Bomb Gaza before invading. [reposted]
[This post was originally dated Nov 18/08]
Now that the rockets are raining down on Israel and Barak is waiting for the legal go ahead for the use of artillery, I thought I would repost this article.
This article was originally posted on March 8/08 and reposted in June. Now that Olmert is about to decide whether to accept a harmful “lull” or to defeat Hamas once and hopefully forever, I am sure he is not following the advice in this article. Moishe Feiglin writes
“Olmert is about to send our children back there for a big, pointless military operation that will only increase the rain of missiles on the western Negev and, according to estimates, send at least 100 soldiers home dead, G-d forbid. At the end of the Great Military Operation, the IDF will retreat from Gaza. If the missiles had stopped in the interim, they will be back. Rabbis will encourage their students to fight for the glory of the nation and nobody except the grieving families will remember the dead soldiers. And nobody will remember Olmert’s investigation, either.”
The utter defeat of Hamas should be accomplished with the least number of IDF casualties. No one has the right to sacrifice our soldiers on the alter of world opinion. Bombing, with advance warning, is the moral thing to do. Never equate Jewish deaths with the enemies deaths. Our duty is to our own soldiers.
Conservative Christian posts Rabbi speaks out with moral clarity
June 1, 2007 — budsimmonsEliyahu advocates carpet bombing Gaza
Matthew Wagner, THE JERUSALEM POSTAll civilians living in Gaza are collectively guilty for Kassam attacks on Sderot, former Sephardi chief rabbi Mordechai Eliyahu has written in a letter to Prime Minister Ehud Olmert.
Eliyahu ruled that there was absolutely no moral prohibition against the indiscriminate killing of civilians during a potential massive military offensive on Gaza aimed at stopping the rocket launchings.[..]
The former chief rabbi also said it was forbidden to risk the lives of Jews in Sderot or the lives of IDF soldiers for fear of injuring or killing Palestinian noncombatants living in Gaza.[..]
I also wrote War and Morality: Don’t Muddy the Waters
Bomb Gaza before invading
By Ted Belman
The Assault on Israel’s Right to Self-Defense was described by Abraham Bell in his article on International Law and Gaza. Dr. Avi Bell is a member of the Faculty of Law at Bar-Ilan University, Visiting Professor at Fordham University Law School, and Director of the International Law Forum at the Jerusalem Center for Public Affairs. He clearly advised that Israel has the right of self defense and described the law as it pertains.
But I was left with some nagging questions. What do the principles and rules he set out mean in practice. I wanted to know if Israel had no choice but to invade or whether it could just use artillery and bombs, even unintelligent inexpensive bombs. I fully understood that the restriction on certain supplies entering Gaza was legal and so were targeted killings though our “international friends” disagree.
I asked Bruce Tucker Smith, JD, LL.M. (International Law), Lt Col USAFR (ret), the Co-author “Seventh Psalm”.
Here is his considered opinion.
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Criticism leveled at Israel for her response to terrorist attacks by Hamas in the Gaza says more about those who criticize Israel than it does about the legality of the reprisals.
Can Israel respond to Hamas’ attacks? In what strength? By what means? These questions are traditionally answered in the salons of international legal debate, by an examination of the status of the combatants.
We therefore ask: What is Gaza? What is Hamas? Answer these questions honestly, and there is little room for discussion or debate about the legality or legitimacy of Israel’s military responses to date…or her options in the future. Answer these questions honestly and you will have taken a long step toward resolving the endless criticism of Israel’s military response to the endless stream of rockets cascading into Israel from the west. (In fact, more than 5000 since Israel ceased her occupation of the Gaza.)
Gaza is not a formally-defined, internationally-recognized state. It is, at best, a protectorate or a territory…but certainly it does NOT enjoy the status of international “statehood” that would entitle such an entity to claim sovereignty over her national borders and the land within.
Hamas, of course, is the Islamic Resistance Movement, which became active in the early stages of the intafada. It operates primarily in the Gaza (and also in Judea and Samaria). Its stated goal: the eradication of the Israeli people and the establishment of an Islamic Palestinian state in place of Israel. Hamas, of course, has the outright backing of Iran in its genocidal efforts to murder Israelis.
What Hamas is NOT, is a recognized armed force operating under the aegis of a duly-elected state; it is not a signatory to any of the Geneva Conventions; it is not a member of either the United Nations or the Security Council; it does NOT campaign openly under a national flag and it’s operatives don’t wear recognized badges of nationality or military rank. In the legal parlance of the “Law of War,” Hamas, as an entity, is not a recognized “combatant” and, hence, not entitled to the protections of the Geneva Conventions. The latter cannot be strongly enough emphasized: Hamas, and the people who support or conceal its efforts, are entitled to NO special protections under any aspect of the Law Of War, of which the Geneva Conventions are but a part.
By contrast, those nations, armies or entities who DO ascribe to and respect the Geneva Conventions; who DO campaign under a national flag and chain-of-command ARE entitled to the special protections of the Conventions!
As the Olmert government has repeatedly said, Israel will not negotiate with entities that do not recognize the legitimate demands of the international community, as voiced through the United States, European Union, the United Nations and Russia! Hence, Israel’s use of force against Hamas.
The United Nations Charter, Article 51, clearly and plainly provides Israel with the necessary legal armor to pursue and rout Hamas. “Nothing in the present Charter,” Article 51 reads, “ Shall impair the inherent right of individual or collective self-defence if an armed attack occurs against a Member of the United Nations, until the Security Council has taken measures necessary to maintain international peace and security.”
Other than a few weak-worded Resolutions, the Security Council has failed to take action to protect Israel’s safety and sovereignty—hence, she is free to act as she will militarily! And, in my opinion, she is free of many of the traditional limitations on the use of military force – at least where Hamas is concerned.
“rule of proportionality”
The oft-misunderstood “rule of proportionality” is usually cited, wrongly, by the left in critique of Israel’s operations against Hamas in Gaza.
One must recognize that the “rule” is, in fact, no rule at all. It is not clearly defined in any statute or treaty. Rather, it can best be described as the resulting synthesis of “customary international law” which is derived from a reading of the ancient Hague Conventions (written in an era when warfare was defined as set-piece battles, conducted by brightly-clad armies amassed on the sunlit fields of Europe) and the 1949 Geneva Conventions which, in part, proscribe armed reprisals against civilians. Sadly, the “rule” is frequently bent or twisted to meet the ends of the particular sophistry at hand.
In its simplest application, the “rule” generally means that an army cannot inflict collateral damage upon an enemy combatant (or the surrounding civilian populace) in excess of the legitimate military advantage conferred upon the attacking army. In other words, a nation’s military response must be necessary and proportional to the injury suffered.
“Legal scholars” frequently say, “If someone punched you in the nose, you don’t burn their house down.” To be sure, those are seductive words, rationally attractive, and intellectually inviting…but utter hokum in the face of reality. Taken to its logical absurdity, such a definition of the “rule” would prevent an army from EVER amassing superior firepower against an enemy, lest that army be accused of a disproportionate use of force! The fact is, wars are won when one side utilizes a disproportionate amount of force to defeat an enemy …otherwise, the Third Reich would still sit in power with the Allied armies resting somewhere near the Seine River.
The “rule” is often manipulated in the court of public opinion, particularly in the era of “asymmetrical warfare,” the current buzz-term which describes the conflict between western nations who possess large standing armies and billion-dollar gadgetry and terrorist groups who employ simple, terroristic, and patently illegal means of waging armed conflict.
The world’s (leftist) academic “elite” and media sympathetic to Islamic fundamentalism almost always focus on Israels’ response to terrorism! No doubt, leftist apologists are motivated by some misplaced, misguided sense of “unfairness” that a well-organized, well-trained and well-equipped IDF would pursue and kill Hamas terrorists who intentionally clad themselves in civilian attire and hide their operations in schools, hospitals and Mosques.
The simple fact is that the “rule” of proportionality” shrinks to near inapplicability when Hamas uses civilians as shields or when it purposely attacks the innocent—the central most effective tools in the terrorist’s arsenal.
“Collateral damage”
Another common misstatement in the public discourse surrounds the killing of civilians. Of course, NO one would countenance murder and nothing in this essay should be construed as a brusque dismissal of civilian deaths …but a distinction in the Law of War regarding civilian deaths is frequently and intentionally ignored. The Law of War proscribes the INTENTIONAL targeting of civilians, not the inadvertent and unfortunate loss of civilian life in an armed conflict. Yet, whenever inadvertent civilian deaths DO occur in the Gaza or in the West Bank or in Baghdad, the left immediately and uniformly decries those deaths as “war crimes” – which they most certainly are not!
Such is the nature of public debate, particularly in the wake of 9/11.
In short…Israel’s defense forces are entitled to use whatever means is at her disposal to search out and destroy terrorist operatives. Nothing in international law precludes a vigorous, intense and effective military campaign to destroy terrorist operations. That means, Israel may use air and ground-artillery resources –as she will–against those Hamas operatives (I hesitate to us the word “military” – since Hamas is NOT a recognized military force.) which are used to inflict casualties upon Israel.
That means Israel may use her army in large or small measure to attack any place or person that attacks Israel. That means Israel can bombard Hamas targets as militarily necessary to render it impotent against a subsequent wave of Israeli soldiers. Although politically preferable, nothing in international law absolutely requires Israel to use “smart” munitions in its operations against Hamas.
If Hamas attempts to shield its operations with truly innocent civilians or children—it is Hamas and not Israel, who has committed an atrocity –an actionable war crime–of the most heinous proportion!”.
In sum: Israel is free to employ ALL munitions, tactics, equipment and personnel in her arsenal to defend herself against the outlaw Hamas terrorist organization. Short of the intentional targeting and murder of truly uninvolved and innocent civilians, Israel can (and should) operate as freely as she desires to protect her territorial sovereignty and the lives of her citizens.
So, it is not international law that Israel is concerned about. The Government of Israel is more concerned about the cries of the international community than the cries of its children and mothers. It is more concerned with the lives of Arabs than the lives of its own citizens including its soldiers.
Israel has the right to bomb Gaza and use artillery. Its about time they did.
If Israel invades instead, with the loss of many of its own soldiers, I submit it would be guilty of a war crime against its own people. At a minimum Israel would be guilty of criminal negligence if it sent the IDF soldiers to their deaths rather than to bomb.
It is morally repugnant to sacrifice your own soldiers to save the lives of your enemies. Forget about world opinion.
I am not sure what all the legal fuss is ab out. Simple. Apply game theory. Tit for tat, ilt is called. I will do exactly unto you what you are doing to me: lob shelols randomly at where I think they come from. You elected the group in force–Hamas–so if you don’t like retal;ioation, tell them.
Comment by davidstill — February 27, 2008 @ 2:42 pm
Ted, as in the past (many times), I have advocated a total force invasion of the Gaza territory, so as to elimianate the Hamas terrorists and the other groups who are participants of terror. The above article clearly shows that Israel has the right to do so legally despite the opinions of those who say they do not. Every country who disagrees is one whose “interests” are for themselves and not what is right according to International Law. Olmert and other members of the Kadima and Labor parties also have their own “interests” (don’t know what they are), but they are out of step with the far majority of Israelis who wish to stop the shelling and terror acts by full force, no compassion for civilian casualties because the militants hide behind them. It would be far better to do this now as apposed to when Iran has the bomb and Hizbollah has strengthened even more. It would be far better to kill the terrorists, take control of Gaza and apoligize afterwards than not to do anything and end up with heavy Israeli casualties and death
themselves.
Comment by Ed D — February 27, 2008 @ 2:59 pm
David, you sound just like the government now seated. Tit for Tat will never work because the Arabs have so many more tats than Israelis.
Comment by Ed D — February 27, 2008 @ 3:01 pm
The answer to win a war required disproportionate force. Don’t let anyone one hold you to proportionate force.
Comment by Ted Belman — February 27, 2008 @ 3:03 pm
Ted,
I think you are struggling with some international norm for response to Gaza. There is none because the assault on Israel is a stacked deck. There are several constiuencies. First, the Arab/Muslim world. They will never understand an attack on Gaza. Then there is the EU. They will only stand for Israel if there is another holocaust and it is too late anyway. There are Russia and China who want trade, i.e. oil from the Middle East. They won’t support Israel. Finally there is the US. the US will support Israel in most instances, but will try to hedge its bets in the interest of oil supplies, cooperation in US military actions and good relations with the Arabs.
So Israel has to disregard most of the world, including the UN. They need to pay some attention to Washington but cannot accept dictated policy from the State Dept. In short Israel has to defend its own interest and the rest of the world can go to hell.
In any rational situation random attacks on civilians would be met by overwhelming force and the collateral damage would be the fault of those who started the attacks. This is the Middle East and there is nothing rational about it.
If I were making the decisions I would weigh the support or likely condemnation of the US against the constant bombing of my civilians. I would consider the likelihood of a chain reaction bringing Hezbollah, Syria and Iran into a regional war. Then I would attack with orders of engagement that say anyone with a gun is a target. Shoot to kill. I would exclude all foreign news people from the district and I would confiscate all weapons caches. Private homes and mosques would not be safe havens. I would shoot all Hamas leadership on sight.
The attack would have to be fast. Sieges don’t work when Jews are involved. Only facts on the grounds which this time will not be reversed. My nightmare is that everything I said takes place and then some schmuck decides to give the land to Abbas or NATO.
Comment by Fred — February 27, 2008 @ 3:57 pm
None of the Above have mentioned the influence of the extremist leftist Israeli Supreme Courts influence on current military policy! Before Justice Barak The court rarely accepted that which was not within their scope of authority or competence to rule and or make judgment. He decided to make the principle of all thigs are judicable, thereby giving the Court unlimited power. One could make a case for accusing the court of legislating from the bench and usurping powers vested in the legislative branch the Knesset.
http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/Politics/sctterror.html
http://www.jcpa.org/brief/brief4-5.htm
THIS ARTICLE FROM LAST YEAR IS REPRESENTATIVE OF MUCH OF THE CRITICISM OF THE COURT
Court Says Move That Wall!
By Steven Plaut, FrontPageMagazine.com | Wednesday, July 07, 2004
Comment by yamit82 — February 27, 2008 @ 6:09 pm
Ted, It is possible to bomb Gaza and inflict enough casualties (perhaps thousands) to cause a cessation of rocket attacks. After all the Russians leveled Groszny in Chechnyia and after a couple of years achieved the desired effect of stabilizing the region. They did not concern themselves with
international law or international condemnation.
However Israel is not quite in the same position as Russia. There is the little matter of 9/11, the Iraqi debacle, America’s difficulties with the Turks vs Kurds, the quagmire in Afghanistan, the general war on terror, the dangers posed by Iran, the mess in Pakistan. All of this inpinges on Israel of freedom of action. So long as Israel is viewed by most of the world as closely associated with America, and so long as Israel feels it must maintain America’s good will, it will NOT DO anything to incur America’s wrath. And the last thing the U.S. needs is a major blood bath in Gaza.
Most every thing you and others on your blog site write presumes that nothing else counts in the middle east other than the Israeli/Arab/Palestinian conflict. If only it were that simple. All the problems here are closely linked and extremely complex. But the again if you want to maintain your blinders and live in the land of make believe, you are quite free to do so.You can say if only we do this, that and the other thing it will solve……………….
H Peskin
Comment by h peskin — February 27, 2008 @ 6:28 pm
Email received.
Truly and clearly argued.
One wonders how Moshe Dayan would have responded to the Kassam rockets.
It was he who said, “Israel must be like a mad dog, too dangerous to bother.”
Best regards,
Phillips
Comment by Ted Belman — February 27, 2008 @ 6:57 pm
Ted your H Peskin sounds very much like your friend Andrew Hingston?
Peskin Tell that to the poor guy that bought it today in Sderot . Tell that to his wife and now fatherless kids, tell that of the wounded. Do you think They or we should give a shit what America or anybody else thinks, especially you! If I had a choice which to my sorrow I don’t I would pick the most fanatical Muslim as my neighbor over you. I think that about sums up my feelings. Hyman or what ever your real name is!
Have a nice day!!
Comment by yamit82 — February 27, 2008 @ 7:02 pm
There are virtually no strategic or enemy targets to bomb in Gaza, by now they are dug in similar to Hizbola was in the last war there. in order to destroy terrorists in Gaza you must go in house to house flush them out take all the weapons and either kill them or capture them Killing if preferable but it isn’t my call.
I WILL SAY THIS THOUGH A FULL SCALE INVASION MIGHT PUSH US INTO OPEN CONFLICT WITH EGYPT!!
Comment by yamit82 — February 27, 2008 @ 7:31 pm
Email
Excellent article! Should be sent to President Bush and to PM Olmert
Comment by Ted Belman — February 27, 2008 @ 7:45 pm
I agree with you Ted that the only thing that will stop the rocket attacks will be the complete and utter destruction of Hamas in Gaza by the Israeli military. Since I’m not a military man, I’m not the best person to speak on military stategy. I think the IDF has plenty of those experts among its ranks. However, I do have a pretty good handle on why the U.S. is an obstucle for Israel to do the right thing and defend itself. First, our President, even if he is Pro-Israel, only serves 8 years at best. Second, our State Department is full of career diplomats who often have their own agendas which are agendas of leftists worldwide. These leftists will often undermine the best-intentioned Pro-Israel U.S. President. Third, let’s face it, leftist media worldwide is no friend of Israel.
With that said, Israel has to take matters in to its own hands to protect its citizens!
If I had my way, this is what I would do. Because Islamo-fascists worldwide refer to the U.S. as the Big Satan and Israel as the Little Satan, they have declared war on us “Satans”. It’s high time we (Israel and the U.S.) wake up and realize we are already at war. Therefore, instead of telling Israel to stand aside when we go after terrorists in Iraq and Afghanistan for example, we treat Israel like a true ally. Conversely, we should be helping Israel to protect herself, like a true ally would! Instead we tell Israel to stand aside when we go after terrorist states and won’t lift a finger to help Israel when it goes after terrorist organizations like Hamas. If either of us help each other, it’s covert so as not to offffend Muslim countries and their leftist sympathizers. It should be overt and in their faces!
Now I know some fear Russian intervention, fearing a military alliance between Israel and the U.S. My plan for that is as follows:
What just took place last week? Kosovo declares Independence. I find myself supporting Russia’s resistance for this and opposing U.S. support of Kosovo’s independence. Why because the U.S. is supporting “Islamism’s New Beachhead” the title of Julia Gorin’s piece on FrontPageMagazine.com. If we were to reverse support and oppose this new Islamic state we would have a better chance of Russia keeping it’s nose out of our’s and Israel’s business. The KLA is committing genocide in Kosovo and many Christian Serbs have been beheaded! Proof of what I’m saying can be found at (Michaelsavage.com).
Now don’t hold your breath on reversal of U.S. policy. There is a tombstone in Arlington National Cemetery labeled “Common Sense”. Clinton really screwed the Serb’s! Unfortunately, our government is now exaserbating the original wrong perpetrated by Clinton. Until, all enemies of the Jihadists wake up and realize they are at war, stop the political correctness, and go on offense, we are going to keep ringing our hands about terrorist attacks on Israel, the U.S., and all other non-Muslim states.
Comment by dlomax — February 27, 2008 @ 8:49 pm
Hey lomax,you should be right at home herewith those views
Comment by Ted Belman — February 27, 2008 @ 9:03 pm
Ted, I definitely feel I’m at home on your site. I just found your site today because Michael Savage had a link to your site on his site. I really appreciate a site like yours. Not only because I can talk to like-minded people like you, but I will have a place to get information on Israel that hasn’t been warped, sanitized, and changed to make it out to fit the “little satan” template that the leftists and jihadists have created. I’ve forwarded your site to many of my friends. Hopefully they visit your site to get an opposing view to the main stream media on the plight of Israel. Keep up the great work and I will be a regular visitor from now on. God Bless the U.S. and Israel!
Comment by dlomax — February 27, 2008 @ 9:45 pm
What can I say that would not be preaching to the choir. I could possible make a comment or two, but as for me I think Fred summarized it all as pithy an one can when he wrote: “In short Israel has to defend its own interest and the rest of the world can go to hell.”
All else is commentary.
Martin Kessler
mdk4130@aol.com
Comment by mdk4130 — February 27, 2008 @ 10:08 pm
Email
EXCELLENT PIECE!
Yekutiel
Comment by Ted Belman — February 27, 2008 @ 10:48 pm
You’d be asking the Israeli government to do something that runs counter to its philosophy the best way to seek security for Israel to surrender more land and be nice to the enemy. Ain’t gonna happen under the bunch who now run Israel. The murder of a Jew is not going to change the way they see the broader picture.
Comment by NormanF — February 27, 2008 @ 11:16 pm
Email
Thanks for the information,Ted. I am standing on the wall for Jerusalem! I have forwarded this to all my friends. I believe reading this will help open people’s eyes to the garbage the media is lying about!
Shalom,
Wanda
Comment by Ted Belman — February 27, 2008 @ 11:19 pm
Email
amen!!! finally a voice of reason!!!
Comment by Ted Belman — February 28, 2008 @ 12:21 am
Email
Great, solid article.
Eretz Israel and our people have been entrapped, (in my opinion with a trap of our own making), by a system developed since right after WWII and that was triggered in Oslo.
Recently one of the operatives installed in the so called winograd commission informed officially that “300″ people here, not elected or functions, actually make all decisions, led of course by 18 families.
Until when the PEOPLE rid that element and form a JEWISH NATIONAL GOVERNMENT, no changes will take place.
Our groups are growing steadily and our objectives are initially to DESTROY the unJewish systems and severely isolate its components, many of which will end up in front of new courts.
The unJewish state must end and a vibrant JEWISH State must replace it totally.
That alone will greatly reduce the Islamics will to harm us.
Nevertheless, a great many of those Moslems now here will have to opt out. Gaza is a matter for a military solution and re population.
SHmuel
Comment by Ted Belman — February 28, 2008 @ 6:38 am
Email
Hi Ted,
A very good synopsis.
Israel has to bomb Gaza, with forewarning of evacuation of the civilians within 48 hours. This would flatten the buildings and it would be much easier to monitor by the drones and satellites flying over Gaza.
An entry by IDF troops is dangerous, because in those narrow streets snipers will be shooting and the IDF will be having many casualties and the lives of our young soldiers are very precious to all of us.
After yesterdays meeting with Rice, Olmert will have to await the visit of Rice to Israel next Tuesday and change its policy and bomb the strip. It has also to take back the Philadelphi border.
Whatever Israel does, it will be condemned. Israel has withdrawn from the Gaza strip. It has no responsibility to the peoples of the Gaza strip, who have chosen a leadership who wishes to annihilate Israel. Israel has all the right to block goods, electricity and water to be forwarded to a state which proclaims that they will never recognize them and who wishes to destroy them.
In todays world, were all economy is in a havoc, Israel is not the one to sacrifice itself for the well being of all those countries. Israel must live and the leaders must be the guardian of their civilians.
All the best
Comment by Ted Belman — February 28, 2008 @ 6:42 am
I agree with almost all what you wrote.
Whatever Israel does it will be condemned. Invading Gaza will result in large IDF losses and provide only a temporary relief. One time bombing of Gaza by IDF again is only a temporary solution and will be a big propaganda victory for Hamas. Repeating over and over again actions that did not work is idiotic. Since Israel cannot adopt the Russian solution it is time to start thinking out of the box
So what can be done sit and do nothing and wait for rockets to fall on Ashkelon, Beersheba and Ashdod? Building safe rooms and hide like mice in holes until the economy of Israel collapses?
In my view the only way out short of annihilating Gaza is to enable the resident of Sderot to manufacture and launch its own Quassam rockets 10 rockets for each sent toward them. I believe that even BBC will find it difficult to blame resident of city under daily bombardment for retaliating.
I believe that with all their bravado this will convince Hamas and the supporting population that they have nothing to gain by continuing firing rockets.
Comment by balabu — February 28, 2008 @ 8:38 am
[...] Belman has posted about Israel’s legal justification for undertaking a virtual war against the rockets raining [...]
Pingback by Israpundit » Blog Archive » Gaza: “Let loose the dogs of war: cry havoc” — February 28, 2008 @ 8:54 am
[...] sent me Ted Belman’s post, Bomb Gaza. Win the War. I thought maybe my parking lot idea was taking off, but it turns out that other people have had [...]
Pingback by Yes We Can: Bomb Gaza and Win the War « The Avid Editor’s Insights — February 28, 2008 @ 10:24 am
I am not advocating virtual war fought by IDF. IDF has not the capability to stop the rockets for strategic and political reasons. So the residents of Sderot have to take their fate in their own hand. Fast forward back to the future. “Peulot tagmul” retaliation by victimized citizens is called for and it will be hard to criticize. Essentially Hamas is fighting a propaganda war and Sderot has to fight same type war and not ask for more bunkers and reinforced buildings.
As to the Israeli critics of such action I would suggest moving them to live in Sderot .
Actually the Kneset should be moved to Sderot and the Super righteous Israeli supreme court as well
Comment by balabu — February 28, 2008 @ 10:42 am
TODAY 15 RUSSIAN GRAD ROCKETS WERE FIRED ON ASHKALON, 19 HIT THE CITY ONE ROCKET HIT A ROOF OF A HOUSE AND MADE A HOLE IN 3 APTS. BELOW THE ROOF. ASHKALON HAS NO ALARM SYSTEM. SINCE YESTERDAY OVER A HUNDRED ROCKETS HAVE BEEN FIRED ON ISRAEL. ALL OF THE DISTASTEFUL CHOICES BY OLMERT HAVE THEIR DOWNSIDES BUT UNLESS WE DEPOPULATE GAZA THE BEST WE CAN EXPECT IS AT LEAST AN ORDER TO IDF to assassinate Hamas and IJ LEADERSHIP. ANYTHING LESS THAN THE TWO OPTIONS WILL LEAVE THE ENEMY IN PLACE TO FIGHT ANOTHER DAY AND THEY WILL AND THEY WILL ESCALATE, AND ESCALATE UNTIL EVEN OLMERT WILL HAVE NO CHOICE THAN TO RE OCCUPY ALL OF GAZA AND I MEAN ALL OF GAZA. HOUSE TO HOUSE ARREST AS MANY TERRORISTS AS WE CAN GET. INTEL FROM EACH INCARCERATE TENS OF THOUSANDS LOCATE CACHES OF WEAPONS AND DESTROY ALL FABRICATION FACILITIES. Counter world and Arab VITRIOL AGAINST ISRAEL BLOCK INITIATIVES AGAINST ISRAEL AND EXPECT OUR ECONOMY TO TAKE A BLOW IS IT WILL TAKE MONTHS TO DO THIS KIND OF ACTION. THOUSANDS OF IDF RESERVES WILL BE CALLED UP AND AS ALWAYS HAPPENED THE EUPHORIA AND HIGH MOTIVATION IN THE BEGINNING WILL START TO RECEDE WITH EA. DAY ESPECIALLY IF WE TAKE HEAVY CASUALTIES. America and the rest of the World along with most of Israeli left will then demand that Israel turn over Gaza to Abbas and his 40 thieves. or at least to get out and let Nato in or America or Eu anybody but us. Then Olmert as a tactic might call for new elections which might buy him an extra six months in office,
I personally think that Israels leadership is waiting for the big one either Mega Hit and or a lot of Casualties especially if they are children, I think they are uncertain if the Israeli public will back a major land offensive and need to feel secure theat the Nation is behind them, so they wait for the right Kassam or Grad , to hit the right target so they can feel secure that the country is behind them.
All calculations are internal and political here.
Comment by yamit82 — February 28, 2008 @ 11:50 am
““AT LEAST AN ORDER TO IDF to assassinate Hamas and IJ LEADERSHIP. ”
The same old useless suggestions that did not work in the past and will not work in the future.
One time blow does not work. Only consistent predictable ruthless retaliation for each rocket fired at Israel. 10 unguided and cheap rocket for each rocket fired at Israel Save the precision guided ammunition for real war.
Comment by balabu — February 28, 2008 @ 12:07 pm
What more is there to say? Words no longer have a meaning unless it’s backed with action. The onus is in Olmert’s court and his sorry lagacy will reflect it.
Comment by Ed D — February 28, 2008 @ 4:18 pm
As far as sending this article to President Bush, I did!! Way to Go Ted!!
Comment by sharadll41 — February 28, 2008 @ 11:00 pm
davidstill game theory presupposes that both sides act in a rational manner based on ea sides perception of of rationality, that being self interest. What screws up the theory is when one side acts counter to self interest and there you have the fly in the ointment. If the palis end game was really and independent national state they could have had one without war and terrorism several times, in ea instance they rejected it and chose conflict instead. If their goals had been to secure a better life for the palis then they have done everything in their power to accomplish the opposite. So one must assume that their stated goals are different than their actions would assume otherwise you can call their behavior irrational as no other explanation is possible. Irrational meaning acting or behaving against ones own interest is irrational behavior.
we have been fighting this war with the Arabs for almost 100 years and we may have to go on fighting this war for another 100 or 200 years to come!
Comment by yamit82 — February 29, 2008 @ 2:55 pm
[...] [See also Bomb Gaza. Win the War.] There is more here than meets the eye. Several Palestinian terror groups, including Hamas, are forging conceptual and tactical bonds with al-Qaeda. These criminal organizations are now actively planning for mega-terror operations against Israel. If they cannot be stopped – perhaps because of continued one-sided and selective coverage of Palestinian suffering in Gaza – such attacks would involve (at a minimum) chemical and/or biological weapons of mass destruction. Over time, especially if Iran should begin to transfer portions of its growing inventory of nuclear materials to selected terror groups, Israel could also face Palestinian-directed nuclear terrorism. What government could be expected to sit back passively and render its population vulnerable to instantaneous mass-slaughter? Would we, in the United States, sit quietly by as rockets rained down upon American cities from terrorist sanctuaries somewhere on our southern borders? Would we allow such carnage to continue with impunity? Can capitulation and surrender ever be the proper or excusable reaction of a sovereign state sworn to protect its populations? For as long as political philosophers have written about the essential obligations of sovereignty, no state responsibility has been as important as the fundamental assurance of protection. [...]
Pingback by Israpundit » Blog Archive » Understanding Gaza: Pain And Perfidy Under International Law — March 1, 2008 @ 10:52 pm
When I first read Avi Bell’s article I wrote to him and asked
The article fails to address something of great concern to me, namely, what can Israel do to stop the rocket fire.
- Must Israel invade and suffer a large number of casualties.
- Can Israel use artillery fire in sufficient abundance to end the firing.
- To what extent must it have a military target.
- Can Israel tell civilians to leave certain areas and then bomb
- Can Israel create no-man’s land areas where firing emanates.
He replied,
Comment by Ted Belman — March 2, 2008 @ 12:08 am
Lazer from Israel writes
Frankly, I amazed that you continue to advertise for these people. They continue to spew out cliches and one-sided arguments that have been better elucidated elsewhere. Furthermore, this treatise fails to make its point to any substantial degree at all. It’s conclusion that Israel should ignore world opinion is woefully ignorant of the fact that Israel has been ignoring world opinion since the ‘72 war when they bowed down to pressure to stop advancing on Arab capital cities. It is ignorant of the fact that the wall has been built in the face of tremendous opposition from the United Nations. Speaking of which, you can’t use UN laws to support your argument on one hand and then blithely fail to mention how many times Israel has ignored these laws and resolutions. You want us to pick and choose, but you either accept it all or it all becomes suspect–you can’t have it both ways.
As I stated in my last response, you and this guy have to stop bothering with all this and get on with your lives. Using words to justify complex decisions and actions taken by Israel and her neighbours is like trying to convince a theist that there is no god using logical arguments. It can’t be done!!!!!
Israel will continue to survive and will do whatever they want whenever they want to whomever they want however they want with whatever logic or emotion that suits them (and probably you) at the time and there is nothing you or I or anybody can say or write that will make one bit of difference. History will judge as it always does. At least some form of history will be their judge. Hopefully we’ll be around to write it….. Lazer
Comment by Ted Belman — March 2, 2008 @ 4:30 am
Email from South America
CONGRATULATIONS for articulating precisely what Israel is entitled, legally, militarily and, most importantly, morally, to do in response to the rockets raining in from Gaza. Wish Israel’s leaders would heed your words!
Comment by Ted Belman — March 2, 2008 @ 4:36 am
[...] hope that my article Bomb Gaza. Win the War in which I recommended this, informed their [...]
Pingback by Israpundit » Blog Archive » Olmert: We won’t halt Gaza operations even for a second — March 2, 2008 @ 5:59 am
This strange people has the qualities of a (mad?) dog:
They only lick the boot that kicked them. Kicked them hard enough.
Remember ‘Black September’? There’s all quiet in Jordan since then …
Si vis pacem, para bellum. If you seek peace, prepare for war.
That’s still true…
Comment by Dado — March 2, 2008 @ 3:13 pm
Islam And The West Accelerated Links For 2nd March…
Israpundit on why Gaza must be bombed in order to win the war….
Trackback by Islam And The West Opinions Of A Kashmiri Nomad — March 2, 2008 @ 4:08 pm
#33
In effect you argue the people are powerless and should not even try to be heard. Sorry we’re not dead yet.
In a free society , one that is democratic the people have a duty to speak up and to influence decisions. The problem is not with our speaking up but with the government not listening.
Comment by Ted Belman — March 2, 2008 @ 4:13 pm
LETS TAKE A BREAK
Tuesday, February 26, 2008
Palestinians Violently Protest Non-Violence Protest
ISL – Gaza
Palestinians voted with their feet yesterday, shunning the much-heralded anti-Israeli, non violent protest, in favor of lobbing mortars at Israel from the comfort and safety of their own backyards.
After successfully breaching the hitherto unknown border between Gaza and Egypt, the Palestinian government sought to do the same with the Israeli border, but this time with a twist: instead of blowing up the border and shooting at the guards, Hamas opted for a non-violent protest, the first of its kind in the desperate, decades long struggle of the Palestinian people to exterminate Israel.
The unfamiliar concept was quite a challenge for Ramzi Hamed, the Hamas Public Relations officer tasked with drumming up the necessary popular support for the move, “We don’t even have the words to express such an idea,” complained Ramzi, who ordered the schools closed and had his people hand out fliers announcing ” A new, lethal weapon against anti-Zionism to be revealed at the demonstration” in an effort to bring out as many people as possible. But despite the offer of free bussing and refreshments, most Palestinians chose to stay at home.
“What I want to know is – if we are not killing anybody or stealing from anybody, or destroying something – then what’s the point? I mean, what’s in it for me?” asked Abed, A simple terrorist from Gaza, who echoed the feelings of many. For instance, Lutfi, a disgruntled father said, “If my child is going to miss bomb-making school, then it should be for a better reason then some silly demonstration where shooting is not allowed. These teachers – they will use any excuse to close down,” said Lutfi, who had to quit his job at the smuggling tunnels early in order to take care of his kids, “You should have seen the dirty look the boss gave me!”
According to onlookers,
only several thousand Palestinians showed up and even they were disappointed, “We came to see a new weapon that will destroy the racist Zionist entity,” said Muhammad from Gaza, ” Well, I’ve been here all day and all we did was hold hands and chant and I want to know when, in the name of Allah, are we going to kill some Israelis?” said Muhammad, echoing the sentiments of many other disappointed Palestinians.
Hundreds of these dissatisfied protesters mobbed the Hamas representatives who spent the day trying to explain the nature of the non-violent weapon to the disbelieving crowd, but to no avail. Finally, apparently out of pure frustration, the mob ransacked the Hamas non-violence stand, trashed the non-violence propaganda and shot the organizers of the non-violent protest, “There is only one way to deal with this lying Western scum,” said the masked leader of the mob, called Yousouf, “The Palestinian way!”
Too bad it didn’t really end this way. The Hamas people have certainly killed enough innocent people to deserve it!
Comment by yamit82 — March 2, 2008 @ 4:33 pm
[...] « Bomb Gaza. Win the War……….Front [...]
Pingback by Israpundit » Blog Archive » Don’t muddy the waters with talk of morality in war. — March 3, 2008 @ 8:06 pm
[...] Earlier I posted Bomb Gaza. Win the War. [...]
Pingback by Israpundit » Blog Archive » “disproportionate force” is not illegal — March 5, 2008 @ 12:06 pm
[...] of Bruce Tucker Smith, JD, LL.M. (International Law), Lt Col USAFR (ret) to Barak in my article Bomb Gaza, Win the War. In Don’t muddy the waters, I advised against introducing the question of morality into war. “Im [...]
Pingback by Israpundit » Blog Archive » Another bad lawyers joke — March 7, 2008 @ 9:31 am
[...] must be reading my stuff. I refer to Bomb Gaza, Win the War and Don’t Muddy the Waters. Posted by Ted Belman @ 8:18 am [...]
Pingback by Israpundit » Blog Archive » Winning is everything. — March 16, 2008 @ 8:19 am
Israel and Hamas…
From Bruce Smith, quoted by the Israpundit:
Criticism leveled at Israel for her response to terrorist attacks by Hamas in the Gaza says more about those who criticize Israel than it ……
Trackback by EclectEcon — March 22, 2008 @ 12:51 am
[...] they mean and when they apply. The Assault on Israel’s Right to Self-Defense by Araham Bell and Bomb Gaza, Win the War describes the law. I also wrote to our consul general advising “disproportionate force” is not [...]
Pingback by Israpundit » Blog Archive » Michael Ignatieff in the lion’s den — April 14, 2008 @ 2:15 pm
If Israel does not stay in Gaza don’t invade just decapitate all the leaders down to any known minor player. Use intel to locate weapons and go in and confiscate. Then with each rocket we level a part of beit hanoun where most of rockets are fired about 2 km from Sderot. You do not waste time and ammo on the little guys doing the shooting you knock over all the Hamas leaders. and all other of all organizations, tighten the screws economically make UnRAW supply from the Egyption side no entrance to Israel, along with all the other NGOs all neighborhoods within 3km of Egyption Border leveled and we monitor the border using cameras flown in drones and balloons etc. We bomb that no mans area with explosive to cave in tunnels 3km is a long way to dig.
Then the only way out for them is the back door to Egypt.
Comment by yamit82 — June 2, 2008 @ 3:25 pm
Even if Gaza were a sovereign entity, Israel would still have the right to attack it since she is being attacked from Gaza.
Comment by Laura — June 2, 2008 @ 3:29 pm
[...] The last thing Israel should do is to play into their hands by invading before a major bombing campaign. This is what I recommended in Bomb Gaza before invading. [...]
Pingback by Israpundit » Blog Archive » Make Hamas pay. — July 4, 2008 @ 1:15 pm
Just lob Kassams at them.
Comment by BlandOatmeal — November 18, 2008 @ 8:23 pm
Niccolo Machiavelli said that, if you have to do nasty things, you should do them all at the same time so you only get punished (e.g. with negative public opinion) for them once. On the other hand, you should confer benefits to friends over a period of time, so you will receive their gratitude on a regular basis instead of only once.
In other words, if Israel kills ten Hamas terrorists every week, it will be denounced every week in the United Nations. If Israel slaughters 50,000 terrorists in one week with cluster bombs, fuel-air munitions, and napalm, and renders Gaza incapable of supporting terrorists, it will be condemned only once. I think Israel should pick a time of its own choosing for the unpleasant job, and get it over with so it will never have to fight this battle again.
Israel should also take a lesson from the way the Soviets handled the Hungarian uprising of 1956. If a single shot came from a building, the Russians leveled the building. If several shots came from a street, the Russians leveled the entire city block. The Russians were not deterred or punished by “world opinion” either, and they WERE 100% in the wrong. When the Nazis fired ballistic missiles at London and other cities, the Allies destroyed entire German cities and killed tens of thousands of German civilians in the process. As stated by Sir Arthur Harris,
If a rocket comes from a village in Gaza, flatten the village with overwhelming counterbattery fire. If several rockets come from a location in Gaza, bomb that location until it is flat enough for a parking lot. Israel should make this policy clear ahead of time so civilians can get out of town when they see Hamas come in with rockets or mortars.
Comment by Bill Levinson — November 19, 2008 @ 1:37 pm
[...] Bomb Gaza before invading. Bruce Smith a military judge and international lawyer writes “rule of proportionality” [...]
Pingback by Israpundit » Blog Archive » Jurists tell Barak: Don’t shell Gaza population centers — December 17, 2008 @ 9:56 am
A year later and Israel is at back at square one after a half-finished war and the rockets are still falling on Southern Israel. And Israel’s Three Stooges are patting themselves on the back for presenting sheer stupidity as the acme of considered intelligence. So much for the myth the Jews are smarter than the goyim!
Comment by NormanF — January 17, 2009 @ 11:18 pm
[...] Israpundit ” Blog Archive ” Bomb Gaza before invading. [reposted] [...]
Pingback by Baby name meaning and origin for Beersheba — March 4, 2009 @ 10:59 pm
[...] the lead up to the Gaza War I wrote Bomb Gaza: Win the War Israel has the right to bomb Gaza and use artillery. Its about time they [...]
Pingback by Israpundit » Blog Archive » Law: No obligation to sacrifice your own soldiers to save lives of civilians. — July 19, 2009 @ 4:15 pm
[...] my article Bomb Gaza Win the War I wrote If Israel invades instead, with the loss of many of its own soldiers, I submit it would be [...]
Pingback by Israpundit » Blog Archive — September 14, 2009 @ 6:04 am
[...] to the war, I wrote Bomb Gaza before invading The Assault on Israel’s Right to Self-Defense was described by Abraham Bell in his article on [...]
Pingback by Israpundit » Blog Archive » Israel is not guilty as charged. — September 15, 2009 @ 10:32 pm