1. BobW said:

So far, the West is on the right road in addressing Islam.

The first and second largest Muslim populations are found in Indonesia and India, respectively. Both of these countries are upgrading their security forces and cultural institutions to dampen Islamic fascism. If the current President of Indonesia does not accelerate the pace, he will join Sukarno and Suharto and a US sponsored replacement will take the oath of office.

The other 2 countries to mention are Egypt and Saudi Arabia. Half the Arab Muslim population lives in Egypt. Egypt's situation is in the negative column on the chart. Saudi Arabia, too, must be listed on the negative column of the chart. Saudi will experience economic losses after the US obtains north tier Caspian oil.

America's domestic bred Black Muslims - really alienated black citizens - are being marginalized and restricted.

Can't comment on how Europe will continue to handle its Muslim problem. European problem resolution has a history of using violemce. Personally, I think the sanctity of the 13th Protocol of the European Convention On Human Rights, banning the death penalty under any circumstances, will be modified somewhat...........under certain circumstances.

Kol tuv,
BobW

2. felix quigley said:

Bob

I cannot help thinking the situation is more explosive than that and a big example of the extreme dangers to Israel is in Iran and its development with the help of Russia of large rockets and the nuclear bomb. I do not know for sure but I doubt Caspian oil is the answer.

The other issue for me is that I recognise Bush and his administration (but not to forget Clinton either) to be a collection of liars and not even very good ones either. After all the tricks that I saw the US and Europe pulling in Yugoslavia through the 90s I will never trust them. I can ennumerate but it would take up too much time.

The British are born appeasers of terror. The man who said that killing Salman Rushdie would be too easy for him is now an advisor in Blair's circle.

The answer: I think the opposite approach really. Not an ounce of trust in the US or in Europe and full efforts to expose them. Send Bush back to rounding up the steers!

3. BobW said:

Shalom Felix,

I won't say the situation is Camalot. It is indeed a warfare environment. After WTC 9-11, America's airlines were, de facto, nationalized. The terrorist threat is so great it is too much of a risk for the insurance underwriters. This applies to large office buildings, stadiums and all the rest. Israel's current safety isn't from Israel's security organizations but derives from the West placing priority on the flow of oil from Iran. Of course, day by day, this can change when other factors get activated. These other factors can be the spark.

America's security equation has both sides of it containing infections. On the left side of the = marks, the terrorists exist with viability because of the overpriced oil ( with some UK and US groups getting a cut). On the other side of the equation, the US cannot do much more than what's currently being done because of the funding issue for security organizations. The US Social Security program is draining away funds at geometric rates. America's expendatures on health care are doing the same thing. One reason the Indonesian affiliates of Al Qaeda can still operate is their sanctuary in Mandanao Island, Phillippines. Money is so tight now, USN units can't patrol and destroy otherwise easy targets transiting between the safe haven and Indonesia. Once the money is freed up and available for redirection to the counterterrorism programs - concurrent with the US entering the Caspian and an Arab economic contraction when pricing is adjusted against the Arabs, the terrorists will be dealt with...successfully for the account of the West.

I don't relate B&Co. to lies other than the public statements and tangents. The Administration's policy positions are clear enough. The staff appointees arrive with well-established biographies. The various business sectors affiliated with B43 allow for a clear picture.

Not sure what tricks went on in Yugoslavia. It reminded me of Iran-Contra. The Dalmatian Coast, if ever developed, is a gold mine in waiting.

Like the Yanks, the Brits also follow the money. When the UK addressed "The Emergency" in Malaysia, they were successful. Now, the oil money and related contracts are at risk. Don't forget North Sea Brent is tied into the Arab's pricing.

B43 isn't really into steer herding. His Texas background is all part of the hagiography. The grandfather, Prescott Bush, was from Connecticut at a time when the just routinely rich were moving out of places like Yorkville, Manhattan (large Irish neighborhood) and Brooklyn for Queens and New Jersey suburbs. Connecticut was for the ultra-rich. Grandfather Prescott became a US Senator. The son B41 and grandson B43 inherited a HUGE fortune from the grandfather's Union Banking Corp.

Kol tuv,
Bob

4. felix quigley said:

Bob

Thanks for detailed reply.

My understanding is that Serbs went to the death camps along with Jews in great numbers, and along with the Roma people of the Balkans.

That arose my interest.

Then there was the media aspect to the war to demolish Yugoslavia.

I have mentioned that ITN picture (the one of the barbed wire at the side of an open field) before, really an obnoxious affair, very like the France 2 and Muhammad El Dura affair.

A big lesson from Yugoslavia is the power of the media and the ruthlessness of the US and of Europe against a small country. We still have not learned the lessons from Yugoslavia.

If we did they would be of enormous benefit to the Jewish struggle.

5. Per said:

"...A big lesson from Yugoslavia is the power of the media and the ruthlessness of the US and of Europe against a small country. We still have not learned the lessons from Yugoslavia.

If we did they would be of enormous benefit to the Jewish struggle."

You're right about that, although the European evildoers perhaps play a more active role than you may be aware.

The Ottoman tide has clearly turned again, and is likely to wash all over Europe in not much more than a decade, fuelled by cheap labour serving as the modern jannisaries. The most significant moral attitude in Europeen politics today is not appeasement as we knew it, but rather a kind of religious duty to surrender. The popular resistance against this development, which even made the French turn down the European Constitution, was defeated only a few days ago by the European Foreign Ministers headed by Jack Straw. I saw this very artificial operation to move Turkey into the Union by the back door, as a revenge against rebellious Europeans led by the same courageous Austrians who stemmed the Turks in Vienna in 1653.

For further reading:

http://www.tenc.net/

6. BobW said:

Shalom Felix,

You hit on the most important neglected topic in this entire era of history, the power of the media. With benchmarks such as the "Yellow Journalism" of the Spanish-American War (1898) to the very clear classics of the Vietnam situation, we can see that Israel loses even with their idealized rules of engagement (although not ideal for the IDF troops)and much state of the art technology sometimes exceeding the equipment of the US.

I will admit to being a fool. In Sept 2001 the Jerusalem Post, once a Jewish newspaper in Israel, carried an article titled "Ordinary Israelis Invited To Join PR Effort" (by Gil Hoffman). The article also addressed diaspora Jews in the effort. IDF also welcomed comments to help. I sent some material to the IDF Spokesperson's Unit.

Although I only received a form letter from IDF, I was thrilled to read in Oct 01 a Herb Keinon article about Israeli Consul General Alon Pinkas calling the NYC bagels and lox meetings with ADL as "bagel briefings" hurting Israel.

The problem cannot be solved by Israelis in Israel. The modern sections of the GOI resemble Latvia 1930. The more common sections are classic 19th century eastern Europe with a few palm trees.

It's not a technology war any more. It's a media war.

And don't forget UN Secretary General and Austrian President Kurt Waldheim wasn't in Vienna at law school during WWII. He was in Yugoslavia "questioning" captured partisans.

Kol tuv,
Bob

7. BobW said:

Shalom Per,

Agree with you completely that the Europeans are heavily involved. The new Islamic government replacing the Shah's in Iran was a French creation.

That web site you recommended above is interesting. Just took a quick glance at the front page and the editor's intro. I don't know how it was measured but Tito's partisan forces had a medical corps predominently Jewish. Tito's deputy was Jewish.

Without trying to discredit the site or the editor, one point is a bit of exaggeration. Editor Jared Israel says Operation Phoenix during the Vietnam War had assasinations in the tens of thousands. The program was actually to try to capture or cause defections. The "official" (official public that is) says over 26,000 were killed but much of this was in firefights, ie combat operations and not involving the US sniper teams.

Although drifting a bit off topic, will look at that site again especially re WTC 9-11. I still cannot believe less than 4,000 people were lost involving over 10 million square feet of commercial office space. Something doesn't add up.

(Thought the general repelling the Turks at Vienna was Polish.)

Kol tuv,
Bob

8. A Time to Speak said:

Since Bob W.'s Post No. 3 raised the subject of Prescott Bush and his fortune -- here are some items thereon.

Prescott Bush, at one time a Senator from Connecticut, was indited by the US government in 1941 for using his Union Bank to launder money for German Nazi bigwigs. The bank was actually confiscated but returned to him in 1941.

He and his father-in-law George Herbert Walker both made fortunes out of their shares in the Auschwitz slave labor camps. (Reportedly the Dulles brothers, Secretary of State John Foster D. and CIA chief Allen D. also made big profits out of the Nazi connections.)

That is the origin of much of the Bush fortune. And a lot of it is still invested in Saudi Arabia. And in the Carlyle Group consortium, run by George W. Bush and James E. Baker III -- a consortiunm of big investors that until September 12, 2001 included the Bin-Laden family.

9. Marc Schulman said:

Does anyone have a link to Trifkovic's article?

10. Ted Belman said:

I have now linked "Trifkovic"

11. BobW said:

(Just read the complete article. Thank you, Ted.)

Presentations to large collective audiences such as President Bush's speech on terrorism must be treated as the mosiac it is and not by the tiles. Although Srdja Trifkovic has some valid points per tile, the Bush administration addressed each specific target audience to meet administration objectives and not to obtain logical clarity for the document.

We can see the same dynamics at work in Federal Reserve pronouncements. Many power blocs in Federal Reserve audiences have private treasuries with other currencies and react acordingly. We can also see the same dynamics in Supreme Court decisions on national issues. Each element of the audience addresses the decision accordingly. The labor decisions shifted US labor overseas; the criminal law decisions built the walled villa communities.

Srdja Trifkovic's basic themes are difficult to accept. His view is that the Cold War had defined sides with a rationality doctrine. He says the terrorism we address today does not have clearly defined sides with rationality missing.

For every Soviet motorized infantry division, there were sleeper cells throughout the NATO and SEATO alliances and all the rest. There were the blurry, difficult to identify part time intelligence gatherers, the business houses like Amtorg and Arcos (UK), the r Western journalists affiliated with TASS, etc, etc. The current terrorist barbarians - whether they worship Allah via his prophet or worship the pagen moon god Zin, offers enough clarity for identification. The terrorists also contain rationality elements. Even the severly depressed psychopathic suicide bomber has relatives and associates with strong survival instincts. These people are rational enough to stop suicide bombers IF they were at grave risk of death also. This is how China maintains political stability in its Muslim areas. The second world also successfully handled Muslim Albania in Europe.

No paradigm shift in the US after 11 Sep 01 ?! The Department of Homeland Affairs is a shift. The USA Patriot Act is much more than a copy of Britain's Official Secrets Act.

Ammerica's immigration policy is being changed. As soon as the required quota of Mexican labor is met, watch !!

President Bush cited Beslan in his speech because of the new Caspian oil pipelines. Russia still has a "Near Abroad" policy regarding the Czar's buffer states.

In 1968, after the Tet Offensive and Tet Counteroffensive, the Viet Cong ceased to exist. The organization was completely destroyed no less than a Hohelzollen Field Marshall meeting his fate and the Hapsburgs entering the history books. Srdja Trifkovic is wrong re his Viet Cong statement.

The degree of Iraqis' dislike of the US occupation is probably more than prior the occupation. The big variable is that the US is pumping oil from Iraqi fields with the proceeds being deposited in the US. Don't think the accounting is anything different than found at Enron.

Kol tuv,
BobW