1. BobW said:

ISn't it time to look at the other side of the glas of water with the miniscus at the 50% mark?

All nation-states approach multilateral organizations with suspicion. This is inherent in world politics. When the UN did not exist, synagogues were still destroyed and Jewish graves were still desecrated.

There is a hidden blessing for Israel resident in the UN's operations. Second and third parties recognize the significance of Cuba and Saudi Arabia's UN positions. Israel needs only a photocopier to prove its diplomatic points.

As a sidebar; when Israel takes "hits" at the UN, it is also required to know why the Israeli response so frequently fails. One way to understand this is to see what the Government of Israel does with its diplomatic talent (some being world class. I'm thinking of Yossi Ben-Aharon). It's easy to blame all Jewish and Israeli problems on external sources. Look closer.

Kol tuv,
BobW

2. Banu Alkan said:

>Israel needs only a photocopier to prove its diplomatic points.

wow :)) rotfl

3. TheLoneCabbage said:

> All nation-states approach multilateral organizations with suspicion.

But they are rarely viewed as hostile. Even the League of Nations was viewed, at best as impotent. The UN has been outright hostile to Israel. Given the balance of it's membership this isn't suprising. (We need not only count Arab states as obviously antagonistic to Israel)

To attempt to view Israels relations to the UN as normative, is entertaining, but ultimately a work of mental gymnastics.

> When the UN did not exist, synagogues were still destroyed and Jewish graves were still desecrated.

Yes, that's why we NEED Israel. No one expects the UN to rush in with it's brave peace keeping forces and rescue Jewish intrests. We would however expect, from a "multilateral" governing body, equal or at least quasi-sympathetic retoric on par with what they dish out every time an Arab is insulted by Israel.

The point isn't that the UN isn't doing it's job. The point is to demostrate that the UN has a history of bias in doing it's job. Whether the UN it's doing it's job is for another discussion.

> One way to understand this is to see what the Government of Israel does with its diplomatic talent

Israel has an over abundance of talented, well spoken, and well educated olim from all over the world. Those olim, however, do not have protectsia. Diplomatic positions go to those with connections and friends in the gov't. That's not so abnormal, most gov'ts make ambassador's of important buisness men, and their families. But those are 'old' countries, where the people who have the internal contacts to make ambasador also have the history, culture, and international contacts to make something of their posting (usually). Israel is not 60 years old, and her 'diplomats' act as if petulant children; which is fine, since most of them don't speek the local language, and can't do much damage.

> It's easy to blame all Jewish and Israeli problems on external sources. Look closer.

Have you been here long? Have you not read the posts talking about the snake pit we call the Keneset?

Looking closely I do blame Israel/Jews. 99% of our problems stem from our own lack of unity. I'm not calling for facism, but hey how about just pinning down what it is we call a Jew? Is Israel a secular or a jewish state? Can we work on putting chiloni and charedi children in the same room without their parrents burning the gan down?

But at the same time it's important to remember, especialy with the Israeli "World Please Love Me" fetish, that the UN is not the benificent arbiter of the future we would hope for.

4. Joseph Alexander Norland said:

Also see:

http://www.israpundit.com/archives/2004/12/david_meirlevi_4.php

5. BobW said:

Shalom Lone Cabbage,

Allowing for uncertainity, our views are probably 99.9% identical.

First, some technical exceptions;
look at Singapore-surrounded by hostile and jealous Islamic nations. The overseas Chinese of Singapore beat them at their own game - and now control the hostile neighbors. Look at Ireland. There are more examples. The UN is no longer the UN of its immediate post WWII vintage.

Israel still remains in the UN. There is a reason for this. Sukarno once removed Indonesia from the UN. Japan once quit the League. Israel uses the UN just like the US and Cape Verde use the UN. It serves a purpose. The UN is a non issue.

Israel has been divided since day one in 1948 ce. There was a reason Ho Chi Minh offered David Ben Guron a homeland area in Vietnam. The socialists of Israel control Israel. Israel's external enemies are the same facing other nations.

The Knesset is like the UN. Israel's real legislative power eminates from the Prime Minister's Office.

Most of the world's population do not think highly of the OPEC pricing history.

Kol tuv,
BobW