Patriotism and exceptionalism
By Ted Belman
In the past week, both McCain and Palin have defended patriotism and American exceptionalism both concepts that the Democrats deride. It doesn’t get more basic than that.
Joe Biden challenged rich Americans to be more patriotic by paying more taxes. Both McCain and Palin took him to task for his remarks. For them, equating patriotism with willingness to pay more taxes, was a non starter.
In the second part of Hannity’s interview of Gov Palin, she talked about her son who is off to Iraq
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PALIN: He did. He was telling me, mom, just, you know, it’s going to be OK, and I’ve chosen to do this, and you know, I’m like, man, thank God for this voluntary military that we have with America’s finest.
These young men and women, they just make me so proud.
Compare that with the views of Cindy Shallow or whaever her name is.
Hannity went on to ask her about her faith and her passion.
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PALIN: Faith is very, very important in my life. I don’t — I don’t believe I wear it on my sleeve, and I would never try to shove it down anybody else’s throat and try to convert anybody. But just a very simple faith that is important to me. It really is my foundation.
HANNITY: Historically, modern times, who inspires you politically? Who are people that you look to as maybe people that you can gain inspiration from in tough times?
PALIN: I’m thankful that I came of age politically in the era of Ronald Reagan, in high school and college. You know, he is my inspiration. His vision of America and of the exceptionalism of our country.
I think about him every day. I think about what that Great Communicator has left our country and the rest of the world. So he — and then, his partner on a lot of the good things that went on in the world at that time, Margaret Thatcher, over the water. She, too, she was underestimated as she came into office and proved herself with her abilities, her determination. She is another one.
HANNITY: You obviously have a lot of passion. What motivates you? For example, what — what made you want to get into the political world? What made you so willing to accept this job and not blink? Where does your motivation come from?
PALIN: My love of this country. I’m one of those people, you know, I see a soldier walk through the airport and, you know, my heart does a little double-take. And I hear the Pledge of Allegiance or our national anthem, and I get a lump in my throat. And I know that that’s the majority of Americans.
Also, I am so proud, have been so proud of our country, every step of the way. We’ve made mistakes. We learn from our mistakes.
WOW. It doesn’t get clearer or simpler than that.
For Obama, who refuses to wear an American pin or place his hand on his heart while singing the national anthem, “true true patriotism, .. is speaking out on issues that are of importance to our national security.” How uninspiring is that.
Palin stands for everything the Democrats oppose.
In Israel, Israelis are having the same debate. Michael Freund recntly wrote, Reverse the process of “de-patriotization”
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In a May appearance before the Knesset Foreign Affairs and Defense Committee, he [Olmert] branded those who believe in Greater Israel as “delusional fantasists.” “Only fantasists,” he said, “can believe that in this day and age, and in the current situation, it is still possible to cling to the vision of ‘Greater Israel.’”
Not content that he had gotten his message across in May, Olmert evidently felt the need to add insult to injury once again. But this time, however, he went a step further. Because in addition to bad-mouthing the people of Israel, he also ridiculed the land itself.
Hinting at media reports that he had offered 98.1 percent of Judea and Samaria to the Palestinians, Olmert told the cabinet that “we have to ask ourselves if losing a hill here or there is worth forfeiting the chance to achieve something.”
THAT SENTENCE alone embodies all that is wrong - not only with Olmert himself, but with the entire leadership of this country. To demean Judea and Samaria, to reduce the heartland of the Jewish people to just “a hill here or there,” is to denigrate the very cradle of our existence.
It reveals the underlying weakness behind Israel’s position in the 15 years since the start of the Oslo process: The Palestinians seem to want this land more than our own leaders do. Hence, the ease with which Olmert and his colleagues are so willing to part with it.
Such sentiments reflect a sorry state of ideological fatigue, weariness of spirit and loss of resolve. More importantly, though, they indicate a failure to dream.
Every person, every nation, has its dreams. Take that away, and what is left? As the great French writer Anatole France noted a century ago, “To accomplish great things we must not only act, but also dream, not only plan but also believe.” Sadly, however, many Israelis no longer seem to understand this.
Thus the battle lines are drawn for both the USA and Israel. My money is on patriotism and exceptionalism.
American or Israeli patriotism that is of substance is a patriotism based upon a strong biblical foundation, one that firmly believes in Manifest Destiny - whether Manifest Destiny for these “Lands of the Covenant” (Artzot Habrit) promised to B’nai Menashe (Joseph isn’t Jewish!) or Manifest Destiny for the Jewish homeland of Israel (presently held in trust by Judah for all Twelve Tribes of Israel).
Manifest Destiny! Such a spiritual drive and religious motivation works wonders! Without it, our Israelite family of nations are bankrupt and without meaning and purpose, wandering in bewilderment, an easy prey for the German-Assyrian eagle that rises again.
Comment by David BenAriel — September 19, 2008 @ 7:26 pm
email rec’d
Comment by Ted Belman — September 20, 2008 @ 10:55 am
G-d bless palin and mccain. i am so inspired by these two people. yes, israel has such heroes…like eldad etc. these are the people we need in power immediately.
Comment by bugsy — September 21, 2008 @ 3:53 am
re ‘manifest destiny’. wrong! you need to get your history straight and be very careful here. this idea was a philosophy used to justify the annihilation of native americans. using the israel/usa parallel is always flawed, inaccurate and dangerous. jews are returning to our rightful, Gd given sacred ground, period. america, the great country that she is, was established through the decimation of american indians. it is a sad but true fact.
when you use your faulty analogy it opens jews up to being wrongly compared with the colonists. the colonists; however, were inspired by the torah as well as native american governance.
Comment by bugsy — September 21, 2008 @ 3:57 am
Must not take much to “inspire” you, sad to say. Obama is more “inspiring” than them but I understand Hussein is also under CFR control and none of them will be good for the United States or Israel. Both McCain and Obama would aid and abet further expulsion of Jews (rather than Arabs) from holy land in Israel. That’s why I’m voting for Chuck Baldwin for president of the United States.
Comment by David BenAriel — September 21, 2008 @ 8:47 am
Practice what you preach. Both the Bible and history testify to the plain truth of Manifest Destiny.
Was it? Who needed any justification if we truly wanted to commit genocide against those who were occupying the land before the rightful heirs arrived. Did the Americans annihilate the Beringian immigrants (so-called “Native Americans”)? No! We easily could have but we didn’t, so enough of your murderous lies against Joes (Joseph, specifically his son Menashe).
Both the Bible and history testify against your self-righteous rejection of Manifest Destiny, your blindness to Joseph’s identity. Whether or not you choose to remain in denial, both Joes and Jews are colonists, colonizing the lands God has given us, pioneers, settlers (and that’s a GOOD thing contrary to the politically correct cultists who would call good evil and evil good), especially Joseph “to the ends of the Earth.”
The Bible foretold Joseph would branch out with God’s blessing, to colonize and spread out to the far reaches of the Earth as our Great Creator ordained, and the Joes certainly have fulfilled these prophecies!
Deuteronomy 32:8
8 When the Most High divided their inheritance to the nations,
When He separated the sons of Adam [even though we're all family],
He set the boundaries of the peoples
According to the number of the children of Israel [ethnocentric Bible with its focus on the family of Jacob: everything centers around Israel, nationally, internationally].
“Joseph is a fruitful bough, even a fruitful bough by a well [water], whose branches run over the wall,” (Gen. 49:22).
“His glory is like the firstling [firstborn] of his bullock, and his horns are like the horns of an unicorn [the unicorn is in the national seal of England] with them he [Joseph] shall push the people together to the ends of the earth; and they are the ten thousands of Ephraim, and they are the thousands of Manasseh,” (Deut. 33:13-17).
The Word of God proves Joes were to push out other peoples to make way for our Israelite inheritance, even as the Jews have pushed out some Arabs (but clearly not enough) to secure the Jewish homeland. Why resist the Word and Will of God and cry for pagan Gentiles rather than praise God for blessing Joseph and Judah?
Comment by David BenAriel — September 21, 2008 @ 10:14 am
[...] Re:Patriotism and exceptionalism re ‘manifest destiny’. wrong! you need to get your history straight and be very careful here. [...]
Pingback by British Israelite and Jewish Colonists « David Ben-Ariel — September 21, 2008 @ 10:35 am
A “re’em in Hebrew is not a unicorn. There goes your stupid theology, including all the nonsense about Joseph, Ephraim and Menashe, all variants of Christian cult ideologies.
Seriously, get an education. Then, get a life.
Comment by Shy Guy — September 21, 2008 @ 10:42 am
bugsy, right you are on manifest destiny; your critic David BenAriel is an adherent of Armonstrongism (before Armstrong ditched his own heresy), which is a form of “British-Israelism,” an extreme form of replacement theology that you so rightly warn us about by your comment on manifest destiny — when non-Jews think they are Jews it affects their whole worldview, the apartheid-supporting Afrikaaners with their Dutch Reformed theology of South Africa is another example of that.
Comment by soren — September 21, 2008 @ 12:19 pm
I believe what I’m convinced of before God whether or not Judaism or professing Christianity approves. God is my Judge. I just find it rather interesting that according to Judaism an atheist or Communist is still a “Jew,” yet some Jews (members of Judaism, not necessarily from the Tribe of Judah) have the chutzpah to deny the other tribes’ inheritances and reject their legitimate claims as Joes (Joseph) or whatever ETHNIC tribe they’re from which remains true regardless of religious affiliation. This anti-Semitic attitude is represented and foretold:
Ezekiel 11:15
15Son of man, thy brethren, even thy brethren, the men of thy kindred, and all the house of Israel wholly, are they unto whom the inhabitants of Jerusalem have said, Get you far from the LORD: unto us is this land given in possession.
Thankfully, such sibling rivalry will soon be history, as Isaiah assures us:
Isaiah 11:12-13
12And he shall set up an ensign for the nations, and shall assemble the outcasts of Israel, and gather together the dispersed of Judah from the four corners of the earth. 13The envy also of Ephraim shall depart, and the adversaries of Judah shall be cut off: Ephraim [Joseph] shall not envy Judah, and Judah shall not vex Ephraim.
Israel and Judah Must Get House in Order Before King Messiah Arrives
Rashi and John Bull
Comment by David BenAriel — September 21, 2008 @ 12:26 pm
Herbert W. Armstrong never rejected the plain truth of the Bible and history for traditional religious lies of counterfeit Christianity. You don’t know what you’re talking about whether it’s about the Church of God or British Israelism.
“Armstrongism” - that’s what those captive souls steeped in the Babylonian Mystery religion of TRADITIONAL Christianity brand legitimate Christians who follow Yeshua and keep the biblical Sabbath, biblical festivals and biblical dietary laws (just like He did) rather than follow Roman wolves in sheep’s clothing with their accursed replacement theology of Sunday, pagan holidays pretending to be Christian and many other unclean doctrines and idolatrous ideas of their Gentilized Christianity.
Your woeful ignorance of both the Bible and history proves how unqualified you are to comment about “British Israelism” since clearly you don’t have a clue about the biblical difference between Joes and Jews. British Israelites are descendants of JOSEPH - we recognize the Jews are descendants of JUDAH and certainly don’t seek to replace them. That’s preposterous. We’re happy being Joes - we don’t need to be Jews! Go educate yourself and read the Bible without traditional blinders and see what’s been hidden in plain sight.
All Twelve Tribes of Israel aren’t Jewish?
Yes, the holy Scriptures that foretold the expansion of Israelite influence and inheritance to the “ends of the Earth” has definitely inspired our White Israelite peoples. Why oppose the Word and Will of God? Certainly our Jewish brethren haven’t been a great and powerful colonizing people (except for precious parts of the Holy Land of Israel they’ve liberated from Arab occupation); they haven’t received Joseph’s Birthright (they have the Scepter promise) with its unparalleled blessings of power and prosperity; but “We The People” (Am Yisrael) - who bear the name of Israel (as Joseph’s sons were bestowed and blessed by Jacob - Union Jack/Union of Jacob) - have fulfilled these wonderful prophecies. Furthermore, the South Africans are British-Israelites (Ephraim) and those of Dutch descent are from the Tribe of Zebulun.
Comment by David BenAriel — September 21, 2008 @ 12:49 pm
My bad, I actually am aware of the difference to those of your persuasion, but only after I had posted the comment and logged out thought “darn, bet that BenAriel will throw that semantic Joe vs Jew whine in my face, I should go back and change it to “Jew or Israelite” for precision”, but then when I went back the “click to edit” thingy wasn’t there and I figured it wasn’t worth it confusing the other readers who are unfamiliar with that ridiculous distinction that normal humans (who would consider a Joe also a Jew) don’t make, only nutcases like you do–and you’re not changing my dictionary, dude. But just so you know, I am aware of the whole contrived Lost Tribes of Israel teachings and the redefinition of terms that result from them.
Comment by soren — September 21, 2008 @ 3:21 pm
Ridiculous distinction? What chutzpah and blasphemy! You slander all those holy men and prophets inspired to make such distinctions. It is historically and biblically important to make this distinction between Jews and Israelites and to be careful not to blur their identities (Ezek. 44:23). After all, God has devoted four books of the Bible to do just that!
However, it is easy to perceive why those captive souls steeped in the Babylonian Mystery religion of TRADITIONAL Christianity (who follow Roman wolves in sheep’s clothing with their accursed replacement theology of Sunday, pagan holidays pretending to be Christian and many other unclean doctrines and idolatrous ideas of their Gentilized Christianity) want to remain willfully ignorant of our Hebrew roots and biblical responsibilities and keep others in the dark about it, blind to Joseph’s identity, because they’re proud and stubborn and unwilling to repent of their Gentile religious lies and tinsel traditions to return to the Faith once delivered and be restored and reconciled with our Father God, Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, and the Promised Land of Israel.
Comment by David BenAriel — September 21, 2008 @ 8:22 pm
[...] Patriotism and exceptionalism readers who are unfamiliar with that ridiculous distinction that normal humans (who would consider [...]
Pingback by Jews and Israelites « David Ben-Ariel — September 21, 2008 @ 11:22 pm
Yes.
On your part, absolutely. Sheer gall.
On the contrary. You are a 2nd class faker, following a concocted fairy tale, which makes claims that are historical and hysterical nonsense.
No it isn’t. It is a historical fact that the tribes were separated and lost at the time of the 2nd Temple’s destruction and it is a fact that the Prophets proclaim that there will be an ingathering of these lost Jews prior and during the time of redemption. But we are talking about Jews or their descendants who return to Judaism, not to the idol worship ilk like you cling to.
Yes, we’re very familiar with what is said at the end of Havdalah every Motzei Shabbat. “Havdil bein kodesh lechol, bein ohr lachosech, bein Yisrael La’Amim.”. No new-fangled gibberish of yours and Screwy Armstrong necessary.
BTW, I have no idea what you want from Ezekiel 44:23.
No He hasn’t.
The Hebrew routes of Jesus followers have been long dead because at some point they realized the stupidity of their cult, the lack of interest in their inner disputes and the worthlessness of a dead guy whose flase prophecies never came to be.
You have no Hebrew roots.
You are a violator of them, like every other worshipper of the dead Jew on a stick.
I’ll say!
Bugger off. Neither this nation nor this land is yours.
Comment by Shy Guy — September 22, 2008 @ 12:34 am
For you Jews out there, let me give you an example of what kind of sickening and dangerous cult theology, in general, the above David Hoover adheres to:
What some of you don’t know is that some of the most well known Evangelical pastors, whom many of you keep insisting we treat as friends because of the bribes they throw in our direction, are involved, mostly subvertively, in promoting this form of replacement theology. They do it by massaging Israeli Knesset member’s egos and wallets and by purchasing and renting homes and apartments and in getting such non-Jews into the country.
Read carefully and, yes, be shocked by some of the Jewish names listed but also pay attention to Joel Bell’s presence. You people have no idea what snakes we are dealing with.
Comment by Shy Guy — September 22, 2008 @ 12:46 am
Shy Guy:
You are the antisemite’s turkish delight-the stuff of the Jew Hater’s masturbation fantasy.
and A.D.L.’s worst nightmare.
Comment by h peskin — September 22, 2008 @ 1:59 am
That would make you their spokesperson.
Comment by Shy Guy — September 22, 2008 @ 2:10 am
Shy Guy: Mr Clit Itchwood, why don’t you give us all a big break and go to bed.
Comment by h peskin — September 22, 2008 @ 2:34 am
Tell me a bedtime story, Uncle Hymie!!!
Comment by Shy Guy — September 22, 2008 @ 2:43 am
Shy Guy:
You remind me of the observation I recently made about animals
Shy Guy- did I ever tell you how much I like you?
now wrap yourself in your little blanket and go to sleep.
Comment by h peskin — September 22, 2008 @ 2:57 am
Though it’s 11AM here in Jerusalem, I must admit that your witless posts do make me drowsy.
Can you post again at around 7AM eastern Canada time to help us Israelis with our afternoon naps?
Comment by Shy Guy — September 22, 2008 @ 3:00 am
This discussion string is like gossip.
The originating post was about the notions of patriotism and exceptionalism introduced by McCain into this Presidential campaign. What followed however dealt not with that subject, but quickly strayed as commenters from the get go, quickly delved into pet peeves and interests having nothing to do with the original post.
It might have been more informative had the foregoing commenter’s dealt with the subject at hand rather then their own pet peeves and issues.
Comment by Bill Narvey — September 22, 2008 @ 8:27 am
Narvey:
The Perpetrator of this comment represents a clear and iminent danger to the future of western culture and civilization. He must be stopped.
Comment by chucky — September 22, 2008 @ 5:31 pm
The Bible and history prove otherwise. Why remain in denial? Why be so anti-Semitic against Joes (descendants of Ephraim and Manasseh, sons of Joseph whose mother was Rachel not Leah), so hostile against Christian Zionists, that you chose to remain willfuly/woefully blind to Joseph’s identity?
Your “facts” fail in the light of history and the Bible:
The United Kingdom of Israel split in two during the reign of Solomon’s son, Rehoboam.
The Northern Kingdom of Israel was composed of 10 tribes, headed by the tribe of Joseph, in their new capital called Samaria.
The Southern Kingdom of Judah continued to rule from Jerusalem, with the Royal House of David presiding over them.
Both sinned against the God of Israel and were patiently warned by the prophets, but Northern Israel fell first and was deported by the Assyrians approximately 130 years before Judah was conquered by the Babylonians and the Temple destroyed (2 Kgs. 17).
The Plain Truth about the Lost Ten Tribes of Israel
They’re NOT lost Jews - they’re lost Israelites! Get it straight. It’s really not that difficult once you overcome your prejudices and submit to the plain truth of the Bible and history and let the truth set you free from traditional error and popular misunderstandings. Try it.
Any honest person can easily verify what I say is true and then wonder why you expose such unwarranted hatred for BIBLICAL truth. It doesn’t honor the Fathers to deny their differences, their unique tribal identities, expressed in their families grown great, the TWELVE Tribes of Israel.
All Twelve Tribes of Israel aren’t Jewish?
Comment by David BenAriel — September 23, 2008 @ 6:39 pm
Sad and sinful that you consider the plain truth of the Bible and history as “dangerous cult theology.”
My Jewish lawyer helped me to legally change my name from David Hoover to David Ben-Ariel in 1989 for religious reasons. It’s my prerogative. Strange you should be so disturbed about it and in denial of it. You must have never enjoyed answered prayer to understand and appreciate it.
God-Given Names
It’s misleading and dishonest to associate me with some group I’m not even a member of, just because we both understand the difference between Joseph and Judah, as the Bible makes it plain.
Anybody who wants to know my biblical/historical beliefs about the TWELVE Tribes of Israel can read what I’ve written about it - not what some group I’m not associated with has to say. Would you like me to associate you with some Jewish group you don’t belong to? Unlike you, I wouldn’t do it because I’m honest and don’t need to resort to such diversionary tactics and shameful character defamation.
Lost Tribes
Instead of feeling strangely threatened, rather insecure, Judah should praise our Great Creator God for revealing Joseph’s identity again, especially as Judaism teaches this hastens the process of redemption.
Comment by David BenAriel — September 23, 2008 @ 6:52 pm
There’s nothing exceptional about CFR McCain. Palin appears exceptional in some regards, and she is the lady who made the comments about exceptionalism, but appearances can be deceiving just like speeches. Look at Obama…
I’m voting for Chuck Baldwin - a vote not wasted on the evil twin parties of Republicans and Democrats, useful idiots for globalists and treacherous bankers.
Comment by David BenAriel — September 23, 2008 @ 6:58 pm
Sad but factual.
BTW, ! wrote “2nd Temple”. I meant “1st”. Sorry to have troubled you to post a Babylonian Exile 101 history lesson. Nothing else factual I wrote needs changing. You can repeat your fantasy umpteen times and it still won’t be true.
FYI, all the male children of Rachel, Rivka, Bilha and Zilpa, are the 12 Tribes and form the Jewish people as a whole. Joseph and his desecndants are no exceptions.
I don’t bother reading most of the links on your site or blog because they are a waste of time. I’ve stopped following links to pages claiming that Jews were dropped off by aliens from outer space, just the same.
May I suggest you shout it from the rooftops. Move a little closer to the edge. We can’t hear you. Closer. Closer. Just a little bit more…….
For the record, I didn’t say you’re a member of MIA. I was addressing other readers here to realize that similar crackpottery is not confined to one individual named David Hoover but is a widespread phenomena we Jews must urgently handle, along with all the other crap various sub-cults of the Christian belief system hurl in the path of the Jewish people, which you have no part of.
Comment by Shy Guy — September 23, 2008 @ 10:33 pm
You’re still flunking history. The Northern Israelites, capital Samaria, were taken into captivity by the Assyrians over 130 years before the Southern Kingdom of Judah, capital Jerusalem, were exiled by the Babylonians. Two separate kingdoms, composed of different tribes, and two different occasions of defeat and deportation.
Jewish people? The Jewish people are only a small part of the big family of Am YISRAEL (not Yehudah). Am Yisrael, klal Yisrael, consists of Twelve Tribes. Joseph’s mother was Rachel, Judah’s mother was Leah. They are not one and the same! Stop confusing Jews with Joes. We have our God-given differences and both the Bible and history are careful to make the distinctions some would blur.
The first time in the Bible the words “Jews” is used is when the Northern Kingdom of Israel was allied with Syria against the Jews! This is important to note since some deny these great distinctions! The Joes are not and never were Jews! They’re Joes!
The first time Jews are mentioned is when they’re at war with Israelites:
2 Kings 16:5-6
5Then Rezin king of Syria and Pekah son of Remaliah king of Israel came up to Jerusalem to war: and they [Syria and Israel allied together] besieged Ahaz [king of Judah], but could not overcome him.
6At that time Rezin king of Syria recovered Elath to Syria, and [with the Northern Kingdom of Israel's help] drave the Jews from Elath: and the Syrians came to Elath, and dwelt there unto this day.
Further proof that there are TWELVE TRIBES and not just the Jews/Judah can be found in the distinct blessings of all 12 Tribes by Jacob (Genesis 48-49) and later by Moses (Deuteronomy 32). They’re addressed to each of the 12 Tribes of Israel and not just to Judah! The Lost Ten Tribes are not Jewish.
Joseph isn’t Jewish!
The High Priest had 12 precious gemstones representing the 12 Tribes of Israel — not just one stone in his breastplate, and shouldered two stones with six tribal names on one stone and six tribal names on the other (Exodus 28).
The Promised Land of Israel was divided among the 12 Tribes of Israel, as any biblical map will clearly reveal — not just one big inheritance for Judah!
Ezekiel 47-48 reveals a future division of the Land of Israel again between all 12 Tribes. The New Jerusalem makes mention of 12 Tribes - not just Judah (Revelation 21:12).
Those who dare deny these God-given distinctions mentioned in the Bible from Genesis to Revelation pretend all 12 Tribes of Israel have been merged into the one tribe of Judah, denying the distinct biblical prophecies for each of the separate tribes.
All Twelve Tribes of Israel aren’t Jewish?
Comment by David BenAriel — September 24, 2008 @ 11:04 am
shy guy,
you’re to moral and to intelligent to sink so far and to continue a “dialogue” with this antisemitic goy “ben-ariel” and this would-be-spinoza peskin.
Comment by Tar Yag — September 24, 2008 @ 11:24 am
As Maimonides writes in his code of law, “Take the truth from whence it comes.”
Sad some Jews refuse to humble themselves before the plain truth, proving they’re just like everybody else, and often worse.
Horribly abusing the term “antisemitic” when one can’t win an argument (not that history and the Bible argue over the facts I’ve shared about the distinctions between Jews and Israelites) is pitiful and diminishes both the loser who resorts to such murderous character defamation and the term.
Comment by David BenAriel — September 24, 2008 @ 11:44 am
Better yet, the Torah states “Mi’dvar shehker tir’chak”, one must distance oneself from any matter of falsehood.
As a Torah observant Jew, I know my obligations. You David Hoover, as a goy, don’t have any such obligation. So it is perfectly permissable for you to continue with your farces and fabrications of the Torah, law, history, philosophy and theology.
One more thing: “Yesh din ve’yesh Dayan”, there is justice and there is a Judge. See if it pays. Good luck!
Comment by Shy Guy — September 24, 2008 @ 12:43 pm
One last thing, David Hoover, why are you posting all of your crap all over Israpundit? Are you lonesome over there on your website? No one paying attention to your blog? No one interseted in your twisted beliefs? Do you poop out at parties?
Comment by Shy Guy — September 24, 2008 @ 12:57 pm
Shy Guy: Stop your infernal barking at Hoover. He is entitled to express homself as he wishes.As Yamit’s poodle, (and if you keep this up), you might just be confined to the Kennel. down boy,heel, heel. Good dogee.
Comment by h peskin — September 24, 2008 @ 1:11 pm
Hyman Peskin - master of the dog and pony show!
Comment by Shy Guy — September 24, 2008 @ 1:16 pm
#34,
Really? I thought there was a no religion rule on Israpundit, that only real Jews and the wacky Sunstar are allowed to break? ‘Cuz if just anyone’s allowed to cite Bible verses, then my Christian self would like to (1) cite verses explaining the Christian Zionist take on the Abrahamic Covenant (in order to rebut the fake Jew yeshiyah), and (2) cite verses explaining why Israelites are also Jews (in order to rebut fake Jew David Hoover). Like I said, I’m Christian, so my explanation wouldn’t agree w/followers of rabbinic Judaism, but if those imposters can post their stuff, I don’t see why I can’t post mine.
Comment by soren — September 24, 2008 @ 1:28 pm
Great! All that’s missing now is a Scientologist!
As an aside:
There is no such thing as “rabbinic Judaism”.
Comment by Shy Guy — September 24, 2008 @ 1:33 pm
Shy Guy:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hyfpUcLaLf4&feature=related
Comment by philo-clitoreum — September 24, 2008 @ 2:51 pm
Shy Guy:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hyfpUcLaLf4&feature=related
Comment by philo-clitoreum — September 24, 2008 @ 3:02 pm
It might be time for some spiritual renewal, and some early pre-Yom kippur breast beating (Al chaits) for all those who have been engaging in anti Obama rumour mongering and vicious character assassination. The fact is that the chances for the incumbent party to succeed in times of steep economic downturn is dismal, at best. Mr. and Mrs Joe Sixpack will not be that concerned about what is happening in the Mid-East come election day. It will be all be about the economy, stupid.
Comment by h peskin — September 24, 2008 @ 7:07 pm
McCain is doing fine despite the liberal smear campaigns.
The LA Times\Bloomberg poll finds the same thing
Comment by Sultan Knish — September 24, 2008 @ 10:34 pm
No Peskin, it’s time for those who put their liberalism ahead of their Judaism by supporting a left wing Chicago bigot sympathetic to terrorism to do their Al Cheits, yet the very fact that their Jewish identity is subordinate to their liberalism, makes them incapable of it.
Comment by Sultan Knish — September 24, 2008 @ 10:35 pm
http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=64a_1222316791
Comment by Shy Guy — September 25, 2008 @ 12:56 am
The God of the Bible, the God of Israel, and the God of my forefather David, has blessed me with the name of Ariel. Even if I chose Ariel for myself — which I did not, I originally objected to it — there wouldn’t be any harm in that since such a practice is Biblical: “One shall say, I am the LORD’S; and another shall call himself by the name of Jacob; and another shall subscribe with his hand unto the LORD, and surname himself by the name of Israel” (Isa. 44:5).
David Ben-Ariel formerly David Hoover
Does it disturb you that the vast majority of Jews go by “Christian” names?
Comment by David BenAriel — September 25, 2008 @ 10:00 am
Speaking of patriotism and exceptionalism, something neither Democrats or Republicans honestly represent since they’re both destroying the Constitutional basis of our beloved country, these “lands of the Covenant” of Menashe ben Yosef (Artzot Habrit - Joseph isn’t Jewish), hear presidential candidate Chuck Baldwin explain why everybody who loves the United States and Israel should vote for him:
Comment by David BenAriel — September 25, 2008 @ 10:09 am
Who is not your god, Mr. Christian.
Prove it. In any case, one can be a non-Jewish descendant of Jews. It’s irrelevant.
I thought you said an Israeli lawyer suggested it to you? Or perhaps you saw it written in the clouds up in the sky one day long ago, sort of like “surrender, Dorothy”.
Next verse:
“So said the Lord, the King of Israel and his Redeemer the Lord of Hosts, “I am first and I am last, and besides Me there is no God.” (Isaiah 44:6)
Your dead Jew on a stick was a non-starter.
Further, in the same chapter:
“So said the Lord, your Redeemer, and the One Who formed you from the womb, “I am the Lord Who makes everything, Who stretched forth the heavens alone, Who spread out the earth from My power.
Who frustrates the signs of imposters, and diviners He makes mad; He turns the wise backwards, and makes their knowledge foolish.” (ibid., verse 24-25)
See that? You’re actually famous!
Yes. Retention of Jewish names is one of the reasons given for Israel having been deservant of redemption from Egypt.
Our problem is much greater than having children named Tiffany Schwartz, Ashley Ginzberg and Crucifix Finkelstein. (Thank you, Jackie Mason)! This is but a symptom.
Comment by Shy Guy — September 25, 2008 @ 10:25 am
Yes, the One revealed to Israel could not be compared to the idols of the nations, but the Kingdom-Family of God is revealed in the plural name of Elohim for those with eyes to see, who have taken off their traditional veil.
You sound awful hateful and anti-Semitic. You sure you’re not a wannabe Roman soldier?
Furthermore, I’m not a Roman Catholic with their idolatrous crucifixes or a Protestant with their idolatrous pictures, images of what some imagine “Jesus” must have looked like . I know my Redeemer lives. He is not a dead Jew on a pole, like Moses saw and foreshadowed with the serpent on the stake that folks had to look up to in order to be healed.
I’ve read that before, but to be more accurate (something you’ve failed time and again historically and biblically), their names were Hebrew - not “Jewish.” When will you ever learn?
Comment by David BenAriel — September 25, 2008 @ 10:37 am
When will you? You know nothing of Jews except your own distortions. Your spiteful Christian preaching does not matter to us at all.
Comment by Sultan Knish — September 25, 2008 @ 10:55 am
.
This grammatical, theological and historical bunk rehashed by ignorant Christians throughout the ages has long ago been refuted.
Or those who have tried googling. Here, let me help you.
Actually, I sound more like the tone of what G-d said in Deuteronomy about false prophets, such as Jesus, and their punishment for such a capital crime. The Romans had other motives. But maybe you’re right. G-d is an anti-Semite and like a Roman. Yeh.
I knew that, too, already.
At least that had some redeeming symbolic value. All you’ve got is our dead guy.
Fun with semantics, Mr. Hoover. You have nothing to teach us.
Comment by Shy Guy — September 25, 2008 @ 10:59 am
Mr. Shy Guy: One more allusion to a dead Jew on a stick on your part and I’ll suggest that you stick it…… you may finish the sentence.
Mr. Hoover we know the history of the Christian church with their bloody crusades, inquisitions and endless religious wars.
But when you read our Old Testament you are inspired by the recounting and recommendation of slavery,genocide (including oxen, and sheep), genital mutilation,and other gentle practices.
My only observation would be a plague on both your houses-parden the pun.
And the answer might be that of an agnostic’s instinctive regard and respect for his neighbour.Without a Clergyman’s hypocritical admonishments.
Comment by h peskin — September 25, 2008 @ 12:07 pm
Please check to see if you’re currently stepping on a toothpick.
Comment by Shy Guy — September 25, 2008 @ 12:17 pm
Peskin, your following words reveal your true colors as an atheistic, moral relativist and equivilencer:
You completely fail to put the Old Testament into the contextual thinking of the times.
Worse still, you imply niether Judaism nor Jews have either turned away from certain injunctions of the Old Testament or that the understanding of those laws and injunctions have evolved or have been re-interpreted to fit evolving thinking and attitudes.
You ignore Jews do not keep slaves as they did in Torah times nor does Judaism nor Jews teach or preach hatred of others because of their religion, let alone genocide.
History is replete with Christian hatred and persecution of Jews as it is of Muslim hatred and persecution of Jews. While Christians in the main have abandoned anti-semitism and spreading religion by the sword, much of the Muslim world revels in it and continue to teach, preach and act upon spreading their religion by their Islamic religion by the sword and genocide of Jews.
It is of course not that you are so ignorant Peskin, but that you are so perverse that you choose to ignore these truths and instead engage in your disingenuous analyses and make inflammatory, but basesless statements like a plague on both their houses.
Is it any wonder Peskin that so many find your views so objectionable?
Comment by Bill Narvey — September 25, 2008 @ 12:24 pm
Narvey:
You are pefectly correct. But being religious does not mean you must suspend all powers of thought. What was so very special about the biblical period that we must slavishly stick to so many practices of those times?What was evolved, as you put it, was abolished by reason of being declared illegal by secular government authorities.
The prohibition of eating pork made perfectly good sense during a period when modern refrigeration was not available. It was a health measure then but now it is really quite safe . But the tradition continues, whether it is rationale or not.
Smoking cigarettes is not mentioned in the old testament and so it it is acceptable for a highly religious Jew to smoke himself to death. So long as its not expressly forbidden it is ok.
Go figure?
It is not in our tradition to seek out converts. Therefore we don’t, which in the long run might spell the death of our religion. However we must stick to tradition. Is that rationale?
Bill, we have an enemy more lethal than the Muslims. IT IS US.
Comment by h peskin — September 25, 2008 @ 1:38 pm
Come and learn.
If you care to, you can find numerous other errors of assumption in your post. This was just the most elementary.
Comment by Shy Guy — September 25, 2008 @ 1:46 pm
peskin, i did not understand what you said to yamit in regard to that dead jew on a stick? i do not understand neither what “stick”. if you mean the co-founder of the most bloody community in the history of mankind, then i have to inform you that he is not dead on a stick, he was HUNG by an ordanary rabbinical court according to what is written in the bible:
Comment by Tar Yag — September 25, 2008 @ 2:11 pm
Shy Guy: I can only judge what I observe. I see numerous bearded,black clad,individuals with long side locks happily puffing away. They are not hutterites.I would guess they have not even heard of Rabbi Steinmetz who represents a more modern wing of orthodoxy.
There are numerous other examples of the letter and the spirit of religious practice being in total divergence.
Shy guy, if you can poke holes in any of my arguments, don’t be shy, let me know.
Comment by h peskin — September 25, 2008 @ 2:48 pm
Tar yag: A dead Jew on a stick referring to Christ on the cross.
Comment by h peskin — September 25, 2008 @ 2:54 pm
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