The freeze deal is now clear. How did Beilin know?
By Ted Belman
When Netanyahu came to into office he continued the freeze that Olmert had started in August 2008 and came under withering pressure from Obama for more. Why Olmert agreed to it in the first place has never been discussed.
Last summer it appeared that the quid pro quo would be normalization steps by Arab countries. Nothing came of it. Then Netanyahu and Obama counted on getting Abbas to accept the freeze when they were all in New York. Abbas didn’t bite.
Finally, Netanyahu decided to announce the freeze unilaterally which he did on Wednesday.
Surely he doesn’t want endless negotiations with no hope of progress. So one must conclude that its all about gaining time to deal with Iran.
Herb Keinon in his article Gaining Grace?
points out that Yossi Beilin knew about this 9 days ago,
-
Yossi Beilin - former MK, minister and one of the architects of the Oslo accords - was downright prophetic nine days ago when he accepted a French honor from visiting French Foreign Minister Bernard Kouchner.
Within a few days, Prime Minister Binyamin Netanyahu will declare a 10-month moratorium on settlement construction that would not include Jerusalem and would make exceptions for “normal life” in the settlements, Beilin said in his remarks, breaking the formula of banal acceptance speeches and getting the reporters in the audience to take up their pens.
The US, Beilin continued, would say that this was not everything they had asked and hoped for, but that it was enough to resume Israeli-Palestinian negotiations. And the Palestinians, Beilin prophesized, would reject the deal.
Beilin never revealed his sources, but within a week, his scenario played itself out.
How did he know? Everything unfolded as he foresaw with one exception.
-
Beilin, in short, went three for three in his predictions. But then he made a fourth prediction, that the Palestinian refusal to resume negotiations under these terms would create a “dangerous vacuum” that would trigger a chain of events that could very well lead to the collapse of the Palestinian Authority.
Keinon maintains that
-
The prime objective of his settlement-start moratorium was to get the burden of being blamed for stalling the diplomatic process off of Israel’s back.
Netanyahu keeps repeating that the ball is now in Abbas’ court.
-
BUT WHAT is even more important from Netanyahu’s point of view is that the Americans - as evidenced by Mitchell’s statement - don’t see the step as hollow.
The US realizes that it hadn’t delivered on normalization or the end of incitement so it took what it could get from Netanyahu. It had no choice.
-
The moratorium was never meant to be a unilateral step, but ended up being one because no one moved on the other side. The expectation is that this will now be appreciated in Washington.
Netanyahu managed to convince
-
right-wing ministers like Bennie Begin, Moshe Ya’alon and Avigdor Lieberman to vote for the moratorium, something done because - one government source said - they had sat in the discussions over the last few months and seen what was initially demanded, what was agreed upon, and the whole array of pressures coming to bear on Netanyahu and the country.
Keinon believes that Netanyahu’s moves in accepting a Palestinian State, all be it with conditions, and announcing a freeze, although limited, are cut from the same cloth.
-
Netanyahu is now gambling that as a result of what he gave, the world will press the Palestinians to take the gestures and run with them. If the Palestinians don’t do so, Netanyahu seems to be assuming, it will be clear who will get the blame.
But considering recent history, that seems a somewhat risky assumption. Back in 2000, at Camp David and then at Taba, then-prime minister Ehud Barak justified his generous offer to the Palestinians by saying that if they accepted it, there would be peace, and if not, then the world would see who should be blamed for the failure and what came after.
I agree with Keinon when he writes
-
Wednesday’s move may have bought Netanyahu some temporary grace in Washington and the international community, but that grace - judging by other unilateral steps Israel has taken in the past - may prove fleeting. Netanyahu will only get temporary relief from pressure.
It would appear that the revelations in the Yediot Aronot’s Thursday article which Caroline Glick referred to in Bibi’s Bad Week,may not have any import.
Now we will have to wait to see if Beilin’s fourth prediction comes true.
Keinon makes no mention of any agreement on Iran.
But Alex Fishman does in Saving Abbas published Thursday. He also said its about avoiding Beilin’s fourth prediction.
-
The construction freeze in the settlements is yet another oxygen tank en route to reviving the “diplomatic horizon,” without which we shall see the Palestinian Authority increasingly disintegrating.
This is not about getting sentimental with Abbas or a sudden love story between the Israeli government and the diplomatic process. Even the tough “ideologists” within the cabinet realized Wednesday that there is no other choice, and that every effort must be made in order to preserve regional stability, even for a limited time. The Palestinian Authority must not collapse.
Abbas has turned into a key player; the stability of his regime maintains the calm and stability everyone needs until matters clear up on the Iranian front. Even those who object to making concessions to the Palestinians realize that we have to buy time. And buying time means maintaining the diplomatic process vis-à-vis the PA.
Hence, when officials around here debate the Gilad Shalit question, they simultaneously discuss the question of how to minimize the damage to be caused to Abbas and the PA in the wake of the mass release of prominent Hamas terrorists.
Even before the Shalit deal, Israeli officials estimated that the PA will not survive without a diplomatic horizon. Abbas would eventually give up and quit, and this will mark the beginning of disintegration that may lead to anarchy and to a third Intifada, which Fatah heads are already characterizing as a “popular struggle.”
A popular struggle, for the benefit of those who may have forgotten, may indeed start with stone-throwing, but will end with fire. And who needs fire on the eve of fateful decisions on Iran.
And Israel must prove she is serious about enforcing the freeze.
Barry Rubin has speculated that Clinton’s statement on the parameters for a peace deal was negotiated as part of the moratorium.
-
This raises a fascinating question: Was it coordinated with the Netanyahu government as part of the freeze deal? If so, the Netanyahu government has certainly proved itself to be flexible and peace-oriented. Certainly, there isn’t everything Israel wants in this statement yet it does encompass some important points taken out of the cabinet’s position on peace arrangements.
This makes eminent sense. Remember that Netanyahu once remarked that he wants to know where he is going while negotiating short term deals. Aslo his BESA speech setting out Israel’s conditions that must be present in a peace deal were part of these negotiations. Clinton’s statement gave him what he demanded except she was silent on Jerusalem.
Obama made it clear to the Israelis in Washington that he is willing to try this move in order to promote the revival of talks, but expects much more later on.
Evidently then there are mutual commitments.
For those who already read the article , I added some more insights.
Comment by Ted Belman — November 28, 2009 @ 6:04 pm
I posted this item a month ago, can’t remember what thread!
Oct.23
Anti-Israeli coup brewing in Obama administration
Yossi Beilin, the second-smartest Israeli politician after Peres, and unbelievably filthy leftist scum, called on Obama’s envoy Mitchell to step down.
Mitchell is a close acquaintance of Beilin’s. Though Beilin veiled his call in the most polite terms of preserving Mitchell’s integrity, which has been shattered by the recalcitrant Netanyahu government, the Peres-Beilin camp is clearly dissatisfied by Mitchell’s relatively sensible approach.
Just as he did in Northern Ireland, Mitchell refrains from pushing, but rather lends himself to both sides so that their offers come ostensibly from America. This approach worked well in Northern Ireland, where the parties rejected any offers that came from their opponents but were willing to accept the same offers once they came from America, a neutral party.
When Beilin announced his intention to retire from politics, we immediately suspected that Peres was cooking another Oslo agreement. Then, too, Beilin worked behind the scenes. Peres no longer controls the government as he did at the time of the Oslo accords, and cannot provide his poodle with a sinecure free from Netanyahu’s influence.
Beilin’s involvement makes sense of Israel’s secret negotiations track with the Palestinians.
____________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
Nov.8:Peres props his puppet,
The Israeli president pleaded with Abbas to stay in office.
Peres is Abbas’ longtime friend. He nurtured Abbas from a Tunisian nobody into the world’s most prominent peacemaker. Before the Oslo Accords, Peres established illegal contacts with Abbas. His puddle Yossi Beilin negotiated with Abbas in Cairo, promising Palestinian votes for Rabin in return for abandoning East Jerusalem to the PLO. After Arafat’s death, Peres brought Abbas to power.
But Peres already supports jailed terrorist Marwan Barghouti as a replacement for Abbas.
____________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
Beilin is right: The smartest scum in Israeli politics explained the massive Gilo expansion. According to Beilin, the construction permits serve to soothe the right-wingers in the days before Netanyahu announces a ten-month partial moratorium on construction in the settlements. Beilin correctly predicts that both Arabs and Americans will reject a partial solution, and suggests instead a complete three-month freeze, during which intense negotiations must take place.
Either way there will be no peace, but Beilin’s plan is shorter and makes better PR for Israel.
18 November 2009
______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
Fayad supports terrorism: The iconic Palestinian moderate condemned Israel for refusing to release two arch-terrorists: Tanzim leader Marwan Bargouti and PLFP leader Ahmed Saadat. Both terrorist group continue fighting Jewish civilians.
Fayad remains undeterred by the fact that Israel pays his salary and fills his budget through tax transfers.
After Israel refused to release Barghouti, the allegedly moderate terrorist took off the mask and called on the Palestinians to kidnap more Israeli soldiers.
Fayad also voiced dissatisfaction with Israel for stalling the peace process by refusing to abandon Jerusalem to Palestinians. In the same way, Nazis accused Czechoslovakia and Poland of torpedoing German peace efforts by refusing to cede Sudetenland and Danzig.
Comment by yamit82 — November 28, 2009 @ 6:22 pm
What world does Bibi live in?
Comment by Laura — November 28, 2009 @ 8:20 pm
Ted,
According to the sense of logic prsented here there is only one possible outcome in the Middle East and that is the one that will be dictated by the USA. Israel (i.e. Netanyahu) will have to bend over backwards to make that outcome a reality, and it will happen by hook or by crook, irrespective of the wishes of the general israeli public. Even if Netanyahu were to put up a fight, the Left elite of Israel (Peres, Beilin, etc) would further undermine him to ensure that the US desired outcome materializes, even if at the cost of cutting the country in half and returning it to the “Auschwitz borders”, while at the same time the US wouldn’t guarantee its survival.
According to this logic, we’re just witnessing a charade, a game, where the end of the story is known to all, not just Beilin. If this is so, then why bother playing the game?
No, I believe something different is happening here. Feiglin has discussed it at great length and also predicted the settlement freeze and the negotiations for Shalit’s release and the negotiations with Syria. One one hand Israel (i.e. the government) has lost its compass, on the other, Israeli leaders are not equipped to deal with the current situations. A new paradigm is needed, a Jewish paradigm. It’s not really new, it’s the same thing that maintained the Jewish people for 2000 yrs of diaspora. That’s what’s going to save Israel. We need leaders who are strong Jewishly. At this point, the only one who fits that bill and has something sensible to say about anything currently taking place in Israel is Moshe Feiglin. At what point will you give this man a break?
Comment by drjb — November 28, 2009 @ 8:23 pm
My momma always said, “Life was like a box of chocolates. You never know what you’re gonna get.”
Comment by ayn reagan — November 28, 2009 @ 9:55 pm
We need leaders who are strong Jewishly. At this point, the only one who fits that bill and has something sensible to say about anything currently taking place in Israel is Moshe Feiglin. At what point will you give this man a break?
Comment by yamit82 — November 28, 2009 @ 10:29 pm
Kislev 11, 5770, 11/28/2009
Not with my vote: An Open Letter to Bibi
http://www.israelnationalnews.com/Blogs/Blog.aspx/14#3943
It is strange to include this post in a blog about being a soldier’s mother and yet, it belongs here. I write this as an Israeli, as a Jew living in the land of Israel. The mistakes the government makes this week, will require the army’s cooperation to implement and ultimately, defend against.
An Open Letter to Bibi Netanyahu from a Former Likud Member
An Open Letter to Bibi Netanyahu from a Former Likud Member
One of the first political things I did in the early years after making aliyah more than 16 years ago, was join the Likud party. It was the party of Menachem Begin; it was the party of strength. It was a party not afraid to make peace and not afraid to wage war. It did both with pride and determination. From Menachem Begin, the torch was handed to Ariel Sharon.
Ariel Sharon was supposed to be the lion of Judea. The war hero. Arik. He visited my yishuv in those early years and like many, I went to hear him speak. He stood gazing at the Mediterranean from a hill a few minutes from my home and explained that it would be insane for Israel to pull out of Samaria (Shomron). “You don’t surrender the hills,” Sharon said that day.
I voted for Sharon, as I would have voted for Menachem Begin if I had managed to come to Israel at a younger age. With pride and determination. I gave him my vote because I believed he would uphold the vision of the Likud party – strength, honor, and an unwavering commitment to the land and people of Israel.
Sharon lied. Beyond the corruption that he and subsequent Israeli leaders have shown, Sharon committed the worst sin imaginable in political life. He betrayed his followers. He stole my vote and used it to evacuate Gush Katif. He did it with malice and cruelty, to a people who had supported him, trusted him.
I vowed then and there to quit the Likud. Not with my vote will Likud betray its supporters and the land of Israel. Not with my vote…but friends convinced me that the worst of the party had pulled themselves out into Kadima and that the Likud that remained would return to its roots. I wanted desperately to believe. I canceled my cancelation. I decided to try to believe. I listened, I hoped, I voted. One last time, I listened to the voices who spoke of party strength and vision, a commitment to the land of Israel and the future.
I believed and voted for Bibi Netanyahu as the only viable candidate to save us from worse and almost immediately after my vote, I realized that I had been wrong, they had been wrong. Bibi was not the visionary; he would bend to the Americans and international pressure. I had voted for Bibi, and received Ehud Barak, Shimon Peres. The dream of the Likud is gone - we were following Yitzhak Rabin’s road. Lost. Betrayed. Gone.
I couldn’t change my vote, but I could stop my membership. What would be done, would not be done with my name, my support. A few months ago, I called my bank and canceled my membership in the Likud. “Not with my vote,” I told my friends. Whatever Bibi Netanyahu will do, it won’t be with my support.
In the last few days, as expected, Bibi betrayed the Likud members, as surely and as completely as Ariel Sharon betrayed the residents of Gush Katif and northern Shomron. Bibi turned his back on Menachem Begin and the doctrine of strength he believed would bring Israel to peace. With pride and determination, I tell you, Bibi, you do not have my support. You do not have my vote and you do not have my faith.
We have no peace partner. You know this, you have said it enough times. But you will do this – stop building in our land, in exchange for promises of American support from Barack Hussein Obama. What a fool you are and what a fool you have made of Likud.
But this time, it was not with my support. This time, Likud veers to the left and I continue on the path that Menachem Begin and others proposed years ago. There will be peace when the Palestinians accept who we are, what we are, and where we are. Not because we pulled out of Gaza, not because we stopped building for 10 months, and not because of any other stupid and meaningless concessions you throw at their door.
All you do, as Sharon and Rabin did before you, means nothing if you can’t accept that simple fact…and more, if you lack the courage to explain it to the world. The closer you come to convincing the world that we might achieve this imagined peace you seek, the sooner bombs will start exploding in our streets. Hamas will push you back to sanctions and actions so that they can cry their tears and demand world condemnation.
And when the bombs explode…you’ll order a closure to try to prevent further attacks. Too late, as it always is, to save those murdered in cold blood, the innocents you were charged to protect. But you’ll play the game Hamas has put before you. You’ll talk the talk and impose a closure and you’ll expect the world to condemn…but they won’t. They never do. The world will condemn us again – as they did the last time, as they always do. This freeze means nothing other than your complete lack of courage.
You shame the Likud party; you shame Menachem Begin. Without doubt, Ariel Sharon and Yitzchak Rabin would take pride in what you’ve done tonight because in the end, what mattered to them, what matters to you, is what the world says, what the Americans think.
But what you haven’t done, is shame me because I disengaged from Likud. I left. I surrendered the party to you, but not the land. Perhaps in the next 10 months there will be no building in Judea and Samaria, but long before those ten months are up, the Arabs will prove you to be the fool we know you to be already.
As the old adage goes: Fool me once, shame on you – that was Ariel Sharon. Fool me twice, shame on me. You didn’t fool me, Bibi – I left Likud and in my leaving, I take my pride, my determination, and my love of the land of Israel.
There are words that become associated with people. Neville Chamberlain will forever be tied to the word “appeasement”. Ariel Sharon will be remembered for betraying his followers and you, Bibi, will be remembered for your stupidity.
Comment by yamit82 — November 28, 2009 @ 11:00 pm
“As the old adage goes: Fool me once, shame on you – that was Ariel Sharon. Fool me twice, shame on me. You didn’t fool me, Bibi – I left Likud and in my leaving, I take my pride, my determination, and my love of the land of Israel.”
Feiglin explains that only through Likud you can appeal to the entire population in Israel. Other parties like Bayt Yehudi, Ichud Leumi, Shas, UTJ, etc are too narrow in their constituency and appeal. Nothing wrong with Likud other than the lousy leader. Put Feiglin at the helm and watch this baby take off!
Comment by drjb — November 29, 2009 @ 12:21 am
I think Yamit should have fought for the Likud to return to its roots. That means electing a Jewish leadership. The national religious Zionist movement is too fragmented to ever form a government. You don’t abandon the field of battle and you never surrender!
Comment by NormanF — November 29, 2009 @ 12:33 am
drjb
Begin destroyed the ideological base upon which the Likud was based when he let Sharon and Weizman in. Sharon after getting only two mandate I thin in is Shlomzion party joined the likud and convinced Begin to accept the Liberals first forming Gahal and later the likud. Who were the new base The Mizrachim who where not very ideological but hated Labor. They are the ones who gave the likud a majority to oust Labor. From that point on the Likud became a centrist party who bent all ideology, for party favors and pork(excuse the term) being handed out by party hacks who remained loyal to the Likud for Jibs and political handouts. Dov Shilansky tried to bomb the Knesset in the fifties over the governments acceptance of reparations. He later became speaker of the Knesset.
Feiglin appeals to mainly observant Jews associated with Mercaz Ha Rav, Shas won’t support him if it isn’t in their political interest and they will do what Ovadia Yosef tells them to. Shas will never support another religious party as they are afraid they will lose their supporters. Most of the non observant in the Likud won’t go with a religious idiologue unless it can be demonstrated that he will get a majority of likud voters behind him and then win an election Feiglin won’t get the first and certainly not the second. After ten -12 years of playing follow me and not many followers all he has really done is to foster disunity within the ideological right. Thereby weakening and diminishing the rights political potential.
Israel I don’t think is ready yet for a Jewish Leader with a Kippa on his head. Even if his name is not Feiglin. You can’t be and maintain a strong ideological platform with a Big tent supermarket political party , It can’t be done.
Comment by yamit82 — November 29, 2009 @ 1:04 am
Yamit,
I agree with you that Feiglin appeals to mainly observant Jews associated with Mercaz Ha Rav, however, I think that if he were to lead the Likud, the supporters of all other religious parties would run to support him. If Rabbi Ovadia Yosef told Shas to support Likud under Bibi, how much so would he support Likud under a Jewish Leader with a Kippa on his head. The disunity of the Right is a result of Bibi having pushed Feiglin down to the 36th slot in the party (from #20), and people in the Right splitting their votes into mostly irrelevant religious parties who still support Netanyahu!
I think that given a fair shot, he can win the party leadership or at least attain a position of importance in shaping up policy. All I know at this stage is that the Likud would be much closer to its core mandate with Feiglin in it.
Prior to the last election, Feiglin was offered the leadership of one of the religious parties and he declined, precisely because he wants to appeal to a broader spectrum of voters. Likud may be a Big tent supermarket political party, but with Feiglin (or someone like him) it will keep a stong ideological platform, without an ideological platform it will be nothing.
It can be done, it must be done!
Comment by drjb — November 29, 2009 @ 1:45 am
Neville Chamberlain was flexible and peace-oriented.
Israel needs a leader who is resolute and survival-oriented.
Netanyahu is making Olmert look good by comparison, which previously seemed impossible.
This would be a timely moment for a patriotic rogue faction of Mossad to assassinate Abbas, thereby interrupting the surrender process with an outbreak of much welcome chaos.
Comment by ayn reagan — November 29, 2009 @ 2:52 am
Israel will attempt to accomplish the same result by releasing Marwan Barghouty, for Shalit. Obama will applaud and the Israeli Left will go bananas in orgasmic delight. He will bring Hamas back into the fold and replace Arafat as the recognized leader of all the Arabs who call themselves Palis.
Bibi will then like Sharon become the darling of the Left, be welcome in the W H once again, be written up in every Op Ed as a Pragmatic and wise Israeli leader who only seeks Peace and conflict resolution. A guy we can do business with etc… Bygones will become bygones, Thus in one fell swoop BB destroys the right opposition moves the flexible pragmatists to his corner and we will continue in all its meanings that wonderful process known as Oslo. Peres will even get to see his creation a Palis State if he doesn’t kick the bucket first before seeing his vision of the promised land come into existence.
In case someone missed it, since BB took office, Peres has become the de-facto Israeli FM. That alone should tell us where all this is heading and what we should expect.
Comment by yamit82 — November 29, 2009 @ 11:30 am
Who is the dummy reporter that wrote this?
Manhigut Yehudit has never hesitated in explaining why voting for the Likud is the only way to weed out the foreign growth which controls the party reins. Even Ketzeleh, leader of the impotent National Union opposition part is now saying what Moshe Feiglin has been saying all along, the difference being that Ketzeleh offers no rational strategy on how to do this from the bleachers.
That’s it. Form yet another rinky-dinky opposition party. Yeh. Worked great so far, hasn’t it?
Comment by Shy Guy — November 29, 2009 @ 12:15 pm
http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/Flash.aspx/175422
Feiglin: “Freeze a Completely Racist Law”
Reported: 22:06 PM - Nov/28/09
Follow Israel news briefs on Twitter and Facebook
(IsraelNN.com) At a meeting of Likud activists in Ra’anana Saturday night, Moshe Feiglin of the Likud party’s Jewish Leadership faction blasted Prime Minister Netanyahu and the government’s construction freeze for Jewish residents of Judea and Samaria, calling the policy a “completely racist law.” Feiglin further told activists not to feel deceived by the prime minister because the “writing was on the wall” but did not explain why he urged voters to support Netanyahu’s Likud over more nationalist parties in last year’s national elections.
Arutz 7 conspiracy?
Comment by yamit82 — November 29, 2009 @ 2:00 pm
That is the news brief. In the more detailed item, that comment does not appear.
I have found INN/A7 to be fair in correcting their articles when an inaccuracy or false assumption is brought to their attention.
Comment by Shy Guy — November 29, 2009 @ 2:55 pm
Read your message Boker Tov to Katzeleh, In theory you always had a good case but in reality it won’t work. Most secular and traditional Jews and Likudniks won’t support anyone who they don’t believe will be a winner. Feiglin has not demonstratd the Charisma and leadership required of a national party and national leader. Nobody I can think of believes BB, trusts or likes him but in politics winning is the name of the game and Moshe is far from projecting an image of a winner. It matters little to most Israelis if Feiglins ideas are the correct ideas otherwise few would have voted for Kadima under Sharon.
Feiglin is now trapped in his own theory. He can’t oppose BB too strongly without undercutting passive support and goodwill among likudiks he has managed to gain till now. Even if you oppose BB in what he has done, party activists or enough of them would rally behind BB, as for now he is their only political support line. I don’t know if even Uzi Landau were he still in the Likud would have voted no in the cabinet or voiced public opposition to BB as he did when in another party. Being in opposition allows the freedom to condemn and to act in ways a member of a sitting government coalition can’t do.
We saw what BB did to Feiglin in the primaries and we also saw what Feiglin didn’t do afterwards. Nothing! so when you throw terms like impotent around look at where Feiglin is today and what Feiglin aligned with two other parties could have?
There are enough non observant national patriots that would support a most religious coalition of intent if the message is one that will resonate with them and the leadership is popular and largely charismatic. Even under Hammer the NRP had at one time 11 mandates 3-4 of then non religious because there was a combination of message and attractive leadership. I like Feiglin, I agree with most of his idea but I also believe he is not the leader we are seeking in fact I question his leadership ability in fact. after more than ten years he is static and spinning his wheels.
A strong Nationalist camp would take many likudniks from the likud and even Kadima, force Shas and the Haredim to pay attention if not support, but who know they might at least the young voters.
Comment by yamit82 — November 29, 2009 @ 3:12 pm
Then let’s keep on stewing.
Comment by Shy Guy — November 29, 2009 @ 3:31 pm
The Israeli Left will be truly orgasmic only when dying amongst the rubble following the nuclear destruction of Israel.
When Jewish liberals can finally regain their cherished status as pitiful helpless victims, and they can revel in the blood of their murdered relatives, then they will finally be satisfied.
As much as the Muslims hate Jews, they can never hate Jews as much as Peres and his fellow travelers hate Jews.
It is a singular phenomenon in the human experience, which I assume is the psychotic outgrowth of having been pariahs for millennia.
Whatever the reason, liberal Jews are uniquely pathetic, and in their fanatical desire to destroy themselves they will destroy the rest of us.
The problem is that it appears the disease of liberalism is ubiquitous amongst Israeli Jews.
Be it Likud or Kadima or Labor, they are all absolutely determined to capitulate to the Jew killers.
How virtuous these moral Jews are, sacrificing the lives of their children in the futile pursuit of seeking international acceptance.
And how sad for the anti-Semites that they will not be able to claim credit following the extinction of the Jewish people.
That demise is being self-administered.
Comment by ayn reagan — November 29, 2009 @ 6:02 pm
ayn Reagan:
Unlike the chocolates in the box, which is hidden, the Israeli-American relationship was always transparent
and clearly coherent to anyone who took the time to read up on its ramifications. Israel has always received America’s full support as long as Israel accepted the notion that America (as Israel’s sponsor) has an important voice in its foreign policy. Particularly how Israel dealt with the Palestinians. Nothing comes free of cost in this world and Israel’s leadership is fully aware of this fact. It matters little if Feiglin , Bibi, or Olmert is at the helm. Those are the rules of the game which states that America’s influence will prevail.
And where does the role of Hashem fit into this equation. Let me cite a personal hypothetical scenareo.
In this situation let us say that you ayn is struck down by a serious medical condition and you are rushed into the emergency ward of your closest hospital.
What would you rather, that the attending doctors immediately.
a) recite the Mi Shebarakh
b) commence emergency life saving medical procedures.
Hope you don’t think that I’m being too smarky, but it is a question worth pondering.
Comment by h peskin — November 29, 2009 @ 6:08 pm
Well you have lifted my spirits. We exist in a manic depressive biosphere. A condensed world where each word uttered by (X) illicit reactions of Doom and Gloom by (Y). We have been living with this Psychological Boom and Bust psychodrama so long that most of us have become somewhat inured. Like a Low pain: tooth or headache, after awhile the pain threshold rises and we accept the pain as normal and as a part of us.
It ain’t over till it over or when that fat Lady begins to sing.
Comment by yamit82 — November 29, 2009 @ 6:17 pm
I know what I would choose if it were Peskin in need of life saving medical procedures.
Do you want to hear?
Comment by yamit82 — November 29, 2009 @ 6:26 pm
This aptly describes peskin.
Comment by Laura — November 29, 2009 @ 7:01 pm
Laura:
Why not go the whole nine yards.Peres,the Israeli and North American Jewish liberal/left conspirators are Nazis incarnate, but worse, far worse. The Nazis were content to destroy a third of world Jewry, the new liberal -Nazis Heebs will not rest until they see the totality of the Jewish world completely consumed in a nuclear heap.
And Laura will say “Did I not warn you, that will inevitably occur?” Just check your Mayan calendar.
Comment by h peskin — November 29, 2009 @ 7:27 pm
Yamit
In response to your interminable ego boosting, self important posts my only comment is,
Comment by h peskin — November 29, 2009 @ 7:35 pm
Peskin? What’s That?:
BB wants Barak and labor more than Yehudah and Shomron.
He also wants to get even with the ideological right who brought him down in (99). BB like Barak have a paranoiac streak a mile wide and are vengeful. Remember BB and Barak go back a long way, BB served with and under Barak in Saaert Matcal, Barak was a good friend to BB’s Brother Yoni and was involved in BB’s first wifes divorce, as a adviser confident to BB.
In many ways their lives and careers mirror each others. BB wants Barak and Barak needs Labor in the coalition otherwise BB couldn’t justify keeping him in as DM.
Kissinger said “Israel has no foreign policy only domestic ones” In that vain look what the immediate affect of BB’s latest moves. All of these moves were meant to strengthen Ehud Barak whose position as Leader of Labor Party: (6) mandates if elections were held today. Labor convened their central committee this afternoon and Barak made his case for staying in the coaition, citing how labor undeer him got BB to effect their agenda. Barak is taking the credit for BB’s latest moves which seem to have Strengthened Baraks position in Labor and the Coalition in general.
I have said more often than I can count for every move our leaders make first look for domestic causes and reasons. Israel knows how to say no, even to America. All of Israels leaders use the fig leaf of American Pressure first and foremost for internal political exigencies. That is not to say that America isn’t applying pressures but Israels leaders welcome such pressure to push through unpopular agendas mostly within their own political camps.
Problem with Peskin: all that he knows and believes comes from rags like the NYT. The Liberals Bible,also known as: holy shit writ!
Comment by yamit82 — November 29, 2009 @ 7:44 pm
The American Left has the more classic agenda: get votes to gain and control power.
Get votes by addicting the electorate to government services.
Get votes by encouraging illegal immigration in the expectation that poor citizens will vote for socialism.
Get votes the good old fashioned way via fraud.
It is the Obama agenda: addict the public to Treasury-busting free health care, then provide amnesty for illegal immigrants in the expectation they will vote Democratic. Meanwhile, have Rahm Emanuel conduct the census.
These are Obama’s top priorities. Not wealth creation or the job creation that accompanies it.
Not even national defense.
He is seeking to institutionalize liberal control of the federal government…the best interests of America be damned.
It is cut and dry: unless you believe American liberals are so obtuse that they don’t realize what they are doing, the American left is willing to damage/destroy its country in exchange for power.
Yet there are several orders of magnitude between that appalling reality and the truly degenerate agenda of Israeli liberals.
Israeli liberals are willing to have their children die at the altar of self-hatred.
That depravity is a sickness exceeding any other, as exemplified by peskin’s concept that Israel is somehow duty-bound to honor American patronage through self-destruction.
Only liberal Jews would view friendship as consisting of unilateral suicide.
Comment by ayn reagan — November 29, 2009 @ 7:44 pm
The Nazis murdered Jewish children.
Peres and his accomplices provided weapons to Palestinians who then murdered Jewish children.
His Jewish blood lust unquenched, now Peres seeks a reprise.
If Peres has his way, the six million Jews of the Holocaust will soon be joined by the six million Jews of Israel…so in the race to be evil incarnate between Nazis and liberal Jews, let’s call it a tie.
Comment by ayn reagan — November 29, 2009 @ 7:51 pm
Peskin I couldn’t help but notice you absence the last several days. I was hoping something happened to you.
Like with your two choices above in #19, Oh well prayers are seldom answered when you want them .
Comment by yamit82 — November 29, 2009 @ 7:54 pm
ayn
That depravity is a sickness exceeding any other, as exemplified by peskin’s concept that Israel is somehow duty-bound to honor American patronage through self-destruction.
____________________________________________________________________
Toots, No one forced Israel to accept all those billions from Big Daddy Yankee Doodle for so many years. They knew it came with a price. If you remember one thing in life, you will become truly educated, “THERE IS NO FREE LUNCH.” That is a universally applied dictum.Israel is not exempt.
Comment by h peskin — November 29, 2009 @ 8:04 pm
There is a Long standing Israeli Joke. Peres doesn’t care how many he bury’s as long as he is the last man standing. He is past death, How much longer can he last? for me 5 min more is too long. He and his poodle are still plotting and conniving to do us in and with Beilins` help he might succeed. His last inhuman act.
Most Nazis at least loved their dogs. Peres hates even dogs. That makes him worse than most Nazis. By the way his mother was an Arab and he is an alcoholic. I could overlook his drinking problem,but an Arab mother is unforgivable. Pers was raised in a conventin Poland and some claim he is the Vatican’s agent here in Israel. He is the one that has been trying to give our holy sites to the Vatican and have Jerusalem internationalized giving the Vatican most of the control.
Worse than the Nazis, he is Evils Trojan horse among us.
Comment by yamit82 — November 29, 2009 @ 8:15 pm
Peskin we don’t really need Americas money or yours. After Dubai, when all the costs are added up we might go into the lending business ourselves. America sure ain’t got any and what they have soon will be as worthless as you are. Did you also invest in Dubai? I hope so! I really do! TOOTSIE
Comment by yamit82 — November 29, 2009 @ 8:20 pm
ayn: My little kosher Ketzele- I could not help noticing that you neatly sidestepped answering my multiple choice question in post 19.
What is it, are you still pondering? I know that questions such as mine are deeply disturbing to the messianic Holy Rollers, who presume to speak on behalf of HASHEM.
Take your time Katzele.
Comment by h peskin — November 29, 2009 @ 8:28 pm
Yamit, I need a link on the Peres/convent/Arab mother stuff. I’m googling up empty.
Comment by Shy Guy — November 29, 2009 @ 8:32 pm
Yamit:
If you don’t need American money, or military support,or diplomatic support or German and Austrian reparation money ,or half of all diasporo federation money, and all the endowments to Israeli universities and hospitals (as worthy as that may be) and the Israeli Bond money, why do you continue to stick your pishkes in our faces.
YAMIT-MY MISSION IN LIFE IS TO HAVE YOU GROVEL AND BEG FOR MERCY. IF THERE EVER WAS A LAD THAT DESERVED TO BE MADE TO GROVEL, YOU ARE JUST SUCH A LAD.
Comment by h peskin — November 29, 2009 @ 8:43 pm
email
Comment by Ted Belman — November 29, 2009 @ 8:47 pm
Shy:
Let me enlighten you. Peres is the product of a mixed marriage. His father was an S.S. guard who fled Germany at the end of the second war and settled in Palestine. His mother was a Jewess who converted to the Muslim faith and had the distinction of being the first female suicide bomber to die in a Jerusalem attack on a bakery.Aside from these minor irregularities, his family tree is impeccable.
Comment by h peskin — November 29, 2009 @ 8:52 pm
ayne: Since you might be somewhat discombobulated, I shall repeat my post 19.
See if you can come up with a satisfactory reply.Or any reply.
Comment by h peskin — November 29, 2009 @ 9:05 pm
http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1083076.html
Shimon Peres And His European Nazi Pals
http://www.rense.com/general24/nz.htm
Comment by yamit82 — November 29, 2009 @ 9:13 pm
Just let me die.
I will be waiting for you in hell.
Comment by ayn reagan — November 29, 2009 @ 9:19 pm
Now how do you intend to do that tootsie? Real Men could not or ever make me grovel and certainly a pansy fagot like you could only dream and fantasize. To make me beg and grovel you would have to morph into a man. That’s impossible. Your speed is attacking women. On this site our women are more than a match for you Tootsie.
As a matter of fact they are more than a match for me as well LOL
Comment by yamit82 — November 29, 2009 @ 9:26 pm
So you and Shimon must be, like, first cousins?
1. That doesn’t answer my question, unless you meant you were not to be taken literally.
2. I beg of you never to link to hate sites such as Rense. I never expected that of you.
Comment by Shy Guy — November 29, 2009 @ 9:43 pm
Do you suppose it’s true that a tailor in Galicia who saw the demand for heavy winter coats suddenly rise predicted WW I? I think the argument makes about as much sense as all your punditry. Let’s keep it simple. Oslo was a failure. 2000 Jews are dead because of it. Obama is not your friend, no matter how much you love America. There will never be a two state solution because what the Arabs want is the death of Israel and meeting them half way is suicidal. An Israeli attack on Iran is very, very risky and can only be undertaken as a last resort, but there is no other way to stop Iran’s nuclear weapons program, so it will probably happen.
Any attack on Iran must be coordinated with attacks on Hamas and Hezbollah, who will use all their weapons against Israel, on behalf of Iran. Israel must repudiate Oslo immediately,and nationalize Judea and Samaria, at least the sections they now control. They must destroy Hamas, if not Hezbollah as well, and most important, they must ignore the wave of UN sanctions that will follow. National defense is very personal. Only Israelis can do it.
Comment by Fred — November 29, 2009 @ 9:47 pm
I don’t know rense/ actually never looked at the site, just the post of Chamish. I got a link to Chamish/Peres and thats what I posted not that I give Chamish a lot of credit but if you have the time and inclination to check some of his so called facts you will be surprised by how accurate some are. Now his conclusions may be off the wall but then again I can’t say. I know my late friend Adir Zik, put a lot of store in Chamish especially with Peres and Rabin’s assignation and Avishai Raviv connection to smearing the religious right. Zik was right and events proved him so. The Vatican connection seems plausible.
Peres never returned the 300 Grand he got and was not prosecuted due to technicality. Arab Mother story was a rumor spread by Likud in 77 elections I think. Was widely believed and it took many years for Peres to out live it’s political bite.
I was never into conspiracy theories but there are too many coincidences to just discount the possibility. It seems awfully strange that every government we have right or left pursues essentially the same game plan and we know they don’t have to if they didn’t want to. Looks to me some are under threat personally.
Read Chamishes disclosures on Sharon and Ben Eliezer, The Peres Pece institute and the Norwegians, Italians and the Vatican.
In a small country like ours the keeper of secrets has power. The head of Shabak is more powerful than J Edgar ever was.
Comment by yamit82 — November 29, 2009 @ 10:18 pm
I was thinking of a one liner retort and it hit me!
MISSION IMPOSSIBLE
Comment by yamit82 — November 29, 2009 @ 10:25 pm
Peskin:
Somehow you are caught in a very outdated time warp and clearly are not up to date on anything for example:
Central bank Governor Stanley Fischer began currency purchases in March 2008 in a bid to shore up reserves, weaken the shekel and help exports, which make up almost half of the country’s gross domestic product. Foreign currency reserves more than doubled during the buying spree to a record $61.2 billion.
Fischer’s currency purchases may spur inflation and damage the bank’s credibility, the Organization for Economic Cooperation and Development said last week.
“It’s a bit of a stretch to say the intervention damages the credibility of the central bank,” said Anne. “The bank has managed the crisis quite well. Still, a central bank ultimately will not be able to sustain intervention forever. At some point they will have to give out indeed.”
Bank of America-Merrill Lynch estimates the shekel, which doesn’t trade on Sundays, will buy and sell at 3.4 per dollar by the end of 2010. The currency has dropped 0.8 percent in the fourth quarter.
Need a loan? What America gives is packet money for us today and if America has any leverage over us it isn’t money.
Hows your investment in Abu Dabai doing?
Comment by yamit82 — November 29, 2009 @ 11:30 pm
No one forced Israel to accept all those billions from Big Daddy Yankee Doodle for so many years. They knew it came with a price. If you remember one thing in life, you will become truly educated, “THERE IS NO FREE LUNCH.” That is a universally applied dictum.Israel is not exempt.
Peskin:
Somehow you are caught in a very outdated time warp and clearly are not up to date on anything for example:
Central bank Governor Stanley Fischer began currency purchases in March 2008 in a bid to shore up reserves, weaken the shekel and help exports, which make up almost half of the country’s gross domestic product. Foreign currency reserves more than doubled during the buying spree to a record $61.2 billion.
Fischer’s currency purchases may spur inflation and damage the bank’s credibility, the Organization for Economic Cooperation and Development said last week.
“It’s a bit of a stretch to say the intervention damages the credibility of the central bank,” said Anne. “The bank has managed the crisis quite well. Still, a central bank ultimately will not be able to sustain intervention forever. At some point they will have to give out indeed.”
Bank of America-Merrill Lynch estimates the shekel, which doesn’t trade on Sundays, will buy and sell at 3.4 per dollar by the end of 2010. The currency has dropped 0.8 percent in the fourth quarter.
Need a loan? What America gives is packet money for us today and if America has any leverage over us it isn’t money.
How are your Abu Dabai investments doing?
Comment by yamit82 — November 29, 2009 @ 11:34 pm
Found this and don’t call me on the site I never pay attention until I find what I am looking for:
http://www.ericlee.info/1996/07/the_7_questions_larry_king_sho.html
4. Shimon Peres.
“What role do you see for former Prime Minister Shimon Peres?” was the polite way Larry King broached what is, in fact, a complex problem. After all, the Likud had targeted Peres personally for decades, with a sustained campaign of character assassination without precedent in Israeli politics. (Persistent rumors about Peres’ “Arab mother” were only one small part of the campaign.) But that’s history. The other side of the question would have to be, was Netanyahu bluffing when he talked — right up until the end of the campaign — about inviting Labor into the government?
Comment by yamit82 — November 30, 2009 @ 12:13 am
I’m really tired of this constant refrain about America “giving” money to Israel. Asshole, this money is loaned to Israel with the condition that Israel buys military hardware from America. It’s a quid pro quo. Furthermore it represents only 1% of Israel’s GDP. I do however think Israel would be better off not receiving the loans. Obviously there is a free lunch for the arabs who call themselves “palestinians” who in fact receive handouts with no strings attached. Why are they exempt?
Comment by Laura — November 30, 2009 @ 1:45 am
Taxed for living:
http://sultanknish.blogspot.com/2009/11/taxed-for-living.html
Comment by Laura — November 30, 2009 @ 2:04 am
laura:
If you were to read my comment more closely you would have noted that I included a lot more than America’s cash remittances.
And why did you find it necessary to include the word “asshole” in your post?. Was it a word you habitually use in your domestic spats with your spouse or whomever or whatever you live with? or is it just the usual fishwife expressions?
Comment by h peskin — November 30, 2009 @ 3:24 am
laura:
I’m really tired of this constant refrain about America “giving” money to Israel. Asshole, this money is loaned to Israel with the condition that Israel buys military hardware from America
If you were to read my comment more closely you weould have noted that I inluded a lot more than America’s cash remittances.
or military support,or diplomatic support or German and Austrian reparation money ,or half of all diasporo federation money, and all the endowments to Israeli universities and hospitals (as worthy as that may be) and the Israeli Bond money, why do you continue to stick your pishkes in our faces.
And why did you find it necessary to include the word “a—-le in your post. Was it a word you habitually use in your domestic spats with your spouse or whomever or whatever you live with? or is it just the usual fishwife expressions?
Comment by h peskin — November 30, 2009 @ 3:28 am
email rec’d
Comment by Ted Belman — November 30, 2009 @ 5:13 am
You deserve to be called much worse. Of course you didn’t address the actual handouts we give to the terrorist “palestinian” muslim scum. But what is even worse than the muslim terrorist scum are the liberal treasonous scum like yourself throughout the west who aid and abet them.
Comment by Laura — November 30, 2009 @ 6:07 am
Israel has emerged as one of the top countries in science, technology and medicine, it has become an economic miracle based on entrepreneurship. It doesn’t need charity to sustain itself contrary to what you proclaim, peskin.
And once again why is there no pressure placed on the “palestinians” considering they are the world’s largest welfare recipients, with much of that money coming from American taxpayers?
Comment by Laura — November 30, 2009 @ 6:26 am
Strange. Everybody else knows.
Comment by Shy Guy — November 30, 2009 @ 3:41 pm
Strange
I can play straight-man and feed you lines all day.
Comment by yamit82 — November 30, 2009 @ 4:13 pm
I think this is more like Laura envisioned
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JFysaBK2it4
Comment by yamit82 — November 30, 2009 @ 4:47 pm
I HAVE REMOVED ALL REFERENCES TO PESKIN’S WIFE.
I WON’T STAND FOR IT.
Comment by Ted Belman — November 30, 2009 @ 6:40 pm