8, 2009 @ 1:13 pm
Accelerated Links : Saudi, Obama, Afghanistan And Israel…
Remembering the anti-Sikh riots of 1984.
Mapping the links between Fort Hood and 9-11.
Let’s extraordinarily render the CIA to Italy.
Surprise: Saudi Arabia has poor people.
Obama enabling Palestinian terror.
Arabs are exceptionally backward.
Lo…
Trackback by Islam And The West — November 8, 2009 @ 5:39 pm
swiss army pocket knife…
I always have my Swiss army pocket knife with me when I go hiking. It has saved me many times and I will never leave home without it….
Trackback by swiss army pocket knife — November 27, 2009 @ 5:00 pm