Israel air strikes kill 205 in Hamas Gaza compounds.
DEBKAfile Special Report, December 27, 2008, 3:04 PM (GMT+02:00)
Israeli sources report 154 killed, 270 injured and thousands of shock victims following the waves of Israel Israeli Air Force planes which destroyed Hamas security headquarters in Gaza City, and compounds, police stations and ports across the Gaza Strip. Several Hamas commanders were killed in the bombardment of a Hamas military passing-out ceremony. Among them was a police chief Tawfiq Jabber.
IAF strike on Gaza is Israel’s version of ’shock and awe’
By Amos Harel and Avi IssacharoffPalestinians: At least 205 dead, over 200 hurt in IAF Gaza strikes
Hamas and other Palestinian factions have ordered its “fighters to avenge Israeli attacks.”
The Israeli military spokesman said the Gaza operation is “just beginning.” An Israeli official said all Air Force planes had returned safely to base but the operation carried out in response to Palestinian terrorist attacks would be expanded and intensified if needed. They went into action a second time Saturday against missile teams which hit killed a woman in Netivot and bombarded Ashkelon from northern Gaza.
Egypt has condemned Israel for its military attack and mobilized its rescue and medical services in Sinai, including hospitals for aid to casualties for the Israeli air bombardment of Gaza. Egyptian ambulances are standing by at the Rafah crossing to transport wounded Hamas operatives.
Defense minister Ehud Barak has placed Sderot and locations surrounding the Gaza Strip on an emergency footing.
The Israeli air attack launching some 40 missiles began 11.00 a.m. local time Saturday, Dec. 27, eight days after Hamas terminated the informal Gaza ceasefire by showering missiles and mortar rounds on Israel day by day and targeting 200,000 civilians.
Last week, the Israeli cabinet gave the Israeli military the green light for reprisals as Palestinian missile attacks escalated, 13 mortar rounds fired Friday, when Israel allowed 90 trucks of food and medicines to cross into the Gaza Strip.
Since Israel evacuated the Gaza Strip in 2005, the Palestinians have fired 5,000 missiles.
Quote from AFP (via Yahoo):
Phew - pretty impressive… I guess it even surpasses the mass killings of just about everyone, everywhere, over the centuries, when the Muslims invaded.
Note the use of the words “spiritual guide” by AFP. Gives a nice feeling for the chap’s wisdom and gentleness.
Obviously AFP wouldn’t recognize a real “spiritual guide” if they found one in their consommé.
Comment by keelie — December 27, 2008 @ 9:56 am
Peskin and Friends:
—
Go Fuck yourselves!!!!!
Comment by yamit82 — December 27, 2008 @ 9:57 am
Question is will Hizbolla join the party? I hope so!
Other than lip service everybody is celebrating Hamas getting it stuck to them. Especially Egypt and Jordan. ( at least the little King and his family of elves.)
Comment by yamit82 — December 27, 2008 @ 10:03 am
Egypt has already placed blame openly on Hamas.
Comment by yamit82 — December 27, 2008 @ 10:11 am
what’s happening now:
http://www.jpost.com/
http://haaretz.com/
http://www.infolive.tv/en/home
http://www.ynetnews.com/home/0,7340,L-3083,00.html
Comment by yamit82 — December 27, 2008 @ 10:27 am
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Comment by Nancy — December 27, 2008 @ 10:32 am
Air strikes against bank of targets will continue for a few days and if Hamas capitulates and an agreement is reached on our terms, maybe there won’t be a land invasion but if not then the only way to stop attacks against us is to take and hold land. That could be bloody especially for the maggots and I don’t think the final IDF decision is reaced yet but will be a rolling operation where a certain points decisions will be made accordingly. It is better to punch and kick than to be punched and kicked ALWAYS! Especially Nancy!!
Comment by yamit82 — December 27, 2008 @ 10:36 am
LOL!!! Yamit, I now declare you an Honorary Glaswegian!!!!
Comment by keelie — December 27, 2008 @ 11:14 am
But not disproportionate enough…
France should attend to its periodic burning cars problem; they didn’t even get the “proportionate” level.
Comment by keelie — December 27, 2008 @ 11:17 am
Yamit:
Bloodthirsty, decrepit old fart. You are an irrelevant despicable blotch that simply pollutes cyberspace.
Comment by celia — December 27, 2008 @ 11:22 am
The only reason that the Israeli cabinet approved/ordered a reprisal attack at this point is because the leftist in the Israeli govenment are scared to death that if they didn’t they would lose many seats to the Nationalist camp and Feiglin.
After the upcoming election if the leftist are still able to form a coalition govenment with Bibi the capo then the reprisals will stop.
Comment by nesivos — December 27, 2008 @ 11:24 am
How do you know that? I find Yamit refreshingly candid… which is more than I can say for you, whoever you are.
Comment by keelie — December 27, 2008 @ 11:25 am
Oh - and celia (whoever you are) - I guarantee that if you had a gun on a table near you, and one of your admirable Palestinian thugs made a move toward you to cut your throat (or worse), you couldn’t get to that gun fast enough, to blow him away.
So don’t be such a goddam hypocrite!
Comment by keelie — December 27, 2008 @ 11:29 am
I can foresee a situation where Egypt kills more of the roaches than we do when the pressure to get into Egyptian Rafiach or blow up the wall between Gaza and Sinai in order to escape the strip. I do believe that Egypt will try to protect her border and sanity by keeping them bottled up in Gaza. GAZA IS NOT LEBANON!!!
How will the Hamas Mentors Iran and Saudi Arabia going to support their guys? Anybody have an opinion on this? Maybe: Peskin? Gordon? Hertzberg? Palworthy? Celia? Chucky?
Comment by yamit82 — December 27, 2008 @ 11:30 am
When you turn your home into an Islamic terrorist camp whose only objective is to destroy its neighbors and spread jihad; how could any leader be stupid enough to suggest that defending one’s country and people against such terror directed against them is “disproportionate”?
Go ahead, Israel, let them have it and stop them from spreading their religion of hate, war and terror. If Hezbollah dares to fire one missile from Lebanon, settle the score with those terrorists too who are one and the same as all the others with their weapons and marching orders from Iran, Russia and Syria.
Leaders who dare criticize Israel - remember that Israel is the canary in the coal mine and if the terrorists are not stopped now, your people will probably be targeted by the same pigs whose only goal is to kill in all parts of the world: America, Europe, Russia, India and everywhere else where freedom, peace and reason clashes with the doctrine of hate and Islamism.
Comment by Gary — December 27, 2008 @ 11:31 am
I guess they’ve finished opening their Christmas gifts from the Arab League and now have time to speak:
Unfortunately, if and when Israel rids the planet of Hamas, these same meddling anti-Semites will use it as an excuse to push Israel even harder for land concessions. It’s enough to make one sick.
Comment by Charles Martel — December 27, 2008 @ 11:34 am
Celia, the reincarnation of a Parisian whore from Nazi occupation days.
Comment by Shy Guy — December 27, 2008 @ 11:44 am
Celia - Shy Guy is another refreshingly candid person…
Comment by keelie — December 27, 2008 @ 11:49 am
No objections to the bloodthirsty or even fart but decrepit old? Now here you are making assumptions that may or may not be accurate. Give you a hint, Janis Joplin was just over ten yrs my senior so that leaves decrepit? I am a fitness fanatic, I run 2-4 miles a day play a mean game of squash and handball, went to college on a sports scholarship ( football and wrestling). and except for a year in and out of hospital because of shrapnel wound I have always maintained reasonable fitness. How about yourself? Oh, I should add my lady friends have never complained. How about you? Can you say the same? any gender will do.
Comment by yamit82 — December 27, 2008 @ 11:49 am
celia: your Iranian friends are holding your wrap
Comment by Charles Martel — December 27, 2008 @ 11:52 am
When you analyse this quote, you begin to understand who wrote the original Monty Python scripts…
Comment by keelie — December 27, 2008 @ 11:52 am
Run away! Run away!
Comment by Charles Martel — December 27, 2008 @ 11:57 am
These imbeciles can join peskin in Dubrovnik:
Fuck you especially, Tony Blair, who got a quid pro quo from Bush to push for a Palestinian state in exchange for British support in the Iraq War.
Britain: the most perfidious nation on Earth.
Comment by Charles Martel — December 27, 2008 @ 12:17 pm
The Ministry of Silly Talks.
Comment by Shy Guy — December 27, 2008 @ 12:19 pm
International Reactions:
Looks like the whole world blames Israel with the exception of the U.S. - while the runner-ups are the Europeans who call for “maximum restraint”
Comment by RandyTexas — December 27, 2008 @ 12:29 pm
And then there’s this from Ireland, the most anti-Semitic Western nation on Earth:
Comment by Charles Martel — December 27, 2008 @ 1:01 pm
all the worlds diplomats are presently on vacation till after the new year and I don’t know how many would cancel their holidays and roast turkey diners for the poor Palis. In any event it will take time to convene the UNSC. This seems timed as a desperate attempt by the left and Livni to boost their falling poll numbers. I fear that in the end it will be much like Lebanon at least in terms of results.
Samson Blinded has posted a new item, ‘IDF operation in Gaza: Israeli elections
show’ I rcvd by email
The IDF attack on Gaza stems from convergence of everyone’s interests. Kadima
and Avodah would have lost the elections handsomely if Hamas had continued to
pound Israel with rockets at the December rate of dozens a day. A successful
campaign in Gaza seriously improves the leftists’ chances in elections. Fatah
stood to lose its president as his term expires in two weeks; defeating Hamas
military is Fatah’s only option for Abbas’ continued rule beyond his legal term.
Hamas failed to deliver prosperity to Gaza, and military success against
Zionists is its only option to remain popular. Syria needs to show its strength
in a peripheral war with Israel before launching direct talks with her. Egypt
loves to show the West that no one else can sustain local peace: once the
Egyptian-mediated Israeli-Hamas talks failed, war ensued. Iran has to embroil
Israel into a Lebanon-type military debacle in order to distract Jews from
attacking Natanz.
The IDF operation shows that people don’t learn from their mistakes; not
Jews, at any rate. We had exactly the same problem in two Lebanese wars: to
conquer is easy, but to maintain the quiet is impossible. Israel can bomb
everything into dust, but guerrillas lurk from devastated buildings. They have
the advantage of surprise, human shield, and human rights. Most of all, they
have time on their side: in a few days and probably immediately, the world will
start pressing Israel into ceasefire. Israeli Arabs already erupted in riots.
Hamas will come out from tunnels and claim the victory. The US-trained Fatah
battalions would prove powerless against the lawless Hamas guerrillas – or
transform into a lawless bunch themselves.
Israeli attack can destroy Hamas shacks. What about PIJ, PLFP, and PRC who
don’t have many buildings to retaliate against? There are militant clans such
as Dughmushes which span residential neighborhoods; conceivably, an army
concerned with human rights is powerless against them.
There are several ways to defeat deeply entrenched guerrillas. The most common
historically and reliable way is depopulating their areal; Israeli government
has no guts to do that.
Then, there is a police way: occupy the place and start hunting down the
militants. Sharon did that successfully when he was Gaza’s military governor.
The police operation is inherently long-term, requires full control of the
territory and tens of thousands of agents. In short, the disengagement should be
reversed, Gaza re-occupied, and Jewish soldiers endangered daily in urban
combat. Israeli government has no guts for that, either. Leftists believe
everything has a solution, and loath to admit some situations take centuries to
settle down.
Also, there’s an SLA way, or quislings’. Israel propped South Lebanon Army
to do the most dirty work against the Palestinians. But in Gaza we lack natural
associates, every group is against us. If Jews prop Fatah, Palestinian voters
won’t forget the collaboration; a short-term victory would spell long-term
defeat for Fatah. Even if Fatah fights and – unrealistically – destroys
Hamas, it cannot touch PLFP and PRC which are the PLO-type secular nationalist
fighters.
Machiavelli also discussed a theoretical option of winning an enemy to your
side with goodness, but I cannot imagine what Jewish goodness short of sailing
off to Canada would placate Hamas.
Whether Hezbollah would support Hamas with concurrent attacks is a matter of
guesswork. Probably, not, as Syria doesn’t want to antagonize Israel too much,
and Lebanese government – now the one with Hezbollah – is afraid of massive
retaliation. Palestinian terrorist groups in Lebanon can launch rockets at
Israel sporadically.
Israeli operation in Gaza will confer international legitimacy on Hamas the way
the Second Lebanese War conferred it on Hezbollah. From a terrorist group, Hamas
becomes a recognized combatant, thus a legal army in its own right. Today was
the first time that the prime minister’s office confirmed that a ceasefire
with Hamas had in fact existed. Before then, Israel denied any formal agreement
with Hamas, and referred to it as an understanding only.
In military terms, the operation is very far from being successful yet.
Three-hundred-plus Palestinian casualties already started provoking the
world’s outcry even though the collateral deaths are remarkably few.
Destroying all the security compounds in Gaza hardly diminished Hamas arsenals
– the Muslim group would be stupid to store its weapons inside the obvious
targets of Israeli attacks. The demolition of all the police installations in
Gaza increases chaos and works against the year-long Hamas attempts to instill
any kind of order in the unruly territory.
After the first shock, Palestinian guerrillas will re-group and ready
themselves for the IDF invasion. At best, the army won’t repeat its glaring
errors of 2006 such as sending tanks in urban combat without helicopter cover
and will sap the road before the advancing tanks. But Hamas stocked significant
arsenals of anti-aircraft rockets useful against Israeli helicopters. IDF
didn’t equip most of the tanks with active defense, and they remain vulnerable
to cheap RPGs.
Hamas will increase its rocket attacks on Israel and, more importantly, their
precision and deadliness. Today’s rocket toll of ten casualties is very high
by the ceasefire period’s standards. As IDF pushes rocket launching squads
away from the border, they will start using deadlier Grad-type missiles.
As the IAF grows out of targets in Gaza, Olmert’s government would have to
declare an interim victory and accept a ceasefire, or invade Gaza. The last
option is not election-friendly for the Kadima because of the personnel losses
and absence of clear-cut victory. A large-scale invasion of Gaza is unlikely:
Israel will stick to the discredited shock-and-awe tactics.
Comment by yamit82 — December 27, 2008 @ 1:09 pm
My sentiment exactly. Disobeying Washington, Brussels,London, Paris, etc.? Last time I looked Israel was a sovereign nation with the absolute right to protect its citizens. Too damn bad if it doesn’t sit well in the world’s capitals.
Just who the hell are you Celia? Do you have a problem with someone who is actually a proud Jew and wants to fight back? Do you prefer the image of the weak, frightened Jew who is always being victimized?
Comment by Laura — December 27, 2008 @ 1:12 pm
The folks in DC, Paris, London, Brussels etc. are not Israel’s rulers and thus have absolutely no say in the matter. The Jews will not be sacrificial lambs in order for the west to curry favor with the islamic world which they depend upon for fuel and funds.
Comment by Laura — December 27, 2008 @ 1:14 pm
Yamit, my hat is off to you. Like me, you are a Korean vet who understands military strategy. We, still, beleive in a strong military who fights to defend our freedoms.
Comment by Ed D — December 27, 2008 @ 2:46 pm
A personal message to Celie, Peskin and all of the other wimps, who would walk into the gas chambers without a complaint: In this world, in order to survive, one must be strong and resolute in the quest for peace and security. It is people, such as yourselves, who feel comfortable being the Dhimmi for people who are trying to destroy the Jews, worldwide. We don’t need nor want your kind in our society, so piss off.
Comment by Ed D — December 27, 2008 @ 2:53 pm
B”H
Laura from your mouth to G-ds’ ear!!!
Comment by yamit82 — December 27, 2008 @ 2:59 pm
Re: #6 and #7, here is where to report “Nancy’s” abusive (spam) postings so she will lose her affiliate status with Clickbank.net. http://www.clickbank.com/reportproblem.html. I have done so.
Comment by Bill Levinson — December 27, 2008 @ 3:53 pm
“Palestinians: At least 205 dead, over 200 hurt in IAF Gaza strikes”
That is barely a good start, but at least it is a start. Air Marshal Sir Arthur Harris is an outstanding source of advice on how Israel should handle these terrorists: “They have sowed the wind, and now they shall reap the whirlwind.”
It is too bad that he did not call for restraint when Hamas was firing rockets and mortar shells, so he should be ignored. Israel should deliver the maximum possible violence, not the maximum possible restraint.
Comment by Bill Levinson — December 27, 2008 @ 3:59 pm
Yamit: You claim to have fought in Korea, which was 58 years ago-assuming you were around 20 at the time -thath makes you roughly 78-which eminently qualifies you as an old, decrepit fart or to use a highly descriptive yiddish adjective- an alte kocker. With a crumudgeon mood to match that expression perfectly.
Your cohort Shy Guy, A.K.A. Yamit-light makes an excellent side kick- for you. You make the perfect Siamese twins.
Martel,the midwest meshuganar, who keeps hallucinating foul smelling lizards from Dubrovnik is an intersting case. Some time ago he offered to make a wager with me for the princely some of $60,000 that Israel and/or America will attack Iran some time after the U.S. election and the time the new President assumes his position. Foolishly,I did not accept the bet. The important fact is that while Israel is now busy attacking Gaza, it is being diverted from the more serious problem of Iran. Which is precisely what the Gazan provocation was all about. That window of opportunity is closing and closing fast.
America gave Israel the green light to attack and it will signal when to desist, as it has in every mideast conflict. We all know who the puppetmaster is in this situation.
And about the same time that this is happening, America has a very new crises to deal with. The redeployment of Pakistani troops to the Indian border provides the Taliban and Al Qaeda much more freedom to act on the Afghanistan front. This is a war that is not going well for Nato with mounting casulties, and with no end in sight.And once again, that was what the Mumbai massacre was trying to achieve,diverting Pakistani troops away from the Afghanistan campaign.
I know of course that none of you have the foggiest notion of what I write. It is just a lot of wasted key-strokes and time. But what the hell, no harm in trying to educate a bunch of dimwitted bozos.
Comment by h peskin — December 27, 2008 @ 4:34 pm
Levinson:
Sorry you are disappointed with the body count to date. Why don’t we follow the sage advice of our Iconic 2nd world war hero, Sir Winston Churchill,
http://www.fpp.co.uk/bookchapters/WSC/gaswar.html
Comment by h peskin — December 27, 2008 @ 4:46 pm
Talking about “dimwitted bozos” -
Peskin - you honestly believe that the Pakistani army is waging an intense war (or any kind of war) against the Taliban?!!!!!!!! That they are NATO’s loyal partners? That their absence from the “war zone” will make a difference?
Comment by keelie — December 27, 2008 @ 5:03 pm
Peskin you stupid fool there are still American troops serving in Korea. I served much after the truce ending the Korean police action but served there for 18 months much later. so dummy figure it out. Then you would have to calculate at what age I entered the service which is impossible for you to know. Quit trying to play gotcha, I only give the snippets that I want to and nothing else. You must lead a very boring and empty life to devote so much time and effort in this. Poor soul or empty soul assuming you still have one.
Sorry you are disappointed with the body count to date.
The count has risen since: according to them at 225 DEAD and over 400 WOUNDED: Just heard chopppers flying over my house with lights out so I don’t know how many but they made a lot of noise on their way in so by morning the total hopefully will be higher, I hope so at least.
To paraphrase Harris no number of dead Palis are worth a finger nail of any Jew. You see Peskin besides my natural solidarity with any worthy Jew and would do all in my power to help and certainly to defend them, when it comes to my enemy I want him either put out of action one way or another and if being dead is the way so be it. I have no conscience with killers of Jewish babies, children, old or young men and women. BETTER THEM THAN US, BETTER THEM THAN ME! YOU WOULD PRESENT FOR ME A DILEMMA. Some years back five of those maggots tried to kill me and were wiped out instead, You see Pesky old boy I lived among them for over ten years and I know them. You idealize Crap and defend it by elevating in your mind shit into sweet essences. Vengeance is a beautiful thing and a very Jewish precept.
Comment by yamit82 — December 27, 2008 @ 5:31 pm
Peskin,
You can’t stick to your premises first you say we wouldn’t dare attack because our EU and American bosses would never permit it and then when we do you say that we will leave when these same bosses demand it? strange amount of hate you hold for us, your wet dreams are exploding while you are wide awake. Iran will have her day in due time, don’t second guess us you are not clever enough or smart enough.
The Israeli public sentiment and maybe our elections have more sway on our leaders and even the leftist socialist kind than those Cowards in Europe and a very confused and diminishing power like America.
Comment by yamit82 — December 27, 2008 @ 5:40 pm
Yamit: As you might know, there are roughly 16, 000 military personnel in the Hamas forces. killing 200-300 police and cadets would have little impact on Hamas’s ability to continue attacking.
What was the main impetus for Israel’s actions, was the imtelligence reports that Hamas had acquired and was deploying long range missiles able to reach important Israeli targets. It is much too early to know whether the present Israeli actions will hinder Hamas’s ability to use these missiles. Most stategists claim that without a ground attack any Israeli initiatives will only have a short term effect.
Comment by h peskin — December 27, 2008 @ 5:48 pm
Re: #37
The Palestinians have in fact set the precedent for chemical warfare by using poisoned weapons, in the form of rat poison on the shrapnel in their nail bombs. The use of poison on weapons like swords and arrows, and later on bayonets, has always been considered dishonorable and barbaric, and it is significant that Palestinians are among the few societies that indulge in this practice. I doubt that Israel will actually gas the Palestinians but, if it did, it would be a reasonable form of retaliation/reprisal.
Change “London” to “Tel Aviv,” and “Germany” to “Gaza,” and this sounds like sound advice. If my own country were fighting for its life, I would want someone like Churchill, or General Patton, in charge (as opposed to Lyndon Johnson or George W. Bush, who were unwilling to wage total war). If Churchill or Patton had been in charge on 9/11, nuclear weapons would probably have been used on Al Qaida just to make an example of them.
Comment by Bill Levinson — December 27, 2008 @ 5:57 pm
Levinson:
STRANGELY ENOUGH, NANCY’S SPAM POSTING IS INFINITELY MORE INTELLIGENT THAN THE VAST MAJORITY OF POSTS FOUND ON THIS SITE. AND I INCLUDE YOURSELF IN THIS CATEGORY.
Comment by celia — December 27, 2008 @ 6:00 pm
The same news report just upped the Arab death count to 239 and over 700 wounded, don’t know how many of the 700 are critical.
I have to agree with you in that a few hundred dead Arabs will not change much and if the operation goes no further we would then have accomplished nothing strategically. The Israeli government has refrained from announcing publicly what are their war objectives( at least they learned something from the last war in Lebanon) other than to punish Hamas hopefully enough that they cry uncle and agree to long tern Hudna or something like it where they don’t shoot at our towns and cities. This will never succeed as they will be smarting but still there in Gaza to be reconstituted and continue when they deem it opportune for them. Therefore it is obvious that this mini war(so far) was predicated on the political needs of Barak and Livni although it was planned for the end of Jan to dovetail with our elections in mid Feb, for max political effect. Now they have to keep it going for much longer (and kill many more Arabs than they originally intended) and be seen to succeed in the yet unstated objectives.. At some point they will declare victory return home and hope the pubic buys their narrative. If things don’t work to plan then it could really be disastrous politically for them. This war while justified is being fought for internal political personal fortunes and here in lies the danger. The Arabs must be occupied and policed 24/7 or driven out of Gaza for as long as they will be allowed in place they will seek war and conflict. I don’t see a third option.
Comment by yamit82 — December 27, 2008 @ 6:26 pm
Count yourself in celia…
Comment by keelie — December 27, 2008 @ 6:43 pm
This is old news and if that were the real reason then we should have invaded a year or more ago. Believe me when I say it is mostly for internal Israeli politics. The Left will loose unless Livni and Barak change the perception and appear to in the end succeed in as yet announced war objectives. They wanted to initiate a war much later in Jan. so as to dovetail directly with the elections but Hamas and the polls were not very kind to them and their plans were forced to be moved up which in the end will extend the war and require us to kill more Arabs than they had planned for. Assuming that this round ends within the next 2 weeks that means that the electorate will be given a whole month to evaluate the success or failure of this action. In not stating publicly war aims this government has flexibility to declare any result as a victory as will the Arabs. We and they have different standards for what constitutes victory and after last Lebanon fiasco the public will not buy a phony victory .
An enemy like Hamas unless liquidated , driven out of the territories, or occupied and tightly policed, Will in a short time we will have another more deadly and costly new round. Any result short of those three conditions will allow an implacable enemy an opportunity to reconstitute themselves and come back with even more determination and with more deadly weapons.
Comment by yamit82 — December 27, 2008 @ 6:52 pm
Celia you are today even more nasty and aggressive than your usual unpleasant self? Is it that time of month again or are you past that period in your life?
Comment by yamit82 — December 27, 2008 @ 6:59 pm
Ted I lost I think to your filter 4 posts in a row on this thread can you retrieve and repost?
Comment by yamit82 — December 27, 2008 @ 7:59 pm
Peskin, you know shit about military tactics. You say that 200+ dead among the palis means nothing. The fact is that the huge majority of those are militants, but the primary purpose of the bombing is to destroy infrastructure which occured. This campaign will be continuing until the IDF troops will put boots on the ground in Gaza. Only the Lord knows what pressure the International community will put on Israel, but I hope that the Israel politicians ignore them. Many of them are helpless wimps, such as yourself. You strike me as someone who has never had a fight in your life so you would not know courage. Like Yamit, I, also, was in combat in Korea and I saw many heroes that died there.
Comment by Ed D — December 27, 2008 @ 8:08 pm
You left out the likelihood of mad cow disease.
Comment by Shy Guy — December 27, 2008 @ 11:59 pm
Simple math says that Israel needs to kill another 15,700 or so.
The top picture at http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/129054 looks like what an Israeli shopping mall or synagogue looks like after a Palestinian sets off a bomb, except the bodies on the ground are Hamas for a change. Now the Hamas terrorists know (at least the ones who were wounded and hopefully maimed for life–the latter is something I would never wish on an enemy SOLDIER who is just wearing the wrong color uniform, by the way) what it feels like. Now the Pallies can have their own X-ray pictures of bodies that are riddled with various metallic fragments, and then maybe their primitive brains can connect this to their own violent actions.
Comment by Bill Levinson — December 28, 2008 @ 12:59 am
16,000 hamas militiamen is misleading as 80% of all Gazans have firearms, its a phallic thing with them (Arab concept of manliness) They pay up to 25 thousand dollars for M16 with scope. That by the way is the cost to them of a small house.) This is true for all Israeli citizen Arabs and of course under our law they are all illegal but just go to a Muslin wedding and they all come out and from a distance it sounds like WW3 has broken out. The Israeli police allow it by not enforcing the law. They are afraid these good and loyal citizens might resist giving up their prized possession. One day these same illegal weapons will be used against us.
everyone with a weapon or a green diaper on his head should be targeted and eliminated.
Comment by yamit82 — December 28, 2008 @ 3:50 am
Celia lighten up.
.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_fwwl9VwxmM&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SECLekbQ41g
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dxHQYv3NxV4
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NWp8ZEOZKfU&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BC5gj6jdUaA
Comment by yamit82 — December 28, 2008 @ 5:44 am
Levinson:Bill Levinson keeps quoting General Harris (Butcher), British 2nd world war general who favored saturation bombing of German cities to exact maximum civilian casualties. Bill’s view is that Harris’s strategy ought to be the IDF stategy in this current round of hostilities. Sorry Bill that is not the way it is going to happen. Olmert made it clear that Israel’s battle is not against the Pal people but quite specifically directed at Hamas leadership. This morning Israel opened up the border for humanitarian aid, This is hardly 1939-45 WORLD WAR II- this is not total war- the objectives are in no way parallel to what was in effect during that latter period. Israel has strong American support with the proviso that civilian casualties be kept to a minimum. The west in general is very nervous about the Arab and Muslim world exploding as a result of the Arab-Israeli conflict.The west has still unfinished business in Iraq, Afghanistan, the Indian-Pakistan conflict is worrying (both sides having nuclear weapons).
The Iran nuclear issue is very much unresolved.
What is happening on the ground in Gaza is still wrapped up in the shroud of war. Which quite simply means, aside from much destruction, we really don’t have exact information as to how the war is proceeding.It does seem that Israel will be mounting a ground invasion . The danger here is that if it should result in Israel getting bogged down in a endless, protracted guerrrilla war, there is no winning scenario. Lebanon was proof of the great hazards of getting into such a situation.
None of the above conform to the views of most Israpundit contrib. I seriously doubt that this would cause any concerns to the any decision makers in the mideast.
Comment by h peskin — December 28, 2008 @ 1:57 pm
Re: #54
If it is not total war, it should be. Thousands of Katyusha and other rockets is total war, and the Palestinians therefore deserve total war in return, with their unconditional surrender as the ultimate objective just as it was for the Nazis. Note that, after the Nazis surrendered, the war criminals who were responsible for the Holocaust and other atrocities were promptly tried and hanged, which is what should happen to Hamas’ leaders as well.
Re: “The west in general is very nervous about the Arab and Muslim world exploding as a result of the Arab-Israeli conflict.” The Muslim world does not need a Palestinian-Israeli conflict to explode, as shown by the Mumbai massacre. There is in fact a real danger that India will declare war on Pakistan because of that, and other provocations, and note that both countries have nuclear weapons. The prospect of those weapons’ use is, in fact, why they might not be at war right now.
Comment by Bill Levinson — December 28, 2008 @ 4:41 pm
Bill,
1) Although I completely agree with Yamit, as usual, and with you for the most part, I disagree with targeting civilians as a principle or strategy. Israel is still stronger than the Arabs and doesn’t need to resort to that. This is THEIR mental illness, not ours.
2) You are very wrong about WW2 war criminals. Most of them (including some of the worst) have NEVER been tried, hanged or even imprisoned. THOUSANDS of German, Hungarian, Ukrainian, Croatian and Bielorussian Nazis were hired by the US, British, Egyptian, Syrian and Russian intelligence services. Even Eichmann receivedd American taxpayer money to work for the CIA. This is well-documented.
3) Some key Israeli laborites were also involved in the Nazi crimes against Hungarian Jews, especially Moshe Sharett and the gang who covered up for Rudolf Kastner. No Israeli party has a more rotten history than Labor, not even Likud.
Comment by Alex Eisenberg — December 28, 2008 @ 5:38 pm
Levinson:
The problem with most of Israpundit posts are that there is an excess of of wishful thinking, hopes and passionate desires rather than some good old fashioned down- to- earth dealing with reality. The world is not controlled by small countries like Israel. The state would never exist witout the consistent assistance of outside nations like the U.S. So forget the if only, it should be, and why can’t it be. You can dream forever and it will change nothing.
Comment by palworthy — December 28, 2008 @ 6:09 pm
Re: #56 “You are very wrong about WW2 war criminals. Most of them (including some of the worst) have NEVER been tried, hanged or even imprisoned. THOUSANDS of German, Hungarian, Ukrainian, Croatian and Bielorussian Nazis were hired by the US, British, Egyptian, Syrian and Russian intelligence services. Even Eichmann receivedd American taxpayer money to work for the CIA. This is well-documented.” You forgot the Soviet war criminals, especially Stalin, who were never tried or hanged.
Comment by Bill Levinson — December 28, 2008 @ 6:54 pm
Mr. Palworthy,
What makes you so confident of superpower infallibility? Seems like you’re not very well informed.
Once the trade of advanced weapons became common place on this planet, all countries who own powerful weapons are potentially dangerous. This is not only the case of the US, France or Russia, but also Israel, Pakistan, India, China, Saudi Arabia and Iran.
The only thing that prevents Israel from crashing the Islamonazis at home, once and forever, is the Israeli political elite, who couldn’t care less for the people who stupidly empower them. The Israeli public is mostly ignorant and is fed imaginary fears of international political foes. If Israel did what it has to do and fast, all it would face would be a couple of usual UN resolutions.
Israel has no friends, so it has nothing to lose.
Comment by Alex Eisenberg — December 28, 2008 @ 7:09 pm
If only we could bomb the crap out of Iran like TODAY before that Obamaination screws up things worse!
I hope Israel kills every terrorist group around!
Comment by Michael Sunstar — December 29, 2008 @ 1:08 am
Applause to Israel as I sing:
DEATH TO ISRAEL’S ENEMIES!
Comment by Michael Sunstar — December 29, 2008 @ 1:09 am
Thus saith the LORD: For three transgressions of Gaza, yea, for four, I will not reverse it: because they carried away captive a whole captivity, to deliver them up to Edom. 7 So will I send a fire on the wall of Gaza, and it shall devour the palaces thereof; 8 And I will cut off the inhabitant from Ashdod, and him that holdeth the sceptre from Ashkelon; and I will turn My hand against Ekron, and the remnant of the Philistines shall perish, saith the Lord GOD. Amos1:6-8
Comment by yamit82 — December 29, 2008 @ 4:14 am
Interesting poll reply on last nights news re: Israeli attack of Gaza : 81 % support the action and 69% don’t believe in the end it will change anything.
Comment by yamit82 — December 29, 2008 @ 4:27 am
The left as a block now have majority and Barak, labor and kadima have risen in the election polls: This ans.is why they decided to attack now before the elections, It’s all political as they could have done the same anytime in the past 5 years. Certainly in the past 2 years.
Comment by yamit82 — December 29, 2008 @ 4:34 am
Debbie Schlussel: Don’t Get Too Excited About the Phony Baloney, Temporary Israeli “War” vs. HAMAS
Comment by Shy Guy — December 29, 2008 @ 4:49 am
Whatever your positions are, whatever you might think the reasons are or whatever any of you writing posts here think will happen or ought to happen, there is no use in discussing.
WE westerners are finally the ones sending NATO or UN forces and weapons and humanitarian help and money to rebuild (or not), thus the main thing is understanding what WE westerners are being taught via our media:
1.- Nobody knows, thus, nobody cares, about rockets sent by Hamas.
2.- Everybody knows, thus, everybody cares, about disproportionate use of force by the IDF.
Who will be coming to help?
The moderates. Palestinian Authority. The Fatah guys in disguise will reopen a new Oslo Process or the like (in Moscow?, who recently offered to do so?) with our new moderate token Obama.
Give Gaza back to Fatah, give more independence to PA, more settlers away, peace for land, they say.
Then Hamas, in due time, shall win new elections, because, after all, these arabs are –ought to be- democratic guys, and then the gangway Iran-Iraq-Syria/Jordan/Lebanon will be ready.
The moderates’ slideshow was then played at the hostage crises back in Khomeini’s Iran, last year as well with the so-called Hamas/PA clashes… and within few days, when IDF retires after PA assures they will control Gaza Strip.
Great chess move.
In this master’s move, jews will be labeled, even more, as nazi-like children killers, the new israeli government will be labeled as opportunists (by using this attack to obtain votes), and PA/Fatah will make its way further to its leaders thesis’ wolf-in-a-lambs-guise.
And no politician in Israel will be able to help it, wether corrupt or not. It must be here, WE, westerners, who stop our politicians and our media, like in the US in the 40’s. It is the good guys in the west who must understand the socio-economic-political laws hidden in the Torah. Jews already know them. The job has always been here. Not in selfdefense (which I do not reject, but believe insufficient).
When this proves right, within the next weeks, I’ll ask Mr. Belman to help me getting new batts for my crystal ball, which is running dry.
Comment by jose lopez — December 29, 2008 @ 6:18 pm