Obama in, Oprah out.
Since posting this, others have disputed its veracity and proved that Obama wasn’t in Church on that day as alleged.. Stay tuned.
NewsMax responds;
Mr. Davis stands by his story that during one of the services he attended during the month of July, Senator Obama was present and sat through the sermon given by Rev. Wright as described in the story. Mr. Davis said Secret Service were also present in the church during Senator Obama’s attendance. Mr. Davis’ story was first published on Newsmax on August 9, 2007. Shortly before publication, Mr. Davis contacted the press office of Sen. Obama several times for comment about the Senator’s attendance and Rev. Wright’s comments during his sermon. The Senator’s office declined to comment.
According to Ronald Kessler, Obama Attended Hate America Sermon
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Obama claims he was completely unaware that the Reverend Wright’s trademark preaching style at the Trinity United Church of Christ targeted “white” America.
Contrary to Senator Barack Obama’s claim that he never heard his pastor Jeremiah A. Wright, Jr. preach hatred of America, Obama was in the pews last July 22 when the minister blamed the “white arrogance” of America’s Caucasian majority for the world’s suffering, especially the oppression of blacks.[..]
If Obama’s claims are true that he was completely unaware that Wright’s trademark preaching style at the Trinity United Church of Christ has targeted “white” America and Israel, he would have been one of the few people in Chicago to be so uninformed. Wright’s reputation for spewing hate is well known.
In fact, Obama was present in the South Side Chicago church on July 22 last year when Jim Davis, a freelance correspondent for Newsmax, attended services along with Obama. [See: ”Obama’s Church: Cauldron of Division.”]
In his sermon that day, Wright tore into America, referring to the “United States of White America” and lacing his sermon with expletives as Obama listened. Hearing Wright’s attacks on his own country, Obama had the opportunity to walk out, but Davis said the senator sat in his pew and nodded in agreement. [..]
Obama’s most famous celebrity backer, Oprah Winfrey began attending Wright’s church in 1984. Last year, Newsmax magazine reported that Winfrey abruptly stopped attending years ago, and suggested that she did so to distance herself from Wright’s inflammatory rhetoric. She soon found herself a target of Wright, who excoriated her for having broken with “traditional faith.”
Obama in, Oprah out.
Except, of course, Ronald Kessler is mistaken. A fact that you, Bill Kristol, and others could have found out by 5 minutes of web-searching, but apparently did not care to do.
Comment by Ralph Kramden — March 17, 2008 @ 8:37 am
Ralph, please provide the weblinks to whatever sources you claim disprove Kessler’s article. We’d like to make our own assessment of the “evidence”.
Comment by Bill Narvey — March 17, 2008 @ 9:04 am
Google is really quite simple to use, Bill. You should try it some time.
The inaccuracy of the NewsMax story is all over the internets this morning, and there are many links to try.
This one:
http://justoneminute.typepad.com/main/2008/03/i-dont-know-wha.html
seems to me to be well-sourced.
Comment by Ralph Kramden — March 17, 2008 @ 9:32 am
Thanks Kramden
It is more believable that Davis was with Obama in Church when such incendiary statements were made even if he was wrong on the date or wrong on the exact sermon it was then to believe as Obama would have you believe that he was “shocked”.
See Deconstructing Obama’s lawyerly evasions on Wright
But thanks for bringing this to our attention. We’ll see what NewsMax says.
Comment by Ted Belman — March 17, 2008 @ 9:45 am
Uh, what?
Would you care to diagram that sentence for me? It seems to be written in English, but my parser fails.
You seem to be saying that it really doesn’t matter what the facts are. If you truly believe that, I can’t help you.
Comment by Ralph Kramden — March 17, 2008 @ 9:51 am
Hmmm, I think I read an earlier version of your post at #4. This one is a little better.
I know the right will “deconstruct” all sorts of Obama statements, parsing them finer and finer to find something to attack somehow. Seems dishonest to me. I thought Obama’s statement here was straight-forward, not “lawyerly”.
Comment by Ralph Kramden — March 17, 2008 @ 9:55 am
The issue is whether Obama was in Church when the statement or a similar one was made. It may be that Davis only got the date wrong. You are saying he was lying on the event because he got the date wrong. It is you who are picking holes. I didn’t see you making a case in support of Obama’s not being there or not knowing.
Are you saying he was mistaken only on the date or are you saying Davis was never church with Obama during such a sermon.
Comment by Ted Belman — March 17, 2008 @ 10:15 am
It’s really pretty simple, Ted.
NewsMax reported “Obama was in the pews July 22″. Apparently, the truth is that he was NOT.
Clear enough?
Comment by Ralph Kramden — March 17, 2008 @ 10:37 am
Ralph, it seems that you bring the same mindset to bear that you condemn Ted and others for in their raising questions about Obama’s true feelings.
Let me say for my part, I do not doubt that Obama has no secret ties with Islam. I do believe his faith in Christianity is real.
That said, Obama’s denials do strain credibility:
1. It is highly likely that Rev. Wright has harboured the anti-White, anti-American and anti-semitic views that have recently come to our attention, long before 9/11. It just doesn’t sound credible that he suddenly had a kind of epiphany on and after 9/11.
2. Obama has described Rev. Wright as being like an uncle, a friend and an adviser to him over the years. Given Rev. Wright’s views, is it likely that Rev. Wright in his discussions with and advice to Obama over the years has managed to keep all these obnoxious views hidden from Obama? That hardly seems likely.
What is at least possible however is that Reverend Wright’s views have had some influence on Obama’s thinking.
3. Obama doubtless has relationships with his fellow congregants in Church and doubtless would find at least some occasion to discuss what Rev. Wright said from the pulpit or privately. Given Rev. Wright’s passionate, but unacceptable views on the matter of whites, America and Israel, it just seems highly improbable that Obama had no inkling of Rev. Wright’s views.
4. If a white candidate for President was found to have been a long time member of a church where the Pastor was an outspoken anti-Black racist, do you not agree that such candidate’s run for the Presidency would be over, regardless of how passionate and credible his denials were that he never heard that Pastor speak in such fashion, never heard other congregants speak about the Pastor’s views and in spite of a close relationship with that Pastor as both a friend and adviser, had never heard the Pastor express such racist views?
I could go on Ralph, but you get my drift.
Obama’s statement denouncing Rev. Wright’s views as abhorrent to him which you have provided the link to does sound heartfelt and credible.
Should Obama be taken at his word and Americans should let the matter drop?
Without concluding that Obama has been tainted by Rev. Wright’s views, it is not only fair, but in the best interests of America to continue to closely question Obama on these matters and give him every opportunity to make a convincing case that he indeed has not been influenced, subtly or otherwise by the thinking of Rev. Wright.
I raise these points for your consideration.
Comment by Bill Narvey — March 17, 2008 @ 10:38 am
Thank you Bill.
Do you know all of Rev. Wright’s views? Have you heard all of his sermons? Do you know whether these view of his are expressed regularly or only occasionally? The quotes I have seen are quite inflammatory, and Obama has denounced those sentiments. I do not hold Obama responsible for views he has neither expressed nor condoned. I won’t hold any man responsible for the views of his pastor or mentor or parents, for that matter.
An example - I happen to know that a conservative historian, a top advisor to Condi Rice, regularly attended a synagogue whose rabbi was an outspoken critic of the Bush administration policy in the Middle East. Would that be enough for him to lose credibility within the conservative community? I would hope not.
Hold a man responsible for the views he expresses and the actions that he takes.
Comment by Ralph Kramden — March 17, 2008 @ 11:43 am
I gotta laugh, Oprah distances herself from Wright, meanwhile she’s one of the main people aggressively advancing the heresy that people are gods! Which is worse?
Comment by soren — March 17, 2008 @ 1:05 pm
Soren,
I thought I was only one who noticed this about Orphah’s mission (spelling according to my perspective of the woman).
Comment by Mary Hogan — March 17, 2008 @ 1:09 pm
Get over it! How many times have I sat through a sermon by a rabbi that I thought was worthless, dumb, misguided…and said nothing. That aside, your turning an Israel site into American politics to blow the trumpet for McCain is plain silly. I do not want my kids to go to iraq to kget killed keeping the peace (ho ho) between Sunni and shia…36 died today as McCain and good Jew Lieberman visited to tell us how swell things are there. You like McCaion view: you send you grandkids, or kids or go yourself.Obama has disowned tyhe stupid rants of his now retired minister. Alas, you can not retire your ranting.
Comment by davidstill — March 17, 2008 @ 1:30 pm
davidstill,
Do you not read your words before you post them? This life is yours. if you aren’t learning from a Rabbi, and you determine this based on a Torah level and not self and lack of clarity, then you are the fool, not the Rabbi as this is your time and your choice. If a person is hungry, starving for truth, he will not just seek the first Rabbi down the pike.
I listen hours and hours, over and over again to Rabbi Kalatsky (Yad Avraham) Rabbi Wolfson, Rabbi Eisemann, Rabbi Sauer, and dozens and dozens of great Rabbis online. So if you are bored by a Rabbi, then you are either going to (close your ears everyone who is going to get angry with me) a Reform or Conservative Shul whose feet are mostly in Xtianity and desire to “fit in” with the multitude.
Just a great Devar Torah from a Rabbi with clarity can take a Parsha and teach a million shuirim. So, either you have never heard a great Rabbi, or your appetite is elsewhere.
I wish Lieberman would run with McCain, because his Torah could turn this country around. Obama only disowned Wright in February. Anyone who cannot see this sham for what it is, is a blind person. Obama is just another preacher with magias (motives) galore, not a good man in any sense of the term, certainly not an honest man.
I would like one reporter to have him say that the Koran is a book of slaughter and blood thirsty desires that lead to immorality that sees women as “virgins to be had.”
I would like one reporter to have Obama say, that white America is just a bunch of people trying to survive, and not an enemy.
I would like one reporter to have Obama say that Islam is a scourge to the people of this planet.
You see, Islam needs J. So he can say all he wants that he prays to J, and still be a Muslim.
Let him say that he believes that Yitzchak was the “chosen” son.
And then I will believe him, maybe.
Comment by Mary Hogan — March 17, 2008 @ 1:49 pm
By the way, as a baby I was Baptized Catholic. I am not a Catholic, and not a Xtian anymore. Also, I’ll probably offend everyone now, I hold Billy Graham culpable for convincing me at age twenty, that I was righteous and complete because I said a few words.
At 49, many years ago now, I realized that all this time I should have been working on my Torah and my character. Which does not mean, Orphah “free to be you and me.” The only freedom, is Truth. Working on my flaws is beyond difficult, but the one who really wins, is the one with the most Torah.
You may not like my viewpoint, but this is not a popularity contest.
Now I love every second of everyday. The “want” is under control. The desire is for Hashem.
Comment by Mary Hogan — March 17, 2008 @ 2:02 pm
Ralph,
Your claim to personally only judge a person by their own words and deeds, is commendable and I too share that view, but the weight of historical evidence is that society is not so tolerant and magnanomous as to ignore the people a specific person associates with.
In this case, I obviously only know what I have read and seen of Rev. J. Wright.
Rev. Wright has damned America, claimed white American brought 9/11 on themselves, engaged in anti-White diatribes, characterized Jesus as a black man whose death was at the hands of White Roman oppressors, with the aid of Jews, his association with the Sabeel Foundation, a prominent Christian Palestinian organization out of Jerusalem that has been promoting the perspective and assessment of anti-Israel Palestinian leadership and pro-Palestinian propagandists that tries unsuccessfully to make a distinction between Israel and Jews, though the distinction is without a difference, and his being responsible for his chuch awarding Louis Farakhan, an anti-semite of such notariety that even Blacks cannot deny what he is, a life achievement award.
All these statements and deeds of the Rev. Wright mark him for what he is.
That Obama claims Rev. Wright is like an uncle and has been a long time friend and adviser, all of Rev. Wright’s views combine to warrant putting B. Obama under the closest scrutiny to ensure that none of Rev. Wright’s unacceptable views have rubbed off on B. Obama.
I have not said that they have, but I do say America given these circumstances is entitled to demand more proof then just taking B. Obama at his word that he denounces Rev. Wright’s views.
As to you Davidstill, there is a big difference between a Rabbi waxing stupid in a religious inspired sermon devoid of advsing on a current political issue and a Rabbi who uses his pulpit to wax stupid in the field of politics by encouraging their congregants to become activists on one side or the other of the issue at hand.
From my experience Rabbis are loathe to use their pulpits for the purpose of instigating political action.
Just what kind of sermons therefore are you referring to that bored you to tears because the Rabbi’s words amounted to nothing at all?
As for America’s misfortunes in Iraq, due in large measure to the Bush administration’s faulty strategies and tactics, not even John McCain would disagree with you.
The issue however is not that America should leave Iraq, but how and when does America best get out of the mess in Iraq that it is in.
Many on this blog believe that Obama or Clinton in wanting, if they become President, to just pull American troops out of Iraq is about as shortsighted and dangerous to American interests as Pres. Bush was in going into Iraq without a clear and decisive exit strategy.
McCain appears to display far greater insight into the potential adverse, if not deadly consequences of pulling American troops out of Iraq too quickly and without a clear strategy for doing so.
Whether McCain’s strategy will work is a big question mark, but at least his strategy has the advantage of seeking to specifically address risks of America pulling troops out of Iraq, that neither Clinton nor Obama seem to recognize.
Comment by Bill Narvey — March 17, 2008 @ 2:16 pm
Obama’s willful connection and association with racists, anti-Semites, and Catholic haters (e.g. Al Sharpton, National Action Network, Louis Farrakhan, and MoveOn.org) is well known, the New Black Panther Party has a web page at my.barackobama.com, and Wright’s hate-filled positions have been known for years.
Comment by Bill Levinson — March 17, 2008 @ 3:48 pm
Obama is supposedly a regular church goer, yet he always just happens to have not been there every time Wright made a hate speech. We are supposed to believe that in 20 years as a member of TUCC, he has never heard such a sermon, even though he may well not have been at the church on this particular day. It simply defies credulity that he never heard Wright speak in this manner during all of those years.
Comment by Laura — March 17, 2008 @ 3:56 pm
I just posted a correction by NewsMax
Comment by Ted Belman — March 17, 2008 @ 4:41 pm
Nicely put Mary… Straight, honest talk is in short supply these days. I don’t have to agree with everything you say to admire this kind of talk.
As for Ralph… Another one who’s training to be a lawyer. Ralphie… we’re not living in some giant court-of-law. Some of us use what’s known as “common sense.” We figure that if a man goes willingly to hear someone speak (and has his children baptised by this person) then the chances are that he respects and admires this person. Perhaps not, but like everything in life, chances are…
So don’t keep on patronizing us about the whens and wherefores of the matter, and what time of the day and which month of the year Obama actually heard (or didn’t hear) this guff. Perhaps you could tell us - just to exercise your superior intellect - what you were doing at exactly this time last year… or even four years ago. In other words, chances are (that phrase again) Obama LIKES Uncle Jerry. And if you like someone that much, chances are you take what they say somewhat seriously.
I hate it when someone pretends to me more intelligent and moral than me!!!!
Comment by keelie — March 17, 2008 @ 5:48 pm
I need a voice in the status quo, keelie.
I have incredible Yiras Shamayim (awe of heaven) and Yiras, Ahavas Hashem (awe, and love of Hashem) and so I have been praying for hours.
Comment by Mary Hogan — March 17, 2008 @ 6:55 pm
davidstill, you worthless troll, obama CHOSE to stay with a church for 20 years led by a vicious bigot, plus the fact that wright has been his closest mentor. His comments were not simply “worthless” and “dumb”, they were hateful. And screw you as well, ralph kramden. It matters not whether barrack was at church on that particular day. It is beyond belief that in the 20 years of his membership that he has never heard other such similar hateful sermons. I am tired of people saying barrack isn’t responsible for wright’s views. He is responsible for choosing to remain part of his church despite wright’s hatemongering. He cannot separate himself. You ralph and davidstill are supreme hypocrits. I don’t doubt for a second that if a white presidential candidate had such a pastor and was his closest mentor, that you and other likeminded folks would be accusing that candidate of being a racist. I’m tired of this obama creep getting a free pass. Face the facts, that he shares wright’s hatreds or he could not stomach being a member of his church and sitting through his sermons.
Comment by Laura — March 17, 2008 @ 9:19 pm
Bull, there is nothing heartfelt and credible about his phony statement. If Wright’s views were so abhorrent to him, he could not have remained a member of his church for 20 years and have him as his closest mentor. I’m not buying it. There is no possible way obama was unaware of wright’s views until now.
Comment by Laura — March 17, 2008 @ 9:22 pm
This is to David Still: you are a fool because, what ever, wherever, and whom ever, you owe a debt of gratitude to this country. You enjoy all of the liberties granted because someone, just like your son, was willing to put his neck on the line. Nothing is perfect about the USA; however, it’s much better than what’s offered by most of the countries around us.
Israel is another whom you would not want to see your son fight for. If he is 18 or older, allow him to determine what’s right or wrong. Just because you are a coward to the nth degree, don’t make your son a part of it.
I’m not one to crow about what I have done, but I have fought in Korea and in Israel and I am damn proud that I could do my part.
Comment by Ed D — March 18, 2008 @ 12:54 pm