1. benjamin said:

The orange stars have deeply hurt and offended a great manner survivors of the Holocaust and their children in this country. Does that mean nothing to you?

2. Tiburon said:

Benjamin - You'll find a comment on point under "Resistance" post by Joseph, below. From the original PE article: -

"Returning to the issue of orange stars worn by those protesting against Sharon’s deportation plan—will someone please recommend another emblem to portray the suffering that awaits Jewish women, men, and children uprooted from their homes and synagogues and farms in Gaza. And what of their buried dead?"

Personally, I don't get so exercised about the Shoah anymore, especially inasmuch it's commercialization and cheapening over the last decade or so. And I was raised on the minutae of the horror, Benjamin - and was not 'afraid to look'. This wasn't the first time Our People have been decimated, with unbelievable cruelty and barbarity, to a tenth of a tenth...After all: - Pesah. To say nothing of the Destructions. There's a 'reason' we fast 9th Av.

Inappropriate? Perhaps offensively dramatic, yes, and G-d Forbid we offend the 'sacred image' of the Martyred, al kiddush HaShem and simple 'bystander' alike...

But I'm more concerned with the Living, and whether there will BE a Jewish State a decade hence. I'm not alone in that concern, and I don't see Jews in the 22nd Century without the Land. Sorry.

"Turning and turning in the widening gyre
The falcon cannot hear the falconer;
Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold;
Mere anarchy is loosed upon the world,
The blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere
The ceremony of innocence is drowned;
The best lack all conviction, while the worst
Are full of passionate intensity."

Yeats, of course.

3. benjamin said:

And what rough beast -- forged at the hands of Eidelberg and his like, who are sharpening their blades for another siege of Jerusalem, complete with sinat chinam -- its time come round at last, goes slouching towards Bethelehem -- ironically enough -- to be born?

I know my Yeats as well. What was it he said? "The best lack all convictions, while the worst are full of passionate intensity."

4. Tiburon said:

I see astounding 'inversion' here. Anyone?

5. Tiburon said:

BTW, It'd be appreciated if we could get some help clarifying what constitutes a "clear majority" down on the comment thread to the original article posted below - "Orange Stars".

I for one am 'outa here'....

Merry Xmas to All, appropriately...and Shabbat Shalom to the rest.

6. Joseph Alexander Norland said:

I have come to realize that trying to convince the likes of Benjamin is utterly futile. It is almost like trying to convince a religious person to become an atheist: you either believe or you don't. Period.

Still, there are statements that are manifestly unsustainable. Benjamin says, for example, "The orange stars have deeply hurt and offended a great manner (sic!) survivors of the Holocaust and their children in this country." It doesn't take a rocket scientist to come up with the following Qs:

a. How about the "survivors of the Holocaust and their children in this country" who supported and even initiated the orange star campaign?
b. Show me the numbers: how many support and how many object. Vague "a great many" will not do.
c. Why all the ink over the Orange Star, when what is at stake is the substance - surrendering chunks of the Land of Israel, rewarding terrorists, buying into the Arab propaganda about "the Palestinian people", accepting Oslo III ("Roadmap"), etc. Benjamin: You come to me fiddling about Orange Stars when Jerusalem is burning?

7. Tiburon said:

Joseph: - "You come to me fiddling about Orange Stars when Jerusalem is burning?"

Sweet and pithy (like a sabra! ;-))!!

8. benjamin said:

Your right Joseph, its pointless to argue with me, I am merely seeking to point out elementary violations of human decency on the part of your compatriots, violations which any sane person could recognize without demanding numbers. At any rate, the outcry from Holocaust survivors has been immense in this country, as has been reflected in the speed with which the orange star wearers have backed down. I await the poll numbers.

Pity [sic!] enough for you?