1. george said:

Several years ago Avnery sent me an email in which he denouced the 97% offer as a complete sham and that arafat had every reason to walk away.
Wish i had saved it for reproduction on this site, but at that time blogging was in its infancy.
My uncle was in Monowitz with Primo Levi. Primo called him a snake in "If this is Man."
In fact, like Arafat he had the great talent of being able to charm the pants off academic leftists, but primo with the great insight he had, saw through him at once.
He changed his name temporarily after the war to Andre Durieux, to conceal his jewishness and gain acceptance from the left bank parisian intellectual left, by whom he was adored for his strong anti zionist views.
even with the post war emergeance of holocaust revisionism in France, his criticisms were always muted in reference to freedom of expression.
The awful "survival" experience in Auschwitz i believe, instilled in him a stone cold amorality, which cohabited with his periods of warm charm for the benefit of anyone who might be useful to him.
His Skills at handling the kapos and even Hoess himself ( who tool pity om him) were later put to good use in his relationships wtih the french marxist intellectual left.
The recognition which he so desperatately sought form academia never materialised but he reminded me so much of the Jewish Israel haters such as Avnery and Chomsky, Finkelstein who achieve fame through betrayal and the denial of their roots -and who are eulogised by those who hate Israel and jews.
Perhaps his guilt prompted the writing of "Speak you also", written of course after the death of Primo Levi, in which he admitted to beimg the "Henri" that Primo had written about.

2. Ted said:

George, that was fascinating. Thank you.

3. Ted said:

Judy A
Well said! From what I've read about this Avnery fellow in the last two days, I'm with you all the way. People of the left certainly have a propensity to indulge in all kinds of inversions. It's more than annoying. Actually, if it triumphs, that'll be the end of the Judeo-Christian ethic and civilization as we know it. Of course, they're oblivious to that. To know, you need the eyes to see and the ears to hear. They don't have either.

4. Ted said:

Dave G wrote me to say

"I agree with Ted that it is difficult to understand how Avnery could "find common cause" with Arafat, and it is astounding that he has not one bad word to say about him. Avnery, in suggesting that there was a possibility of making peace with Arafat, seems to have blinded himself to the fact that Arafat wanted to destroy Israel and make the whole area his new Palestine.

However, one of Avnery's points is quite interesting and of much concern. He may be right when he says that Arafat was not a fundamentalist Islamist and that in fact he kept them from moving in. Avnery may indeed be right when he says that the door is now open for the fundamentalists to move in and take over.I believe that such an eventuality would be even worse for Israel than the situation already is. Let us hope that Avnery is wrong on this point."

5. Ted said:

Nat S wrote me as follows:

" have just finished reading in the Ha'aretz Uri Avneri's eulogy to Arafat. My reaction was one of total disorientation, as if I had entered another dimension or an alien universe.

All this while I thought that Arafat was a murderous thug, a liar and a pervert. Imagine how wrong I was!

It was certainly a revelation to me that Arafat was such a nice guy and a gentleman, "misunderstood" by almost everybody but Avneri. And, of course, in Avneri's universe only Israel bears the burden of guilt. His epithets are hurled at almost all historical figures (many were indeed fools) that had anything to do with negotiating with the "chairman," for whom Avneri reserves his admiration and warmest feelings. It's the monster who comes across as clever, genuine and decent.

Avneri's eagerness to equate his own service on behalf of Israel with Arafat's notorious record of butchery stretches one's powers of reason and patience. Do his views represent a significant segment of Israeli electorate? I find this frightening.

Either we, Jews in the Galut, Israelis, Americans, Romanians, friends of Israel, wherever they many be, and even many Arabs are terminally stupid, or Avnneri is certifiably insane.
Why is this sort of masochistic "opinion" sought after by the Israeli press, and particularly by Ha'aretz?

Concerned,

6. Ted said:

Irv W wrote me as follows

"It's funny that the interviewer asked Avnery if he was in love with Arafat, because after the first half of the interview, it sounded like they had been lovers. I was starting to think about the rumours that Arafat was gay. This is not a homophobic comment -- but wouldn't that be an interesting connection between Arafat and his Jewish eulogist.

Sadly, individual egos in the Jewish community often lead to this type of thing. Frankly, I think if the fate of Rabin were to befall a few more of our co-religionists, I would not be one to weep. The destruction of the the kingdom of Northern Israel and the first Diaspora, if I recall correctly, was a result of Jews making common cause with their enemies. Look what is happening here in Canada -- not as extreme but still the same.

Arafat did achieve great things for the Palestinians, who will ultimately have a state that will probably coincide with the green line -- and the borders will be as large as that because of Arafat. Already, Gaza is no longer negotiable -- because Sharon has given it up with any quid pro quo. Purely as a result of terror.

I'm frankly too sick about this to comment further. Avnery, Yossi Beilin, Yossi Sarid and a few others should all be charged with treason and hung on being convicted.

7. Ted said:

Bob W writes

"I join you in prayer that Arafat's efforts yield failure.

Arafat's hagiology was drafted and nurtured by powerful institutions
configured against Israel. The oil trade is involved in this.

Still, Arafat wasjust a catalyst. The fissures being expressed in Israel
today can be traced to pre Independence. There are 2 separate societies in
Israel. Both cannot accept a federal system of government. The results, because
of this rejection, can be envisioned by a topical glance at history.

I use as a bench mark reference the Motor Vessel Altalena. The background to
what involved this former Marine Corps LST represents the split not yet
resolved.

Personally, I have no interest in another secular California on the eastern
Med. If Israel is not to be Jewish, Foxman and Bronfman followers can support
the place. They can use their Anglican gained fortunes to do this. Israel will
still fall."

8. Ted said:

John A. writes

"The State of Israel today does not have the dedication of those who came after WWII.There are many today that act out of self serving interests. THE EU makes sure there is enough grease around for like minded people.

Anybody that figures that a murderer should be praised as a statesman has no respect for his victims. There's a difference between fighting for your life and killing innocent victims . Appeasement doesn't work. Even the Saudis and Egyptians didn't like them. They preferred to keep the Palestinian pot boiling for their own interests.Arafat was the head of a murderous gang that kept moderates quiet and living in fear.Anybody who thinks that his demise will stop the terrorist activity is dreaming. Iran will be stirring the pot with money and resources to keep the focus on Israel and not their nuke program.

It is preferable to live in peace , but one needs people on the other side that you can trust with your life. How far are we from that goal bearing in mind that today's children are still brainwashed against Israel? Peace is the goal. What has to be in place before that stage is reached?"

9. Ami Isseroff said:

"Avnery will go down in history as a traitor"
and Ted said in comments:
"Avnery, Yossi Beilin, Yossi Sarid and a few others should all be charged with treason and hung on being convicted."
A man should be judged by deeds, not words.
We do not necessarily need to agree with Avnery's words, but he illuminates a facet of reality that we cannot ignore, and we must give the man his due as a hero of modern Israel.


Uri Avnery fought bravely for Israel in 1948 and was seriously wounded. He recounted his exploits in Samson's Foxes on the southern front in "In the fields of the Philistines" (Bisdot Paleshet), a book which defined the attitude and outlook of the first generation of Israelis. In the course of his army service he recounts (in the introduction to a revised edition) how it happened that his motorized commando killed not a few Palestinian Arabs who could not exactly be defined as combatants. Likewise Menachem Begin, Yitzhak Shamir and others killed Arab civilians in the struggle for Israeli independence. That is the context in which Avnery, rightly or wrongly, judges Arafat.



Avnery, Rabin, Sharon and many others whom you hasten to call "traitors," and many who died and so could not killed by right-wing fanatics, were the silver salver on which the Jewish people were given our state.



I am always fascinated by armchair Zionists who are anxious for us to send ourselves and sons to die for the last millimeter of holy Israel. According to you, anyone who doesn't think like you is a traitor. Therefore, we should all follow your example, move to a comfortable venue in California or Toronto or thereabouts, and from there we can spew imprecations against the "traitors" in Israel. But if we all move out, what "traitors" will be left to give you a state?



The Jewish right has already managed to murder one Israeli hero, perhaps the greatest Israeli general since Bar Kochba, and the most astute and courageous statesman since Solomon. Those who talk about "traitors" who should be 'hung' (you mean 'hanged') should consider their words and what they may lead to.





Shalom

Ami Isseroff

MidEastWeb for Coexistence

10. Ted said:

Thank you for your comments, Ami. Yes Avnery must be given his due . But that was then. This is now. Just as there are different standards to judge Arafat by as my article points out, there are different criteria to judge whether Israelis are patriots or traitors. I don't consider a person who fights for the "poor Palestinians" to be an Israeli patriot but rather a Palestinian patriot. I believe they are undermining Israel and are thus traitors.

11. Michael Diamond said:

I think the use of the word traitor needs to be carefully managed. Certainly differences of opinion cannot be viewed as evidence a traitor, failing which a significant number of Israelis would become traitors at any point in time, sometimes on the left, sometimes on the right. I have become disgusted with the behaviour of many on the Left principally becuase they have evolved (or perhaps have always been) so convinced of their own rightness that they do not allow for the possibility that there may be other points of view, and they lash out at those who would call into question their moral superiority on a regular basis. Such behaviour is particularly disgusting when taken as professors or even high school teachers where their power puts them in an unassailable position. THerefore, while I find the behaviour of your subject wrong, and perhaps even disgusting, I would not use the word traitor to describe him.

I also disagree with another comment in your article and that is your stated belief that Arafat's objective was the destruction of the State of Israel. I do not believe that to be the case- if so, he would have accepted one of the several peace proposals made by trusting Israeli PM's in order to establish a Palestinian State which would have had the ability to gain the power and presence necesary to ultimately intrude on Israel's sovereignty. I believe ARafat's goal was very different- it was the obtaining and maintenance of power for his own sake and for the purposes of stealing from his people in order to amass wealth. This was a power and money grab, pure and simple. And if you watch the activities of many of his potential successors, it is not going to be about providing selfless leadership- it will be about who takes that power and that flow of funds.

12. george said:

It is interesting that Another Great Italian, although not on the level of a Primo Levi, managed to see the incredible "charm" of Yassir. I refer of course to Oriana Fallacci, a lady of great insight and passion.
Those Jews who succombed to the falsehoods were not blessed with such wisdom and like my uncle were willing to sacrifice some of their personel integrity for gain.But his compromises were far more excusable for obvious reasons.
German jews also hailed Adolf Hitler when he surfaced from the slime of fascism.
The "admiration" of Uri Avnery for a man who has slaughtered Israeli children and so many innocent people, is of course difficult to understand, because one cannot think of a single Jew who would have admired Hitler AFTER the Holocaust.
Whatever these reasons, it reveals a high degree of amorality and disrespect for the jews who have lost their lives to the hands of this charismatic excuse for a human being.

13. Zeev B. said:

I must confess : I hate Uri Avnery much more that I ever hated Arafat.
Because Arafat did whatever he believed was good for his people. Avnery
always did what he believed was good for Avnery - to be an entfant terrible,
to be well liked by the Kreiskys of our time. He convinced himself to be
an intellectual - he never was, nothing but a political opportunist.

14. Ted said:

Another reader writes;

"Your article about Uri Averny was great. Let me give you more facts about Uri.
Definitely use these facts. It shows 100 percent he supports Arab terrorism. Uri Averny wants to bring Israeli soldiers for War Crimes who target Palestinian terrorists who deliberately kill Israeli civilians

On the other hand, Uri wrote an article called Revenge of a Child This was about the incident where a Palestinian gunman machine gunned an Israeli mother and her 2 sons at Kibbutz Metzner in 2002. The Israeli mother tried to shield her sons, but it was to no avail, the Palestinian terrorists massacred all 3 of them. Uri Averny writes in this article, we should understand why Palestinians kill Israeli woman and children. He basically says, we should make excuses when Arabs kill woman and children. At no point, does Uri mention the incitement in the Palestinian media to slaughter Jews. At no point, does Uri mention how the Palestinian media makes the Jews out to be subhumans. One can imagine, if an Israeli soldier went into a Palestinian home and slaughtered a Palestinian mother and her 2 sons. Uri Averny would be calling for war crimes. He would march at the home of the massacre. Somehow when Arabs massacre Israeli woman and children. We should understand it. This shows how Uri Averny is a fraud.

Uri wrote the same thing last year when the homicide bombing massacre happened in the Maxim restaurant in Haifa October 2003. I will get the article. But Uri made excuses for the woman homicide bomber who slaughtered 18 civilians and 5 children in the massacre. He basically said, we should understand why Palestinians become homicide bombers. He defended in his sick way the woman homicide bomber.

Someone brought up a good example to me. If an Israeli family member was killed by a Palestinian homicide bomber. If that Israeli family member went in some Palestinian school and machine gunned 20 Palestinian civilians to death, Uri would be in rage over the killings.

3 years ago when Israel captured the Karine A Ship. Uri Averny wrote this article about the Karine A Ship.
This was the ship that was carrying 50 tons of weapons. When Israel captured the ship, the ships captain admitted, the weapons came from Iran and were for Arafat. Arafat then tried to say, he knew nothing about the weapons. This of course this was a lie. Israeli forces then foundd on the ship, documents which showed how the weapons came from Iran and were for Arafat. When it became obvious that Arafat lied, about him not knowing about the 50 tons of weapons. Averny writes in this article, the captain was a Mossad agent. Uri knew that Arafat lied and the weapons were for him sent from Iran. Uri tries his Nazi conspiracy theories against Jews.

In his article Manufacturing Anti-Semites, he makes his usual wacked out conspiracy theories, that Sharon exports anti semitism by going after Palestinian terrorists who slaughter Israeli civilians. Uri probably thinks, Jews should just be slaughtered and accept being blown to pieces.

He says in the article, For many years, Israel enjoyed the sympathy of most people. It was seen as the state of Holocaust survivors, a small and courageous country defending itself against the repeated assaults of murderous Arabs. Slowly, this image has been replaced by another: a cruel, brutal, and colonizing state, oppressing a small and helpless people.

This is the biggest lie by this Arab appeasing terrorist. What does Uri think Israel should have done, seeing there civilians are being blown to bits by Palestinian suicide bombers, who are deliberately targeting elderly Holocaust survivors at Passover Seders, teenagers in pizza parlours, buses, disco's, cafe's and restaurants.

The obstacle to peace remains Arab terrorism and violence perpetrated by Arabs to annihilate an Israel of any size. And the inability of Arabs to live side by side with Jews, or anyone else.

Barak who offered the Palestinians a state, something no Arab country did. Barak who even offered to divide Jerusalem to satisfy the Arabs. How do the Arabs respond to this offer, they start there umpteen terrroist war against Israel. I wonder how Uri calls people oppressed, in which 70 percent of Palestinians support homicide bombings against Israeli civilians. Half the Palestinian population in a recent poll said they want Israel destroyed. Its leaders incite its population to kill Jews were every see them. I wonder if Uri uhinks Palestinian leaders who admit there goal is to kill all the Israelis are persecuted.

Because of the the Palestinians obsession with implementing Arafat's phase by phase plan to destroy Israel, which Faisal Husseini went intodetail before he died. There's no safe haven for Jews. Not within Israel and notwithout. The earth is stained withtheir blood: From an El Al counter in Los Angeles to a beach resort in Kenya.

No where are the Jews safe from Arab terrorism. Israeli children, teenagers, their elderly, their scholars, Holocaust survivors, are all targets, at home and abroad.
Israelis shopping for food, riding a bus, strolling across a campus, dining at restaurants, dancing in clubs, worshipping in synagogues. Not a blessed place in all the world is safe for Jews.

When Cythnia Mckinny lost her congressional seat last year. Uri tried to say, the Jews are responsible for Cynthia losing and not the voters of Atlanta rejecting her. He tried to say, the Jews decided who gets elected. He said, the Jews control the media and congress. Cythnia Mckinny is the same idiot who tried to say Bush knew about the 9/11 attacks and let them happen.

Then Uri Averny says Sharon's policies will cause a revolution in the Arab world as though they'll become more radical. I say what revolution. The Arabs are already dictators. You mean the Arabs might become democratic. You mean like the Arabs might allow criticism of there goverments. Or does he mean, they'll become Islamic fundamenlist. Either way, they'll be dictators.

But here Uri lies. he says, "The point is that the actions of the Sharon government, and the unqualified support given to this government by the Jewish establishment, has enabled these hard-core anti-Semites to win over well-meaning people who are repelled by Sharon's actions." What actions.

What does he expect Sharon to do, when your dealing with people who want to murder you. Over the past two years, we've seen what the Palestinians have done with the autonomy generously granted to them by Israel.

They've slaughtered Israeli grandmothers and toddlers, pregnant women and elderly rabbis. They've set off their nail-studded, rat poison-laced bombs in shopping malls, disco's, pizzeria's, cafe's and university cafeterias. They've turned school buses into blazing infernos, invaded home and shot mothers and children in their beds. They've dragged 13-year-old boys to caves and stoned them to death.

Those who don't actually pull the triggers, detonate the bombs against Israeli children, then celebrate the atrocities in the streets of Ramallah and Jenin, as they danced in those same streets when Arab terrorists crashed two planes into the World Trade Center. These sadists even built an exhibition celebrating the Sbarros massacre last August.

Ten years after Oslo, there have been 1,200 Jews murdered and thousands maimed for life. Jews have similarly been burned by Arab suicide bombers in buses, like they were burned and gassed in the crematoria of Hitler. Arabs kill Jews not because they live in Israel, but because they are alive.

Rivers of Jewish blood began flowing through the streets of Jerusalem, Tel Aviv, Haifa, Hebron, Netanyah, Rishon Lezion and so many more cities and towns in the Holy Land. In pizza shops, cafes, supermarkets, school basketball courts, buses, on the road and in private homes, young infants, children, teenagers, mothers, fathers, grandparents lay strewn in pools of their own blood, their bodies dismantled. Entire families have been destroyed in the blink of an eye.

Five million Jews are living today on the front lines of one of the most vicious of modern battlefields. With their very attempt to live their daily lives in their own homeland, these Jews have put themselves and their children at risk of being murdered by human beings who have turned themselves into evil monsters.

They have killed thousands, in order to achieve what Hamas said last year, was to kill every Israeli man woman and child. Or as Arafat has said! To eliminate and destroy Israel and create purely Palestinian state with no Jews in it.

Uri says," Just now the Jewish establishment rallied against the black congresswoman Cynthia McKinney, a young, active, intelligent, and very sympathetic woman. She had dared to criticize the Sharon government, to support the Palestinian cause, and (worst of all from the Jewish establishment's standpoint) she had gained the support of Israeli and Jewish peace groups. The Jewish establishment found a counter-candidate, a practically unknown black woman, injected huge sums into the campaign, and defeated Cynthia. All this happened in the open, with fanfare, to make a public example of McKinney, ”so that every senator and congressperson would know that criticizing Sharon is tantamount to political suicide.

What Uri didn't tell you, most of the Cynthia's money came from Arabs and Islamic people. Its those rascally Jews again with their mind control. In between poisoning wells, drinking the blood of Christians to make Matza, having 4000 Jews not show up at the World Trade Center. Now we find out, they decide who gets elected n the congress. Infact, Cynthia Mckinney just won back her congressional seat 2 weeks ago. I thought the Jews who decide who get elected. Well Uri, how the heck did Mckinney win back her seat.

15. george said:

Thank you ted - for that insight into Avnery who looks and thinks like my uncle even to the fashionable beard.
One wonders how these seeds of darkness were planted. Was it in childhood at home? or perhaps through rejection at school by his peers. or the promise of acceptance by the internaional academic left?
Perhaps his adulation of Arafat was that he recognised so much of himself in him?
I am reminded of a story by jean paul sartre, called i believe, "portrait of an antisemite" in which the anti hero, who is by nature extremely arrogant, is rejected and ostracised by his friends some of which are Jewish, and ultimately finds solice and approval in the company of jew haters and uses his antisemism as a tool to gain power recognition and admiration.

16. Sharon Camus said:

A long-standing rumour in Israel has it that, at the end of the Second World War, Avneri persuaded his adoring, if somewhat weak-willed wife, to be sterilized as he had no wish to bring children into such an evil world. Perhaps that exlains his callous and very peculiar attitude to the murders of Israelis, especially babies and small children, by today's racists and nazis (e.g. Arafat and his henchmen/women)as well as the altogether inexplicable behavior of this obviously unbalanced individual, such as his feelings of "love" towards Arafat the mass murderer of tens of thousands of innocent human beings (not only Israelis)and founder of modern terrorism. One cannot dismiss the feeling that his wife must be as loony as he is for, had she been a normal woman with normal maternal instincts and not totally obsessed with him and his perverse ideology, she would have shown him the door and found herself a more masculine man to father her children. As it is, Avnery is nothing more than a collaborator with the heirs of German nazism and should be brought to justice for that fact alone. However, in Israel there is one law for leftwing extremists who aid and abet and otherwise consort with our enemies and another for "rightwing extremists" whose main crime is wishing to live in honor, peace and security anywhere they wish in the Jewish people's Promised Land - Israel!

17. Ted said:

Lynne Teperman writes;

"Knowing nothing about Uri Avnery, I can only posit that he suffers from a
syndrome that Phyllis Chesler and a couple of other feminists ascribed to
the feminists who find common cause opposing the invasion of Afghanistan,
and the Palestinian cause. The Taliban and the Palestinians clad themselves
in the role of victim and, thus, to validate their own view of themselves
as victimes, these feminists identify with two extremely myscogenistic
societies. This also applies to the majority of so-called leftists. (There
is a small segment of the "left" i.e. people who believe in a mixed economy
who take a very opposing view about Israel/Palestine, the invasions of
Afghanistan and Iraq etc., supporting democracy and understanding that
sometimes external interventions are necessary. Paul Berman, the author of
Terrorism and Liberalism, who will be speaking at the Holy Blossom on Nov.
29, is one of them.)

The scary thing about the Uri Avenerys, Noam Chomskys, Norman Finklesteins,
et al., is the effect they have on younger Israelis and Jews in general,
who have no recollection of events preceding 1972/73, so they only see
themselves as the perpetrators of an "illegal occupation".

18. Dr. E. Metzler-Moziani, Judge (ret.) said:

Ari Shavet's interview of Uri Avnery is brilliant, but very saddening. Often German Jews tend to be more German than Germans in displaying their negative characteristics. The crooked personality of this Israeli traitor may have its basis in his German background: Uri Avnery was born as Helmut Ostermann on September 10, 1923, in Beckum, Westphalia. The Berlin neo-Huns, who sent their foreign minister Joschka Fischer to the Arafat funeral in Cairo, sure appreciate Gush Shalom and their mastermind Uri Avnery. Of course, he is the darling of Fourth Reich Germans and Austrians, who have heaped prizes upon him in the past few years, such as the Erich-Maria-Remarque Peace Prize of the City of Osnabrück (1995), the Aachen Peace Prize (1997), the Bruno Kreisky Prize for Human Rights (1997), the Alternative Nobel Prize (2001) as well as the Carl-von-Ossietzky-Prize of the City of Oldenburg (Mai 2002).