Why does Netanyahu want to negotiate so much?
By Ted Belman
I find the rational for this Netanyahu: Settlement freeze would prove Israel really wants peace very disturbing and unconvincing. Netanyahu said,
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“In the international circumstances that have been created, this step will advance Israel’s broad international interests. This is not a simple step, nor an easy one; but it has many more advantages than disadvantages,”
“It will enable us to show the world this simple truth: The Government of Israel wants to enter into negotiations with the Palestinians, is taking practical steps to enter into negotiations and is very serious in its intention to advance peace.”
“As part of our efforts to give impetus to peace talks with the Palestinian Authority and promote Israel’s comprehensive national interests, the prime minister will ask the security cabinet to approve a temporary suspension on construction permits for new residences and the [actual] start of new residential construction for a period of ten months,”
Why do we have to prove we want peace yet again?
Do the words that I have highlighted indicate that the quid quo pro is Iran?
Evidently the construction freeze will not be implemented in Jerusalem and will also not apply to construction that has already been authorized or to work on public buildings conducive to normal life in the territories.
But Salam Fayyad told reporters Wednesday
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that a settlement freeze was unacceptable without halt in construction in Jerusalem, which the Palestinians want as the capital of a state.
“What has changed to make something that what was not acceptable a week or 10 days ago [acceptable now]?,” he told reporters. “The exclusion of Jerusalem is a very serious problem for us.”
I can’t conceive of why this is in our interest save as the price we pay to have Iran denuded of the bomb.
Does Netanyahu intend to offer more to the Palestinians than Olmert did. If not what is expected from the negotiations. Apparently this freeze doesn’t give us a license to build in Jerusalem. We have merely agreed to disagree. But will we build with a vengeance?
And after the 10 months, what then? Can we build with abandon or are we back to building with a lot of pressure not to.
I don’t like it unless Iran is in the bag or we have got something else in return.
The world does not care.
In any event, isn’t this nonsense a verbatim recitation of the Gaza exit statement?
I don’t like it, period, primarily because it indicates that Netanyahu is yet another Israeli leader who justifies self-destructive behavior by rationalizing that the world loves a masochistic Jew.
The world loves no Jew. Rather than grieving about that undeniable fact, embrace it as liberation from public opinion and build the settlements while promising to dismantle them when the Palestinians accept Israel as a Jewish State…
…which I absolutely positively guarantee with zero probability of error will be never.
Comment by ayn reagan — November 25, 2009 @ 6:13 pm
Netanyahu the enigma, Obama and Iran:
Netanyahu is fascinating because no one has ever figured out whether he is a true Jewish patriot, or a closet leftist always on the verge of coming out of the closet.
And when Obama came into power, it was obvious he would never bomb his iranian muslim buddies. But as Obama lurches from one foreign policy disaster to another, his fortunes, and most importantly, those of the Democratic Party, are circling the drain.
Obama’s image now is that of a loser, of a wimpy nerd who talks big but is otherwise an empty suit. Since above all he is just another cheap politician masquerading as a “great leader”, he may be opting to change his image so as to appear more macho. That would explain his decision to beef up the Army in Afghanistan.
He might also be opting to bomb Iran. It is very important to realize that, although the American Army is horribly overstretched in Iraq and Afghanistan, America’s Air Force and Navy are sitting around with nothing much to do.
It would be a cakewalk for America, with its aircraft carriers, long-range bombers, and cruise missiles, to bomb Iran to bits. In contrast, it would be a logistical miracle for little Israel to do so.
So it would not be unreasonable for Netanyahu and Obama to make a deal. But for Obama to actually bomb Iran would mean a leopard actually changing its spots.
I just don’t know. Anyone wanna bet? Let’s see what good analysts we are. I bet that in the end, Obama is just too much of an ultra-liberal to bomb iran.
Comment by Samuel Fistel — November 25, 2009 @ 6:27 pm
Netanyahu is right that Israel’s course to realize her best interests must pay heed to geopolitical realities. Each Israeli policy, before it is stated and implemented must be vetted by an appropriate cost benefit analysis.
Though it does not count for much, it is in Israel’s interests to appear to be the one intent on pursuing peace negotiations. To do otherwise would count greatly against Israel.
It was Pres. Obama that has declared the settlement issue as the single most impediment to peace negotiations. For Obama it was an unintended consequence, but to anyone who looked more at the real world instead of looking admiringly at themselves as Obama does, it should have been forseen that the Palestinians would adopt Pres. Obama’s decision in toto and then make Israel’s agreement with Pres. Obama’s broad and unequivocal position on settlements, a pre-condition to any further settlement negotiations.
Given the absolutist position of the Palestinians on the settlement issue that mirrors Pres. Obama’s, Netanyahu’s agreeing to a 10 month settlement construction freeze (save for Jerusalem and the Gilo area) in order to assuage Palestinian concerns and make them more amenable to re-entering peace negotiations, will not assuage the Palestinians at all.
Netanyahu’s fundamental stances that Jerusalem will remain undivided, the Palestinians must recognize Israel as a Jewish state and the Palestinians must cease terrorism and Jew hatred incitement has been lingering in the background. The controversy over settlements created by Obama and taken to heart by Palestinians, has now pushed all these issues to the forefront of Palestinian minds.
Assuming it does not signficantly matter whether Israel moves to expand settlements now as opposed to 10 months from now, then what Netanyahu has managed to do by agreeing to a 10 month freeze is to buy Israel 10 more months of the status quo where Israel plausibly appears willing as ever to re-enter peace discussions without pre-conditions and it is Palestinian unreasonable and intransigent demands for pre-conditions that the world sees as scuttling the peace discussion process.
At least I hope this is a tactical effort by Israel to appear to be looking good as they run fast towards peace, but in effect they are standing still because Palestinian intransigence keeps both sides from moving forward.
Comment by Bill Narvey — November 25, 2009 @ 6:28 pm
TO TED BELMAN: I know it sounds like pie in the sky right now, but Yaakov Katz just made an offer to the Likud right wingers to join National Union to topple Netanyahu.
Aside from all the political and personal obstacles that prevent a right wing union, would this coalition have the numbers to make a difference?
Would you please consider writing an article to clarify this issue?
Here is the News Brief as it just appeared on Israel National News:
Comment by Aline — November 25, 2009 @ 6:35 pm
Israel’s status as a vassal state:
It makes one wonder, what could be more important for right wing politicians than to save the Israeli heartland and to restore the country’s sovereignty and self-respect. But they continue divided while the PM, Barak and Peres carry on with their leftist agenda.
Comment by Aline — November 25, 2009 @ 6:44 pm
This is genius, absolutely brilliant on Netanyahu’s part, and perfectly allowed biblically. Bravo.
Comment by soren — November 25, 2009 @ 7:47 pm
The vote was 11-4 in BB’s favor. All the Pseudo Lemming hawks voted for their seats in the government. BB and the likud must be toppled. There is a majority in the Likud against the Freeze. Lets see if they pull another anti Sharon revolution but this time against BB.. Must have elctions not inter likud coup. New leadership must come up. The old gang are as bankrupt and corrupt as Olmert, Sharon and Barak
Comment by yamit82 — November 25, 2009 @ 7:51 pm
http://www.naplesnews.com/news/2009/nov/23/north-naples-middle-suspended-kick-a-jew-day-email/
Dazzle the anti-Semites with your eagerness to make peace, Bibi.
Reason with them.
Comment by ayn reagan — November 25, 2009 @ 7:58 pm
Soren: Since when is relinquishing national sovereignty without a fight Biblically mandated or even allowed. Even a demand to give tribute of straw and barley is a Casus belli for war. Not a war of choice but an obligatory war Milchemet Mitzvah!!
BB gave up Hebron last time this time he has ceded officially Israeli sovereignty to America:
Fuck BB and all his Kapo Government
Fuck you too Narvey. Your true leftist kapo Colors are visible to all.
I advocate if no Choice, either civil war or If Israel doesn’t want Shomron and Yehuda there are enough of us who value the Land of Israel over the secular political ersatz Jewish state ( The State of Israel). If there can be 2 or even three Pali States why not 2 Jewish ones?
While I am not surprised I can’t hide my anger when it is announced officially. I am angry but I Knew is was already being implemented from Day 1 of This government.
Fistel BB is neither leftist or rightist he is just another in a long line of weasels who lie cheat and steal all they can when they can.
By the way Narvey what can be more in our national interest than keeping the heartland? A beach strip 9 miles wide?
Comment by yamit82 — November 25, 2009 @ 8:20 pm
Stooping to a New Low in Wussitude, Bibi’s “Security Cabinet” Approves Building Freeze In Judea and Samaria
http://israeljewishnews.blogspot.com/
B”H
A great way to reward those terrorists for their terrorism. Thanks Bibi!
We suspected you were still the wuss we remembered you to be, and now we know we were right.
Why don’t you join your friend, Obama, and start bowing to every arab you see. After all, like Obama, you have accepted dhimmitude, so you might as well admit it and start acting like a dhimmi in your own land.
But don’t expect the rest of us to follow you. We will not bow our heads. WE WILL NOT FORGET TO WHOM HASHM HAS GIVEN THIS LAND.
You are a disgrace to Israel, Bibi. Go apply for a job working for CNN. You are done in Israel.
M
Michelle Nevada,Israel Jewish News
Comment by yamit82 — November 25, 2009 @ 8:33 pm
Breaking: Cabinet approves Judea and Samaria ‘building freeze’
http://israelmatzav.blogspot.com/
The Netanyahu - Livni government (soon to be?) has approved a 10-month building freeze in Judea and Samaria 11-1. The only minister to vote against the freeze was Uzi Landau (Yisrael Beiteinu). The ministers of the Shas party, whose leader says “we cannot agree to freeze construction even for one day,” absented themselves from the meeting without explanation.
The head of the Samaria Council has called on Netanyahu to resign:
Head of the Samaria Regional Council, Gershon Mesika, said in response to the freeze on construction in Judea and Samaria that “Netanyahu deceived Israeli voters and must resign.”
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No one should be surprised by this freeze. We all saw it coming.
Comment by yamit82 — November 25, 2009 @ 8:44 pm
Yamit82 - Have you read the talkbacks on Yaakov Katz’ column about Netanyahu?
http://www.israelnationalnews.com/Articles/Article.aspx/9161
Nasty comments are flung back and forth between Katz’ and Feiglin’s supporters.
National Union Chairman Yaakov Katz just made an offer to Likud and other MKs who disagree with Netanyahu. I was going to call them Likud dissenters, but they are more like puppy dogs. They whine a little but in the end they follow their leader, wherever he takes them.
INN mentions Uzi Landau as the only Likud MK who voted against the freeze. Shas abstained.
http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/Flash.aspx/175275
Some Israelis seem to behave like the proverbial frog, being cooked slowly without noticing what’s really happening. One destroyed outpost at the time; one ten-month freeze at the time; and steady Arab construction and facts on the ground every day. This method of gradually dispossessing Jews is sadly reminiscent of Europe in the Forties.
Many voted for Netanyahu with the hope that he would confront and deal with Iran. But it’s clear by now that Obama won’t get involved in another ME conflict. Netanyahu has been aware of this for some time but has kept Israelis guessing because it distracts them from his main task: to create a Palestinian state.
Perhaps it’s time to accept this reality. Iran will get its nukes.
And Israel will find itself with a nuclear Iran, a stronger Hizbullah, a stronger Hamas, a stronger PA (whoever rules it in the future), and a much weaker, smaller and divided Israel.
And if that happens, Feiglin’s and NU supporters will still be arguing about who is better suited to run the country.
Comment by Aline — November 25, 2009 @ 9:11 pm
Aline: A case of Déjà vu?
Haven’t yet read comments but I will.
Israel Eldad (born 1910 as Israel Scheib in Podvolochisk, Galicia – 1996), was a noted Israeli independence fighter and Revisionist Zionist philosopher. He was an early member and later chief ideological strategist of the Lehi.
Israel Scheib was born in 1910 in Eastern Galicia, in a traditional Jewish home. The Scheibs wandered as refugees during the First World War. In 1918, in Lvov, young Scheib witnessed a funeral procession for Jews murdered in a pogrom.
After high school, Scheib enrolled at the Rabbinical Seminary of Vienna for religious studies and the University of Vienna for secular studies. He completed his doctorate on “The Voluntarism of Eduard von Hartmann, Based on Schopenhauer,” but never took his rabbinical exams at the seminary.
Meanwhile, he attended, with his father, a protest demonstration in front of the local British Consulate following the 1929 Arab riots in the Land of Israel. The next year he read a poem by Uri Zvi Greenberg, “I’ll Tell It to a Child,” about a messiah who cannot redeem his people because they are not ready to accept redemption. Two or three years later, Scheib met Greenberg at a speech Greenberg was giving entitled “The Land of Israel Is in Flames.”
Scheib’s first job after graduation was teaching high school in Volkovisk. He also published articles in Revisionist Zionist journals and became the commander of a local Betar chapter.
Scheib joined the staff of the Teachers Seminary in Vilna in 1937, where he stayed for two years. During that time he rose in the Betar ranks to the position of regional staff officer. In 1938, at the Third Betar Conference in Warsaw, when the Revisionist leader Zeev Jabotinsky attacked the militant stance of Poland’s Betar leader Menachem Begin, Scheib spoke in Begin’s defense. The next year, when the Second World War broke out, Scheib and Begin escaped together from Warsaw. Begin was arrested by the Soviet police in the middle of a chess game with Scheib, and it was several years before they met again in British Mandatory Palestine, where Scheib was already a leader of the Lehi underground and Begin would soon commanded the Irgun. The Lehi was at that point waging a violent struggle for freedom from British rule and the Irgun would, under Begin, soon join the revolt in hopes of freeing Palestine and creating a Jewish state.
Scheib adopted several aliases while living underground, including “Sambatyon” and “Eldad.” Eldad stuck and became the name by which he is remembered. He worked in 1942 directly with Lehi founder Avraham Stern. After Stern’s killing by the British, Eldad became one of a triumvirate of Lehi commanders, serving with Natan Yellin-Mor and future prime minister Yitzhak Shamir. It was in this role where Eldad condoned the assassination of Folke Bernadotte, a UN mediator. Yellin-Mor was the diplomatic “foreign minister,” Shamir the operations man, and Eldad the ideologue. For the next six years Eldad wrote articles for various underground newspapers, some of which he edited. Eldad also wrote some of the speeches delivered in court by Lehi defendants.
Eldad was arrested by the British fleeing a Tel Aviv apartment, injured in a fall from a water pipe, and imprisoned in the Jerusalem prison in a body cast. He continued his political and philosophical writing from Cell 18 of the hospital ward at the Jerusalem Central Prison. Eventually Eldad healed enough to escape while on a visit to a dentist’s office, from which several Lehi fighters spirited him away.
During Israel’s War of Independence, Eldad was critical of Menachem Begin’s Irgun for not defending itself when its arms ship Altalena was attacked by Grün’s (David Ben-Gurion) Palmach forces, commanded by Rubitzov (Yitzhak Rabin). He was also critical of the IDF for not fighting harder to conquer Jerusalem’s Old City and critical of Lehi fighters who did not rush to fight in Jerusalem. Towards the end of the war, Eldad disguised himself as a foreign journalist in order to sneak past Israeli military roadblocks and join the battle for Jerusalem.
Eldad eventually got a job teaching Bible and Hebrew literature in an Israeli high school, until Prime Minister David Ben-Gurion intervened and had him dismissed. Ben-Gurion was afraid Eldad would imbue the students with his Lehi ideology. Eldad went to court and won, but found few people willing to hire him after Ben-Gurion had labeled him a danger to the state. Eldad turned to literary work, wrote histories of underground battles, a biography of the mayor of Ramat Gan, a newspaper-style review of Jewish history called Chronicles, a book of Bible commentary (Hegionot Mikra), weekly newspaper columns, and many more books, encyclopedia entries and other works. In 1962, Eldad was made a lecturer at the Technion in Haifa. He taught there for twenty years. In 1988, Eldad was awarded Israel’s Bialik Prize for his contributions to Israeli thought.
By the 1990s, Eldad was known as the doyen of Israeli nationalists. He died on the first day of the Hebrew month of Shevat, in January 1996. His funeral was attended by Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu, former prime minister Yitzhak Shamir and Knesset Speaker Dov Shilansky. Eldad was buried on the Mount of Olives, at the foot of the grave of his mentor and friend, Uri Zvi Greenberg.
The Israeli settlement Kfar Eldad was named after him.
Eldad did not believe that the creation of the state of Israel was the goal of Zionism. He considered the state a tool to be used in realizing the goal of Zionism, which he called Malkhut Yisrael (the Kingdom of Israel). Eldad sought what he referred to as national redemption, meaning a sovereign Jewish kingdom in the biblical borders of Israel, with all the world’s Jews living there, and the Jewish Temple rebuilt in Jerusalem. Eldad steadfastly refused to give legitimacy to any Jewish presence in the Diaspora, which he felt was doomed to extinction. Nonetheless, in his view of history, past generations of Jews in exile from the Land of Israel were not denigrated as passive sufferers but were considered creative players in history. Eldad and his journal Sulam wrote frequently about Jewish political figures who throughout history tried to bring redemption to their people, but who were stymied by geopolitical or other obstacles.
Comment by yamit82 — November 25, 2009 @ 9:21 pm
Yamit, you are a petty, pathetic narcissist in love with yourself and your opinions.
Swearing at me from a mouth distorted and ugly from rage only reveals your inability to control your temper and your narrow mindedness rendering you incapable of tolerating any views, but your own and those of people who think exactly as you do.
You should remember that ditty from childhood, since you are acting like a spoiled brat, “sticks and stones………….”.
Yamit, you need to grow up, but for now, I suggest you lie down with an ice pack on your head to reduce the swelling.
Comment by Bill Narvey — November 25, 2009 @ 9:42 pm
Yamit82 - I did not know much about Eldad senior. Due to Jewish politics and demographics at the moment, it may be too late to implement his vision, though. The most I hope for right now is a declaration of Israeli sovereignty over the entire land. True sovereinty.
I’m slightly more familiar with his son Aryeh Eldad. He seemed ideal to lead both the religious and the secular right in the last election. He invited Moshe Feiglin to lead his Hatikva party before the election but Feiglin declined. I really like him. He is an upright person.
Comment by Aline — November 25, 2009 @ 9:43 pm
It all has to do with Iran. Every one in Israel knows there is no chance negotiations will resume during the “freeze” period. Israel gave Obama a way to save face while it prepares to deal with Iran. There can be no agreement anyway with the Palestinians as long as Iran can play the spoiler. The way to peace lies through Tehran rather than through Ramallah. Right now the most important thing Israel must do is stop Iran. The Palestinians are a headache for Israel not an existential threat.
Comment by NormanF — November 25, 2009 @ 10:56 pm
I don’t like it either. Like I said the other day, this is blackmail and Israel should tell hussein obama to shove it.
Comment by Laura — November 25, 2009 @ 11:45 pm
Part of the problem is Israel’s overdependence on the United States. The Israelis must develop a series of other relationships that collectively lessen its economic/military/emotional dependence upon America.
The place to start is India, which may well become the superpower that most expect China to be. India has a vast population containing many highly educated professionals and countless low cost laborers. As the Indians wean themselves from socialism, the country will prosper greatly.
India will be the world’s greatest beneficiary of the secular bull market in gold. Indian culture prioritizes gold ownership, leading India’s central bank to make the recent huge gold purchases from the IMF that have catalyzed the recent vertical upmove in the metal. When gold hits $2000/$3000/$4000 per ounce, India will be quite wealthy.
The Indians do not have a history of anti-Semitism, and that situation may persist as long as they remain unaware of peskin.
India is a prime candidate to become a much closer technological and military ally of Israel, which over the next few years can help innoculate the Israelis from the vicissitudes of American politics. And if Obama prevails in his effort to replace American exceptionalism with American mediocrity, that will further reduce America’s hold over the Zionist Entity.
Brazil is another county on the rise, but closer relations must wait until the current anti-Semitic Chavez wannabe is replaced as its leader.
Comment by ayn reagan — November 26, 2009 @ 1:57 am
Ted, why are you so surprised or mystified by Netanyahu’s behaviour? He’s been telegraphing all his moves vis a vis Palestinian’s, Syria, Judea and Samaria, the US etc. BB is a guy who stands for nothing and everything at the same time, he’s not suitable to be a prime minister. The only role I see him being competent in is as a minister of finance or as a public speaker for the goverment, period. His motives?? Money, of course!
You guys are so outraged, why??? Feiglin (among others) has been warning israelis for an eternity of all of BB’s shortcomings in policy and content. But, who’s listening??
Right now, the only thing propping up BB is the stupidity of the Palestinians and the cowardice and self-interest of his coalition partners who will make all sorts of public pronouncements against his policy but who will nevertheless continue to support him. Pathetic!
And by the way, I’d rather have Feiglin any day of the week.
Comment by drjb — November 26, 2009 @ 4:53 am
yamit#9, re: Bibi, hope I’m not too late to catch you on this, just saw your reply to me:
About Hebron I totally agree, but that was then, & is inconsistent w/ what I see Bibi doing now, which is genius. I will explain why what I see him doing now is both biblical (the most important thing) & pragmatic. First, caution against myopia, remember the big picture at this point in time: (1) Iran & world response now & after any strike, (2) Goldstone Report & efforts to get UN Security Council & others to push for war crimes, (3) forming one world religion to heavily take side of Palestinians, (4) 2 new offices in EU w/ the new authority they bring, (5) globalization on economic & political level under guise of climate change/ Copenhagen, which will result in bolsterin the enemies of Israel.
Given these things, most urgently Iran & Goldstone, what Israel needs is time & not necessarily international support (for that would be near impossible), but at least not increased hostility…Israel needs a bit of time to do what has to be done, to get some hasbara going, not to push the undecideds over the edge re: Goldstone.
Bible says do not give up land, but when it comes to building, “there is a time for tearing down and a time for building up.”(Eccl. 3:3b) This is a total win for Bibi, b/c the message is to the non-Arab, non-Muslim world (the people on the critical fence re: Iran, Goldstone): Bibi’s taking concrete steps he does not even have to take, the Palestinians: nothing, nada. What does Bibi get: time & appearance of good faith. Now if the Palestinians were actually getting anything, anything at all, any land, for ex, then that’d be different, but they get zip. This actually is the best chance to *keep* the residences & to grow…b/c the Palis will screw it up for sure, we all know that, so Israel will look great, the Palis bad, then at the appropriate time Bibi can do what he has to do to call them on their total failure of reciprocity & take what steps he needs.
This was a courageous move on Bibi’s part. He would be misunderstood, but if you look at the total picture, it’s very wise, they get zero & know it, the world sees good faith & tangible action while waiting for some token of reciprocity on Pali part, which of course they never will offer. Meanwhile, Bibi reaffirmed that Jerusalem never will be on the table, another move that was absolutely necessary to say as the interfaith movement is rushing ahead with that & who knows what was in the secret deal w/ the Vatican & Arab League.
Comment by soren — November 27, 2009 @ 4:15 pm
Soren I will think first on what you have said and offer a reply later. Thanks
Comment by yamit82 — November 27, 2009 @ 4:57 pm
Soren I believe you are naively giving BB too much credit. He may be a weasel but is a lousy Liar. He has maintained a freeze in all but declaration from the day he took office, before specific demands from Obama and before Goldstone. BB’s policy to date is premeditated, that’s why he took Barak into the Government gave him inordinate responsibilities and power not commensurate with labors importance or political strength ( last poll gave Labor 6 seats if elections held today). He could have buried Labor for good by keeping them in the opposition.
The Bible doesn’t say don’t give up Land it says to take possession and settle the Land.
You shall clear out the Land and settle in it, for I have given you the Land to occupy it.
Rashi commentary:
And you shall clear out the Land: You shall vacate it of its inhabitants, and then you shall“settle in it.” Only then will you be able to survive there, but if you do not do this, you will be unable to survive there.
Building is inferred in the settling.
2nd principle since we were given the Land by the almighty as a gift or possession; to give any portion away is a rejection of G-d in all that entertains. It diminishes G-d in the world and in the eyes of all the gentile nations. A really big NO NO! This is why we are are commanded to war even if our enemies demand tribute of straw and barley. Over the land there can be no compromise because then G-d is diminished in the eyes of the Nations.
Expansion of settlements is the foundation of the security and salvation of Israel:
“Be of good courage, and let us be strong for our people, and for the cities of our G-d.”
Possession and sovereignty are two sides of the same coin and restricting the above is akin to relinquishing national sovereignty.
BB is not to be believed, he has already restricted building permits in Jerusalem. When he speaks of Jerusalem you have to pin him down; West Jerusalem or East Jerusalem, The extended municipal boundaries eastward in Jerusalem or only the western portions. He is a weasel. Will say anything and do anything for personal aggrandizement Personal monetary profit and above all he is a moral coward.
My take is that in a choice between standing firm against Nations of the World and the Jews in Y @ S BB chose to contend with the Jews like Sharon did.
This time may produce different results. I hope this time they fight. Even and including a civil war.
Comment by yamit82 — December 1, 2009 @ 9:44 pm