Jews must stand up for Israel
By Ted Belman
The Union of Reform Judaism- the URJ- recently completed a major gathering, a Biennial, in Toronto. Rabbi Eric H. Joffie gave a speech and resolutions were passed unanimously.
Michael Diamond is a member of the largest Reform Temple in Toronto and is a strong Zionist. He constantly writes in support of Israel and visits it often. He writes,
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In the case of those who lead the reform movement, it is very clear that that viewpoint is focused on a two state solution and the elimination of whatever barriers may exist to prevent that result. Other areas of focus include equity among all citizens of Israel. The reasons for the former position are not hard to fathom- a one state solution would put in danger the Jewish majority, and perhaps eliminate it. I know that there are various views about the demographics of the region- specifically the number of Palestinians- but there is little doubt in my mind that if you add several million more Palestinians to the mix, on top of the over 1 million existing Israeli Arabs, you are not going to make the situation within a redefined Israel any easier to manage.
What is also clear is that there are only a couple of alternatives to the demographic time bomb associated with a one state solution. One of those is some form of a two state solution. Another is a solution where portions of the West Bank occupied by Arabs become part of Jordan, Gaza becomes Egypt’s problem, and Israel carries on. But since neither Jordan nor Egypt are going to accept the latter option, there is really only one option- the two state solution- which will reduce the constant pressure on Israel and in the region, pressure which is growing and threatens to envelope Israel in a number of existential ways.
But lets be careful with our throwing out the words “Two State Solution” - because there are various versions of such a solution and only some will allow Israel to be safe and secure.
And lets us also not forget the fact that a whole slew of Israel’s enemies are committed to her destruction- not to a peace solution. That much is also clear.
That’s clear enough. After commenting on the lastest moves by Obama and Abbas he writes
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So against that backdrop, what does Israel need from the leaders of the largest Jewish community in the Diaspora? The answer is: unequivocal support for a two state solution that is rational, that takes into account the Islamist nature of the Palestinians, and/or the danger of the creeping Islamism that has infected most of the Arab world; that appreciates that Israel has made concessions in the past, and that Israel has offered peace many times, only to be rebuffed with violence; that includes an undivided Jerusalem as its capital; and that acknowledges that the ENTIRE Arab world, including the very Palestinians who are demanding a state of their own, does not yet accept the right of the Jewish people to have its own State in Israel.
So what should the URJ be hearing from its leader in such a situation? What resolutions should hit the floor of the assembly for discussion?
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The answer is NOT to present a resolution which calls on Israel to follow its own findings. What kind of arrogance is this from a group of Americans and Canadians safely sitting in North America chastising those who struggle to survive in another country about its treatment of one of its minorities? Has anyone compared the treatment and condition of the First Nations of Canada or the US with that accorded to the Israeli Arabs, or compared the condition of the Israeli Arabs with ANY OTHER GROUP of Arabs in the world? [..]
And Israel and the Jewish people do not need to hear how the presence- already in place, nothing you can easily do about it- of 100,000 Jews in the West Bank is anti-Zionist.
He concludes with what he would have recommended.
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1. There will be no resolutions which do not offer strategic support for Israel, having regard to the campaign to delegitimize Israel internationally. The Israeli Arabs will have to wait. So will our own Reform movement in Israel, which is treated with disdain by the Orthodox Rabbis who rule the roost in Israel. So will the secular Israelis who have to marry outside Israel because their marriages do not satisfy the wishes of those same Orthodox Rabbis. I have no patience for those people, for their ideology gets in the way of their morality. But that is an internal problem for Israelis, and they will ultimately solve it because they will have to in order to survive. And they do not need another group of Jews to remind them of the problems they have yet to overcome. Nor do they appreciate the largest movement in the Diaspora advertising to our enemies why Israel ought to be considered illegitimate. That simply makes no strategic sense. So we are going to be strategic here- we are going to focus on being stronger in our synagogues, on dealing with our own issues relative to intermarriage, and loss of interest in Judaism. And we are going to say and do that which helps Israel, and does not hurt her. And we are going to assume that our views relative to the presence of Jews in the West Bank, or Judea and Samaria, are understood already in Israel.
2. What there will be is a series of speeches, and resolutions, that destroy the bogus claims of our enemies as to the legitimacy of Israel, that bring into focus the reality of the Islamist expansion in this world which has Israel in its sights as an initial target, and that collectively make it clear that Israel has the right to exist as a safe and secure Jewish State. WE will make it clear that we, the Reform Jews of North America, support that right without question, regardless of whether Israeli Arabs or Reform Jews or secular Jews or Christians are treated as well as “observant” Jews in Israel, and regardless of whether there are 100,000, 200,000, or 10,000 Jews living in what may become a Palestinian State when the time is right. We will make it clear that, unless and until the Palestinians, and those who support them, acknowledge the right of Israel to exist as a Jewish state, that they cannot expect to have their own state. And we will make it clear and remind people that Israel has consistently offered the Palestinians a state, with only one material condition- that they accept Israel as a Jewish state, and live in peace. We will draw our line in the sand, we will be unambiguous, and we will be strategic. And we will not give in to our tendency, as liberal democrats, to tell others, particularly our own people, how to be better people and a better People. And finally, we will repeat, over and over again, that Israel is the indigenous homeland of the Jewish people, and that Jerusalem is the capital of that homeland.
But the Reform movement missed an opportunity here to stand up for Israel and for the Jewish people at a time when doing so would have been noticed and important and strategic at such a difficult time (alas, again) in our history.
Diamond is right to chastise the Reform Movement and is right in recommending UJR the right course.
I will not quibble over the fact that he placed “only one material condition- that they accept Israel as a Jewish state, and live in peace” because elsewhere in his remarks he stressed “that Israel is the indigenous homeland of the Jewish people, and that Jerusalem is the capital of that homeland.
Diamond’s position on a 2 state solution is undermined by a fact that he himself recognizes, which is:
Palestinians fit the definition of Israel’s enemies.
Diamond further undermines his views on the kind of 2 state solution that needs to emerge with the following statement:
The Israelis and Palestinian/Arabs come at the issue of a two state solution from two different and antithetical positions and definitions of peace in relation to a 2 state solution. There is little reason to hope that these antithetical views will be reconciled any time soon.
Diamond’s views in support of a 2 state solution based on the premises he outlines, as rational, logical and attractive as they are to most rational and logical people, the Palestinian/Arab mind operates from a very different perspective and under very different rationales and logic, which makes even Diamond’s vision unattainable, assuming all thinking on both sides of the issue remain roughly equal.
That said, Diamond’s positions against the URJ’s thinking and resolutions passed at their recent Biennial gathering in Toronto, while likely finding support from Conservative and Orthodox sectarian Jews, makes him a dissident within his own Reform Jewish camp.
He is going to have to work awfully hard to make his dissident views the majority URJ view, if there is any hope for Reform, Conservative and Orthodox diaspora Jewry to unite and adopt a common message of support for Israel in keeping with Diamond’s views and to stay united and on message.
Comment by Bill Narvey — November 21, 2009 @ 3:50 pm
Let us never forget that the G-d worshiped in Reform synagogues bears absolutely no resemblance to the G-d of the Torah.
Liberals cannot worship a reactionary fanatic who floods the world to rid it of iniquity or turns apostates into pillars of salt.
The G-d of Reform Jews provided Moses with the Ten Suggestions because Ten Commandments would have been overly intolerant.
As a matter of fact, the G-d worshiped by Reform Jews bears an uncomfortable resemblance to Jon Stewart Lebowitz.
He is the G-d of Multiculturalism and Political Correctness who doubtlessly wears a trendy keffeyih and supports boycotting Zionists.
If Israel must rely for its survival upon the fidelity of Reform Jews, just close the place down right now and hand the keys over to Hamas.
Comment by ayn reagan — November 21, 2009 @ 6:39 pm
There is no such thing as a woman who is half pregnat and there is no such thing as a (Reform) Jewish Zionist. ASfter reading his bullshit I am convinced that we are better off without his and the reform movements support. Stay in America and how do the English put it Piss off!
The Term Jewish in the context of any reformed Jew in America IS AT BEST AN OXYMORON.
What the hell is strategic support? As opposed to what support or no support? Means nothing, Zero like this Diamond is a big fat Zero.
Now how are they going to do that? They aren’t Jewish in the first place. Their Judaism is’t Judaism and those that have run from them were right in doing so. They can smell the fraud a mile away.
These are the pseudo Jews who let the Jews of Europe be murdered and kept silent, opposed real Jews from creating any movement to pressure FDR into doing something and after 2-3 generations, not much has changed they would sell out another Jew on a dime again.
and if they first accept this condition and then change their minds, asshole what then? Any Jew whether living in Israel or in the Galut who is willing to voluntarily give up our Land, to an enemy is a Jewish traitor and there are penalties for Jewish traitors.
Excuse me but the Land of Israel is the indigenous homeland of the Jewish people and for most of our history it did not include the coastal plane. The indigenous homelands of the Jewish people are the very lands he would see given over to our enemies for a piece of worthless paper. Tell me Mr. reformed Galut (Jew; sic) What kind of secure borders Israel can have by giving up any territory whatsoever? 9 miles from the green line to the sea. The Mountain ranges overlooking the Sharon plane including BG airport? even TA is in primitive Kassam range? He speaks in stupid euphemisms that are meaningless especially from ground level here in his indigenous homeland.
This is the best reason to support orthodoxy I have read in quite awhile. The disease complaining about and over the cure.
We have enough diseased Jews here already and don’t need either more of the same or those infected more severely nor their support which will I am sure carry a price that is too high for us to pay.
How can they be an effective advocate for something they don’t believe in to begin with. Best to shut up and just give to UJA or whatever they call it today.
I never thought I would say this but all things being equal I prefer Christians to Them. When some of us have said Jews are their own worst enemy thse guys like Diamond are mostly what we meant.
In thirty years they will have ceased to exist as Jews and will not even use the term Jewish in any of their self descriptions. Good. So we should ignore them today before their corrupting rot infects otherwise healthy real Jews.
Note:2500 years some fundamentalist Jews decided enough was enough and went about killing off the reformed liberal Jews of their time in a 23 year bloody civil war. Thank G-d they were successful. They saved Judaism. We call that event today Chanukah! What was can be again.
NARVEY
Really Like what can Orthodox support and even some real conservatives? I didn’t read anything that the Orthodox would support.
Comment by yamit82 — November 21, 2009 @ 7:43 pm
ayn
Let us never forget that the G-d worshiped in Reform synagogues bears absolutely no resemblance to the G-d of the Torah.
Liberals cannot worship a reactionary fanatic who floods the world to rid it of iniquity or turns apostates into pillars of salt.
The G-d of Reform Jews provided Moses with the Ten Suggestions because Ten Commandments would have been overly intolerant.
As a matter of fact, the G-d worshiped by Reform Jews bears an uncomfortable resemblance to Jon Stewart Lebowitz.
He is the G-d of Multiculturalism and Political Correctness who doubtlessly wears a trendy keffeyih and supports boycotting Zionists.
If Israel must rely for its survival upon the fidelity of Reform Jews, just close the place down right now and hand the keys over to Hamas
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Since you are relatively new to Israpundit, you may not be aware of the house rules.
Mr. Belman wishes that you refrain from name calling.
You must refrain from using obscenities, or engage in racist or homophobic attacks.
Also no delving in religious matters.
When you malign any Jewish denomination, you are acting to divide the community which if you think about it. has the effect of weakening the whole fabric of Judaism.
We are all free to to worship or not worship as we please. THe hebrew tent is large enough to accomodate all factions.
Stating- my view is better than yours is fine for a school yard but not at all fine for a mature blog site such as Israpundit
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When I was a child, I spake like a child, think like a child, reason like a child; when I grew up, I did away with childish things. corinth 13-11
Comment by h peskin — November 21, 2009 @ 7:53 pm
Peskin the rule applies to all but you. you are the sicko we need here to collectively vent our spleens over. That is your sole function. You are the asshole kid we used to beat the shit out of as kids and loved every moment of it. Some totally dysfunctional morons always seem to walk around with an invisible sign on his ass saying kick me here and we did and some of us still do with relish I might add. Some Humans are beyond contempt, vile , nefarious and I assume intentionally irritating. Therefore as one beyond the pale of civil discourse all is permitted, all is just, all is fair.
Comment by yamit82 — November 21, 2009 @ 8:05 pm
I know Diamond well. I wrote to him about his views on the two state solution pointing out that if the Arabs reject his minimalist position then does he intend to wait til hell freezes over or is he going to agree that Israel must act unilaterally.
He is on my mailing list.
Comment by Ted Belman — November 21, 2009 @ 8:06 pm
Peskin, your are right when you say:
I hope you take your own advice. Should you disagree with me or anyone else I am looking forward to you doing more with expressing your views then just seeking to qualify as one who fits within Spirow Agnew’s characterization of a contrarian as being a “nattering nabob of negativism”.
Comment by Bill Narvey — November 21, 2009 @ 8:10 pm
Remember: JESUS SAVES
Comment by yamit82 — November 21, 2009 @ 8:47 pm
There is no such thing as a Reform Jew. Reform Judaism was invented for people of Jewish heritage who find authentic Judaism offensive. The basic tenet of Reform Judaism is that upon further reflection G-d did not really mean what He said, and so left open to interpretation for wiser souls than He to determine the truth. From the Reform Jewish perspective, the Torah is basically Penthouse Forum, a publication good for suggestions and entertainment value but hardly a guidepost for a virtuous life.
What is the stated reason for the existence of Reform Judaism? That Orthodoxy is too extreme and Conservatism lacks sufficient humanity.
Reform Judaism posits that if you accept the Torah as it was written you wind up morally flawed, so Reform Jews have taken it upon themselves to improve the word of G-d.
It is that kind of hubris that allows Reform Jews (like the J Streeters) to lecture Israelis about not being so obsessed towards existential threats. After all, when you are so arrogant that you find G-d to be lacking in wisdom, you provide yourself with carte blanche to condemn harshly those ignorant superstitious primitives who actually believe in Judaism.
Comment by ayn reagan — November 21, 2009 @ 8:53 pm
Reform Women Arrested for Provocation at Kotel
http://israeljewishnews.blogspot.com/2009/11/reform-women-arrested-for-provocation.html
Nov 18, 2009 10:18 | Updated Nov 18, 2009 12:39
Woman arrested, released for praying in talit at Western Wall
By MATTHEW WAGNER
http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?cid=1258489193200&pagename=JPost%2FJPArticle%2FShowFull
Compare With:
Maharat Hurwitz Takes a Leadership Role at Hebrew Institute of Riverdale
http://israeljewishnews.blogspot.com/2009/11/maharet-hurwitz-takes-leadership-role.html
When is a rabbi not a rabbi? When she’s a maharat
By Kate Pastor
http://riverdalepress.com/full.php?sid=10518¤t_edition=2009-11-12
Comment by yamit82 — November 22, 2009 @ 12:08 am
Is There any practical difference between Reformism and Lutheran Christianity? Both deem no commandments obligatory, in fact,Lutherans are more Jewish in a sense because they believe the Torah is word of G-d while Reformists claim it was “inspired,” as like in novel.
Comment by yamit82 — November 22, 2009 @ 12:41 am
Yes.
By and large, the Lutherans are not anti-Semitic.
Comment by ayn reagan — November 22, 2009 @ 12:48 am
Ted, this past Thursday I attended a reception for a book launch -David Solway’s latest publication. Present were Barbara Kay, National Post columnist and a few other Jewish writers. I engaged in friendly debate with both Barbara and David. When I mentioned that I occasionally blog on Israpundit, they burst out laughing. They both agreed that Israpundit has become a joke, a shlock site that does not merit attention. I felt embarrased that I had brought up Israpundit.
It is interesting that both David Solway and Barbara Kay are not leftists but on the contrary can be best descibed as very conservative. Perhaps, the aynes, the Lauras, Yamits and those many others of similar calibre have lowered the standards of Israpundit to a level of mediocrity. I do not propose censorship but if personal attacks, hateful language,and obscenity can be reduced, Israpundit can once again be taken seriously, as it had in the past.
It is all a matter of enforcing the present rules.
Comment by h peskin — November 22, 2009 @ 2:37 am
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Comment by h peskin — November 22, 2009 @ 4:00 am
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Ironically enough, this past Thursday I also attended a reception for a book launch - Sarah Palin’s latest publication. Present were Harlan Ellison and numerous other award-winning Jewish writers. I engaged in friendly debate with both Sarah and Harlan. When I mentioned that I occasionally blog on Israpundit, they expressed deep admiration. They both agreed that Israpundit has become legendary, an invaluable site that merits constant attention. I felt gratified that I had brought up Israpundit.
Comment by ayn reagan — November 22, 2009 @ 4:53 am
Thanks Ayn.
I needed that. Did you really?
Comment by Ted Belman — November 22, 2009 @ 7:34 am
Yamit
I have removed your comment to Peskin. It was disgusting. Don’t become a make work project for me.
No ad hominen attacks.
Comment by Ted Belman — November 22, 2009 @ 7:38 am
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“Do I not hate, O Lord, those who hate you?” Psalm 139:21
Unity coalesces around unifying ideas, principles and goals. What have we in common? The deviants who have broken the 3300 year chain are the ones precluding unity and not the other way around.
Go ahead but then you are not a free agent in defining Judaism. Believe anything you want as long as you do not inject the prefix Judaism/Jewish, in describing what you believe or who you are.
To be normal, a person must be like others. When Jews lived isolated in their own communities, they were normal: each Jew was culturally like the rest. In the nineteenth century, superficial liberalism opened the outside world to Jews. The Gentiles still despised the Jews but called us their equals. Jews saw the world and its opportunities, and realized that they were not normal,not like others. The nineteenth-century German discussion of Jews is instructive: liberals countered anti-semites by asserting that Jews could eventually become like other Germans. They did not imagine that Jews were decent people in their own right. German Jews accepted that attitude and rushed to assimilate.
It’s hard, very hard to be different. The Jews wanted to be normal. Israel offers us a chance to normalize without Gentile-izing, to be like our neighbors, yet unlike the world that eats dogs and pigs, practices incest and homosexuality, and dislikes us at best.
It’s hard, very hard to believe you are right when the world is against you. And so the Jews suppose Gentiles are right, their customs better, that anti-semites have a point. And the Jews hate their Jewishness and see it as a stain and erase it. Deep in their minds they know their betrayal is bad, that they betray generations of Jews who went up on stakes and died in pogroms to pass on the spark of Judaism. The Jews hate the bug that makes them uneasy. They hate their Jewishness. They hate other Jews because they implicitly remind them that they are not Americans, leftists, or whatever other group they want to belong to, but Jews. Religious and nationalist Jews who wear their Jewishness proudly are a constant reminder to assimilationist Jews of their moral bankruptcy, of their betrayal. Gentilized Jews hate religion and take pleasure in suppressing it. They ridicule religious people, their habits and their wardrobe, without telling the children that those funny-looking religious guys stood tall in the face of persecutions, tortures, and murder for centuries. They discriminate against Jewish religious schools in the diaspora and ostracize their sponsors.
Gentiles have religion, culture, empires. Gentilized Jews reject Judaism, Jewishness, and Eretz Israel, though they concede to ghetto-sized Israel. Gentilized, rootless Jews realize their inferiority to Gentiles with roots. Jews used to be proud of themselves, and inferiority ruins their mental health. Rootless Jews hate their parents and their compatriots who deceived them about Jewish pride; as they see it now, Jews have nothing to be proud of. Rootless Jewish leaders hatefully oppress common Jews, choose policies detrimental to them, and divert their money to irrelevant and even anti-Jewish causes. Many Jewish families forego having more children because they cannot pay the skyrocketing cost of education, but fat American Jewish organizations refuse to finance Jewish schools to make education free.
The rush of the Jews to strip themselves of Jewishness confirms Gentiles in their contempt for the Jews. “Even the Jews realize that their ways are wrong,” think the hereditary anti-semites, “and we’re right to dislike them. Let them become like us, if they could.” Educated, wealthy modern Gentiles are no less anti-semites than their poor and ignorant ancestors. The difference is, they don’t want violence. The Germans detested the unorganized violence of pogroms; the Nazis listened and switched to planned extermination in death camps.
We are all free to to worship or not worship as we please. THe hebrew tent is large enough to accomodate all factions.
The Rabbinical Assembly’s stress on the equality of all Jews is incorrect. A law-abiding Jew is not equal to a murderer, a rapist, or a sinner. Justice depends on recognizing that people are not equal: some people sin and should be punished.
The rabbis say homosexuality is a physiological condition, not a matter of free will. That is a gross misunderstanding. Even if the homosexual drive is inborn, its realization is a matter of choice. The concepts of ethics and law are about controlling natural desires: not raping every good-looking woman, not stealing others’ possessions, and abstaining from possibly pleasant homosexual relations.
Homosexuals were virtually unheard of before the 1960s. In many cases, homosexuality is recreational sin. Eunuchs arrived at their state unintentionally and don’t enjoy it, yet are positively prohibited from the assembly. All the more are homosexuals prohibited.
The Reform and Conservative movements proclaim tolerance of sin and redefine Judaism to serve the tastes of their atheist congregations; a pet religion. They elevate violations into precedents and use them to substantiate further violations. The Torah prohibits extramarital sex, but the prohibition is no longer enforced and synagogues welcome adulterers. Why not welcome homosexuals? For one, the rabbis should reproach adulterers. The Talmudic Rabbi Zeira associated with bandits hoping to reform them, but contemporary rabbis disapproved of him. Modern rabbis associate with transgressors without condemning them because the transgressors pay synagogue fees and make donations. Second, marital infidelity is a lesser transgression than homosexuality: infidelity affects individuals while homosexuality pollutes the entire community. Jews must oppose every immorality, but Judaism never presumed all judges righteous. Sinners may detest other sinners.
Rabbi Joel Roth asked correctly, how can pork-eating, Sabbath-violating rabbis exclude gay people? In Jeremiah’s words, “Is this house, called by my name, become a den of robbers in your sight?” It apparently did, and one kind of robber sees no reason to exclude another.
Judaism is not a mega Political party. When an orthodox Jew speaks about Judaism, the meaning is clear: he refers to the laws of the Torah as adapted in rabbinical writing.
Jews never had a significant triumph throughout our entire history. Our military victories amounted to survival, such as when the Egyptian chariots drowned in the Red Sea, the Maccabees defied Antiochus’ attempt to eliminate Judaism, or in 1967. Jews survived miraculously while other nations perished.
The Jewish nation lacks riches; in our time, the Muslims got oil, not we. Jews subsisted in poverty on the barren hills of Judea, in Rome where Martial and Juvenal made fun of our beggars, and in the Eastern European ghettos. G-d doesn’t need another arrogant victorious tribe like the Romans or vainly rich bastards like the oil Arabs. Jews were promised neither power nor riches, but the status of a priestly nation.
Jewish wars, therefore, fall into three types: physical survival (with Egypt in 1446 B.C.E. and 1973 C.E.), spiritual survival at the risk to physical existence (the Maccabees and bar Kochba, both in response to restrictions imposed on Judaism), and the final messianic war.
I cannot tell you what to believe in, but I can show you that everything you believe about Jews and Israel is false.
Do we have a right to despise, to offend, to speak derisively? Most Jews have adopted a non-confrontational attitude: I’m not worse than you, but I’m no better, we’re all similar. Well, we’re not. Apples and oranges are different, and people like one and not the other. Why should we speak mildly of offensive views? Any opinion stated should be defended or it’s not worth considering. If you can’t defend your opinion then don’t state it publicly. If your opinions are offensive to some be prepared to be called on them for what they are. You have never defended any opinion that you offered here on Israpundit Never! When you did attempt to do so the effort was in the form of specious arguments easily destroyed by facts and truth.
Narvey has called you several times a intellectual coward or something similar. You have no definable positive morals and are definitely a coward intellectually and probably physically as well. You provoke in the classical manner of a provocateur and when reacted to derisively , you run to mama (Ted) to protect you. You are an intellectual pygmy,an eunuch impersonating a whole man.
The Jewish Tent isn’t! Those like you long ago I think have removed yourself from that nomenclature: Jewish
You seem to and have demonstrated a strong affinity and knowledge of NT as opposed to Jewish sources. That alone is sufficient to exclude you from that large Tent of yours.
Comment by yamit82 — November 22, 2009 @ 12:30 pm
Well…
…there is a little creative license there.
However, the point is that peskin’s critique is unwarranted.
And, I suspect, apocryphal.
I would be interested in hearing specifics.
Other than yamit’s implausible claims of having seduced and abandoned Tina Louise, what is the schlock component of Israpundit?
Okay, if you also exclude my extremist frothing at the mouth, what is the schlock component of Israpundit?
Comment by ayn reagan — November 22, 2009 @ 3:27 pm
email
Comment by Ted Belman — November 22, 2009 @ 7:13 pm
implausible? My foot. Try any of these adj instead: believable, likely, possibly, probably, reasonable.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lL9YIpp_rlk&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6vOQ_PwgQ8A&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2hyQs5SKL40&feature=related
Comment by yamit82 — November 22, 2009 @ 7:31 pm
David Solway has replied to my email about Pesky’s comment and I am waiting for his permission to post it. Pesky won’t recover.
Comment by Ted Belman — November 22, 2009 @ 7:51 pm
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