Israel should release Palestinians prisoners according to a Plan
By Ted Belman
Israel should release most of the 10,000 Palestinian prisoners held by them as part of a plan. I say most because the worst ones, i.e. those with “blood on their hands”, must be kept to make a point, namely, that murderers must be held accountable.
So what’s the plan? But first, the context.
In December ’05 the PA set a date for holding elections. At first, Israel wanted to restrict Arab residents in Jerusalem from voting and wanted to prevent Hamas from contesting them. Rice prevailed upon Israel to reverse its position on both matters. The result of the internationally supervised election, was that Hamas won 74 of the 132 seats. Hamas then formed the government and Fatah refused to be part of a coalition government.
This was bad news for the “peace process” because Hamas was adamantly against it. The US immediately started making plans to overthrow the Hamas government.
Vanity Fair just published The Gaza Bombshell
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After failing to anticipate Hamas’s victory over Fatah in the 2006 Palestinian election, the White House cooked up yet another scandalously covert and self-defeating Middle East debacle: part Iran-contra, part Bay of Pigs. With confidential documents, corroborated by outraged former and current U.S. officials, David Rose reveals how President Bush, Condoleezza Rice, and Deputy National-Security Adviser Elliott Abrams backed an armed force under Fatah strongman Muhammad Dahlan, touching off a bloody civil war in Gaza and leaving Hamas stronger than ever.
After Congress turned down Bush’s request for $86 million to finance this effort, Bush asked the Saudis, who instead brokered the Mecca Accords (Feb ’07) in an attempt to bring Fatah and Hamas together. Rice was apoplectic.
Hamas reacted to this attempted coup, by a coup of their own and took over Gaza in June ’07.
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David Wurmser accuses the Bush administration of “engaging in a dirty war in an effort to provide a corrupt dictatorship [led by Abbas] with victory.”
The botched plan has rendered the dream of Middle East peace more remote than ever, but what really galls neocons such as Wurmser is the hypocrisy it exposed. “There is a stunning disconnect between the president’s call for Middle East democracy and this policy,” he says. “It directly contradicts it.”
The US immediately switched gears and began a Westbank first option.
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Gaza had 400 functioning factories and workshops at the start of 2007. By December, the intensified Israeli blockade had caused 90 percent of them to close. Seventy percent of Gaza’s population is now living on less than $2 a day.
Israel, meanwhile, is no safer. The emergency pro-peace government called for in the secret Action Plan is now in office—but only in the West Bank. In Gaza, the exact thing both Israel and the U.S. Congress warned against came to pass when Hamas captured most of Fatah’s arms and ammunition—including the new Egyptian guns supplied under the covert U.S.-Arab aid program.
Thus it was clear that the Roadmap was no longer workable so Rice and Livni agreed to change it by discussing final status issues before the end of terror, even if the resulting agreement was only a “shelf agreement”. Presumably, if such an agreement were arrived at, the US would then arrange for the international community to adopt it. But this plan too is not working out because no one wants to compromise. Thus the Annapolis initiative is over.
Now, Michael Wise has suggested a plan. Israel should annex Judea and Samaria, hopefully with US approval, and relocate the prisoners to Gaza. Lest anyone claim that Israel would be pursuing ethnic cleansing, Israel should offer to accept an equal number of peaceful Gazans into Israel and give them Blue cards enabling them to work.
Not only would Israel free itself of the responsibility for their care and feeding and of incessant demands that they be released, she would be giving notice to all would be terrorists in Judea and Samaria that they too will be relocated to Gaza. In order not to separate them from their families, the families should also be relocated to Gaza. Now that’s what I call deterrence.
Rice is responsible for all the failed US initiatives in the conflict which I list here.
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- Rice demanded Israel abandon Rafah as part of the disengagement from Gaza. This was contained in the Rafah Agreement which she brokered. This agreement enabled smuggling on a large scale to take place.
- Rice demanded that Hamas be allowed to contest the elections resulting in its victory.
- Rice embraced Abbas as a great moderate and friend of the US. He has proved anything but.
- Rice engineered the plan to have Dahlan, supported by the US, execute a military coup of the Hamas government resulting in the Hamas coup of Gaza.
- Rice backed the plan to build up the Fatah forces with arms and munitions all of which were seized by Hamas.
- Rice then promoted the coalition of moderates which went nowhere.
- Rice also decided on the Annapolis Initiative that has produced only increased violence.
- Rice demanded Olmert stop the Gaza operations which killed over 100 Gazan, most of whom were terrorists on the basis that she would arrange a ceasefire through Egypt. This too will fail.
Some legacy. Rice has been an absolute and total disaster.
America has run out of options. Bush should declare that the Palestinians haven’t met the preconditions for statehood as set out in his vision speech in 2002 and should abandon his support for a Palestinian state.
Ted writes
Felix
You repeat the insult which Yamit makes to my political position, insinuating that the political programme which I represent is not for the defeat of all Fascism, which of course includes Hamas, and also Fatah, as well as all forms of Fascism and antisemitism in the world. Why do you do this to me Ted? You understand better than most what my political position is.
Among many other things Yamit writes the following:
Ted the above was addressed to me. Why should Yamit assert to me that creating a Palestinian state will not appease the Arabs. I have been writing on this site since shortly after it was formed by Joseph Alexander Norland and by three others. Everybody who has written on this site knows very well that that has always been my position. At the time of Gaza withdrawal I was at the forefront in opposing that against Omri Coren who you promoted, and against Isseroff who you refuse to break from.
Why then is Yamit, and now you Ted, are working on the presumption that that is not my position and why on earth would Yamit tell ME that creating a Palestinian state would not satisfy the Arabs.
Your own position mirroring the position of Yamit is that of a bankrupt bourgeois with one foot in the camp of the neocons, LIKE YAMIT.
You Ted Belman along with Yamit are gearing up Israpundit to support the arch Imperialist politician, crucifier of the Serbs, supporter of Islamofascism in the ex Yugoslavia. What then is the meaning of your talk of occupying Gaza? It is pure bullshit. Who is going to do it? Israel under Olmert, or McCain!
This is what all the emphasis which you, Yamit and Bill Levinson is orchestrating on the sole candidacy of Obama is all about. You are gearing to take a position of support for McCain along with Yamit. THAT WILL BE THE BIGGEST EVER BETRAYAL OF THE JEWS.
I do not know Rubin nor do I know his politics in general. I am just taking this one proposal which he has put forward of a no fire zone on its own merits.
This is not the end of the war but perhaps the beginning of it.
The real difference with you Ted and with Yamit is on the question of the isolation of Israel.
Why is Israel being isolated in the world. It is largely because there is no principled leadership in existence ANYWHERE.
What do Jews have as a principled leadership? From the recent conference of Jewish organizations which you reported, all of whom except one rowed in behind the Palestinian state, there is no principled leadership in America, CanadA, Britain, Germany etc.
What do you do Ted to build such a leadership? Is your idea of networking the building of such a leadership?
In my post 92 above I raise this issue of leadership in a very concrete way:
In those remarks and there were other items in my post as well, because that is an extract, I make a number of concrete proposals for creating a leadership.
I even end it all in reference to the Rubin proposal by asserting that Rubin’s idea is a TACTIC in the war. Do you understand what is meant by “tactic” either Yamit or yourself Ted? Apparently you do not!
You disregard everything I said about the use of your network, and other networks, in the struggle to fight for Israel.
You tend to disregard concrete proposals. You and others operate essentially a talking shop.
But you in the most disloyal fashion (remember your support of Kamm and atack on young Pearlstein) join with Yamit in twisting my political position, insinuating that I am prepared to seek a deal which will mean accepting Hamas. How crude and how demeaning is that for you Ted belman to do, after you have been reading my writing for so long.
In future if you want to find out what I am writing you will find it on my website http://www.4international.wordpress.com
We are still waiting on you Ted Belman to follow the valiant example of founder of Israpundit, Canadian citizen Joseph Alexander Norland, in denouncing your country’s linking up with Thaci and with Canada’s recognition of Kosovo.
Oh and good luck with Yamit! Hope that turns out well for you! And of course with McCain.
And if either of you misrepresents my political position I will answer on 4international. And especially if you deliberately confuse Trotskyism with Stalinism you will be answered by us most forcefully.
Felix are you taking your toys and going home because some here might not buy your party line? I lives on the other side of Rafa for 11 years lmost daily I travesrd a goodly portion inorder to get to and from the north to my then home in Yamit. I shopped in Gaza City emplyed as many as 29 Arabs fronm gaza, served at least hald of reserve duty in the Gaza district part of southern Command and I can tell you that no matter how many alternative plans to cope with the war of the Arabs (not Hamas) but including Hamas all will fail inflicting considerable loss to Israel and Israelis. I listen to our Mil. Leaders past and present and all same the same thing . Boots on the ground and reoccupation of Gaza. All the rest is political both internal and external Rubin I believe is suggesting what he believes is what can be done without incurring all the negatives you and others like Peskin foresee AND PREDICT WHAT WILL HAPPEN. I like realism if it as an end game purpose and we either winning at the end or get some sustainable real advantage from. Like the Man in the Movie said IF YOU ARE GOING TO SHOOT SHOOT DON’T TALK. We are going to be condemned either way go in do it good and fast then creat new facts on the ground solidify our positions and start shipping the locals to Canada and Australia, even Spain and Ireland if they are crazy enough to accept them but with a lot of dough in their individual pockets and a lot of pressure from IDF we can loose a substantial number. Later families who have left will encourage others to follow that is the way of the real world. The remaining Arabs can stay providing they behave or either get the Boot with nothing or die in the crossfire. In the end this is what will bee because no other scenario is doable without leaving the enemy intact to grow and fight another day. We take the profits from Gaza Gas which is really ours in the first place and pay them to leave that is a lot of Moolah especially for a family head getting 2 dollars a day. I can think of a lot of Jews here that might be interested in similar offer
Felix for the hundredth time, NO Trotsky revolution, nor Stalinist, Of Kerensky, Socialist, communist or any other revolution in in the Cards. We live by evolution not revolution, things change but very slowly. You talk about leadership as though real leaders in the mold many of us wish were so abundant that at the snap of ones fingers Presto we Have our Israeli Jewish Bismark. Leaders are deemed great if they Inspire and accomplish what the people expect of them. Show me a leader in the world today that is considered a good leader even by your definitions? Peskin Your concern for World Opinion is justifiable except if we had listened to World opinion and Jews with no guts Israel would never have been born.. NO PAIN NO GAIN as the man once said. even our most secular leaders were light years ahead of you wusses in the visionary, faith and knowing who they were dept. Our leaders today are Lawyers and Businessmen, and these types are not perse what we need. In the end leaders come to the fore when situations demand it and the people demand it, till then we live here like anyone else with what we have. Revolutions seem to follow a similar historical pattern become corrupt become authoritative and are deposed by another revolution claiming truth justice and God as their sources of power and inspiration.
No felix no revolution no socialism or any thing approaching as we here have grown up, do not view the world through narrow definitions , Most people here are happy just to get home in one piece after bucking traffic for an hour or so. Revolutions are not in their sights at the moment, and life in spite of hardships to a few is pretty good for most.
Felix I don’t understand what got you so upset except that nobody seems to agree with you on either side of the political divide here. You state positions that from any vantage are neither tenable nor desirable from the point of view of Returning some deterrent to our national persona and restoring our national sovereignty and national pride to the people and Government of Israel. I will go another step further if we do now what needs to be done it might just deflate any hopes for a Pali state on WB. as a land locked country with no incoming air and sea terminals is doomed before it gets off the ground. The Jordan is Pali Option then would look good to most. We must retake all of Gaza render Hamas a defunct organization even if we have to kill most of them, at least the active ones. When I first arrived in Israel a Jew from an Arab country who grew up with Arabs and of course spoke Arabic fluently told me that we should never let the Arabs feel they are strong or your equal. Hw said they only behave themselves when being dominated with a heavy stick held over their heads. How right he was.
We live in the Middle East not the Middle West and not Switzerland , Spain or Ireland. We need to throw off the Liberal Western Mindset and resign ourselves to behave in accommodation to the area and culture of our region. Like when in Rome?
Today is the Jewish secular Holiday of Purim when 2400 years ago the Jews of the Persian Empire were threatened with an anti semitic inspired Holocaust. Fascism and antisemitism existed 2400 years ago otherwise we would not be celebrating Purim today. It says in the Book of Esther that the Jews took their revenge on the family and followers of Haman, and slew 75000 of them well we need today some of that grit and salt in the Jewish diaspora today. When even Today about 50% of all adult Americans question the Loyalty of American Jews than all That Liberal Bullshit and trying to be like the gentile has not worked. Time to read the early handwriting on the wall and start to make plans, is mu only advice. Obama, Clinto or McCain. they are all wanting and all bad for the Jews of America and Israel. You view the world in dialectic terms I as a Jew in Historical Terms, after 3500 years of continuous history I can prove we are right and you wrong. There is no dialectic imperative only Human Nature which hasn’t changed an Iota since the beginning of mankind and human History. History must be our Bible and guide with an understanding of th nature of man, we can continue.
HAPPY PURIM
Felix
You say to me
You read me wrong. Rubin’s plan has nothi9ng to do with new leadership. I attacked itand suggested where it was missing. I did not address your call for new leadership nor did I insinuate that you supported a Palestinian state. You and Norland have always been against such a state. So you put your eggs in the idea the there be a grass roots uprising that can wrest control of the GoI, establish new leadership more representative of the people and one that will deny the creation of a Palestinian state.
You are a revolutionary and propose a resolution much like in what the communists did in Russia until they lost their way. I think your mindset is similar to the mindset that got the masses to rise up and throw out the Tsar. You want new leadership today to do the same thing to “imperialists”. I have never been doctrinaire not anti the “imperialists” or Neocons. So I don’t share your mindset. Nor do I have confidence that we the people could do it.
I focus on what I think should be done to win the war rather then the long route of what should be done to wrest control of the government. So I fail to get on you bandwagon or put my shoulder to the wheel.
Now, I meant to ask you if you support Obama. He is the closest thing to a people’s movement of the oppressed. Who do you suggest we should vote for. Perhaps you argue it doesn’t matter and I understand. But I think it matters. McCain is better than Obama in my opinion.
You rightly point out that we don’t have the leadership to retake Gaza. So I and others keep building the constituency that would support a more permanent solution and the end of Oslo. Elections are coming up within a year. Things may change.
I am arguing for a solution within the system, you are arguing for a revolution or coup.
Do I have you right.
I in no way twisted your position. I insinuated no such thing. Just because you support Rubin doesn’t mean you support a Palestinian state. Nor does your support of Rubin the end of your plans. You want to overthrow the government.
My comments only related to accepting Rubin’s limited plan or not.
#81 “David Ben-Ariel”,
your purpose is more than transparent. You are trying to present the “new testament” as a perfection or completion of the TaNaKh in order to tenderise iliterate Jews for the chrstening. To this end you put forward a number of absurd claims which are in evident contradiction to the TaNaKh to which you like so much to refer yourself.
1. You believe in the “new testament” but you blame “traditional” chrstianity for having betrayed these scriptures. However, it is easy to prove that the “new testament” is a deliberate fake and manipulation authored by very human minds and without any divine provenance as I proved at numerous instances in the past. So, for a literate Jew your legerdemain which consists in a disjunction of “traditional” chrstianity and the “pure religion” of the “new testament” appears as what it is: a last attempt to proselytise the Jewish People after all previous attempts failed.
2. Your own chrstian scriptures say that yeshu HaNotsri interdicted his “students” to preach to the non-Jews. Are you of Jewish descent since the time of the Temple (and without Rabbinic conversion ever between, since the latter would be inoperative from your point of view)? If not, so you are automatically betraying your idol.
3. You entitle yeshu HaNotsri as “King of the Jews, the King of Israel“. Can you tell me from when to when was his reign? Who appointed and who anointed him? Who was his chief of armies? Which battles did he fight? And which coins show his portrait?
4. Also do you say that you “faithfully keep the biblical Sabbath, biblical festivals, biblical dietary laws in spirit and in truth, in attitude and in action“. Can you give me an example of this? And what do you mean by saying the meanings of the Jewish festivals were “magnified and expanded” by yeshu HaNotsri?
5. What do you mean by “repentant Jews” and “British-Israelites”?
Ted, you remain true to yourself by defending the honour of your chrstian donators to the detriment of the Jewish proud.
Tar Yag, for a heads-up to save you time sorting through any Ben-Ariel replies that use common words that to him have uncommon meanings (Israelite and Jew, for ex, mean different things to him), the guy holds cult beliefs, not Christian beliefs. He expounds ideas from “Armstrongism” named after the late cult leader Herbert Armstrong who was a prominent adherent of “British-Israelism” (which is a form of Christian Identity–i.e., the real identity of Anglos, so they say, is that they are Israel!). Though in the 19th/early 20th century there were some benign British-Israelites who just were confused on doctrine, most today are virulently antisemitic (common definition, not theirs), even neo-nazis and KKK. Ben-Ariel doesn’t seem to go that far, but his views are racist, though they might seem interesting for anthropological purposes to increase one’s understanding those who advance varieties of hate theology. As a Christian, I renounce his theology, which definitely hurts and doesn’t help perceptions about Christianity.
soren, are you back again? (Although a man should keep promises…)
thanks for this precision about this “david”. Remains just one question to Ted Belman: how comes this guy can diffuse freely his “theories” on this website while orthodox Jews are censured?
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