Israel is capitulating
By Ted Belman
In the article Hamas’s march to victory just below Glick concludes,
-
On a practical level, by accepting the EU’s authority to mediate under these conditions, Israel has effectively foregone from the outset any chance of achieving its own cease-fire demands. After all, to reach a cease-fire with Hamas that includes Israel’s demands that Hamas end its weapons smuggling operations, forgo control over international borders and end its missile offensive against Israel, the EU would have to throw out the draft it just voted to accept. And it would have to reverse its political direction and abandon Hamas in favor of Israel. The chance that this will happen is quite close to zero.
Sec’y Rice just went on television and assured the press that she is seeking a “sustainable and durable” ceasefire. Fat chance. Any ceasefire agreed to will favour Hamas and will not be endurable.
Yesterday, Ephraim Sneh, asked rhetorically, in a WaPo article, Why Israel Is Bombing Gaza
When demands are made of Israel to halt its military activities in Gaza, a brief historical reminder is in order.
In September 2005, Israel vacated Gaza, dismantled all the settlements in the Gaza Strip and did not leave a shred of a presence there.
In January 2006, rule over Gaza passed to the Hamas government under Ismail Haniyeh. Instead of bringing investors to Gaza, the Hamas government brought the guerrilla-warfare trainers of the Iranian Revolutionary Guard. Instead of launching economic projects, this government launched rockets every day at Israeli towns and villages across the border. They smuggled in vast amounts of explosives, weapons and rockets; they prepared themselves for battle.
In June 2007, in a brutal and bloody military coup, Hamas took control of Gaza and soon killed or chased out the leaders of President Mahmoud Abbas’s Fatah movement. Gaza became nothing less than a military base for Iran.
Up until the Hamas takeover, 750 trucks would cross the border each day with imports and exports. As Israel’s deputy defense minister at the time, I was in charge of this activity and promoted this trade with Gaza, since the border crossings were being controlled by Abbas’s Presidential Guard, not by terrorists. The Hamas takeover is what in effect locked the gates of Gaza and forced its residents to suffer.
The rain of rockets on the citizens of Israel intensified. The cease-fire that lasted from June until Dec. 19 was used by Hamas to increase its military strength — mainly to smuggle in Grad-type rockets from Iran, which have a range of 20 miles. In recent days, these missiles have struck cities such as Ashdod, Israel’s main port, and Beersheva, the capital of Israel’s south. No sovereign state would have resigned itself to having its cities — cities such as Houston or Atlanta — bombarded. No sovereign state would allow itself to be hit by even a single missile. That is the reason for the military campaign that Israel launched this week in a series of aerial strikes.
But the campaign’s objective is not to end the rocket fire. The true objective should be the end of Hamas rule in Gaza. Israel cannot resign itself to having a missile and terror base five miles from one of its principal cities, Ashkelon.
Gaza’s Palestinians, too, in telephone and e-mail conversations, are expressing their urgent wish to end the nightmare that Hamas has imposed on them. An end to the Hamas regime in Gaza is essential for them, as well. It is not possible to govern Gaza in the absence of close cooperation with Israel on issues of trade, energy, environment, water and health. Those who reject the legitimacy of Israel can’t provide a normal life for Gaza’s 1.5 million residents, who on average are living on $2 a day.
Israel could bring about a collapse of the Hamas regime in Gaza by means of a lengthy, large-scale ground campaign. With a clear exit strategy lacking, this is not an appealing option for us. At the moment, unfortunately, this is the only option available.
Yet there is another way. Those demanding a cease-fire must produce a comprehensive solution, a “package” containing the following elements:
Full dismantling of the military power of Hamas in Gaza, including destruction of all stockpiles of rockets and missiles.
Transfer of control over border-crossings between Gaza and Egypt and between Gaza and Israel to the Palestinian Authority government of Salam Fayyad.
Until the elections to the Palestinian parliament and the presidency in January 2010, Gaza is to be run by a civilian administration appointed by the government in Ramallah.
Augmented Egyptian supervision of the border between Gaza and Egypt.
The return of kidnapped Israeli soldier Gilad Shalit.
Such an agreement will require international and regional support. Countries such as Turkey, Egypt and Saudi Arabia can play an important role. Syria, if it uses its influence over the Hamas leadership that is comfortably hosted by Damascus, can win points toward any future discussions with the United States and Israel.
In the absence of such a package, the fighting in Gaza will not end. Israel has no reason to end it.
FAT CHANCE
A ceasefire will make Hamas victorious and raise its street cred both with the Palestinian street as well as the Muslim World. And Israel would agree to Hamas terms, why exactly? Why bother to go through the pretense of a bombing campaign if you’re going to capitulate? Either Israel wants to win or doesn’t. If it doesn’t, then this has been a very expensive campaign commercial for the Israeli Left. And Israel will be faced with renewed fighting next time under far worse circumstances, confronting a Hamas with an even more enlarged arsenal.
Three cheers for Fox News !!
I was in full agreement till I read this: ·
This is still the lefts delusional conception. They have learned nothing and forgot nothing.
Here is one anchor who knows what he is talking about and refusing to accept the lies of a Palestinian legal adviser…
We need more of this… Proper Journalists!
Warms the heartstrings
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=jSUSoPrICqQ&feature=channel_page
Why don’t we just bring back the British Mandate, The Jews here seem incapable of self governance……!
Stop the Massacre of Palestinians!
Emergency Demonstrations Taking Place Daily
http://answer.pephost.org/site/News2?abbr=ANS_&page=NewsArticle&id=8871&news_iv_ctrl=1621
Another NY protest:
STOP THE MASSACRE
BOYCOTT ISRAEL
NYC Actions for Gaza Continue
Death toll in Gaza is over 400! Over 2000 wounded!
Friday, 5:00- 7:00 PM: Join Adalah-NY for Flyering and a Vigil
Greeley Square, 6th Ave & 32nd Street (1,2,3, A,B,C,D, to 34th St)
Bring Palestinian flags, make your own sign
Printable flyers will be avalable on our website Friday morning. We will print
loads (but if you can make copies, you can help).
REMINDER
Saturday: we urge all of our members and friends to come out and participate in
the Rally and March on Saturday January 3, 2009.
Rally at Times Square, 42nd and 7th Avenue, 1:00 PM
March to the Israeli mission on 42nd and 2nd Avenue.
Adalah-NY and friends will gather 12:40 PM at the North East corner of 39th St
and 7th Ave. At 1:10 PM, we will join the protest and try to be near 41st St.
and 7th Ave. Join us!
BRING FLAGS & MAKE YOUR OWN SIGN.
Here are some of the the slogans we will be using for signs on Friday and
Saturday:
* STOP THE MASSACRE – BOYCOTT ISRAEL
* BOYCOTT OCCUPATION & MASS STARVATION
* STOP ISRAELI WAR CRIMES
* STOP THE GENOCIDE
* STOP THE HUMAN RIGHTS ABUSE! – OR WE’LL HAVE TO THROW OUR SHOES!
* YES, WE CAN! STOP ISRAELI AGGRESSION!
* YES, WE CAN! STOP THE GENOCIDE IN GAZA!
* YES, WE CAN! STOP US MILITARY AID TO ISRAEL!
* YES, WE CAN! BOYCOTT ISRAEL!
* NOT IN OUR NAMES, NOT WITH OUR MONEY!
* ISRAELI DEFENSE FORCES = WAR CRIMINALS
* ISRAELI ATTACK ON GAZA = GENOCIDE
* YES, WE CAN! STOP THE ETHNIC CLEANSING OF PALESTINE!
* ZIONISM = RACISM
* ISRAEL = APARTHEID SOUTH AFRICA
* WAR IS TERRORISM WITH BIGGER BUDGET – STOP ISRAEL’S WAR ON PALESTINIANS
* SAY NO TO RACISM – SAY NO TO CARNAGE
* ACT AGAINST ISRAEL’S WAR CRIMES
No major Jewish organized counter demonstrations planned except some ad-hoc groups like CAMERA. We have abandoned the playing field to Terror and the terrorists. Somebody better wake up fast and smell the copffee.
I laugh.
ha ha.
I laugh in the face of madness.
ha ha ha ha
…
This is a tale told by an idiot, full of sound and fury, Signifying nothing.
Ha! ha! ha! — he! he! — a very good joke indeed — an excellent jest. We will have many a rich laugh about it at the palazzo — he! he! he! — over our wine — he! he! he!
…
Fortunato? Fortunato!
…
Israel crys WOLF! twice in two years. Condysleeza hands Israel’s head to Hamas.
Again.
All is well!
They will now trade six million dead Jews for the corpse of Shalit.
A practical joke. You played the world all right real good.
You all have a nice suicide party now.
…
The word Israeli is becoming synonymous with weakness, cowardice, vacillation and capitulation.
After this Israeli is an international joke.
Palestinians protest and Israelis dance on strings.
I should have learned my lesson after they freed the child killer.
…
What can you do?
See youse on the funny farm.
Two can play at the slogan game… Feel free to use these “substitutes”.
I take great umberage at this author’s reference to Abbas’s control and reference, “not terrorists” remark. Wasn’t Abbas responsible for that “little” incident in West Germany over 36 years ago? For anyone who doubts the righteousness of bombing Gaza, let me break it down in simplistic terms. Mohamed el Dura was a “false flag” operation Shalhavet Pass was reality.
Why don’t we hold our attacks on the Israeli government (Stupid idiots) until we actually see them agree to a truce with the other Stupid idiots (Gaza). If the IDF puts boots on the ground, they will be hard to stop. That being the case, continue to put the heat and the encouragement to destroy the Islamic terrorists.
They have their boot poised to crush a scorpion and they say “Oh gee why not make a truce?”
..
Well, even though Israel seems to have all sense of credibility or even all sense, hope springs eternal. A failure here may be unrecoverable. If Israel can be broken so easily maybe even the terrorists can use some threat to against the population to convince the submarine commanders to surrender. At least now they will be so emboldened and encouraged. Nothing is impossible for them!
Those words describe yourself max. When the fuck have you ever fought for anything? A great warrior you are behind a keyboard. What a putz.
BTW all muslim males should be forcibly castrated starting at the age of 13.
Laura:BTW all muslim males should be forcibly castrated starting at the age of 13
Peskin Wrote:Boy oh boy, what a degenerate. I shudder to think about what sadomasochistic, aoutoerotic,exotic practises you engage in-what about goats,chickens, underage boys and girls-are there any limits at all?
Belman: What are running here a swingers club?
Time will tell.
No, these words describe modern Israel, it’s current status and the current world majority opinion of Israel. I’m sure you know it. You want to take a poll in month after this Hamas victory you can find out objectively what the world thinks no matter which side they are on.
..
Your anger towards someone you know nothing about is simply psychological denial of the obvious.
…
Being angry at an anonymous Internet poster will not change the reality of the absurd “Don Quixote” performance currently displayed in Israel. Now if you can transfer that anger to the Israeli Nation, and they would step up to the plate that would be terrific! I would retract and rejoice for the survival of Israel.
..
The rank and file in the IDF and the public are not the instigators they are just the receivers .
The nation takes on the attributes of it’s leaders and bosses. Those leaders as well as the Hamas need to be removed.. But there is no one and no force that can do that so that is just day dreaming.
…
But I think the keyboard in my hands produces somewhat effective writings which reflects my life experience. William Golding said a writer is one who exposes and presses on raw nerves and like Hannibal Lecter I know how to find them. So a writer is measured by they affect, not by who they shoot.
…
Israel’s reputation is now totally reversed from the tough Holocaust survival spirit. I didn’t do that. I would say it was modern business economics and the Western Power elite that did that. So it’s not so much the common person’s fault, though they are the “finished product” of the power elite’s media.
…
I’m glad my words affect you, If only they could reach the six million the same way.
I don’t blame you. It is not easy to accept loss and you are probably going through Kübler-Ross’s five stages of Grief. You have my condolences. The tough spirit of Holocaust survival has been replaced by the need to have showy funerals.
…
Those words I said in part describe an objective reality but more importantly they describe the current world opinion of Israel. You will see.. wait a while and then watch the fallout from this.
..
And as for “fight for anything” does anyone in Israel fight for anything? Individuals – yes.
Overall – “No”, and not only is that answer “No” but the forces opposing fighting for anything are totally entrenched and dominant.
…
The IDF according to all reports is crippled with legalism, leftism and political correctness and CYA. There is no warrior ethic left there. There is no Holocaust legacy left in the popular idiom. It has evaporated strewn away by the MSM ownership.
…
There is not a war on , nor even a military action. There are just some social machinations with lives being made by electioneering politicians. There are no Israel groups of any power fighting for anything in Israel. The only military man that could lead them was fired and dubbed an “jerk” by the powers that be. And no one in power wants him or anyone like him back in charge.
…
Like Donald Trump said to an Apprentice loser once “It’s over. Isn’t it over?” There comes a point when the spirit of one or two people does not pull the ashes out of the oven and turn them back into the living.
..
I would go further to say this is/was the final point of no return. The turning point was probably some years back.
..
Now it’s time to accept the failure of the Jewish/Israeli state, and the triumph of Jihadist Terrorism in the Middle East. It’s time to accept that probably within a decade Israel will be a rump state or cease to exist and to try to determine the implications and future history of that for the rest of the world.
There will be a rapid spiraling down. People and organizations do not give money, material and emotional support to lost causes or nations that have given up or become hopelessly corrupted. They CORF. It’s only natural to shout “Throw the Bums out!”
..
“New Elections” will not help Israel. New elections will just see the cronies of the old faces or the new faces of the same corrupted power elite that owns the election process, the media and the proagandization of the Israelis. The political process already had become corrupted and a dead end. When Ya’alon was tossed out on his ear, that was the end of the old guard and the triumph of Elite Power.
…
I think people now have to regard Israelis as such they would a relative who became addicted to drugs. They can only be helped insofar as their suicidal tendencies do not pull you down into their self-destructive vortex. The best thing to do for Israeli friends is to help them get out or make emergency plans ahead of time to get them out before the end comes.
There will not be any attack on Iran’s nuclear facilities either by the USA or Israel. That is a pipe dream. So after Iran gets the weapons, besides the terrorist nukes , Iran will be able to use political blackmail in many ways. This will probably limit or eliminate American response as Israel is smashed up under more and more intensive military incursions from all sides.
..
The next series of attacks from Lebanon , West Bank and Gaza will be co-ordinated and have superior technology than even today. No doubt at this stage large sections of Israel may become overrun and perhaps the Knesset of other groups will be taken hostage.
The deterrent nukes in the submarines won’t help either because the Israeli executive bosses will give them up in exchange for their own release from hostage takers or for safe passage out of Israel. Or who knows how low their price will be? Everybody will be betrayed as they have already been for the last decade. The Israeli bosses have consistently shown that they will sell out for practically no return. It is not credible that they would sacrifice anything of themselves at all.
..
If I am wrong, oh yeah,it’s wonderful. But I think I am not and not even touched the tip of the sinking Israeli iceberg in analysis. I think that the silence of alternative projected futures means only one thing ,that there isn’t any, there aren’t any answers except the obvious.
…
It’s generally how things will proceed. People think ..oh it can’t get worse beyond a certain point or there is always a wall, like nuclear deterrent or the USA. But the reality is those tings are ephemeral and “black swans” like Hezbollah II are common when anarchy and murder reigns.
It’s Occam’s’ razor that defines Israel.
…
Don’t blame me for Israel.
If it makes you feel any better, the whole rest of Western Civilization also refuses to fight for itself. And entire civilization under the jackboot of a technological economic totalitarianism and they also are confused and looking for somewhere to hide. It’s not a different process, Israel is part of this process or part of this evolution of human identity to a technological slave culture. I had a hope that it was an anomaly a glitch in the greased wheels of grinding cyborgization but apparently it was a false hope.
..
The old days were wonderful in comparison because even a Gestapo was human and could have a change of heart. Now the masters are “process”, all executive decisions are made by process analysis, efficiency analysis and left to the calculation of machines with cameras on humans 24/7 measuring how far they can be driven before being broken and discarded.
There is no human at the top to which a final appeal can be made. Israel’s failure is just part of the failure of modern civilization and the human species.
The human legacy is reduced to simply diarizing the psychopathology of a species dysfunctional disease. The fact that none will read or care about the diaries and the record of our failure in the future is irrelevant, It is simply what we do.
He he, yes , the one criticizes the other of runaway deviant sexuality and then engages themselves the same way in it. I suppose it’s counterpoint to the repressed sexuality of the enemy and an essential part of fundamentalism which is on both sides.
Well, since everyone is going to get blown up soon or be enslaved by economic totalitarians, they might as well enjoy themselves while they have time. Perhaps the best hope for the future lies in lobbying for multisexual gas chambers to make sure everyone has a good time on their way out.
He he, yes , the one criticizes the other of runaway deviant sexuality and then engages themselves the same way in it. I suppose it’s counterpoint to the repressed sexuality of the enemy and an essential part of fundamentalism which is on both sides.
Well, since everyone is going to get blown up soon or be enslaved by economic totalitarians, they might as well enjoy themselves while they have time. Perhaps the best hope for the future lies in lobbying for multisexual gas chambers to make sure everyone has a good time on their way out.
No, these words describe modern Israel, it’s current status and the current world majority opinion of Israel. I’m sure you know it. You want to take a poll in month after this Hamas victory you can find out objectively what the world thinks no matter which side they are on.
..
Your anger towards someone you know nothing about is simply psychological denial of the obvious.
…
Being angry at an anonymous Internet poster will not change the reality of the absurd “Don Quixote” performance currently displayed in Israel. Now if you can transfer that anger to the Israeli Nation, and they would step up to the plate that would be terrific! I would retract and rejoice for the survival of Israel.
..
The rank and file in the IDF and the public are not the instigators they are just the receivers .
The nation takes on the attributes of it’s leaders and bosses. Those leaders as well as the Hamas need to be removed.. But there is no one and no force that can do that so that is just day dreaming.
…
But I think the keyboard in my hands produces somewhat effective writings which reflects my life experience. William Golding said a writer is one who exposes and presses on raw nerves and like Hannibal Lecter I know how to find them. So a writer is measured by they affect, not by who they shoot.
…
Israel’s reputation is now totally reversed from the tough Holocaust survival spirit. I didn’t do that. I would say it was modern business economics and the Western Power elite that did that. So it’s not so much the common person’s fault, though they are the “finished product” of the power elite’s media.
…
I’m glad my words affect you, If only they could reach the six million the same way.
I don’t blame you. It is not easy to accept loss and you are probably going through Kübler-Ross’s five stages of Grief. You have my condolences. The tough spirit of Holocaust survival has been replaced by the need to have showy funerals.
…
Those words I said in part describe an objective reality but more importantly they describe the current world opinion of Israel. You will see.. wait a while and then watch the fallout from this.
..
And as for “fight for anything” does anyone in Israel fight for anything? Individuals – yes.
Overall – “No”, and not only is that answer “No” but the forces opposing fighting for anything are totally entrenched and dominant.
…
The IDF according to all reports is crippled with legalism, leftism and political correctness and CYA. There is no warrior ethic left there. There is no Holocaust legacy left in the popular idiom. It has evaporated strewn away by the MSM ownership.
…
There is not a war on , nor even a military action. There are just some social machinations with lives being made by electioneering politicians. There are no Israel groups of any power fighting for anything in Israel. The only military man that could lead them was fired and dubbed an “jerk” by the powers that be. And no one in power wants him or anyone like him back in charge.
…
Like Donald Trump said to an Apprentice loser once “It’s over. Isn’t it over?” There comes a point when the spirit of one or two people does not pull the ashes out of the oven and turn them back into the living.
..
I would go further to say this is/was the final point of no return. The turning point was probably some years back.
..
Now it’s time to accept the failure of the Jewish/Israeli state, and the triumph of Jihadist Terrorism in the Middle East. It’s time to accept that probably within a decade Israel will be a rump state or cease to exist and to try to determine the implications and future history of that for the rest of the world.
There will be a rapid spiraling down. People and organizations do not give money, material and emotional support to lost causes or nations that have given up or become hopelessly corrupted. They CORF. It’s only natural to shout “Throw the Bums out!”
..
“New Elections” will not help Israel. New elections will just see the cronies of the old faces or the new faces of the same corrupted power elite that owns the election process, the media and the proagandization of the Israelis. The political process already had become corrupted and a dead end. When Ya’alon was tossed out on his ear, that was the end of the old guard and the triumph of Elite Power.
…
I think people now have to regard Israelis as such they would a relative who became addicted to drugs. They can only be helped insofar as their suicidal tendencies do not pull you down into their self-destructive vortex. The best thing to do for Israeli friends is to help them get out or make emergency plans ahead of time to get them out before the end comes.
There will not be any attack on Iran’s nuclear facilities either by the USA or Israel. That is a pipe dream. So after Iran gets the weapons, besides the terrorist nukes , Iran will be able to use political blackmail in many ways. This will probably limit or eliminate American response as Israel is smashed up under more and more intensive military incursions from all sides.
..
The next series of attacks from Lebanon , West Bank and Gaza will be co-ordinated and have superior technology than even today. No doubt at this stage large sections of Israel may become overrun and perhaps the Knesset of other groups will be taken hostage.
The deterrent nukes in the submarines won’t help either because the Israeli executive bosses will give them up in exchange for their own release from hostage takers or for safe passage out of Israel. Or who knows how low their price will be? Everybody will be betrayed as they have already been for the last decade. The Israeli bosses have consistently shown that they will sell out for practically no return. It is not credible that they would sacrifice anything of themselves at all.
..
If I am wrong, oh yeah,it’s wonderful. But I think I am not and not even touched the tip of the sinking Israeli iceberg in analysis. I think that the silence of alternative projected futures means only one thing ,that there isn’t any, there aren’t any answers except the obvious.
…
It’s generally how things will proceed. People think ..oh it can’t get worse beyond a certain point or there is always a wall, like nuclear deterrent or the USA. But the reality is those tings are ephemeral and “black swans” like Hezbollah II are common when anarchy and murder reigns.
It’s Occam’s’ razor that defines Israel.
…
Don’t blame me for Israel.
If it makes you feel any better, the whole rest of Western Civilization also refuses to fight for itself. And entire civilization under the jackboot of a technological economic totalitarianism and they also are confused and looking for somewhere to hide. It’s not a different process, Israel is part of this process or part of this evolution of human identity to a technological slave culture. I had a hope that it was an anomaly a glitch in the greased wheels of grinding cyborgization but apparently it was a false hope.
..
The old days were wonderful in comparison because even a Gestapo was human and could have a change of heart. Now the masters are “process”, all executive decisions are made by process analysis, efficiency analysis and left to the calculation of machines with cameras on humans 24/7 measuring how far they can be driven before being broken and discarded.
There is no human at the top to which a final appeal can be made. Israel’s failure is just part of the failure of modern civilization and the human species.
The human legacy is reduced to simply diarizing the psychopathology of a species dysfunctional disease. The fact that none will read or care about the diaries and the record of our failure in the future is irrelevant, It is simply what we do.
Islam believes in medieval ideology – that the killing of infidels in the name of Allah will be rewarded in heaven – allowing the Islamists to sexually molest for all eternality 72 virgins, in 72 mansions, and 72 beds – that the murder of millions of non – believers is a religious duty, women are inferior to men – their virtual slaves to be denied education, beaten, killed for adultery or other sexual transgressions (real or imaged), covered from head to toe, people can be butchered, mutilated and tortured, barbers giving hair cuts killed, music and movies banned, women practicing folk dancing murdered, teachers murdered, schools teaching young girls blown up, anyone who believes in a different interpretation of Islam to be killed and on and on. Muslims have paid a terrible price at the hands of these Fundamentalists. Children massacred. Grand parents brains scattered all over the street. Men, women, children, old and young. Over one hundred and fifty thousand Muslims have been slaughtered in the most horrid, grotesque, unimaginable ways since 9/11.
Against these ridiculous crazy teachings, the Western World is intellectually collapsing – freedom of speech is collapsing. Anyone who writes or puts on a play exposing these teachings can be killed.
Now philo-clitoreum, In light of your sexist posts here and your proclivity to add zero to any discussion on any thread and in light of your disturbed mental condition probably brought on by syphilis I encourage you to volunteer for castration asap.
I can think of no Muslim more deserving and in need of such a radical act than you. Pls volunteer yourself asap as your sickness seems to be contagious. Otherwise we might have to track you down and put you out of our misery like any mad dog or Muslim.
There’s nothing like a good war to stimulate the libido culminating in a quick salvo of cyber passion..
Considering the patriarchal, women treated as dirt and slaves, multiple terrorist wives breeding like rats, castration would be a good policy if it wasn’t a Nazi kind of thing.
But since the West is committed to Democracy, it is better to do the Democratic thing and kill them all , or at least kill as as many terrorist and terrorist enablers as will gather under the sights of each missile.
Pity that they take their children to paradise with them, but then again they really have limited futures as suicide bombers and terrorists. better they go with the parents unless social services can be called in to re-parent them. The problem of orphans and runaways from abusive violent families is always very sad.
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