1. eotw said:

Bio-diesel.

2. BobW said:

Rusty fish hooks are germ free after they are thrown into a blast furnace. Anything risk free means underwriters can starve.

Arab reconciliation is like trying to compress a liquid. In lieu of reading the PAIR Initiative, a better idea is to relax with some overpriced coffee at Starbucks and consider why Saigon is no longer a label on maps.

The Bush administration declared support with plans for a new Arab state called Palestine to occupy territory from the West Bank to Gaza. It might be a condominium and the territorial sea might remain Israeli but Israel will be split.

My only idea is to copy what worked. Rapidly field a rudimentary national Jewish organization to challenge the real enemy and the real problem.

The Arab oil barons are slowly being confronted. I have the pipeline maps for Caspian northern tier oil. The terrorists are rapidly being confronted. Ture, US domestic passports are involved, linked into transponders on all cars and telephones but the threat is being met.

The loss of a Jewish national voice since President Truman de facto recognized Israel can be traced to America's de facto Yevsektzia. They are well established in their safe suburbs and further the causes of the barbarians.

The names and organizations are known. Middle America just does not understand the fissure. They identify Jews with Foxman's ADL,Yoffie's political club and Ruth Messinger's American Jewish World Service.

This is the extent of my only one idea.

Kol tuv,
BobW

3. BraverMan said:

BoBW, would you please translate your last posting.

4. BobW said:

Shalom BraverMan,

Glance again at Ted's post above.

A "totally risk free solution" with conditions is mentioned.

Engaging the rulers of the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia is mentioned.

The Council of Presidents of Major American Jewish Organizations supports a new Arab state. Sometimes, if not too frequently, I abbreviate much because background is not needed to see where the problems are coming from.

All readers here, I'm sure, are aware that the United States Government announced support for a new Arab state with contiguity.

Kol tuv
and
Merry Christmas
or
Happy Hanukah
BobW

5. kuhnkat said:

BobW,

First I would like to say that I respect your posts. Unfortunately I have to agree with Braverman. Many times you leave out information that is apparently common knowledge to you, and possibly your friends, that we may know and don't connect to your statements or are abysmally ignorant of.

I think you said to forget the idea of Arab reconciliation.

The US can't be depended on (cut and run from Vietnam).

The Road Map splits Israel in half.

Start up a home grown militia to fight the so-called Palestinians outside the Israeli official gubmint.

Oil availability is being dealt with through Caspian sea alternatives so we don't have to bend over for the Saudi and associates.

The international islamofascists are being beaten.

The US jewry are comfortable and complacent are not willing to speak out for Israel.

????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????

6. Salomon Benzimra said:

The PAIR Peace Plan deserves consideration. For years we have been fed the "necessity" of a "Palestinian state", with "land for peace", the splitting of Jerusalem and possibly the "right of return". It is not because these flawed ideas have been running for too long that we cannot reverse this suicidal course.

The PAIR Plan offers a new course. It is certainly not any more radical than the "Palestinian state" was when it first appeared. What is needed is to finally change the defeatist attitude of the Government of Israel, along with the many Jews who have been basking in the illusions of a fleeting peace. Many points in the PAIR Plan may be impractical, but the principle is simple: revert to TRUTH and jettison all the diplomatic ambiguities founded on made-up concoctions and sheer falsehoods that have been responsible for thousands of deaths, with no peace in sight.

Let a serious debate begin!

7. BobW said:

Shalom Braverman,

Less paragraph 1, all the points you make above are mirror images of my ramblings (less "militia" - I'm referring to a legal POLITICAL orgaization).

Re paragraph 1, I'll try to add more to my posts or not comment.

Kol tuv,
BobW

8. BobW said:

Shalom Salomon,

First, I'm on your side.

Now, how is any additude of GOI going to be changed? Moshe Feiglin and his superb efforts didn't work - as just one example. I'm completely open to hearing mechanical suggestions.

There is no =necessity= for a new Arab state but the US Government has already taken actions for this new state to come into being. One of these actions is the several public official announcements from the USG. Another action is funding development projects for the new "Palestine". Another USG action is to have the public support of what constitutes America's organized Jewry for a new Arab state.

I personally do not believe that many American Jews support Israel. This is just a personal opinion from my experience.

Kol tuv,
BobW

9. BobW said:

My post # 7 should be addressed to Kuhnkat.

Apologies.

Kol tuv,
BobW

10. Salomon Benzimra said:

Hello BobW,

I am glad you are “on my side”!;-)
Nobody said this new Plan will be easy to implement. Two points:

1.The U.S., the EU, the UN and the whole world are now talking of a Palestinian state. The PAIR Plan does not go against this view. The question is “where”? The PAIR Plan talks about Saudi Arabia but, personally, I think this is a bit far-fetched: I would rather – now that Israel decided to definitely abandon Gaza – view the new “Palestinian State” contiguous to Gaza ("contiguity" being a pre-requisite, according to Condoleezza Rice!) in a portion of Sinai, maybe 40-50% of the peninsula. After all, Saudi Arabia has never engaged Israel directly in military aggression, whereas Egypt did it three times. The Camp David I Accords with Egypt are not cast in stone. Moreover, the U.S. could exert a greater pressure on Egypt ($2B in annual financial aid) than on Saudi Arabia.

2.This major reversal will surely be hard to implement. But think of it this way. If anyone had spoken of a “Palestinian Arab state” thirty years ago, he would have had all doors slammed on his face. And yet, it took just a few decades to mount the greatest hoax in Arab tale spinning, in spite of reality, to convince the whole world of these falsehoods. Why wouldn’t it be at least a bit easier to restore the truth?

Before we start dealing with the mechanics of it, I think it would be essential to find out how much support this type of Plan can garner – among Israelis, Jews and Western governments.

Cheers!

11. Dan Barkye said:

Hi, all! I'm new here, but mighty glad I found you. Better late than never, right? To the issue at hand. A Pal state in Saudia is possible, but stands very few chances, IMHO. Let me make a few pros and cons, though very rough, not developed ideas at this stage. Such states had been raised by interested parties throughout history, starting w Rome in its Empire, maybe even earlier, and ending w Birobidzhan, the Jewish Autonomous Region in USSR/Russia (there's a movie about it, "L'Chayim, Comrade Stalin!", released in 2003). This can be implemented in two forms: a) In own country (like said Birobidzhan, by Stalin's decree, and so having no oponent in sight), or, b) In a foreign country by an outside more powerful entity (colonies, autonomous settlements, vassal states). The problem w the Saudi location is that not pt a) nor b) can be applied there. The only solution would be to play the oil depletion issue in the Saudi ears, and to entice them to accept a very educated society, the Pals, in their midst, and so to enable them to make a rapid, and good use, of their oil earned money for the bleak future w/o it, which is already in sight. What I mean by this, is to try to convince them to assimilate the Pals for their talents and skills, which are known throughout the region, and so to enable them to be better off faster. On the Pal side, as Hamas is the emergent power there, it will meet the Wahabistic tendencies in Saudia, so, from a religious point of view, a very important one, the suggestion will be met. There are other possibly interesting pro points here that come to mind, like an eventual al-Qaeda support (to conquer the kingdom by proxy, if not by themselves), or the power/money hunger of the Pals. Again, this is only a suggestion, but worth a second thought.

12. kuhnkat said:

Dan Barkye said

" What I mean by this, is to try to convince them to assimilate the Pals for their talents and skills, which are known throughout the region, and so to enable them to be better off faster."

Uhh, obviously I missed something somewhere. What talent and skills are the so-called Palestinians known for??? For chrissake, a lot of them still live in REFUGEE CAMPS!!! Why haven't these talents and skills lifted them out of poverty??? They have the (smirk) UN helping them!!! Seriously, there is a LOT of aid going into that area and look what they DON'T HAVE!!! Most of them only have MUSLIM Propaganda for schooling.

13. Dan Barkye said:

I'm sure you missed, kuhnkat, b/c as immigrants, they are the educated lot in the Gulf ministates. It may be that now, w all the gov sponsored aid to the population in the area, the situation changed, but the Pals still do have something to sell to them. When the Saudi oil reserves dry, then there will be a great need for skilled people to reshuffle the infrastructure and build from the scratch, almost, an industrial base. In any case, this could be a big argument in relocating them there, and this was the subject of the article.