1. Bill Narvey said:

Nothing more to say, except terrific article Ted.

2. Ed D said:

Ted,
Your young life is almost a mirror image to that of my own. I, too, grw up in a town of 14,000, with 4 Jewish families, that had a lot of anti-semitism in it. Most of what incurred was Jewish hatred by the older generation that seeped down to their children. Every time that I was called a Kike or Jew boy, a fist fight insued, many that I lost. As I grew older and stronger, I became able to whip almost evey bully in town. Then things began to change to more tolerence. I became a star athelete in high school and was looked up to by most (with a couple exceptions). My brother was named one of the leading men in our generation (he being smarter than I), being a very successful business men. I wore the uniform of the US in Korea and the Israeli uniform in the Yom Kippor War.

I am a conservative for the same reasons that you are and we still fight the battles, not with fists any longer but with words, becoming more ashamed and angry at the leftist Jews in this country and in Israel. My support for the Christian Right is strong for their support of Israel. In order to win this battle with the leftists, starts with education
in moral rights. It is truly amazing, whether or not one is religeous, that they have no knowledge of their own history. Equally, many Christians, do not know how their religion was altered by the Roman Emporor, Constatine. The exchange of knowlege actually gains respect for both, Christians and Jews. Let's keep up the good fight.

3. BobW said:

One problem with the discrimination to this day is that our history is buried.

Throughout the history of the US, there were Jews. We know the prominent ones such as George Gershwinn ("Rhadsody In Blue","An American In Paris"), Bernard Baruch, etc.

We, American Jewry, don't know about the other stuff - hidden because of antisemitism. We've had a Governor of Wake Island (believe this was the father, Admiral Tassig), Kitty Marcus married Wyatt Earp of cowboy fame. The former Miss Marcus of San Francisco wasn't sitting around the kitchen baking cooking with Hillary. She and Wyatt ran racing horses, had some interest in a gold mine in Nome,Alaska.....Mrs Earp, of the 19th century "Wild West", passed away as recently as 1948.

Much of American Jewish history is joining the rest of Jewish history elsewhere. It's depressing.

Ted's post reminded me about learning the name of the Supreme Being. Ted referenced the Lord's Prayer. This is where I learned the name.

"Our Father who art in heaven,
Harold be thy name".........

Kol tuv,
BobW

4. Laura said:

"The Right is also joined by persons who are not motivated by religious values but by patriotic values. The Left is joined by people motivated by socialism, Communism, anti-Americanism and anti-Semitism."
................................
This is a load of bull, that the right is patriotic and the left is anti-American and anti-Semitic. How simplistic and wrong. Both sides consist of people who are patriotic and friendly to Jews and Israel as both sides consist of people who are anti-American and anti-Semitic. Take david duke and his ilk for example.

5. Laura said:

Actually “in God we Trust” didn't exist on our currency until the 1950's. So why would it be somehow unAmerican if we were to remove the phrase now? I'm not advocating that we do remove it, because personally the phrase doesn't bother me. I just don't understand why it's so important to conservatives.

6. Ted Belman said:

Hi Laura at it again I see.

Read my words more carefully. I said that both Left and Right "were joined by people" etc. Not for a moment would I say that the democratic party as a whole is anti- American, anti-Semetic or anti-Israel. For sure there are antisemites on the right also and I don't limit these to the neo Nazis.

7. lignaeus said:

I thought His name was Wichart. 'Our Father Wichart in heaven..............

8. David Tripp said:

I don’t see eye to eye with the Christian Right (mostly on theological questions)

I agree with this statement . However I am a christian and am still a little unused to reading articles where we are all lumped together.There are many diferences betwene christian groups but on several key points most of us agree. ( Israel being one of them)
From what I have seen the left here in America and Israel is trying everything it can do that will lead to the destruction of Israel and the harming of America. I can not understand how someone can say they are patriotic and be on the left. All one has to do is look back at history and see where the left will lead us , and it holds nothing but ruin. I sit now and listen to crys from the left that we should leave Iraq tomorrow and I hear Howard Dean say that we can not win this war. These are the same crowd that forced our pullout and cut off of support of Vietnam. Look back at the bloodbath that ensued once we left. Hopefully we wont listen to the left's crys this time and will finish what we started.

9. ShyGuy said:

Laura, wrongo!

The motto "In God we trust" has been on US currency since the 1860's. In 1956, it was declared the US' national motto and, indeed, it made its first appearance on US paper currency in 1957.

10. Ted Belman said:

David

My article distinguishes between evangelicals and the liberal churches.

But since most Americans support Israel, it is correct to say that most Christrians do. In any event, I just wrote that liberal Christian Churches don't. Look at the support for divestment as a case in point.

11. David said:

The appropriateness of selective institutional divestment as means of bringing pressure to bear on the government of Israel can be debated. The mainline Protestant churches have been agonizing over the question at length, in discussion with American Jewish organizations, which urge the abandonment of the proposed policies.

http://www.adl.org/interfaith/joint_letter2.asp

However, it is a sleight of hand to say that such a position is equivalent to opposition to Israel, even to its very existence. It is an expression of opposition to the policies of the Likud Party, as it existed until the recent split. The Likud Party is not equivalent to Israel, however much its supporters in the United States have presented it as such.

Do we say that the Protestant fundamentalists were opposed to Israel because of their vociferous opposition to the evacuation of the Gaza settlements? They have the ear of politicians in Congress and the Knesset to make their opposition effective. How are the mainline Protestants to make their position effective?

Debate is the answer, not denunciation. The concerns of the liberal churches about human rights may be unusual in America, but they are not unusual in the rest of the world, so a constructive dialogue with them might well be a good start in a project of re-engaging with Europe and even the Arab world. Denouncing them as opponents of Israel or as supporters of terrorism is an intellectually easy and emotionally comfortable option, but it is profoundly shortsighted.

12. Laura said:

Once again Ted I'm sorry. I misunderstood you.

13. Laura said:

Shyguy I stand corrected, I was unaware of that. Or maybe I was confusing that with the pledge of allegiance insersion of "Under God" which came about in the 1950's I believe. Nevertheless I don't understand why the phrase is so important to conservatives. Why isn't keeping religious beliefs a private matter enough for many people?

14. ShyGuy said:

Laura, people who believe in G-d understand that we are obligated to a certain set of morals and rules in life and we can't just make everything up out of thin air as we go on in life.

The numerous common concepts and codes of conduct shared between the almost completely Christian public (though numerous denominations) that originally founded the United States is what has made it a natural home to people from around the world - yours truly included.

I'm sorry you find these concepts irrelevant.

15. kuhnkat said:

I just wanted to point out that Communists were a strong force in the US labour movement and Government during the time you mention. Does that excuse bigotry? NO. I am just trying to point out that the atheistic movements in the US have been at the basis of a lot of our problms and corrosive policies. When the bigots are not being used to support MOVEMENTS they are relatively powerless.

Just got to stay on my soapbox fighting Communism/Socialism...

16. kuhnkat said:

Laura, I believe you are not religious??

From a secular viewpoint we are all animals who have somehow come to self awareness. Some of us have come so far as to realise that cooperation can provide more creature comforts for all of us than allowing the most powerful to simply take what they want from the rest. I would suggest those who came up with this idea weren't the biggest and strongest and best fighters/hunters.

Now this has been getting played out apparently since our beginnings. Of course, the electro-chemical mess we are physiclly made up of cares nothing for cognition. Our intellect can be used to sate the animal short term, or it can be used to work with others for a long term more assured comfort.

Within these extremes intelligent people can find ways to CHEAT on the "social contract" and promote their own wants and desires over others and hide their CHEATING from others so personally, they get long term satisfaction (see POLITICIAN!!).

Now, whether it is real or not, humans have come up with Religion as a mechanism to attempt to obtain a more consistent adherence to Social Norms to prevent these types from hurting the group by their selfish behavior. If the person can be made to believe that they have an absolute reward or punishment awaiting them they have more leverage to fight the personal agenda.

Of course, like anything, this tool can be used positively and negatively. Christianity has been used as an excuse to kill and torture even though it promotes peace and forgiveness. It is not an absolute solution for secularists.

I personally am Christian. I believe in the tenets of the Book. The US was founded by people who believed in the teachings of the Book and our Constitution and Bill of Rights were written in support of these beliefs. Furthermore I believe, as did the Founders, that only people who believe can truly support and continue this country as without the teachings of the Book, people have little to prevent their selfish undermining of the principles.

I see an absolute congruence between the loss of religious faith in this country and the rise of its abuse of people in general and in detail.

The current removal of Christian symbols and history from our schools and government is part and parcel of the descent from our principles of government. They CAN NOT BE SUCCESSFULLY SEPARATED without further descent into secular animalism. I would note I see Christianity as an extension of Judaism. The Jews are the Chosen of G-D and Christianity is G-d's way of extending himself to the world.

17. Ted Belman said:

Kuhnkat

"I would note I see Christianity as an extension of Judaism. The Jews are the Chosen of G-D and Christianity is G-d's way of extending himself to the world."

What a nice way to put it.

18. RonL said:

Jews began fleeing religious persecution and economic depravation in Europe one hundred years later. They too viewed America as the “promised land” and indeed it was.

Jews have been in America for 375 years. The first communities where Sephardic. German Jews started to immigrate in the 1830s.
Eastern European Jews only started migrating around 1880.
No quarrel with that only mass immigration started in the late nineteenth century

My parents emigrated from Poland in the twenties but had to come to Canada because the doors had closed to Jewish immigration in the US.

That is simply false. The 1923 immigration act set quotas on immigration based on national origin. It no more singled out Polish Jews than Polish Catholics. on the contrary since many mnore Jews were trying to emigrate from Poland the restrictions applied to them. The fact remains, they were subject to quotas so what's your point?

North America (America) was very anti-semitic at the time since the Christian establishment felt the Jews were a threat to them and their economic order which they dominated. And so they were. They lead the labour movement in the twenties and thirties which greatly strengthened the working man in America.

The post 1870 immigrants and their children formed the core of labor unions and the Socialist and Communist movements in America. These were and remain disproportionately Jewish.Americans rightly responded to the threat posed by foriegners commung to America and helping to overthrow our government! I said they were a threat to the economic order and you charge they wanted to overthrow the government. Hardly. It was natural for Americans to be zenophobic even if most of them were foreignors themselves. I didn't for a moment question the policy. I merely said it was a fact.

Moreover, the number of immigrants by 1920 was a problem. Large numbers allow for insulation of communities, reducing the ability to assimilate and Americanize immigrants. On the contrary. Even though the Jews were "clannish" as all immigrant communities were, the Jews came roaring our of their self imposed ghettos and and transformed America and participated in the American dream.

This of course was in addition to the theologically based anti-Semitism.

It existed and still does exist, although it is much reduced among Christians. And don't forget leftists and populist anti-Semitism which blamed Jewish financiers and bankers for capitalism. I acknowledged the reduction of anti-semitism among Christians. I am not sure what you are suggesting in the next sentance. First you charge the Jews were socialists and communists which last I checked were leftists, then here you say the leftists blamed Jewish financiers and bankers for capitalism. So what are you saying?

Remember in 1939 the US turned away the ship St Louis, filled with Jewish refugees, resulting in the death of most of the Jews on board. In the thirties when Canada's Immigration Minister was asked how many Jewish refugees Canada would accept, he infamously said "None was too many".

There is a difference between refugees and immigrants. Refugees are here for limited times. Immigrants come and generally become citizens.
The US could have and should have set up refugee camps. Cuba did so. Yes it would have been more humane. But why make the distinction between refugees and immigrants. Both were fleeing persecution

I would also note that even if the West had opened its doors, the Holocaust still would have occured. Most Jews did not heed the warnings or try to leave before the Nazis invaded. There was a short window between 1939 and 1941, in which Jews in German territory could have been saved. In fact, there was a plan to send Jews to Madagascar. Sadly, this plan fell through. After the invastion of the USSR and Soviet occupied territory, the Nazis formulated the "Final Solution for the Jewish Question" at the Wanasee conference in the fall of 1941. After that time, mass exodus became impossible.all true

I went to elementary school during the war years in a town of 14,000 and can remember to this day how uncomfortable I was, having to sit through the recitation of the Lord’s Prayer and the singing of Christmas carols or to excuse myself from class. I also remember the occasional sign “no Jews and dogs“ allowed, the restrictive quotas at universities and the restrictions on Jews joining country clubs. I remember hating such restrictions and I yearned for a world of no barriers. I was not religious but felt my Jewish identity to the core.

I'm sorry, but I fing it difficult to empathise. I wasn't looking for empathy. I was merely describing where I came from in order to arrive at my present position.

1. My father had no education during World War two. He was too busy trying to survive. First the Soviets annexed Galicia and then the Nazis invaded.

2. I went ot a private Christian school and suffered these indignities. Big whoop. It helped me strengthen my Jewish identity and respect the Christian identity of America. I can empathize.

As a result of all this discrimination and their own values, Jews became prominent in the civil rights movement in the fifties and sixties. In this way, the Jews again made America better for themselves and for everyone else. Quotas were dropped, restrictions were removed and Jews excelled in all walks of life. Truly the promised land. In time, the Christians made room for them as partners and hence the constant reference to America being founded on Judeo-Christian values, the strong support of Israel among the American people and the disproportionate representation of Jews in the Government. Along with this greater acceptance came assimilation and much intermarriage.

Much of this was good. However the methodology had horrible consiquences. To wit

The civil rights movement brought in its wake the liberation of women, the liberation of gays and homosexuals, multiculturalism, relativism and secularism.

You also forgot anti-White quotes, which apply to Jews.

With the exception of "liberation" of women, these were all unmitigated disasters for America and Jews.agreed

The Right is also joined by persons who are not motivated by religious values but by patriotic values. The Left is joined by people motivated by socialism, Communism, anti-Americanism and anti-Semitism.

There are still anti-Semites on the right. I bump into many of them.

BTW you forgot anti-Western hatred, reflexive disestablishmentarianism, and Third Worldism.

This is a battle that the Right comes to with girded loins. The Left, on the other hand, is defenseless.

Hardly. The US has not restricted Muslim immigration. We have not arrested the leadership of CAIR, the AADL, 80% of Mosques and other Islamist groups. We have not expelled all Muslim non-citizens. We have not forced the American Muslim community to act like Americans and denounce and rat on Islamists. I fully agree, we are too tolerant.

Heck the Bush Administration and and business groups are pushing through H1-B visa extentions, which will increase the number of foreigners, including Muslims, commiung to America to displace American engineers. I have many complaints with Bush and take issue with his giving Muslims a pass and referring to to Islam as the religion of peace. And yes he is on the right. It is the American Right I support, not the State Department.

Having accepted much of liberalism since the 1960's, the American Right is largely defenseless.

Not as much as the Left. But they are fighting back better then the Left.

19. Martin Man said:

Looks like Ted has taken on the whole world. So many critics, and long-winded ones at that! Ted is basically correct in what he wrote. Yes, the details could have been improved, and generalizations will always bring out the nit-pickers.

I think the main point is, or should be, that America has come to grips with its differences and prejudices, pretty well, not always easily or perfectly, I'll grant, but on the whole, we are a civil society and no one is truly oppressed. This was because of the incredible, if not divinely inspired, wisdom of our founding fathers and the documents they forged. [Laura, please take note:} "We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness." This is the basis of American society, which is the envy of the world. If we do not acknowledge a creator, who sets absolute standards, then everything we hold dear is subject to change, perversion, and ultimate destruction. Jews and Christians who still hold true to the Torah/Bible are united in purpose to preserve these principles wherever they are threatened. Today, American and the free world, are threatened from without by Islamo-fascism, which would seek to impose the law of its god, over the law of the G_d of the Bible. We are also threatened from within by liberals of all types, who also deny the authority of the Judeo-Christian G_d, upon whose Word our country was founded. If you do not accept the theocratic basis of the principles set forth by our founding fathers, you are not a true American. You are a subversive, a saboteur, a destroyer of our society. Which are you?

20. ShyGuy said:

Ouch!

21. Martin Man said:

ShyGuy: Your one word says so much...but I'm not sure exactly what. Care to elaborate, agree or disagree?

22. ShyGuy said:

Martin, if you read my earlier reply to Laura, I'm sure you would have known I agree - for the most part.

However, I do disagree with your ending words, "you are not a true American, you are a subversive, a saboteur, a destroyer of our society", as a blanket statement.

23. Martin Man said:

ShyGuy,

I went back and re-read what you wrote to Laura. I do see that you are in essential agreement, although you were much more gentle with Laura than I might have been. I have little patience left anymore for people don't understand that for a society (especially a successful one) to work, you must have certain unshakable standards which apply to everyone, without exception. If you don't have absolute standards, everything is up for grabs. The rules are then made by who ever has the most power. If they don't happen to like Jews...too bad. Here in the U.S., the liberals have been able to erode the absolute standards to the point where if you are a baby in the womb, you can be (cruely) murdered, legally, to suit someone's whim. In the Netherlands, they are killing the old now, too. I hear that many old people in Holland are terrified to go into the hospital because they fear that they may be euthanized. It happens. So you see, if there are no absolute standards, ANYTHING GOES. Now, where do absolute standards come from? By definition, from G_d. So, if someone doesn't believe in God and live accordingly, or if they don't at least swear aliegence to the absolute values said to come from G_d, then they are, logically, anti-society. There are nice names for those people, but I just call them what they are: subversives, saboteurs, and destroyers. It comes down to this, if you are an enemy of G_d, you are an enemy of mankind.