Iran Tortures Female Christian Converts
What would they do to JESUS?
by Bill Levinson
Militant “Muslims” seek to appeal to Christians by invoking the ancient blood libel of Jews as Christ-killers. It is not Jews, however, but militant “Muslims” who persecute and even kill Christians in the 21st century, and it is pretty easy to imagine what they would do to Jesus. As stated in the New Testament (Matthew 25:40) , “Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethern, ye have done it unto me.”
No recourse to Christian theology is necessary to understand the truth of this statement. If someone kills someone’s student, he kills part of the teacher’s work and therefore part of the teacher’s life. If someone burns someone’s book, he destroys part of that person’s work. When Saudi Arabia burns or shreds Bibles, it is destroys Jesus’ work and therefore part of Jesus’ life. Militant “Muslims” are therefore the 21st Century’s Christ Killers, and they should be referred to as such at every opportunity.
Two young Iranian women, Maryam Rostampour and Marzieh Amirizadeh Esmaeilabad, suffered physical abuse and torture in Iran’s notorious Evin Prison because they converted to Christianity. Iran had in fact threatened to put them to death, much as the depraved Roman Emperor Nero fed Christians to lions to entertain his mob. Iran finally decided to spare these women’s lives, but it first subjected them to torture and physical abuse in an effort to get them to repudiate their beliefs.
- While detained at Evin Prison, which is notorious for its brutal conduct toward women, Maryam and Marzieh have been kept in solitary confinement and have endured extended interrogations, all the while suffering from poor health, … Although released, eight months of abuse and mistreatment by Iranian security forces have undoubtedly taken a toll on Maryam and Marzieh’s health. The ICC disclosed Marzieh has suffered intense headaches, toothaches, and spinal pain, while both women have been denied medical treatment.
From what we know of Evin Prison, “abuse and mistreatment by Iranian security forces” often includes rape, with Iranian religious police and jailers gratifying their primitive urges on helpless women in their custody: a practice similar to that of the Spanish Inquisition, which often accused attractive young women of heresy or witchcraft to get them into the custody of Inquisitors whose vows of chastity were not worth the air with which they were spoken.
- I endured many different tortures while in prison. The first day I was tortured, I still remember the day, August 25, 1980-it was a Monday. I was tied to a very short bench and blindfolded with a filthy rag. Then I was flogged on my back and on the soles of my feet with a cable. Threats of rape were also used as a form of torture, not just against me, but all the women prisoners. The interrogator who threatened to rape me was the chief interrogator for section seven of Evin Prison, named Rahmani. After he had flogged me with a cable for a week and gotten nowhere, he began threatening me with rape. He kept it up for 3 months.
…They also threatened to rape my younger sister, Nassrin Pardehshenas, who was only 18. Ultimately, they did rape her before she was executed.
…Ayatollah Khomeini issued a special “religious decree” that required that all virgin women prisoners be raped before execution to prevent them from going to heaven. They also threatened Ashraf Jalali, Farah Shirmahale, and Mashid Sheikh with rape. The routine was to rape all of the women, especially the unmarried girls, before they were executed.
Iran’s religious police and their enforcers do not limit their sexual perversions to women; they also engage in forcible sodomy, which is probably punishable by death (even if consensual) for ordinary Iranians.
- Taraneh’s is not the first allegation of brutal raping of a post-election protester — according to the UK Guardian, an 18 year old boy in Shiraz was repeatedly gang raped by prison officials while in detention after being arrested for participating in the protests on June 15.
The above allegations of physical abuse are consistent with the following as well
Inmates’ nerves and emotions were played with by the staff. In fact, they were often mentally and sometimes physically tortured. For instance, every time a prisoner received a flogging with iron wire (Aatashi) in the prison office, they put loud-speakers in the four communal wards and the prisoners had no choice but to hear the woman’s screams and wailing, which made them all cry and prevented them from being able to have appetite for lunch or supper. …Zahra, a 43 year-old illiterate woman from Kermanshah and mother of 6 children, who had moved to Bandar-Abbas with her second husband to sell two of her small children to a Dubai sheik, claimed that she was tortured in Evin: she was hung upside-down, her nails were pulled, and all her teeth were broken.
…Prison officials were negligent about the inmates’ health. There was a lack of sufficient medicine in prison, and it was difficult for the prisoners to succeed in getting permission to go to the infirmary.
…Apparently there were volleyball teams in Wards #1 and 4. In the Ward #2, inmates were told that there was no ball for them. So the staff had taken 500 toumans from each inmate in order to buy a ball; but that was six months earlier and there was no sign of a ball.:
The above shows that Iran’s religious police and prison officials are common thieves as well, but are obviously exempt from the laws that require other thieves to have their hands chopped off.
The Community Organizer in Chief, however, still thinks he can negotiate with this murderous regime, which has stated openly its intentions to use nuclear weapons on its neighbors and even the United States–noting a Mahmoud Ahmadinejad event in which a glass ball with an American flag shattered after being dropped through an hourglass. We remind Bow-rack O-bow-ma of Lord Clifford’s admonition to King Henry VI, an equally weak-willed and incompetent head of state:
- KING HENRY VI
I prithee, give no limits to my tongue:
I am a king, and privileged to speak.
CLIFFORD
My liege, the wound that bred this meeting here
Cannot be cured by words; therefore be still.
The disease that afflicts Iran cannot be cured by words either, and the solution probably involves 1250 foot pounds divided by the weight of each religious policeman and religious judge to obtain the length of his specific solution. This solution will have to be applied by the Iranian people themselves, possibly after a civilized Western nation renders Iran’s army incapable of protecting its masters, or possibly after Iran’s army remembers that the German officers who conspired to kill Hitler were executed only for not using enough explosives to do the job. The fate of Benito Mussolini at the hands of his own people also can serve as an example of what needs to be done.
In the meantime, remember that the next time the militant “Muslims” issue a blood libel of Jews, they are themselves the ones who persecute, torture, and kill Christians today. It is easy to imagine what they would do to Jesus.
Christians can be as bad as Jews when it comes to protecting their own. The Muslims ethnically cleansed Lebanon of Christians while Christendom watched in silent cowardice. Islamists are seeking to do the same in Nigeria. Once again, Christians passively watch. And, of course, the Palestinians are among the most violent persecutors of Christians. Christians respond by grieving…for the Palestinians.
Viewing the tragedy in Iran from a different knothole, American feminists are once again proving through their silence that they don’t give a damn about females. All that matters to them is bashing religious conservatives in America.
Limbaugh said today that liberalism is a lie, and liberals are habitual liars who care nothing for their stated principles. Well, the Iranian torture of female Christian converts provides progressives with the opportunity to make a liar of Rush. Will the human rights/pro-peace/feminist crowd now defend female Iranian Christians?
It is a rhetorical question.
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Levinson, I do hope you never get to be an extended guest in any of Americas maximum security lockups. Your descriptions of prisoner treatment in Iran mirrors much of what goes on in American prisons, every dictatorship in the world. Russia mostly Christian Orthodox, and in China just to name some few big names.
I think lack of interest of Christians is not less than their lack heterogeneity. There are more divisions within Christianity than with Islam but on most theological points they have a similarity in purpose and goals at least. Both seek to become top dog. Muslims mostly predominate the middle East and Islam reflects a common culture which it adopted from the pre Islamic cultures of the whole of the ME. If anything Islam has tempered much of pre-Islamic social and cultural Barbarism.
In short, physical and mental torture are used by every nation in the world to varying degrees. That would include Israel and the USA.
Your attempt once again to plave everything within the concept of relativism, looks good at first glance but then falls aprt at the seems under scrutiny. Your syllogisms just don’t hold up.
More death penalties are carried out in the USA per year than in Iran.
As a Jew and an Israeli I maintain that both Islam and the Christian West should suffer the Great Pox of retribution .
Since Islam claims to have the mantle of final prophesy and that they hold the Truth. They would have treated any Jesus unkindly. Probably burned him for being a heretic which he was according to your boy Mathew.
The Jews according to your boy Luke almost beat the Romans to the cross when they: * Luke 4:16: And Jesus came to Nazareth, where he had been brought up, and he went to the synagogue, as his custom was, on the Sabbath day…
There, Jesus hinted to his friends and neighbors that he was the Messiah, however:
* Luke 4:28: When they heard this, all in the synagogue were filled with wrath. And they rose up, and put him out of the city, and led him to the brow of the hill on which their city was built, that they might throw him down headlong.
Both Christian and Muslims advocate lies and deceit to promote and spread their beliefs
* Corinthians 9:20-22: To the Jews I became as a Jew, in order to win Jews; to those under the law I became as one under the law — though not being myself under the law — that I might win those under the law. To those outside the law I became as one outside the law — not being without law toward God but under the law of Christ — that I might win those outside the law. To the weak I became weak, that I might win the weak.
* Romans 3:7: If through my lies God’s truth abounds to His glory, why am I still being condemned as a sinner?
* Philippians 1:18: In every way, whether in pretense or in truth, Jesus is proclaimed, and in that I rejoice.
Comment by yamit82 — November 24, 2009 @ 4:30 pm
So now America is a dictatorship according to you? First of all, whatever violence goes on in American prisons are prisoner on prisoner violence and the guards themselves are abused by the prisoners. Furthermore those who are in prison in America are the most violent, hard core criminals, they are not in there because they converted to another religion. Whatever happens to them, who cares. Do you hate America that much that you could actually come here and post a comment in defense of the Iranian regime and trying to equate America with Iran?
Comment by Laura — November 24, 2009 @ 11:29 pm
Re: #4
It might go on in isolated situations, but it is illegal and those who do it go to jail themselves when they are caught. It was Ayatollah Khomeini, though, who said it was not only acceptable but mandatory to rape condemned female inmates in his prisons. I wonder how many that dirty old goat-beard raped himself before Allah finally called him home.
I doubt it, and murder (with aggravating circumstances) is the only crime for which anybody has been executed in this country for decades. The country in which YOU live, however, could not bring itself to put a rope around the neck or a needle in the arm of the individual who smashed in a little Jewish girl’s head with a rifle butt, but instead let him go as part of some kind of deal with Hamas. I’d have given him a long drop and a sudden stop, or the equivalent. The United States (or more specifically the state of Virginia) recently euthanized the militant “Islamic” Beltway sniper who murdered six or eight people a while ago, and the guy who allegedly shot up Fort Hood will probably get the same if he is found guilty. Even Eric Holder wants the needle for Khalid Sheikh Mohammed, who plans to brag about his role in 9/11 at his trial. I hope he does; then even a jury of idiots or Obama supporters (but I repeat myself) will have to find him guilty.
Luke is not “my boy,” because I do not believe in his religion. The ancient Jews seem to have overreacted, though; if somebody came around here and said he was the Messiah, I would not do anything more than call for the men in white coats to take him away to the funny farm.
Now this is a line you SHOULD quote to any wavering Jew who is approached by the J for Js or other missionaries. It is how Christians have won converts for centuries, and all around the world.
On the other hand, we can challenge the Presbyterian Church USA and other Israel-bashers as to what, if anything, they are doing about the torture and murder of Christians by Christ-killing Islamic supremacists (we don’t believe that Jesus was the Anointed One, but neither do the militant “Muslims” who use the Crucifixion images against Jews so freely), as it is past time to call the enemies of Civilization.
Comment by Bill Levinson — November 24, 2009 @ 11:33 pm
I seriously doubt that and the meager number of executions that are actually carried out in America are to first degree murderers. Iran executes homosexuals, women who have been accused of adultery, converting to Christianity etc. I get that you despise America but I didn’t think you hated it so much that you could actually feel compelled to defend the Iranian regime, which wants to wipe Israel off the map.
Comment by Laura — November 24, 2009 @ 11:38 pm
islam is a demonic, perverted death cult that needs to be vanquished. And to those squeamish liberals who are offended by my description of islam, too fucking bad.
Comment by Laura — November 24, 2009 @ 11:41 pm
Islam-baiters love to cry wolf about the alleged signs of female oppression, such as veil. In the 24th sura, women are commanded not to display their beauty—a reasonable suggestion among Bedu people, a matter of safety as well as modesty. The sura enjoins men similarly. In the 33rd sura, women are commanded to wear a cloak in order to be recognized as related to Mohammed—also a measure of safety. The purported reference to the veil in the same sura is just the opposite of the Islamic tradition: ibn Malik tells Mohammed’s guests to talk to his wives from behind a curtain (hijab), among other suggestions on how to avoid bothering him. It is men rather than women who need the curtain. In that case, the curtain acts like a wall, protecting the privacy of women in the house, so that the men don’t enter their space unannounced. There is no veil in the Koran. It is Christianity that expressly prescribes a veil in 1Cor11:6.
Islam prohibits usury, but Mohammed left the term undefined. Koran 2:282 deals at length with loans. 3:130 prohibits usury which doubles and compounds the original amount. 2:275 equates trade with usury, but allows trade. It seems that the Koran bans only excessive interest, rather than business loans. Judaism, more practically, prohibits interest charged to neighbors only. Classical Christianity prohibited interest altogether.
No religion differentiates between political and religious life. Islam is no exception. Jewish society was a theocracy for most of recorded history. The Vatican sought political dominance, and Protestantism shaped the legal systems of its host countries. Think of how religious beliefs shape American life, from Christmas holidays to the prohibition of polygamy to opposition to the Islamic enemy. Iraq under Saddam was only a bit more religious than America. Egypt, Palestine, Dubai, and Bahrain are hardly religious at all. The Saudis like to legitimize themselves with religious nonsense, but other Muslims are skeptical about the Saudis’ Islamic credentials.
Rome was cynical about religion. Medieval Europeans were superstitious atheists rather than fervent Christians—look at the French cathedrals with their persistent pagan themes. The Renaissance swept dogmas away. Then came the religious resurgence. Something that the human psyche needs as deeply as religion cannot go away. Look at the number of books on Christianity and Buddhism at the US bookstores. Look at many Americans’ experimentation with Hinduism and various types of Buddhism.
Christian sentiment is behind the anti-Muslim clash-of-civilizations hysteria. How are Iraq and Afghanistan different from the crusades? Both are the Christian world’s reaction to Muslim encroachment. Politically correct societies substitute “culture” for “religion” and “Islamism” for “Islam.” Or witness the public debates over gay marriage and abortion—a purely religious issue. Children are as much afraid of entering dark rooms in the twenty-first century as they were three thousand years ago. Religion—call it culture, civilization, psychology, or ideology—is the most powerful drive of human beings, transforming a powerless individual into an interconnected part of a transcendent all-powerful system, whether angelic or equally superstitious nationalist.
It’s a delusion that suicide bombers feed on earthly failures and religious extremism. They are common nationalists, ready to die for their cause. Secular Russians were conducting suicide missions en masse during WWII.
There is no Judeo-Christianity. Rabbis permit Jews to attend mosques, but never churches. Islam is very close to Judaism in its affirmation of a single God and prohibition against worshiping images. That said.
Muslims are backward but not fools, and more practical than the West burdened with its idealistic morality. They understand they lag behind the civilized world and stand no chance in an economic race or a military confrontation. They know what they would have done if the positions were reversed: conquer, kill, and loot – and wait for the West to do the same. The West, as Muslims see it, plays devilish game with them: pays for oil rather than taking it by force, sells them weapons, shows them respect and generally behaves nicely – presumably lulling their vigilance before a major thrust. The nicer the West is to them, the more suspicious the Muslims are. Typical of their siege mentality, they hate everyone, but especially benefactors. They simultaneously suffer from paranoia and try to identify with potential executioners, thus imitating the West.
Talking to Muslim societies is useless. In their warped mentality, the best intentions look like the worst threats. They are frightened to death, thus ready to die, preferably apocalyptically. They wait to deliver a blow to the West, even a suicidal blow.
Comment by yamit82 — November 25, 2009 @ 1:16 am
Islam-baiters love to cry wolf about the alleged signs of female oppression, such as veil. In the 24th sura, women are commanded not to display their beauty—a reasonable suggestion among Bedu people, a matter of safety as well as modesty. The sura enjoins men similarly. In the 33rd sura, women are commanded to wear a cloak in order to be recognized as related to Mohammed—also a measure of safety. The purported reference to the veil in the same sura is just the opposite of the Islamic tradition: ibn Malik tells Mohammed’s guests to talk to his wives from behind a curtain (hijab), among other suggestions on how to avoid bothering him. It is men rather than women who need the curtain. In that case, the curtain acts like a wall, protecting the privacy of women in the house, so that the men don’t enter their space unannounced. There is no veil in the Koran. It is Christianity that expressly prescribes a veil in 1Cor11:6.
Islam prohibits usury, but Mohammed left the term undefined. Koran 2:282 deals at length with loans. 3:130 prohibits usury which doubles and compounds the original amount. 2:275 equates trade with usury, but allows trade. It seems that the Koran bans only excessive interest, rather than business loans. Judaism, more practically, prohibits interest charged to neighbors only. Classical Christianity prohibited interest altogether.
No religion differentiates between political and religious life. Islam is no exception. Jewish society was a theocracy for most of recorded history. The Vatican sought political dominance, and Protestantism shaped the legal systems of its host countries. Think of how religious beliefs shape American life, from Christmas holidays to the prohibition of polygamy to opposition to the Islamic enemy. Iraq under Saddam was only a bit more religious than America. Egypt, Palestine, Dubai, and Bahrain are hardly religious at all. The Saudis like to legitimize themselves with religious nonsense, but other Muslims are skeptical about the Saudis’ Islamic credentials.
Rome was cynical about religion. Medieval Europeans were superstitious atheists rather than fervent Christians—look at the French cathedrals with their persistent pagan themes. The Renaissance swept dogmas away. Then came the religious resurgence. Something that the human psyche needs as deeply as religion cannot go away. Look at the number of books on Christianity and Buddhism at the US bookstores. Look at many Americans’ experimentation with Hinduism and various types of Buddhism.
Christian sentiment is behind the anti-Muslim clash-of-civilizations hysteria. How are Iraq and Afghanistan different from the crusades? Both are the Christian world’s reaction to Muslim encroachment. Politically correct societies substitute “culture” for “religion” and “Islamism” for “Islam.” Or witness the public debates over gay marriage and abortion—a purely religious issue. Children are as much afraid of entering dark rooms in the twenty-first century as they were three thousand years ago. Religion—call it culture, civilization, psychology, or ideology—is the most powerful drive of human beings, transforming a powerless individual into an interconnected part of a transcendent all-powerful system, whether angelic or equally superstitious nationalist.
It’s a delusion that suicide bombers feed on earthly failures and religious extremism. They are common nationalists, ready to die for their cause. Secular Russians were conducting suicide missions en masse during WWII.
There is no Judeo-Christianity. Rabbis permit Jews to attend mosques, but never churches. Islam is very close to Judaism in its affirmation of a single God and prohibition against worshiping images. That said.
Muslims are backward but not fools, and more practical than the West burdened with its idealistic morality. They understand they lag behind the civilized world and stand no chance in an economic race or a military confrontation. They know what they would have done if the positions were reversed: conquer, kill, and loot – and wait for the West to do the same. The West, as Muslims see it, plays devilish game with them: pays for oil rather than taking it by force, sells them weapons, shows them respect and generally behaves nicely – presumably lulling their vigilance before a major thrust. The nicer the West is to them, the more suspicious the Muslims are. Typical of their siege mentality, they hate everyone, but especially benefactors. They simultaneously suffer from paranoia and try to identify with potential executioners, thus imitating the West.
Talking to Muslim societies is useless. In their warped mentality, the best intentions look like the worst threats. They are frightened to death, thus ready to die, preferably apocalyptically. They wait to deliver a blow to the West, even a suicidal blow.
Comment by yamit82 — November 25, 2009 @ 1:19 am
Re: #9
Christianity does: “Render unto Caesar that which is Caesar’s, and unto God that which is God’s.” King Henry V said that every subject’s duty belongs to the King (secular ruler) but every subject’s soul is his own, and Frederick William I of Prussia said essentially the same thing. Separation of Church and State is the law in the U.S. 17th century Poland, while shaped heavily by the predominant Catholic faith, was definitely not a theocracy; the Church had very little power to influence secular politics. Poland, in fact, ignored the Crusades (probably because there was nothing in the Holy Land that the armed nobles could possibly want).
And then we evolved into modern societies, just like the barbarism that passed for Christianity in the Middle Ages evolved into genuine civilization. The same goes for a few Islamic countries like Turkey that are at least partially secular democracies. Militant “Islam” was, in contrast, a knuckle-dragging ape when it was created, and it is a knuckle-dragging ape today.
You’re saying I can’t go into a church (as I have done for funerals of relatives of Christian friends) while politely ignoring any images of Jesus that might be present, but it is OK for me to go into a mosque where they venerate Mohammad? In the latter, I would probably be expected to put my face on the ground and my rear end into the air. The Christian clergymen, on the other hand, recognize that non-Christians might attend something like a funeral, and do not expect everybody to genuflect or pray to Jesus; if you listen quietly and respectfully, that is quite sufficient. The priests do not come up to everyone to offer Communion; they wait up front for the Catholics to approach them for Communion.
Comment by Bill Levinson — November 25, 2009 @ 2:24 am
Yamit, I have no idea why you defend islam which is the greatest enemy of the Jews.
Comment by Laura — November 25, 2009 @ 2:37 am
Re: #11
Yamit, I have no idea why you defend [militant] islam which is the greatest enemy of
the JewsCivilization.There, I fixed it.
Comment by Bill Levinson — November 25, 2009 @ 3:21 am
What is American society?
Madison based the Constitution on Talmudic law.
Jefferson wanted the Seal Of The United States to feature Moses leading the Exodus.
Even more elementally, Jesus accepted the Torah as being infallible.
Have you been gargling again with black tar heroin?
Which rabbis?
Rabbi Michael Lerner?
Rabbi Mohammad Atta?
That’s it, young man.
Go to your room, and don’t come out until you are ready to apologize.
Comment by ayn reagan — November 25, 2009 @ 4:11 am
“Render unto Caesar that which is Caesar’s, and unto God that which is God’s.” King Henry V said that every subject’s duty belongs to the King (secular ruler) but every subject’s soul is his own, and Frederick William I of Prussia said essentially the same thing. Separation of Church and State is the law in the U.S. 17th century Poland, while shaped heavily by the predominant Catholic faith, was definitely not a theocracy; the Church had very little power to influence secular politics. Poland, in fact, ignored the Crusades (probably because there was nothing in the Holy Land that the armed nobles could possibly want).
The monumental significance of the American Revolution is articulated in the Declaration of Independence. The Declaration teaches that to merit obedience, the laws enacted by any State must be consistent with the “laws of Nature and of Nature’s G-d.” This “Higher Law” doctrine provides grounds not only for civil disobedience, but even for violent revolution if the acts of the State evince a design toward tyranny. Not the State but G-d is the ultimate source of authority.
Based on Jewish Belief. G-d is the highest authority.
Such is the profundity of the Declaration that it was incorporated in most of the thirteen original state constitutions. Abraham Lincoln regarded the Declaration as the credo of the American people and the political philosophy of the American Constitution. Thus understood, the Constitution is based on certain immutable ethical and political principles. Most fundamental is the primacy of the individual, from which follows the principle of limited government. Limited government requires separation of legislative, executive, and judicial branches. This produces institutional checks and balances to prevent majority as well as minority tyranny. The Constitution thus prescribes institutional means to safeguard the individual’s rights to Life, Liberty, and the pursuit of Happiness.
America was based primarily on the Protestant ethic. Without denying serious flaws, this ethic exalted family values. It emphasized education, honest work, thrift, self-reliance, personal responsibility. This era is fading away. The bureaucratic state is intruding more and more into the family; universities are propagating moral relativism; and during the past few decades, millions of immigrants, poorly educated or of dubious character, have entered America. Unlike the immigrants of the late nineteenth and early twentieth century, a large percentage of these recent immigrants are not anxious to assimilate—an attitude encouraged by the cultural relativism that permeates the anti-American liberal-left.
Religion influenced most ethical and moral values enshrined in Laws and constitutions of every western country like monogamy, a day of rest,most social welfare policies in caring for the weakest of the society etc…! These were in the main taken from the Jews directly or through Christian cloning of Jewish precepts. One Nation Under G-d! In G-d we trust! It’s enshrined on your Dollar Bill.
Jews didn’t evolve or evolve naturally they as stateless people adopted voluntarily or by force and pressure the dominant cultures in whatever countries, societies and civilizations they happened to be part of.
In Islam like Judaism there is no separation between church and state. In this Islam emulates Judaism. ( I don’t consider reform Judaism Jewish or even Judaism.) It is nothing but a self serving and self defining cult essentially no different than mainstream Protestantism.
I am not saying anything, Judaism says that you can’t enter a Pagan religious site and in Judaism. Christianity is a Pagan rite or cult if you will. This is mostly based on the Christian concept of the trinity. Since Islam is according to their core belief is pure monotheism , there are no religious restrictions like with Christianity. That’s all I was saying.
Your ideas may seem logical and rational to your Christian world view of the world and religions but they have no connection to Judaism and I was referring to Jewish Laws and world outlook not yours.
You can and will do as you wish. Why don’t you check out Mathew or Luke for more insight in to Judaism?
Comment by yamit82 — November 25, 2009 @ 12:18 pm
Then or now?
Partially, but nuanced through a fundamentalist Protestant Christian Prism.
Christian replacement theology based on Christianity assuming the biblical prerogatives of Judaism as being the Chosen people and America being the new Jerusalem.
I don’t assume there ever was a real Jesus, there certainly are no proofs that a jesus or Yeshu, or Yehoshua ever existed and for me it isn’t important it’s a matter for Christians to unravel if they want to.
Every Orthodox rabbi and sage worth the title rabbi!
Rabbi Michael Lerner? He is no rabbi, I’m not even sure if he is Jewish anymore?
Rabbi Mohammad Atta? No Comment, LOL
That’s it, young man.
Go to your room, and don’t come out until you are ready to apologize.
I have stocked my room with 2 years worth of munchies and frozen slurpees, a copy of Moby-Dick , my desktop computer and laptop in reserve, hundreds of back issues of Playboy (for the articles of course) and cell a phone with extra batteries.
Let me know when I am off your shit list. I am stubborn.
Comment by yamit82 — November 25, 2009 @ 12:53 pm
In my narrow view of the world but based on history and current realities I can state that anyone not our friend are our enemies. Who’s left after Islam and Christianity? That leaves more than Half of the people in the world to cultivate.
Comment by yamit82 — November 25, 2009 @ 12:59 pm
So that would make the worldview of America’s intellectual founder…JUDEO-CHRISTIANITY!
Christians represent the only hope for Jews to survive, and luckily they are highly receptive to the concept. In this world of six billion people there are only 13 million Jews, and at least half of them are self-destructive. Most of “humanity” wants the Jews dead. If not for Christians like Truman and Nixon, “humanity” would have already gotten its way. Do not allow ancient grudges to blind you to the fact that the survival of the Jewish people is dependent upon the rongrands of America, mensches of whom there are more than you seem to believe.
American Christians consistently support Israel specifically and Jews in general, asking very little in return (like being able to display benign manger scenes without having Jewish groups go berserk). Jews reciprocate that friendship with fear and hostility. It is outrageous and self-negating. It is also highly immoral.
People who treat their friends like shit wind up without any friends, and justifiably so.
I deeply appreciate Christian support for Israel, and do not impugn their motives. I also note that they have made America the best place ever for Jews; while European Jews cower in fear, the United States remains a comparative paradise. And American Christians hate Jews so much that they are intermarrying us at a fifty percent rate.
Ye shall know them by their fruits, and my experience - both personal and vicarious - is that religious American Christians are the least of my worries as Queen Of The Hebrews. Sight unseen, I will take your average Southern Baptist over your average Jewish Obamabot any day of the week.
Parenthetically, I am referring to white Americans Christians. Blacks possess a European perspective of Jews, doubtlessly because they still deeply resent overwhelming Jewish participation in the Civil Rights movement. Your caustic view of Christianity is appropriate for black churches.
But when it comes to white bible-believing American Christians, you are a captive of the past, existing in the wrong time and the wrong place. Twenty-first century American Christians are the best allies the Jewish people have had. Disparaging and rejecting them represents ingratitude, gratuitous spite, and ultimately a death wish.
Since you want to fixate on the implacable foes of Judaism, turn your malevolent gaze towards mosques and Reform synagogues…not necessarily in that order.
Comment by ayn reagan — November 25, 2009 @ 2:17 pm
I can’t remember where I read it, but I really think both of these Iranian ladies were not just released from Evin, but a few days after that, released altogether, charges dropped. Also, if I recall correctly, part of their testimony against one of their charges was that they were *not* converts who left Islam, since they had never chosen Islam for themselves in the first place, but were born into it. Asa Christian, I am sad & angry at Christendom’s neglect of our imprisoned &/or persecuted brethren — 17-year-old ex-Muslim Rifqa Bary comes to my mind — but on the other hand, I am reminded that our scriptures teach us only a “few” of professing Christians really are Christians.
As for Jewish persecution against Christian, they may not chop off our heads, but the libelous misrepresentations of a certain segment of Christianity (us Bible-believing conservative “fundamentalists”, dispensationalists) doesn’t just hurt, but it gets us in trouble w/ employment, society in general, government (especially now), & more, all b/c of false charges about our eschatology that are totally based on a myth. In other words, Jewish persecution against us is less severe in intensity, but just as vitriolic & more widespread & affecting more of us in our everyday lives. Not a day goes by I don’t feel it.
Comment by soren — November 25, 2009 @ 4:52 pm
Soren how do you mean Jewish Persecution against us? Or not a day goes by you don’t feel it? I have always had a lot of respect for you and other individual Christians who have posted on this site and others. My animosity seldom is directed toward individual Christians because they are Christians or gentiles.
Evangelical Christianity has spent over one billion dollars in the last decade to convert Jews to Christianity. Under the guise of “Jews For Jesus” and Hebrew Christians” a new threat of spiritual terrorism has emerged in the form of “Messianic Synagogues” whose theological tenets are identical with Christian fundamentalists who created them.
Their ultimate goal is the eradication of the Jewish people through assimilation.
Here is where the goals of Islam and such Christians juxtapose in common cause if not methods. Muslims seek our physical elimination and Christians seek our spiritual elimination as Jews. Do we Jews even here have no right to defend our selves from such a threat?
Comment by yamit82 — November 25, 2009 @ 6:07 pm
Ayn and Uncle Nahum, there is truth to both.
Yes I believe most Christians and Catholic not only support Israel but likewise Jews. I said many times, I and I am not alone in this, there is no reason to dislike Jews. Growing up with Jews I never looked at them being any different than I. We attended church and they the synagogue, all of us living our faith and being good neighbors. On our Holy days they acknowledge us while we acknowledge them on their Holy days. We always had respect for each other.
What Uncle is saying and I tend to agree somewhat. I am not crazy about those trying to convert Jews to Christianity. Why? Listen Christianity doesn’t have the only passage to heaven. If Christians believe that they are on a very narrow path. Faithful Jews built the Expressway long ago. Wait till they build the Third Temple, lookout additional lanes will be open.
Comment by rongrand — November 25, 2009 @ 7:31 pm
In defense of my position I offer:
http://www.jewishisrael.com/
http://www.outreachjudaism.org/
There are Hundreds more on the same general theme.
A cigar is not always a cigar, sometimes it can be a Trojan horse.
Comment by yamit82 — November 25, 2009 @ 7:40 pm
yamit, by Jewish persecution towards us fundamentalist Christians, I had in mind not the points you mentioned, though I’d like to address those, but the endtimes Armageddon myth largely spread by Jews, even I used to see popular books by Jews about it, though the replacement theology “Christians”, especially of the neo-nazi variety also push that myth. This myth about desiring to “bring in the endtimes” (something not possible) or caring for Israel for that reason, has painted us as kooks for a notion we don’t even believe, & even now, not just Obama’s Homeland Security, but his propaganda proxies are smearing us as dangerous extremists.
As for points you mentioned, no, Jews for Jesus (a name for a particular ministry, not denomination, that includes some Messianics, some Jewish Christians) and Hebrew Christians in the US aren’t the same thing as Messianic Jews (though some of them are members of Jews for Jesus ministry too) who are the ones that meet in “Messianic Synagogues.” Probably nowadays the biggest label in the US for Jews who believe in Jesus as Messiah is Jewish Christian. The theology of Messianic Judaism is different than that of Jewish Christians in other churches. There are very many falsely so-called “Christian” groups with the goal or desire of “eradication of the Jewish people”, but those groups you mentioned & Christian fundamentalists aren’t they.
Yes, you should defend yourself from threats, but not from false threats from those who are actually your best friends.
Blessings to you ~ soren
Comment by soren — November 25, 2009 @ 7:42 pm
Re: #18
They put up a Nativity scene at the local courthouse last year (i.e. on public property). I did not have a problem with it, noting how important it is to the large number of people of Irish, Polish, and Italian ancestry.
Like the National “Jewish” “Democratic” Council and comedienne Sarah Silverstein (”If you vote for McCain, to me you’re a s**tstain”). It wouldn’t surprise me if the NJDC worships a golden donkey and prays to the Holy Trinity (Franklin Roosevelt the Father, Barack Obama the Son, and Lyndon Johnson the Holy Ghost) while it serves kosher ham and cheese sandwiches on Yom Kippur.
Comment by Bill Levinson — November 25, 2009 @ 8:34 pm
Re: #19
Soren wrote,
Soren, your comments are always very thoughtful, and it is good to see them again!
You are 100 percent correct. The National “Jewish” “Democratic” Council has published anti-Christian material that is every bit as vicious as some of the blood libels that have been directed against Jews. There is for example “Bubbie versus the GOP,” which is really “Bubbie versus Jesus,” noting that Jesus, the Cross, and Christian ministers are portrayed in a “This is the Enemy” context. In one frame of the video, in fact, Republican politicians are shown sewing a cross into the blue field of the flag, in EXACTLY the same context in which the Star of David appears in anti-Semitic “Israel runs America” propaganda.
NJDC also knowingly and willfully (because they continued to do it after I brought the facts to their attention) smeared the Christian computer game “Left Behind: Eternal Forces.” NJDC said the game encouraged the player to kill anybody who wouldn’t convert to Christianity, while the truth is that you lose points for killing even the willing minions of the Antichrist.
I haven’t been back to the NJDC site for a while–too busy–but it will be interesting to see Ira Forman’s latest collection of lies.
Comment by Bill Levinson — November 25, 2009 @ 8:49 pm
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Re: #20 “Here is where the goals of Islam and such Christians juxtapose in common cause if not methods. Muslims seek our physical elimination and Christians seek our spiritual elimination as Jews. Do we Jews even here have no right to defend our selves from such a threat?”
If a militant “Muslim” comes at you with a scimitar or whatever and demands that you convert or die, it is indeed appropriate to defend yourself by killing him. That was how the alleged Fort Hood shooter was stopped; a brave police officer took him down.
If a Christian seeks to share the most important part of his or her life with you, this is in fact an act of love and friendship, and it should be received as such. As shown below, you can reject the Christian’s theology while not only respecting but even affirming his/her own beliefs. This is not even “defending yourself,” because a genuinely benevolent action is not an attack.
Re: #22 http://www.outreachjudaism.org/rollplay.html
As stated in “Raiders of the Lost Ark,” people who read books, including missionary material, are a lot smarter than people who burn books (e.g. “proper disposal of missionary material”). I read Jack Chick’s material all the time, and I learn quite a bit from it. Chick himself says he learned from Chinese propagandists who used cartoon booklets to sell Communism. If I burned Chick’s material (or refused to look at it), I would learn nothing. Furthermore, if I burn a book, it proves only that I am afraid of what it might tell me.
In fact, Iran’s need to persecute Christians proves that Christianity is superior to what Iran calls Islam. If Islam were the superior belief framework, mullahs who have dedicated their lives to study of the Koran could persuade Iranians not to convert to Christianity.
The same argument applies to Israel. Israel has thousands of rabbis who have spent years in study of the Torah and Talmud. If they cannot persuade young Jews that Judaism, as opposed to Christianity, is right for Jews, they are not doing their jobs. As shown below I, who have not studied these things in any depth whatsoever, will have to do their jobs for them (if burning books and agitating for laws against proselytizing is the best they can do).
As for the “missionary role play” program, I have something even more effective: “Just say Namaste.” This single Indian word conveys the Jew’s entire reason for not converting to Christianity while respecting and affirming the Christian’s beliefs. Meanings include “That which is of God in me greets that which is of God in you” or “All that is best and highest in me greets/salutes all that is best and highest in you.” If the entire world understood this, we would not have people killing each other over religion, e.g. Sunnis versus Shiites, and militant “Muslims” against everybody else. Furthermore, the fact that Christianity is not right for Jews does not mean it is not right for others, which is something that intolerant Jews who call Christians “pagans” must recognize.
Christianity has in fact changed countless lives for the better, and I am fully supportive of the conversion of militant “Muslims” from a religion that calls on its followers to die for their leaders to one whose basic premise is that its founder died for his followers. It does not matter whether Jesus was literally the Son of God; what matters is that the religion’s framework is the idea of the teacher or prophet sacrificing himself for his followers, in contrast to the religion whose prophet called on his followers to murder, rob, pillage, and die for him. The latter IS an inarguable historical fact.
Soren wrote
Jews must indeed recognize that missionaries are following their Right Way (Dharma, Tao) which is to do unto others as they would have others do unto them (i.e. share their faith in Jesus). This principle works quite well in a community in which everybody likes the same thing, which was probably true when Christianity was founded; people often lived their entire lives within 20 miles of their birthplaces, so cultures were very homogeneous. The advice to do unto others as you would have others do unto you breaks down, however, once you cross cultural barriers. A simple example was the golf ball manufacturer who offered the Japanese a “buy three, get one free” deal only to find that the balls stopped selling. It turns out that the character (kanji) for “four” also means “death” in Japan, and is therefore very unlucky. We think nothing of wrapping gifts in white paper, but white is the color of death and mourning in Japan and China. This is why many Jews find missionaries so offensive, but they in turn fail to realize that the missionaries are trying to share the most important part of their lives. This is why I advocate the use of “Namaste,” which is not even a respectful rejection of the missionary’s beliefs; it is in fact an affirmation of the missionary’s faith and a sharing of the same essential Truth even though we and the missionary arrive at it by different paths. Maybe Outreachjudaism would get better results in this manner.
Comment by Bill Levinson — November 25, 2009 @ 9:26 pm
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Trackback by uberVU - social comments — November 25, 2009 @ 11:13 pm
Holy Avalanche Of Bull Shit, Batman!
They want to kill us.
They want to persuade us.
Shall we weigh the relatives merits of being killed versus being persuaded?
For your next sage insight, will you compare being fed headfirst through a wood chipper against being tickled until you plead for it to stop?
THE MUSLIMS WANT TO MURDER THE HEBREWS.
THE CHRISTIANS WANT US TO BECOME THEIR BRETHREN.
Is this distinction overly nuanced?
No more crack cocaine for you.
Comment by ayn reagan — November 26, 2009 @ 2:36 am
You need to get a grip.
Two people arrive at your front door.
One is carrying a copy of the New Testament.
The other is holding a scimitar.
Who represents the threat?
Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaargh!
Comment by ayn reagan — November 26, 2009 @ 2:41 am
A pessimist, confronted with two bad choices, chooses both.
Jewish Proverb
I’d shoot them both why take unnecessary risks. Or when in doubt shoot first, ask questions later.
Rejoice not at thine enemy’s fall - but don’t rush to pick him up either.
Jewish Proverb
Why do Jewish men die before their wives? They want to.
Why do Jewish divorces cost so much? They’re worth it.
I couldn’t imagine somebody like Osama bin Laden understanding the joy of Hanukkah. CLEVER GUY?
George W. Bush
If the rich could hire the poor to die for them, the poor would make a very nice living.
H, Peskin
Comment by yamit82 — November 26, 2009 @ 4:39 pm
Christians cannot convert strong Jews.
They can only convert the weak-minded, who would wind up as J Streeters anyway.
Have you ever met any Jews For Jesus?
Good riddance, I say.
Comment by ayn reagan — November 26, 2009 @ 5:46 pm
Besides us how many do you know? LoL
Agreed then how many are left over?
As a matter of fact I have, This AM. I gave three a lift to Dimona. They belong to a group called abundant life ALM
http://www.alm.org.uk/
http://coolchurch.com/site/index.php?option=com_frontpage
Good riddance, I say.
While I tend to agree I am still conflicted. I still tend to believe ignorance can be fought and defeated. Maybe I am too Romantic?
Comment by yamit82 — November 26, 2009 @ 8:21 pm
Ah, the Romantics:
When you close your eyes
And go to sleep
And it’s down to the sound
Of a heartbeat
I can hear the things
That you’re dreamin’ about
When you open up your heart
And the truth comes out
You tell me that you want me
You tell me that you need me
You tell me that you love me
And I know that I’m right
‘Cause I hear it in the night
I hear the secrets that you keep
When you’re talking in your sleep
I hear the secrets that you keep
When you’re talking in your sleep
When I hold you in my arms at night
Don’t you know you’re sleeping in the spotlight
And all your dreams that you keep inside
You’re telling me the secrets
That you just can’t hide
You tell me that you want me
You tell me that you need me
You tell me that you love me
And I know that I’m right
‘Cause I hear it in the night
I hear the secrets that you keep
When you’re talking in your sleep
I hear the secrets that you keep
When you’re talking in your sleep
I hear the secrets that you keep
When you’re talking in your sleep
I hear the secrets that you keep
When you’re talking in your sleep
When you close your eyes
And you fall asleep
Everything about you is a mystery
You tell me that you want me
You tell me that you need me
You tell me that you love me
And I know that I’m right
‘Cause I hear it in the night
I hear the secrets that you keep
When you’re talking in your sleep
I hear the secrets that you keep
When you’re talking in your sleep
I hear the secrets that you keep
When you’re talking in your sleep
I hear the secrets that you keep
When you’re talking in your sleep
I hear the secrets that you keep
When you’re talking in your sleep
I hear the secrets that you keep
When you’re talking in your sleep
Comment by ayn reagan — November 27, 2009 @ 1:11 am
Ah, the Romantics:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SkIyrX_qpuY
my pick
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XEFj0nFtsBs&feature=related
Comment by yamit82 — November 27, 2009 @ 2:46 am
my pick original version:
http://www.youtube.com/profile?user=OfficialExileFilms#p/u/14/B9GBn3EG2Mw
Comment by yamit82 — November 27, 2009 @ 3:15 am
[...] Iran Tortures Female Christian Converts Posted on 2009 by Nitemare's Webmaster Iran – Militant “Muslims” seek to appeal to Christians by invoking the ancient blood libel of Jews as Christ-killers. It is not Jews, however, but militant “Muslims” who persecute and even kill Christians in the 21st century, and it is pretty easy to imagine what they would do to Jesus. As stated in the New Testament (Matthew 25:40) , “Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethern, ye have done it unto me.” No recourse to Christian theology is necessary to understand the truth of this statement. If someone kills someone’s student, he kills part of the teacher’s work and therefore part of the teacher’s life. If someone burns someone’s book, he destroys part of that person’s work. When Saudi Arabia burns or shreds Bibles, it is destroys Jesus’ work and therefore part of Jesus’ life. Militant “Muslims” are therefore the 21st Century’s Christ Killers, and they should be referred to as such at every opportunity. Two young Iranian women, Maryam Rostampour and Marzieh Amirizadeh Esmaeilabad, suffered physical abuse and torture in Iran’s notorious Evin Prison because they converted to Christianity. Iran had in fact threatened to put them to death, much as the depraved Roman Emperor Nero fed Christians to lions to entertain his mob. Iran finally decided to spare these women’s lives, but it first subjected them to torture and physical abuse in an effort to get them to repudiate their beliefs. While detained at Evin Prison, which is notorious for its brutal conduct toward women, Maryam and Marzieh have been kept in solitary confinement and have endured extended interrogations, all the while suffering from poor health, … Although released, eight months of abuse and mistreatment by Iranian security forces have undoubtedly taken a toll on Maryam and Marzieh’s health. The ICC disclosed Marzieh has suffered intense headaches, toothaches, and spinal pain, while both women have been denied medical treatment. From what we know of Evin Prison, “abuse and mistreatment by Iranian security forces” often includes rape, with Iranian religious police and jailers gratifying their primitive urges on helpless women in their custody: a practice similar to that of the Spanish Inquisition, which often accused attractive young women of heresy or witchcraft to get them into the custody of Inquisitors whose vows of chastity were not worth the air with which they were spoken. Full Story>> [...]
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