1. A Time to Speak said:

Well, what would you expect from a Secretary of State who had a US oil company name a tanker after her?

Rice does not work for the US or its people. She works for the Carlyle Group. She was put in to carry out the policies of her real boss, James E. Baker III.

2. A Time to Speak said:

PS -- Do not blame Rice for this. She is doing the job for which the Carlyle Group put her in office.

Blame Ariel Sharon if he gives in to it. He works for the people of Israel -- or, at least, he collects his salary from them.

3. BobW said:

Much of the Debka report constitutes non-issues. It is only the shock effect making the news. An accord dated no later than close of business 15 November 05 will be another document in the overstuffed file folder.

The security issues were already addressed months ago. Moshe Ya'alon and Avi Dichter were discharged from government service because of their views and recommendations.

GOI's withdrawal from Gaza is coupled with a new Arab state in formation. GOI's security concerns were already addressed and absorbed into the withdrawal strategy. (Please excuse my misuse of words. "Strategy" in GOI circles was to dissolve Jewish Gaza whereas with less of the same resources and funding, Histaudrut could have been dissolved, releasing the banks (etc) from the chokehold allowing more Jews to arrive in Israel.)

Airports and ocean ports are attributes of sovereignty. The new Arab state's trade infrastructure is not breaking news.

Much like the adage "You don't get a second chance to make a first impression.", Israel's security concerns must be refocused away from Gaza; probably around the Sederot test range and Kerem Shalom.

Jews and Arabs can be placed side by side in a condominium arrangement. The placement will be in cemeteries because the Arabs have not destroyed the terrorist elements (with GOI acquiesce). The cemeteries will have no Jewish sections nor memorial monuments.

Don't expect the Gaza airport and ocean port to prosper. They are symbols only. Do expect Israel to rapidly evolve into an enclave between western Jerusalem and Tel Aviv.

The entire area is enroute for backwater status.

How wrong am I to say it is too late to listen to the opinions of Moshe Ya'alon and Avi Dichter ?

Kol tuv,
BobW

4. Charles Martel said:

Ted

Do you still hold to your conclusion from "The Greatness of George W Bush"?

Palestine, if it ever comes into existence, will be lobotomized. There is no way that America will allow another terrorist state to come into existence. When you realize the change in world affairs that Bush has undertaken, in the face of enormous pressure from the EU, all the Arab states, Russia, China, the State Department, the media, academia and big business, you see in stark relief, the greatness of George W. Bush. 9/11 changed everything.

5. Ted Belman said:

Ouch

6. Yehoshua in Brooklyn said:

Bush has tasted power- the gashmiut kind - and no doubt is threatening Sharon with a cutoff of a variety of military equipment and supplies, "unless...".
Since the Sharon government and its predecessors bought into the idea that the USA is a true friend, through thick and thin, they have now found out the truth that "people have friends, nations have interests".

I could believe that Bush is neither anti-Jewish nor anti-Israel; it's just that we are "in the way" of his (meaning the State Department's) dream of Pax Americana. For State, this inherently means, clear out the Jews. For Bush, who doesn't see warning lights until he runs past the interesection, it may be too late.

As for Par-Boiled, she is a tool of whoever can manipulate her.

I repeat, for the umpteenth time, without a Torah perspective, neither the Israeli government (Sharon or whoever) nor her non-frum friends can make a healthy difference in the Jewish future

7. felix quigley said:

This is now becoming completely intolerable and hard to stomach. Those of us on this site who warned repeatedly that the issue of Gaza was central have been proved correct. It was all along a matter of fighting on principles and you just do not EVER create an area which is Judenfrei.

Along with this is the news about Sharon's son and possible jail, so the book about this was correct.

I am sick to death of the editorial line taken by this site on this issue.

And I feel that much of the comment above needs to be dissected as well. This on Israpundit is not a teatime discussion group. The whole future is tied up here.

Firstly these machinations by Rice is a qualitative stage or step in the destruction of Israel. The website Emperors New Clothes warned that allowing Egypt into Gaza would have repercussions. Now we see that it is the hated Solana of the EU who is going to if not be in charge at least have a major foothold. How serious is that! (see www.tenc.net)

Bob, despite the good sense in your piece above I believe...This is the wrong way to look at it. To suggest this has not all been decided beforehand. The issues are happening before us. For example let me draw a parallel. Hitler certainly intended to wipe out the Jews from his writing of Mein Kamph in the 20s but it was only with the successes of early 41 in Russia that he was buoyed up to do it seriously. Then followed the Wannsee conference and the whole thing was put in operation.

Using that kind of analogy...The withdrawal from Gaza was qualitative, and now these Rice discussions are qualitative.

I am with what Leonard wrote earlier in this respect and it is difficult for every Israeli. Israel is a tiny land. Bush is whipping Israel. The EU monsters are ready for the kill.

The events in Paris and Europe are going to make these spineless European cretins more antisemitic and proislamist.

It is not just that the US is looking after the US. I am afraid that Americans are going to have to face up to the fact that Rice is anti Jewish, Bush is anti Jewish, Baker is a known antisemite. Hilary will prove the exact same.

Blair is anti Jewish but guarded. His wife is anti Jewish and open about it.

Those neocons among whom are Jews are indeed antisemitic.

Time to draw sharp lessons. No more illusions. No more wishful thinking along the lines of, withdraw from Gaza, hand part of Israel over, that will make Israel stronger.

On the reference to the Torah, this is a component but not the whole answer. Jewish children must understand and respect their proud history. But the Torah is not in my opinion a guide to action in this world of the present.

Yehoshua you are dead wrong on another point. These people ARE anti Jewish. They KNOW exactly what they are doing and they know that these things will cause a lot of Jews to be murdered in prime of life. I dispute that Rice is just a tool. Rice is not a stupid woman. Rice is anti Jewish and that is the issue. Bush is in same category, again NOT a stupid man...He knows this will cause Jewish life.

8. felix quigley said:

Overnight I have worried I have been a bit hard above on Ted. Israpundit is a great site and I learn so much from it. Still I do think that this Gaza issue is what I think of as a qualitative moment. Another is the entrance of the EU on the ground. The US and EU are out to emasculate Israel and things are going to follow hard and fast. It is sheer antisemitism in action.