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FAHGET ABOUT IT
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Comments
1
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Ted Belman
said:
GREAT NEWS
That's the message we have been waiting to be delivered. The Palestinians have been told in no uncertain terms they have to choose between violence and a state they can't use violence to get a state. Disengagement put the ball in the US court to get Gaza going. Now Bush has passed the hot potato to the Palestinians. Bush is distancing himself frfom failure of the Roadmap.
GREAT NEWS
Posted by: Ted Belman on October 22, 2005 11:37 AM
2
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Chen
said:
Ted. I hope you are right. It is not bad to have wishful thinking but we must ask how much of it is reality based. Anyway, it is all over the news that Abbas claims he was promised a state by the time Bush is out of office. Who is truthful and who is lying.
Ok, wishful thinking just for you Ted. They both were truthful and lying.
Posted by: Chen on October 22, 2005 01:23 PM
3
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Ken Heller
said:
Bush must stop his pretense by treating Abbas as he did. He really must admire the arch terrorist and I am surprised that he didn't offer Abbas the Lincoln bedroom as Clinton did for Arafat. It is no secret that the President actually envisions a two-state solution which is a euphemism for the destruction of Israel. So much for his proclamation of being an evangelical Christian. With Rice leading the minions of anti-semites in the Department of Hate, I mean State, and both she and Bush taking their marching orders from the Saudis and James Baker, it is so apparent that Bush is only a proponent of a limited war against terror. When Jews are murdered that's fine. When Arabs are murdered that's not good. In today's world, Jewish blood is not thought to be cheap....it's known to be free!!!
Mr. President, remember what is said in Genesis 12:3!!!!
Posted by: Ken Heller on October 22, 2005 01:42 PM
4
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BobW
said:
My take on the above Debka article coupled to some of the events of this last summer;
Israel + Yesha (less Jerusalem) will become a de facto condominium. Israel will be the sovereign over Green Line Israel and probably the West Bank. Gaza will be shared sovereignty between Egypt and Israel. Jerusalem? Not sure yet; I'm waiting.
This article must be viewed alongside Egypt patrolling Gaza's territorial sea and this article's "status of the Egyptian-Gaza border crossings,". Israel wants some presence.
We can assemble a basic map of who gets what (less Jerusalem). This article is good news for those opposed to the PA and the other armed gangs.
Kol tuv,
BobW
Posted by: BobW on October 22, 2005 01:56 PM
5
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Leonard
said:
Thanks for that posting Ted. It means that my positive interpretation of the Washington meeting was not far off the mark after all. I don't suppose it will make much difference to the prophets of doom from whom Israpundit gets enough contributions. For all the criticism of Pres. Bush - he did remove Saddam Hussein from power which is more than the Democrats would have done.
There is no need for Sharon to make any more compromises to lame duck Abbas - and Sharon is smart enough to realise this.
Posted by: Leonard on October 22, 2005 05:24 PM
6
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Ken Heller
said:
Response to Leonard:
Abbas is a lame duck, I agree but, Sharon actually is a lame shmuck.
Posted by: Ken Heller on October 22, 2005 06:22 PM
7
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Ted Belman
said:
I'm with Leonard.
I still trust Sharon. He's a fighter. He's up against the whole world and he has carved some space for Israel. The Roadmap as I have said is Israel's shield. Giving up Gaza was like feeding the aligator but in this case Sharon was betting on the aligator choking on the food.
Posted by: Ted Belman on October 22, 2005 08:04 PM
8
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Ted Belman
said:
Busd makes nice for diplomatic reasons only. He has to keep the Saudis and the EU happy and so he utters what they want to hear. Meanwhile watch Israel do its thing.
Posted by: Ted Belman on October 22, 2005 08:08 PM
9
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Joseph Alexander Norland
said:
Don't be lulled into illusions. First, what independent confirmation is there for Debka's "comfort ye" report. In my books, Debka is chronically wrong when it comes to optimism.
Had Debka's report had a single grain of truth, why was Bush's speech after the meeting so anti-Israel, lavishing endless praise on Arafat II (the one in the suit)? Does this make any sense to you, optimists?
Make no mistake: prodded by the Saudis, Bush is Israel's enemy. Israel's friends include some Conservative Republicans, many Christian Zionists and a handful of secular people around the globe. If Israel fails to increase these three categories through a diligent outreach campaign, she will find herself in a growing avalanche of trouble. Debka's optimism will hardly make up of this reality.
Posted by: Joseph Alexander Norland on October 22, 2005 10:48 PM
10
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georg von mecklenburg
said:
I agree with Mr. Norland, Mr Bush as ordered Israel's destruction, and Mr. Sharon will provide the construction demolition company for a fee.
Don't believe everything that comes out of Mr. Bush's mouth. Believe what comes out of James Bakers mouth... he is the real President of the USA.
As I stated previously, giving up land in exchange for a phony peace is simply insanity. It kind of reminds me of Czechoslovakia in 1938. Chamberlain said it and the whole world agreed. " We now have peace on our hands"
Hitler was happy, Roosevelt was happy, the French and the Italians were happy,everyone was happy...Oh I forgot... the Czechs and the Slovaks.. they were not too happy.
Posted by: georg von mecklenburg on October 23, 2005 10:45 AM
11
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Leonard
said:
Gaza is not the Sudetenland - the West Bank is. Sharon is no Chamberlain - he is not shouting peace in our time. Gaza was a strategic withdrawal that can only really benefit Israel both in the short and long term - because the Palestinians now have their State - a state of anarchy. The West Bank is the strategic depth and heart of Israel - which they can't afford to compromise on. I don't see any real sign of that.The Jewish Communities there will continue to flourish.
Posted by: Leonard on October 23, 2005 11:52 AM
12
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Ted Belman
said:
Leonard
That's the way I see it also.
Posted by: Ted Belman on October 23, 2005 05:49 PM
FAHGET ABOUT IT
Bush to Abu Mazen: The Palestinians Must Start Helping Themselves
DEBKAfile Exclusive Report
The Palestinian leader Mahmoud Abbas did not get much chance to lay down his usual list of demands and gripes in his talks at the White House with US president George W. Bush Thursday, Oct. 20. Instead, in contrast to the jovial mood of their joint news conference, Bush crushed his visitor’s hopes of a Palestinian state in the foreseeable future. “Not during my term,” the president declared firmly, according to DEBKAfile’s Exclusive sources Washington.
Abu Mazen is described as coming out of the meeting pale and shaken, with nothing to show for his Washington trip. Most of their 45-minute conversation was one-sided. Bush scarcely let Abu Mazen get a word in edgeways, cutting him short several times.
According to our sources, the US president laid down a new set of rules, unfamiliar to the Palestinians. In a word, no one will help the Palestinians if they don’t help themselves – and that goes for me, the US President, too. If you think you can disarm Hamas by letting them take part in elections, go ahead, but you are on your own. We think you are making a big mistake, but we don’t interfere. But there is a price to pay. A regime dominated by terrorists cannot expected to be treated as a democracy.
He reminded Abbas that he was the first American president to envision an independent Palestinian state and make it a strategic goal of his foreign policy, but the Palestinians had not risen to the challenge. He informed Abbas that to achieve statehood, they must meet three categorical conditions:
As matters stand now, said Bush, I see no prospect of Palestinian statehood coming into existence before I leave the White House.
The US president said he continued to support the Palestinian leader. However, his terms were the reverse of what Abbas wanted to hear.
1. Final-status negotiations must not begin yet. (This knocked on the head Abbas’ most cherished goal which is to skip the road map preliminaries and jump to the final stage.)
2. Washington is holding back the timeline for progress towards Palestinian independence. (This was a stunning setback for Abbas’ plans and his standing at home.)
3. The Middle East road map for peace will not for now be activated. It will remain on paper as long as Palestinian “armed gangs” are in charge.
Abu Mazen tried to put in a word on Palestinian demands, such as the unresolved status of the Egyptian-Gaza border crossings, a direct, sovereign Gaza-West Bank link, a halt on the Israeli defense barrier and various complaints, but Bush brushed him off, saying he is familiar with the problems and he leaves them to advisers – “Jim Wolfensohn,” or “General Ward.”
He gave some ground on the Palestinian demand for weapons and ammunition to arm their security forces, but said this would have to wait until a new military coordinator takes over from General Ward. The US president said he was still looking for a suitable candidate, a military man with the right intelligence background who worked well with the CIA. He also agreed to raise the granting of more economic concessions with Ariel Sharon.
All in all, the meeting ended without results or decisions.
Outside, when they both faced reporters, President Bush took advantage of a question put by a Palestinian correspondent to drive home his new message. Asked if a Palestinian state would come about during his term as president, he replied: My purpose is to lay the foundations for a state. Whether it comes about or not is not my problem; is up to the Palestinians.
Clearly the US president has taken several steps back from his first concept of Palestinian statehood as a top American policy goal. He is leaving it to the Palestinians to make the running. For the first time, they have been put clearly and firmly on notice that as long as they harbor terrorists, they can forget about attaining their own state.
Posted by Ted Belman at October 22, 2005 11:25 AM