Portugal shows the way

Portugal shows the way

I noticed this post on For Israel, and Justice . Portugal was not on my radar screen so I very much appreciated being told why. Perhaps we have something to learn from them?

It wasn't long {while in Portugal) before my wife noticed the complete apparent lack of Muslims. I went to Lisbon, and various smaller cities, and although I am sure they exist in Portugal, there were no Muslims to be seen.

I talked about this with a friend, who told me that Portugal is a 'racist' country (his words). Portugal has its colonial past, and blacks live there, but they are only 'tolerated'. "If there's any crap from them, they get in trouble, both from the police and from people in general. And there's virtually nobody who then takes the side of the trespasser". I was told much the same goes for Muslims.


There is exactly one (1) mosque in Lisbon. Lisbon is a much bigger city than Amsterdam, but the latter has 57 mosques at the latest count, small and large. The other three larger cities have similar numbers of mosques.

Racism is not a solution for anything, certainly not for Islam, which is not a race to begin with. But the attitude of not taking any shit is a sensible one, PARTICULARLY in the case of Muslims.

Holland is slowly waking up to Muslim extremism, but it is trying to use existing laws to fight the radicals. This does not work, because anything that targets Islam specifically (which is what is needed) comes down to a form of discrimination, which is (rightly) illegal.
But Islam is a special case. Just as membership of neo-Nazi groups is prohibited, so Islam can be made a special case. Groups like the Rote Armee Faction (AKA Baader-Meinhof) were declared illegal, mostly because their purpose was in fact to overthrow the democratic countries, and replace it with socialist or anarchist entities.

Their aim was to destroy the host countries.

Islam has that same goal.[..]


Posted by Ted Belman at August 29, 2005 09:07 AM

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Comments

1. Rui said:

The muslims here donīt create any kind of problems. Why? I do not know.
I think it is a case to study.
I am portuguese, I don believe that my country is racist, we use to accept everykind of people if they accept us.
It is true that Portugal has is past of a colonial country but it is also true that there is a lot of portuguese people all over the world.

Posted by: Rui on August 29, 2005 10:21 AM

2. citizen of the world said:

Wow! Who's the racist here?

"the attitude of not taking any shit is a sensible one, PARTICULARLY in the case of Muslims."
Would you accept a similar comment like:

"the attitude of not taking any shit is a sensible one, PARTICULARLY in the case of Jews."

Why don't you count the number of synagogues in New York and compare it to the number of synagogues in Porto. Would you again say that Portugal "shows the way". Your comment can only be considered as racist (but I guess you think if it's not anti-semitic it's ok, right?).

Posted by: citizen of the world on August 29, 2005 10:36 AM

3. dany belinfante said:

First off: You cannot be racist vis-a-vis Muslims. They are not a race.
Islam is an ideology. And a very intolerant and agressive one at that. It is in this context that I wrote I think it is proper not to take ANY sh*t from them.

As far as the number of Mosques having any kind of meaning: It is no secret that dawa and other forms of prozelytisation are one of the means that Islam uses to Islamize. Kenia and other African nations are very good and current examples of this, but they are in no way the only regions in the world where Saudi money is used to buy land and build mosques, even if they remain for ever empty.

Judaism is not a missionary religion. Neither is Christianity (any longer).

Islam is.

Posted by: dany belinfante on August 29, 2005 11:02 AM

4. nn said:

I am portuguese and that isn't true
We aren't racist
Muslims live among us with no problem.
If there is one Mosque in Lisbon maybe that happens because there are not much muslims in Portugal... Now... who would say that!?
Cut the crap... and be honest when you write.
Is ist so strange? Portuguese colonies were Angola, S. Tome, Mozambique, Brazil, Cape Verde.
Those countries don't have islamic roots. We have many cristhian churches - and not only catholic. Even jews we don't have many. THere is one sinagoge in Lisbon. One...
Cheers

PS: and don't make wrong conclusions without trying to understand what you are talking about.
And yes... Muslims are not a race... Islam is a faith! and a respected one

Posted by: nn on August 29, 2005 11:47 AM

5. BobW said:

Shalom NN,

My only experience with Portugal has been many visits to Macau, Portugese China. When Lisbon wanted to leave the oldest European colony in Asia, the Chinese wanted Portugal to remain. I hold an English language Portugese government brochure calling Macau "Chinese territory administered by Portugal".

Was there any recent political disturbances - or reactions - in Portugal regarding Muslim-Christian relations concerning Timor/Ocussi? I know in other areas of Indonesia there was the "religion" conflict, thus my question. Thanks in advance.

Kol tuv, all the best,

BobW
USA

Posted by: BobW on August 29, 2005 01:55 PM

6. Zarroba said:

I'm portuguese too and regarding the post in its origin For Israel, For Justice Blog.
Regarding Timor, the independence fight didn't had much to do with religion but simple because Indonesia invaded Timor-Lorosae in 1974/75 when the portuguese dictatorship was overthrowned. The main religion is Catholic but, for example, the Prime-Minister Mario Alcatiri is Muslim. There is no religious conflict in Timor although sometimes some little disturbances may occur (The last problem was the intention of the government to take a catholic discipline in the school off the curriculum because in the constitution Timor is a lay state).

Posted by: Zarroba on August 29, 2005 03:32 PM

7. Pedro Teles said:

There is one Mosque in Lisbon, but we are talking about a HUGE Mosque. It is the biggest mosque in the Iberian Peninsula.

Most of the Muslims in Portugal (that is the followers of Islam) come from Guinea-Bissau and Mozambique. We don't have, in Portugal , the same waves of immigrants from Northern Africa as other European Nations, for instance. Therefore I presume we really don't have many Muslims in our country (the biggest foreign community is from Brazil and they are mainly catholic, like us)


Posted by: Pedro Teles on August 29, 2005 08:30 PM

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