1. Aaron Eitan Meyer said:

And people are wondering why Bush isn't talking to her? Let her stand as long as she wants, just like the loonies in NYC parks do in the afternoon.

2. Jeremy Brock said:

I can't say what Cindy Sheehan believes, but I suspect that it isn't as twisted as you have made it sound. What's wrong with wanting Israel to commit to just policies where it concerns the Palestinians? How is forcing people out of there homes for sixty years morally or ethically just or fair? As I said , i am not sure but I think the agenda she refers to is unquestioning support by the US government for the policies and actions of Israel that have led to a spiral of violence on both sides.

It doesn't seem as though the Crawford Peace House advocates the destruction of Israel either, which you would know if you had read their mission statement on the page you link to.

Why can't ultra-conservatives offer up real criticism instead of fabrications?

3. fleur said:

I don't see how her comments make her anti-semite. If I say I don't want my state to give funds to another state, am I against that state? If I say that I don't want the government to provide funds for the teaching of ebonics, am I racist? Your logic is faulty, but then I suspect you already know that. I have a feeling that logic is not what you are trying to expouse. You just want to sully someone's name and take away from the very real situation that men and women are dying for lies told by this administration.

4. Dianne C. Foster said:

I think that Mrs. Sheehan is using shorthand for what is patently obvious: if Israel had opposed our
move into Iraq, we would have heard from them. Instead, we have heard nothing but murmurs of approval from the top.

There were isolationists in all America's foreign wars, without their having been anti-anyone.

When your child has been killed and the story getting him to serve was that he was defending the United States from terror, and you find that every word getting him there was a lie or a spin, you can be angry.
Do you think Howard Zinn, Noam Chomsky, Paul Krugman or many others are anti-semites? If you do, then
you are not playing with the same deck I'm playing with.

5. Aaron said:

"It is not anti-semetic to criticize the policies of Israel" - Colin Powell

6. Laura said:

Because I hate to criticize a woman whos son died in service to this country I will give her the benefit of the doubt and assume perhaps she is being exploited by radical leftists who actually wrote the letter and put words in her mouth or have brainwashed her in her grief.

As for Jeremy Brock, if she did speak those words then yes the statement amounts to anti-Semitism. The statement wasn't merely a criticism of foreign policy but a traditional blood libel blaming Jews for her sons death. The same old conspiracy theories of the hidden hand of Jews controlling everything. No American soldier has ever died in defense of Israel, they have always fought their own battles. However American soldiers have died in defense of other countries, even muslim ones, yet no one gets angry over those losses. I hear no complaints about American soldiers dying for those people. It seems that certain people only become enraged at the mere prospect that their sons might be risked in some military adventure that just might happen to benefit Israel even if that's not the real purpose. Can you imagine the reaction if we actually did go to war to save Israel like we did to save Kuwait and Saudi Arabia in the gulf war, or in Kosovo etc.?

7. Rafael said:

Cindy Sheehan seems to be simply asking one simple question, that surely deserves an answer. Why did the US go to war with Iraq? The reasons given turned out to all be lies. Intelligence was "cooked", that is to say filtered to support an apriori opinion. Interestingly, at an anti Sheehan rally it was reported that people were chanting "I don't care" in response to the now proven fact that Bush lied about his reasons for going to war. I'm sure Hitler's supporters also just didn't care that he lied to them. Such a simple question - WHY DID THE US GO TO WAR IN IRAQ? And one might add, why does the US government continually lie about the reasons? Surely a mother has the right to demand to know why Bush sent her son to his death.

8. Laura said:

Wow there are those who despise Israel so much that they will simply come to a pro-Israel sight just to post their anti-Israel rantings. You people really have an obsessive hatred bordering on the pathological.

9. Laura said:

joe the only people who are guilty of theft, murder and ethnic cleansing are the arab muslims. Just ask the Kurds, Christians, the Egyptian Copts etc.

10. Laura said:

Actually chomsky is an anti-Semite, believe it or not there are Jewish anti-Semites.

11. Laura said:

Just look at chomsky's alliance with nazis.

12. Roseanne said:

Cindy Sheehan has the right to any opinion she wants to speak out on. Israel has
nothing to say about what an American can or can not say! Just stay in the background
and keep taking money off Americans like Cindy Sheehan! We are all waking up to
who the United States is defending, it isn't anti-semitism...it's called patriotism
for THE UNITED STATES and the AMERICAN PEOPLE...GET IT STRAIGHT!!!!!
In answer to Laura...who have you sacrificed in Iraq and where do you make your living?
I think that is who you should be showing allegience to, not a foreign government!

13. Jason said:

Laura, you might want to check these out . . .

A List of UN SECURITY COUNCIL RESOLUTIONS against Israel

1955-1992:

* Resolution 106: " . . . 'condemns' Israel for Gaza raid".
* Resolution 111: " . . . 'condemns' Israel for raid on Syria that killed fifty-six people".
* Resolution 127: " . . . 'recommends' Israel suspends it's 'no-man's zone' in Jerusalem".
* Resolution 162: " . . . 'urges' Israel to comply with UN decisions".
* Resolution 171: " . . . determines flagrant violations' by Israel in its attack on Syria".
* Resolution 228: " . . . 'censures' Israel for its attack on Samu in the West Bank, then under Jordanian control".
* Resolution 237: " . . . 'urges' Israel to allow return of new 1967 Palestinian refugees".
* Resolution 248: " . . . 'condemns' Israel for its massive attack on Karameh in Jordan".
* Resolution 250: " . . . 'calls' on Israel to refrain from holding military parade in Jerusalem".
* Resolution 251: " . . . 'deeply deplores' Israeli military parade in Jerusalem in defiance of Resolution 250".
* Resolution 252: " . . . 'declares invalid' Israel's acts to unify Jerusalem as Jewish capital".
* Resolution 256: " . . . 'condemns' Israeli raids on Jordan as 'flagrant violation".
* Resolution 259: " . . . 'deplores' Israel's refusal to accept UN mission to probe occupation".
* Resolution 262: " . . . 'condemns' Israel for attack on Beirut airport".
* Resolution 265: " . . . 'condemns' Israel for air attacks for Salt in Jordan".
* Resolution 267: " . . . 'censures' Israel for administrative acts to change the status of Jerusalem".
*Resolution 270: " . . . 'condemns' Israel for air attacks on villages in southern Lebanon".
* Resolution 271: " . . . 'condemns' Israel's failure to obey UN resolutions on Jerusalem".
* Resolution 279: " . . . 'demands' withdrawal of Israeli forces from Lebanon".
* Resolution 280: " . . . 'condemns' Israeli's attacks against Lebanon".
* Resolution 285: " . . . 'demands' immediate Israeli withdrawal form Lebanon".
* Resolution 298: " . . . 'deplores' Israel's changing of the status of Jerusalem".
* Resolution 313: " . . . 'demands' that Israel stop attacks against Lebanon".
* Resolution 316: " . . . 'condemns' Israel for repeated attacks on Lebanon".
* Resolution 317: " . . . 'deplores' Israel's refusal to release Arabs abducted in Lebanon".
* Resolution 332: " . . . 'condemns' Israel's repeated attacks against Lebanon".
* Resolution 337: " . . . 'condemns' Israel for violating Lebanon's sovereignty".
* Resolution 347: " . . . 'condemns' Israeli attacks on Lebanon".
* Resolution 425: " . . . 'calls' on Israel to withdraw its forces from Lebanon".
* Resolution 427: " . . . 'calls' on Israel to complete its withdrawal from Lebanon.
* Resolution 444: " . . . 'deplores' Israel's lack of cooperation with UN peacekeeping forces".
* Resolution 446: " . . . 'determines' that Israeli settlements are a 'serious
obstruction' to peace and calls on Israel to abide by the Fourth Geneva Convention".
* Resolution 450: " . . . 'calls' on Israel to stop attacking Lebanon".
* Resolution 452: " . . . 'calls' on Israel to cease building settlements in occupied territories".
* Resolution 465: " . . . 'deplores' Israel's settlements and asks all member
states not to assist Israel's settlements program".
* Resolution 467: " . . . 'strongly deplores' Israel's military intervention in Lebanon".
* Resolution 468: " . . . 'calls' on Israel to rescind illegal expulsions of
two Palestinian mayors and a judge and to facilitate their return".
* Resolution 469: " . . . 'strongly deplores' Israel's failure to observe the
council's order not to deport Palestinians".
* Resolution 471: " . . . 'expresses deep concern' at Israel's failure to abide
by the Fourth Geneva Convention".
* Resolution 476: " . . . 'reiterates' that Israel's claim to Jerusalem are 'null and void'".
* Resolution 478: " . . . 'censures (Israel) in the strongest terms' for its
claim to Jerusalem in its 'Basic Law'".
* Resolution 484: " . . . 'declares it imperative' that Israel re-admit two deported
Palestinian mayors".
* Resolution 487: " . . . 'strongly condemns' Israel for its attack on Iraq's
nuclear facility".
* Resolution 497: " . . . 'decides' that Israel's annexation of Syria's Golan
Heights is 'null and void' and demands that Israel rescinds its decision forthwith".
* Resolution 498: " . . . 'calls' on Israel to withdraw from Lebanon".
* Resolution 501: " . . . 'calls' on Israel to stop attacks against Lebanon and withdraw its troops".
* Resolution 509: " . . . 'demands' that Israel withdraw its forces forthwith and unconditionally from Lebanon".
* Resolution 515: " . . . 'demands' that Israel lift its siege of Beirut and
allow food supplies to be brought in".
* Resolution 517: " . . . 'censures' Israel for failing to obey UN resolutions
and demands that Israel withdraw its forces from Lebanon".
* Resolution 518: " . . . 'demands' that Israel cooperate fully with UN forces in Lebanon".
* Resolution 520: " . . . 'condemns' Israel's attack into West Beirut".
* Resolution 573: " . . . 'condemns' Israel 'vigorously' for bombing Tunisia
in attack on PLO headquarters.
* Resolution 587: " . . . 'takes note' of previous calls on Israel to withdraw
its forces from Lebanon and urges all parties to withdraw".
* Resolution 592: " . . . 'strongly deplores' the killing of Palestinian students
at Bir Zeit University by Israeli troops".
* Resolution 605: " . . . 'strongly deplores' Israel's policies and practices
denying the human rights of Palestinians.
* Resolution 607: " . . . 'calls' on Israel not to deport Palestinians and strongly
requests it to abide by the Fourth Geneva Convention.
* Resolution 608: " . . . 'deeply regrets' that Israel has defied the United Nations and deported Palestinian civilians".
* Resolution 636: " . . . 'deeply regrets' Israeli deportation of Palestinian civilians.
* Resolution 641: " . . . 'deplores' Israel's continuing deportation of Palestinians.
* Resolution 672: " . . . 'condemns' Israel for violence against Palestinians
at the Haram al-Sharif/Temple Mount.
* Resolution 673: " . . . 'deplores' Israel's refusal to cooperate with the United
Nations.
* Resolution 681: " . . . 'deplores' Israel's resumption of the deportation of
Palestinians.
* Resolution 694: " . . . 'deplores' Israel's deportation of Palestinians and
calls on it to ensure their safe and immediate return.
* Resolution 726: " . . . 'strongly condemns' Israel's deportation of Palestinians.
* Resolution 799: ". . . 'strongly condemns' Israel's deportation of 413 Palestinians
and calls for their immediate return.

14. Adam Selene said:

Two definitions from the Merriam-Webster dictionary...

Main Entry: Sem•ite
Pronunciation: 'se-"mIt, esp British 'sE-"mIt
Function: noun
Etymology: French sémite, from Semitic Shem, from Late Latin, from Greek SEm, from Hebrew ShEm
Date: 1848
1 a : a member of any of a number of peoples of ancient southwestern Asia, including the Akkadians, Phoenicians, Hebrews, and Arabs
b : a descendant of these peoples

Main Entry: an•ti-Sem•i•tism
Pronunciation: "an-ti-'se-m&-"ti-z&m, "an-"tI-
Function: noun
Date: 1882
: hostility toward or discrimination against Jews as a religious, ethnic, or racial group

15. Emi of Brie said:

Point the first:
I perused the Crawford Peace House site, and there is nothing there that advocates the removal of the country of Israel.

Point the second:
Sheehan, and many others, believe that a cabal of Zionists are in control, not a cabal of Jews in general. Zionists can be any one of a multitude of religions, mostly Jew and Christian. Not all (in fact, very few) Christians and Jews are Zionists, who usually believe that everyone NEEDS to believe as they do. For the record, I am a Christian myself.

Point the third:
Critisism of Israel as a political entity is not anti-Semitism. That's like saying criticism of Ireland or Italy is anti-Catholic...or that critisicm of Washington DC politics is anti-American. In fact, the latter one is about as American as it gets, according to the Constitution.

Point the fourth:
Bush LIED to start this war. Even the mainstream media has reported that intelligence was faked. And now I hear that cries of "we don't care" from the pro-Bush camp are starting to become more prevalent. How can someone NOT CARE that a war was based on falsified information???

Point the fifth:
Israel practices apartheid. Look up their lawbooks for yourself. People get all kinds of special rights in that country for being Jewish, they are building their Berl--*ahem* Israeli Wall keeping the Palestinians from their lands as defined in 1967. You know, with all that going on, the Palestinians are going to get pissed off! It's human nature for the oppressed to try to attack the oppressors. Do I fully agree with how the Palestinians going about it? No. But I can understand their anger at being discriminsted against! As a comparison, before the Israeli Revolution in the late 1940s, the area was rather peaceful. The current Israeli government was set up through force. US entered Iraq by force...

And remember that between 1775 and 1783, it is the AMERICANS that were being considered "terorists" in the UK-controlled mainstream media! Remember that! One man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter.

16. Aaron Eitan Meyer said:

The misinformation and nonsensical propaganda that has pervaded these posts is overwhelming. It seems anyone with a subscription to the NY Times and an affinity for al-Jazeera-style rhetoric feels compelled to spew. Don't waste our time, please. Go back to your nice small ultra-left hole and leave the dialogue to those who don't spout nonsense.

17. Tamar said:

IsraPundit welcomes other viewpoints as long as they are conveyed in a responsible manner.

A mere two or three years ago those of us who warned of betrayal at the hands of Sharon, Bush, and the State Dept. were labeled "Anti-Semites" by a few people also. Although I strongly disagree with the burned-out protestors in Crawford Texas.....I defend their right to waste their twilight years in the hot, dusty, Texas roadside.

18. Laura said:

Anti-Zionism is not anti-Semitism
.....................................................

It most certainly is.

Jason I cannot take seriously resolutions passed by an institution that is controlled by the arab league in a world dependent on arab oil, an institution where countries like Libya, Syria and the Sudan have sat on its "human rights" commission. The UN is a sick joke.

mohammed I will not fall for your propaganda, I know how horribly Jews were treated in islamic countries, which is why the vast majority of them fled.

I am also on to the fact that you have posted all of these messages under different names or you invited your jihadi friends to post here. There are far too many posts in a short time all with the same hostile anti-Israel view. There are never this many comments to a post on Israpundit and certainly not this many that are anti-Israel.

19. Laura said:

The best way to solve the worlds problems is to drop nukes on Saudi arabia, syria, iran, iraq and eliminate the world's islamic parasites who contribute nothing to mankind but mass murder. muslims are the same as nazis. arab-islam is a depraved culture, a sick death cult and the worst danger to the world since the nazis. What is it about muslim men that you brutally repress women? Are you so insecure about your masculinity? Do you have small penises?

Go away you filthy islamo-fascist creatures posting on this board. Whether you are the same person or an organized group who wait around just to post your nazi rantings in response to my posts or any other decent, normal human beings.

20. fleur said:

i found this site through this link
http://writingright.typepad.com/writingright/2005/08/cindy_sheehan_a.html
and then commented about it at a few sites. i don't think you can blame one person for all these comments even if some are over the top.

21. Laura said:

fleur well it's obvious that this is an organized group if not the same person.

22. Paul Freedman said:

Anti-semitism will end when there are no more anti-semites. As the posters on this blog demonstrates, the hatred against the Jew is eternal, whether it pretends to make a distinction between the fictional world-wide Zionist-Rothschild conpsiracy and Judaism or between anti-Judaism and anti-Semitism. Jews wake up!! In the war to come when the Palestinians rally themselves to exploit the filth and poison and hatred spewed forth form the vomit-filled Satanic abyss of their legions of supporters in the United States and the West--a war against Amelek will be required. The sun must be blotted out from the sky of Amelek in our generation, his way must be shattered and his seed embittered. Amelek must know not of sleep nor of rest. The G-d of Israel will redeem his people and punish Amelek who has made an idol of the Lord of Israel--their god is false, their way is cursed, their name is blotted out from the book of memory.

May the Lord, our God of Israel, redeem his people in their hour of need.
May the Lord, our God of Israel, remembeer his promise to his patriarchs.
May the Lord, our God of Israel, cast out Amelek from his throne of filth.
May the Lord, our God of Israel, bless his people Israel and bring peace to his long-suffering faithful.

For we have not abandoned You, our Redeemeer. We have remembered Your Name.

Remove the idolater from their idolatry.

May Moshiach come in our days and may the Children of the Long Suffering One witness the Revelation of his Abiding Truth.

Say Amen.

23. Paul Freedman said:

No, Amelek is filth who must be exterminated. G_d is not you G_d. He is propery ONLY the G-d of Israel. And Nah-Nah "anti-Semitism" was a term marketed by the German Jew-haters based on the linguistic theories of the time. We are stuck with it. And fuckhead why don't you get your pupik out of your scab-filled teeth and look over the rest of the posts, you flaming asshole. Doug, fuck you too.

24. Paul Freedman said:

Look, you anti-Semites know who you are. You troll around the internet and piss all over sites where Israel is discussed, particularly when pro-Israeli sentiment is discussed, just as you piss all over discussions groups that start off as meeting places for Jews. Fuck all of you. You think verbal violence is some kind of joke? That only some lame, Christian retard has the ability to bully? And the rest of you pasty-faced goyischer goddamn adolescent smart-aleks who think this is some kind of goddam amusing game to watch people spread their goyischer fat legs and shit all over the Jewish State and the people who defend the Jewish State--it is not a game--incidently my palalmyass genetic tests reveal an unbroken ancestry uniting Jewish males back to the first Hebrews.

25. Paul Freedman said:

Doug, the simple truth is that our kind is depsited by your kind because we haven't yet succeeded in killing you.

26. Paul Freedman said:

Make that despised.

You know, if you kids are going to keep coming back here and whine about what the "Zionists" do to the gentiles I am prepared to come back myself and stoop to your level of mindless vulgarity and brainless hatred and explain in detail to the mentally deficient subhuman spawn of monkeys and dogs represented by REVENGE IS TOO GOOD the ways in which Israel will exact revenge, not only for the Holocaust that the Palestinians assisted, but for the crimes of the ancestors whose diseased descendants think anti-Semitism and the killing of Jews is funny and diverting.

It was done in 1948.

It can be done again.

Your choice.

27. Paul Freedman said:

Doug, there are more of you, but you are stupid.

One day the God of Israel, who is the God of Israel will explain to you who broke what covenants by breaking those covenants over your stiff-neck.

You anti-Semites are already the walking dead.

God will merely fullfill that which is.

28. Paul Freedman said:

poobah, papal et. al--a final thought as you sit there in your ironic "transgressiveness"--we will put to one side the non-existent status of "rational" anti-Semitic debate (my nose mucuous is smarter than the lot of you) and consider just two questions. that is all, two questions.

a) why is the nation of Israel still here since anti-Semites such as yourselves have wished to destroy it for three millenia.

b) if the Palestininans look around the world and see the kind of thoughts that you have expressed as encouragement to continue the war against the Jews after the disengagement what will happen to them, to them, not you--you are safe in your bedrooms with your little computers, but they will stand exposed and Israel is not really all that "Jewish" a country in many ways.

That is what you don't understand and what the Palestinians have never understood.

Look, you accuse the Jews and the Zionists (same thing) of perpetrating crimes, but the typical anti-Semite is motivated by a delight in hurting, in sadistically taunting and then wounding, and then, yes, killing, a people the anti-Semite believes to be WEAK. Without that element of sadism the thrill of anti-Semitism looses part of its frisson. And so, the anti-Semite transfers this perception of Jews to Israel. The anti-Semite has the perfect wet-dream conspiracy, as did Hitler: a fight against an all-powerful evil that, nevertheless, the anti-Semite does not really believe is all-powerful, indeed the anti-Semite indulges himself in these, yes, paranoic fantasies, fundamentally to make fun of the Jew--because the anti-Semite at bottom believes the Jew is as weak as a cockroach and unable to defend himself. This probably has something to do, ultimately, with theological interpretations of the ultimately illusory power of Satan given Christ's eschatalogical victory--but this is a matter over the heads of the truant Jew-bashers attracted to this page.

The problem is, for the Palestinians, that the Israeli people, as a nation, as a particular state, as a subset of the Jewish people, is, vis a vis the Palestinians, truly at a fantastic advantage in military power and the Israeli people ARE capable of deploying overwhelming power in very cruel ways.

That is to say, the Israeli people ARE capable of exhibiting the "tropes" of ruthless strength anti-Semites attribute to Jews but do not really believe that the despised Jews (weak and cowardly) are capable of possessing.

What I am suggesting is that the Palestinians will surely suffer for the hatred exhibited by the mocking Jew-baiters of this site. They really will suffer.

29. Paul Freedman said:

Doug, read my last post. I believe that the Palestinians will largely suffer for your sins.

If it comes to purifying the World of Creation from anti-Semites, I have proposed that this will be done with Divine Assisstance. Wait two or three weeks, after disengagement, and see what happens. But Israel will not go away as a country without, yes, a Holocaust, I believe, of apocalypic proportions. But no, Goys such as yourself are plenty stupid.

30. Paul Freedman said:

truthseeker--yes all real Jews are Zionists. And, as far the end-times, read post 119.

Selah.

31. Paul Freedman said:

Incidentally I was somewhat surprised that this website blog had been commandeered by anti-Zionist/anti-Semitic (discuss amongst yourself which is which) posters--incidentally, being Jewish I don't really bother all that much to parse out the elements of sincere faith (e.g., a belief that Jews really ARE evil), self-deceiving psychological gamesmanship as I have proposed (a deeper belief that Jews are helpless coupled to a sadistic propensity to terrorize), or just cynical malice in the endless double-judgement of those who wish to deny Israel its right to exist. Whatever the roots of anti-Semitism; and it is clear, that many posters on this page have much more than political differences with Israel or its supporters, or even animosity towards it, but deeply held and embedded contempt for and hatred of Jew; I am distressed that you guys are here. The Jewish faith holds that Amelek, the intransigent enemy of Jews, is reborn with every generation, and, generally, end-time prophecy such as you've read from my posts, is not encouraged.

So, the idea is that Amelek, you guys, do NOT go away. But I am very unhappy that you feel you can use this website, as well as other pro-Jewish websites, as a place to defecate. I don't go to Palestinian websites and threaten Palestinians or mock their desire for state. I don't go to Christian discussion groups and proclaim the illegitimacy of the Christian Messiah--and not merely for fear of antagonizing people who are more numerous than the Jews, but out of a simple sense of appropriateness, of decency, of politeness.

But I come here, to what I take to be a "living room", a place where Jews can discuss things, and what do I find--rants, childish flames, and flame-bait.

Why? What are you doing here? Who invited you? Surely there are multitudes of websites where you can get together to sit by the electronic fire of imprecations against Zionists, of the Jews, and of rosy promises that you've-seen-the-light and the end-is-near. Well, maybe, but your parents didn't teach you simple respect for the meeting places of people who disagree with you, who may even be your enemies? You have to "tag" their websites?

I've suggested to the website that they begin a policy of moderating these blog contributions.

32. Paul Freedman said:

My final comment--post #130 expresses my summary viewpoint--coming from opposite perspectives, Doug, I do not support the current level of financial assistance to Israel. As someone who is obviously comfortable with Israeli radicalism, I also believe the money is neither necessary nor a clear benefit. FYI it was originally conceived as a way to payoff interest on military loans (and maybe a little of the principal)--that is, starting with President Johnson, America had given Israel not direct aid, but loans, and the interest mounted up. So the idea was that Israel would receive AID that could be recycled back to pay off the INTEREST on the old LOANS. Meanwhile, unless I am mistaken, additional military aid was extended to Israel that had to be used for the purchase of AMERICAN military equipment.

But dependence on this aid grew. I believe Israel uses it to do things it might not do otherwise--such as the disengagement and previous concessions to the Palestinians. Anti-Semites typically neither understand the Jews as a real people, nor Israel as a real state--thus your belief that Israel would not really exist without outside aid. That is incorrect. American taxpayers, that includes me, but let's use it in the sense you meant Doug, American Christians, are NOT the "source" of Israel's existence.

What is? Well, I would obviously believe that HaShem is in an ultimate sense. I honestly believe that, yes, there is a God who created the Heavens and the Earth and that, yes, he has a special relationship with the Jews, and this faith is, as all the monotheistic faiths ARE, to some degree mutually exclusive, in a logical way, with the other faiths. Relativism cannot solve all our theological difficulties here. But, more practically speaking, the Israeli people are the source of their own existence. They are very hardworking and very advanced technologically. Their Army, for example, exists because citizens are drafted and engage in a lot of hard training for weeks on end. Their scientists, Israeli Jewish scientists, not Jewish scientists per se, are very inventive and do a lot of profoundly useful fundamental scientific research that is of value to every citizen of the planet, and for this they receive many, many Nobel prizes. And so, unlike the Palestinian Authority (that is also afflicted by pursuit of a war it has yet to win) Israel is NOT a welfare-dependency.

But yes, I think a good argument can be made that Israel's internal economic arrangements are distorted by the current aid regieme; difficult economic choices are endlessly deferred through the ability to avoid trade-offs. As should be clear, I also believe that hard diplomatic and military choices are deferred, too. I would have no objection, personally, to the aid being cut in half or even ended.

But that's me.

33. Paul Freedman said:

To #137, I wish there could be peace. But as long as Palestinians encourage and welcome the aggressive, taunting contempt for Jews and Zionism (the Land of Israel is not the sole value of the Jewish religion, but it IS a part of it) we are all fucked. I note that papalwhathisface believes that "the Jews" and not Al Qaeda were ultimately reponsible for 9/11. I wish there could be peace. But I honestly believe that many gentiles share the apparently necessary disgust with Jews, contempt for Jews, fear of Jews, and physical desire to harm Jews that are so richly displayed on this web page--and yes, should it come to that, I do believe the Lord will show his true face. Look, Palestinian clergy openly preach an Islam that calls for extermination of the Jews and they derive encouragement from those who post here. We could be facing a terrible tragedy and I do not believe that Jews can permit themselves the luxury of poltical or biological suicide.

34. Paul Freedman said:

Doug, I'm glad your true sentiments are expressed. I await with curiosity your opinion on dual-national American-Palestinians.

I was unaware that the punishment for being a traitor was vivisection. Like you, however, I immensely enjoyed (if that is the word for it) "Last House on the Left", unlike youself, however, that movie neither describes my political style nor its content.

Bye bye.

35. Paul Freedman said:

My last comment, I promse, and brief (I also promise)

eddie_uk: What the eff? Your keyboard got stuck on KEY CAPS AND EVERYTHING IS HARDTOREADBECAUSEITISALLABIGJUMBLEJIMMENYCRICKETOHBLIMEY!!!!!!!!!!!! :-{

36. Tomsan said:

From Laura

"There are never this many comments to a post on Israpundit and certainly not this many that are anti-Israel"
-Guess what? People have found this blog and many ARE anti-Israel. You can call me what you like , but I NEVER have criticized anyone on the basis of their religion. But as person with human rights I will bloody well speak my political opinions. How dare you suggest I can't have my own opinion based on the facts about the State of Israel.

37. Paul Freedman said:

Damn, you guys are too clever by far you've now caught me out in numerous lies and deceptions. As such, I feel compelled to raise my hand and accept that I am a murderous deluded psycopath who gets off on the thought of the death and maiming of innocents. No apologies, obviously, as I am sick and twisted beyond redemption: a bullet to the back of the head would do very nicely, however.
Thanks for pointing out the error of my ways,
Paul Freedman,
A.K.A Aaron Eitan Meyer,
A.K.A Laura (When I'm wearing my dress)

38. Al said:

People: Jews are not Zionist!

Keep that in your mind, don't mix it up!
Jews love peace just as everybody else, Jews don't steal and murder. They don't defend evil...
So don't put them in the same place as those who do...

39. Ed D said:

I don't know where all of this bashing is cming from; however my first guess is that they are uneducated, poor trash who if they went to school, couldn't pass the first grade. Personally, I thing that they are probably adolescents, who with little knowledge, become dangerous or they are adults with under developed brains. Listen up, regardless what they call people like you, no nation in the world has come close to the high moral standarda of Israel and Jewish people world wide. With this little bit of info, why don't you go crawl into the hole you came from.

40. al said:

excatly ed!

41. Paul Freedman said:

To American Jews who support disengagement and consider themselves liberal: I ask you to read the various posts by Doug, papalwhatever, etc. when considering how we should confront reality post-disengagement.

Considering that mainstream media such as the Washington Post, NBC and on ann on have supported Ms. Sheehan's campaign, notwithstanding not only her particular brand of conspiracy theorizing but the more overtly anti-Semitic hatred displayed by her sympathizers on this blog--what is the environment in which Israel has to operate? After all, Bush was elected by the American people, he IS President, the Congress has time and time again approved of aid to Israel and yet, for those appearing on this blog, none of this really matters. We must understand, for these people NO pro-Israeli stance by a majority elected government will ever legitimize support for Israel. It will only demonstrate to them that significant sectors of the government are under the thumb of ZOG, however they formulate it, and feed into whatever forms of political or familial or psychological alienation they suffer from.

These are not individuals who are amenable to argumentation or who "debate" in an open-ended humanistic desire to explore ambiguity or difficult issues. Their minds are made up. Note that we have an entire variety of anti-Semitic tropes on display here, only excluding, for whatever that means, the blood libel, though maybe it was included. That is, not only do we have charges of dual-loyalty (after all, my premise is that for the anti-Semite, no--he hopes temporary--majority of non-Jews to support Israel through our democracy ever removes that stain or removes the stench of illegitimacy to any expression of Zionism) but we have reprises of Christian contempt (God has abandoned you for breaking covenants), genealogical fabrications (Jews are descended from the Kazariis) and outright political fantasies (the Jews did 9/11).

And yet these are some of the grass-roots supporters, Israpundit claims key supporters, of Ms. Sheehan, who herself, notwithstanding that her own family denounces this PR campaign, then receives mainstream support from "liberal" media.

So we have a liberal concensus that is more or less "pro-Palestinian" that then enables "activists" who are themselves "anti-Israel/Zionist" whose own supporters are, to put it mildly,, out and out Jew-baiters. That they often articulate themselves without sophistication (and some contributors on this page may be minors) is not the point. Intellectually National Socialism was crude, it was adolescent, it was pseudo-intellectual, dogmatic, and irrational. But it took over a country and, before its downfall, Europe.

Moreover, and this is not a trivial matter, this very blog is an example of Jewish discourse that is trashed by aggressive anti-Zionism/anti-Semitism.

I ask my fellow Jews to consider very seriously the road ahead after disengagement. I have had discussions with those who opposed it I've always thought that in and of itself it was a side issue. The real issue was what to do afterwards when Palestinian demands do not abate within a political culture in the United States that is permeated by significantly more anti-Semitism and contempt for Jews than is admitted by our Jewish establishment that seems, time and time again, outright baffled that the mainline Protestant churches should be so unsupportive or baffled.

Although we can pray for our Lord to carry our burden in meeting our foes, history teaches us that defeat is possible; our foes can triumph. We need to look at the world through open eyes.

In the interim, I believe this web blog should be moderated.

42. Paul Freedman said:

brief thought for Doug: I believe I already covered the necessary mutual exclusionary thematics of self-legitimation that play out in monotheistic faiths.

43. Paul Freedman said:

interesting, doug, though, that you should know about the noahide laws.

i aint' those guys.

44. Paul Freedman said:

oh, doug, "you should know by now, we're all liars". I can, however, stop lying. You are unable to stop hating Jews. no, no, no, this isn't "criticism"--the statement that Israel has LOWER morals than the Nazii's is just a not-too-roundabout way of saying "Hitler was right".

That's my final comment.

For today at least.

Unless I change my mind.

Hopefully, Instapundit will start moderating posts so that comments on Zionism being worse than the Nazis (like Israel killed 20 million people? I mean, to date) and then I won't have to argue with.

That french-speaking guy, he stays.

Fall Down

She said "I'm fine, I'm okay" cover up your trembling hands
There's indecision when you know you ain't got nothing left
When the good times never stay
And the cheap thrills always seem to fade away
When will we fall down

Jump back, got to get out of here
Been too long this time
Jump back, got to get out of here
When will we fall down

She hates her life she hates her skin she even hates her friends
Tries to hold on to all the reputations she can't mend
And there's some chance we could fail
But the last time someone was always there for bail
When will we fall down

Jump back, got to get out of here
Been too long this time
Jump back, got to get out of here
When will we fall down

For the last time conscience calls
For a good friend I was never there at all
When will we fall down

45. Paul Freedman said:

I changed my mind. I dunno, I type these words, I press a button, and there they are, oh with somebody else's words whose doing the same thing and says, somethiing about free-speech. papalapalapal: for God's sake, you think the Jews did 9/11--your speech isn't free--it's selling at a discount. No, a moderated site is a semi-private web site which this, I think, should be--this isn't a free-speech issue particularly as (did I say this? I did say this) I am not stating that papapoalaopal websites that say MOSSAD DID 9/11; RICHARD PERLE DOES NOONERS IN NEW JERSEY TRUCKSTOPS should be banned. I was simply suggesting to the people who run this site that it should be moderated to maintain not only a sense of decorum but an atmosphere where Jews for whom the site is definitely intended, can be comfortable without being taunted.

46. Paul Freedman said:

#178--I've addressed your post at length--no, they are not neo-cons (by which you mean "smelly Jews who want to stink up the world") they are real people with a real country. WWII is not a blank check--Israel is a real, not a pretend, or imaginary country of neo-con moustache twiddlers. Unfortunately, a lot of criticism of Israel is motivated by the very stereotypical, one-sided, and yes, I will go on saying it like a broke-down accordian wheezing C-major, fundamentally anti-Jewish beliefs to begin with. The number of Jews in Israel who agree with papapaliooalkjupal, Doug, etc. can be counted on one-hand with fingers left over.

47. Cal said:

The treacherous neocons have done a great deal of harm to their zionist cause. Not only do most people who are against the war (ie most people around the world) know the Iraq attack was primarily for Israel, many people now investigate further all the other crimes (well-founded or exaggerated) of the zionists as a result of this current deceit and treason. Not just the antiwar generations of now, but also of tomorrow, are changed. I feel sorry for all the innocents (Iraqis, Palestinians, Westerners of today and yesterday, Russians, and, yes, Jews) who have been and will be victims of the anti-human power-hungry jewish ideology.

Sheehan would make mincemeat out of Bush. Maybe she will without even speaking to him. Blessings to her and her campaign.