1. Per said:

First time this bit of "news" leaked to the public was 18 February 1995 when the NATO Secretary General, Willi Claes, said the following:
“Muslim fundamentalism is at least as dangerous as communism once was. Please do
not underestimate this risk ... at the conclusion of this age it is a serious threat,
because it represents terrorism, religious fanaticism and exploitation of social and
economic justice.” (Willi Claes, Secretary General of NATO Television interview
reported by Inter Press Service, 18 February 1995).

This statement cost him his job. The politically correct European members of NATO, unopposed by the US, smeared him with a corruption charge of the same kind you can put on any political leader.

The reasons for this dhimmi behaviour are obvious, and well desribed above. But it is a shame that we are still suffering under the threats and fear of Arab retaliation.

2. John Meekins said:

Interesting stuff, and the kind of stuff the American and other governments around the globe need to not just be aware of but the reasons why they actually need to develop strategies to oppose the radical ideologies of Muslim radicals.
The Bush administration, particularly, needs to link its activities around the world including in Iraq to this broader war. And, it is a war, a world-wide war.

3. Ted Belman said:

Bill

You entirely missed the point. The Pentagon study is about to concl;ude that "Islam is a Religion of War". The the West must identify Islam, the religion, as the enemy.

But in you remarks you continue to identify "radical Islam" as the enemy. That suggests two kinds of Islam. The Pentagopn Study suggests otherwise. Islam is not being hijacked by radicals. Islam itself is radical and must be fought.

4. Ted Belman said:

In fact the article rep[orting on the study above linked to says

"So far the conclusions of intelligence analysts assigned to the project, who include both private contractors and career military officials, contradict the commonly held notion that Islam is a peaceful religion hijacked or distorted by terrorists. They've found that the terrorists for the most part are following a war-fighting doctrine articulated through Muhammad in the Quran, elaborated on in the hadiths, codified in Islamic or sharia law, and reinforced by recent interpretations or fatwahs.

"Islam is an ideological engine of war (Jihad)," concludes the sensitive Pentagon briefing paper. And "no one is looking for its off switch."

Why? One major reason, the briefing states, is government-wide "indecision [over] whether Islam is radical or being radicalized."
In fact the whole study addresses that question and conmcludes that Islam itself is radical and an "engine for war".

The "off switch" referred to in the article is really the means to kill Islam. No one is looking for that.

5. ajm said:

Actually, it is almost a bit too bad that that study (from the CIFA) comes out through the Pentagon, for it is not really a military matter. I mean, of course, it is utterly important to grasp that the enemy is Islam, the religion, the original, and not “terrorism” or some radicalized form of Islam. But that doesn’t help armed forces. Troops still have to fight armed enemies forces, not mosques or korans, or unarmed imams. If the enemy is a religion, the strategy ought to be juridical, social, and political, and not military. That is, the West must ban Islam by law.

Please suffer that I repeat that: The West must ban Islam by law.

6. Bill Narvey said:

Ted,

I think you entirely missed my point. It does not matter whether Islam is a religion of war or Islamic radicals have perverted the meaning of Islam to inspire their war as a holy Jihad.

The danger is the same and the West has failed to respond to it in any adequate unified way so as to defeat the danger.

If Islam is itself a religion of war, one still needs to defeat its adherents who make that war, from the ones who kill to all those Muslim supporters of the Islamic radicals.

A religion of war without followers that the West has defeated, killed and chased away is no further threat to the West and won't be if the West ensures that Islam, the religion of War becomes effectively a religion of peace because the war minded Jihadist followers don't dare show their faces and those Muslims who do not want to be involved in the war like nature of Islam, practice their religion in peace.

The debate will doubtless continue to rage over whether Islam is really a religion of peace or war, but the West needs to rise up against those Muslims who rightly or wrongly are inspired by Islam to make war on the West.

7. Ted Belman said:

Bush has lost support at home for the Patriot Act and for the War on Iraq or on the war on terror. The main reason is that he didn't want to go to war against Islam just as the US went to war against Communism. If you don't identify the enemy and then vilify it how can you muster support.

You seem to be in favour of fighting the radicals and leaving the religion alone. This creates all kinds of problems in the homefront. How to legislate against the radicals and leave the religion alone. I am afraid that you must make war on Islam. Britain and the US tries to walk this line and ends up making room for the radicals.

8. Ted Belman said:

Bill

You say "It does not matter whether Islam is a religion of war or Islamic radicals have perverted the meaning of Islam to inspire their war as a holy Jihad." But that is exactly the point of the Study. The Pentagon says it does matter and I agree.

9. Allah's Servant said:

Islam has been there since the time of ADAM and will remain till and after the Day of Judgement.It is just because of you infidels who control most of the MEDIA Islam is being maligned.It is indeed a fact that JEWS and CHRISTIANS are the foremost enemy of ISLAM not a new enemy but since thousands of years.ALLAH sends prophets to guide humans but you people see GOD in Prophets and go on the wrong path.JESUS(PBUH) IS A PROPHET OF ISLAM.MOSES(PBUH) IS A PROPHET OF ISLAM JUST AS THE LAST PROPHET ON EARTH MUHAMMAD(PBUH) WAS.ADAM FOLLOWED ISLAM,JESUS FOLLOWED ISLAM,MOSES FOLLOWED ISLAM AND ALL THE REMAINING OF 1,25,000 PROPHETS FOLLOWED ISLAM.IT IS INDEED SORRY THAT THE FOLLOWERS OF ISLAM DURING THE PERIODS OF THEIR RESPECTIVE PROPHET WENT ASTRAY AFTER THE PROPHETS LEFT THE EARTH.JEWS AND CHRISTIANS ARE ALSO THE SAME.BUT THEY ARE LOST IN ACCUMULATING WORLDLY PLEASURES THAT THEY DO NOT SEE ANYTHING.THEY ARE BLINDED AND INDEED ALLAH HAS CURSED THEM THAT THEY DO NOT SEE THE TRUTH.

10. ShyGuy said:

Hey "Allah's Servant Said", or "ASS" for short:

We'll live with our curses. Enjoy your blessings! You deserve them.

11. ajm said:

“The foremost enemy of allah” sure is commonsense.

We should ban Islam, but not because it is a religion of war – a religion can claim to have a right to wage war on “bad people” to “save the world” or something. Who can question that?

We should ban Islam because it actually is not a religion, but a mere perversion, a crime, an offense. We have to reveal that, to make Islam’s trial. Among Muslims. To ban Islam outside the Islamic world would help that process along. And it would be a good reason for banning it, without hate, without curses. Just commonsense.
-

12. Gene said:

Man Saudi Arabia must be full of Christians... with all the accumulation of worldly pleasures...

13. kuhnkat said:

Allah's Servant's Apologist said:

"Islam has been there since the time of ADAM and will remain till and after the Day of Judgement."

HAHAHAHAHAHAHA

Apparently you didn't get the memo that Mohammed came after Jesus by just a few humdred years!!! You even claim Jesus as a prophet. So, exactly how could Islam have been there since Adam. Your ancestor broke from Judaism after Abraham!!!

Allah's Servant's Apologist also said:

"It is indeed a fact that JEWS and CHRISTIANS are the foremost enemy of ISLAM not a new enemy but since thousands of years."

Actually a little less than 2000 years, but yes, we are. Funny how having your people attacked murdered, raped, pillaged, conquered, tortured, burned... can mess up your day and give you a bad atitude toward a religion that will not only do these things to you, but, continually lie about it also!!!

Now, if y'all had started your own fresh religion instead of cribbing off of previous religions you might have gotten somewhere instead of making yourselves pariahs in the world.

Allah's Servant's Apologist then said:

"THEY ARE BLINDED AND INDEED ALLAH HAS CURSED THEM THAT THEY DO NOT SEE THE TRUTH"

DUDE, have you checked the Muslim world lately?? People are starving, there have been earthqakes killing tens of thousands, a tsunami killed tens of thousands, droughts, you've had some setbacks in Afghanistan, Iraq, Pakistan, Thaisland, Australia, Phillipines, Libya.

The US has had a few hurricanes and our losses in the wars with Muslims and other issues and we have lost fewer people than you have lost in one earthquake!!!!

The Jews have moved back into the neighborhood, kicked your but in more than 4 wars and they are STILL THERE IN SPITE OF THE WHOLE ARAB WORLD TRYING TO ERADICATE THEM!!!!

Dude, you're getting your butts kicked and can't even see it.

Dude, you need to think about who has REALLY been cursed by Allah.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

14. No non-sense from USA said:

IS ISLAM A RELIGION OF WAR YOU TELL ME?

For 700+ years Muslims ruled the Middle East and the most of Eastern Europre, boundaries of its Empire covered almost the entire contemporary world. Under Muslim empire Jews, Christians lived peacefully. And look what happened just in a few years after the Muslim rule ended over this world - I'm sure no one - who read this article has ever forgotten the slogan:

"NEVER AGAIN"

were those who slaughtered the Jews in Europe Muslims? you tell me?

Have you forgotten the time when Caliph Omar-bin-khattab invited Jews back to Jerusalem when they were never even allowed to enter? You should go back to the History books if you're sincere enough.

These two incidents are good enough for a person with wisdom and justice to say what Islam and Muslims stand for!

15. Christ - the straight Talker said:

How many times should this be repeated?

The whole world knows .... sans Israel, the story about Palestine occupation, Geo-politics has nothing to do with religion. Let us not twist and turn the truth of this conflict.

Let us leave religion of Islam alone!!!!

16. ShyGuy said:

A reply to "All Full Of Nonsense", 2 posts above:

IS ISLAM A RELIGION OF WAR YOU TELL ME?

You make it sound like the Muslim invasion of Mesapotamia, the Middle East, Africa, Europe and Asia were the greatest thing since toast.

To quote Andalusian Myth, Eurabian Reality:

Iberia (Spain) was conquered in 710-716 AD by Arab tribes originating from northern, central and southern Arabia. Massive Berber and Arab immigration, and the colonization of the Iberian peninsula, followed the conquest. Most churches were converted into mosques. Although the conquest had been planned and conducted jointly with a strong faction of royal Iberian Christian dissidents, including a bishop, it proceeded as a classical jihad with massive pillages, enslavement, deportations and killings.

Toledo, which had first submitted to the Arabs in 711 or 712, revolted in 713. The town was punished by pillage and all the notables had their throats cut. In 730, the Cerdagne (in Septimania, near Barcelona) was ravaged and a bishop burned alive. In the regions under stable Islamic control, Jews and Christians were tolerated as dhimmis - like elsewhere in other Islamic lands - and could not build new churches or synagogues nor restore the old ones. Segregated in special quarters, they had to wear discriminatory clothing. Subjected to heavy taxes, the Christian peasantry formed a servile class attached to the Arab domains; many abandoned their land and fled to the towns. Harsh reprisals with mutilations and crucifixions* would sanction the Mozarab (Christian dhimmis) calls for help from the Christian kings. Moreover, if one dhimmi harmed a Muslim, the whole community would lose its status of protection, leaving it open to pillage, enslavement and arbitrary killing.

By the end of the eighth century, the rulers of North Africa and of Andalusia had introduced Malikism, one of the most rigorous schools of Islamic jurisprudence, and subsequently repressed the other Muslim schools of law. Three quarters of a century ago, at a time when political correctness was not dominating historical publication and discourse, Evariste Lévi-Provençal, the pre-eminent scholar of Andalusia, wrote: "The Muslim Andalusian state thus appears from its earliest origins as the defender and champion of a jealous orthodoxy, more and more ossified in a blind respect for a rigid doctrine, suspecting and condemning in advance the least effort of rational speculation."

The humiliating status imposed on the dhimmis and the confiscation of their land provoked many revolts, punished by massacres, as in Toledo (761, 784-86, 797). After another Toledan revolt in 806, seven hundred inhabitants were executed. Insurrections erupted in Saragossa from 781 to 881, Cordova (805), Merida (805-813, 828 and the following year, and later in 868), and yet again in Toledo (811-819); the insurgents were crucified, as prescribed in Qur’an 5:33*.

The revolt in Cordova of 818 was crushed by three days of massacres and pillage, with 300 notables crucified and 20 000 families expelled. Feuding was endemic in the Andalusian cities between the different sectors of the population: Arab and Berber colonizers, Iberian Muslim converts (Muwalladun) and Christian dhimmis (Mozarabs). There were rarely periods of peace in the Amirate of Cordova (756-912), nor later.

Al-Andalus represented the land of jihad par excellence. Every year, sometimes twice a year, raiding expeditions were sent to ravage the Christian Spanish kingdoms to the north, the Basque regions, or France and the Rhone valley, bringing back booty and slaves. Andalusian corsairs attacked and invaded along the Sicilian and Italian coasts, even as far as the Aegean Islands, looting and burning as they went. Thousands of people were deported to slavery in Andalusia, where the caliph kept a militia of tens of thousand of Christian slaves brought from all parts of Christian Europe (the Saqaliba), and a harem filled with captured Christian women. Society was sharply divided along ethnic and religious lines, with the Arab tribes at the top of the hierarchy, followed by the Berbers who were never recognized as equals, despite their Islamization; lower in the scale came the mullawadun converts and, at the very bottom, the dhimmi Christians and Jews.

The Andalusian Maliki jurist Ibn Abdun (d. 1134) offered these telling legal opinions regarding Jews and Christians in Seville around 1100 C.E.: "No…Jew or Christian may be allowed to wear the dress of an aristocrat, nor of a jurist, nor of a wealthy individual; on the contrary they must be detested and avoided. It is forbidden to [greet] them with the [expression], ‘Peace be upon you’. In effect, ‘Satan has gained possession of them, and caused them to forget God’s warning. They are the confederates of Satan’s party; Satan’s confederates will surely be the losers!’ (Qur’an 58:19 [modern Dawood translation]). A distinctive sign must be imposed upon them in order that they may be recognized and this will be for them a form of disgrace."

Ibn Abdun also forbade the selling of scientific books to dhimmis, under the pretext that they translated them and attributed them to their co-religionists and bishops. In fact, plagiarism is difficult to prove since whole Jewish and Christian libraries were looted and destroyed. Another prominent Andalusian jurist, Ibn Hazm of Cordoba (d. 1064), wrote that Allah has established the infidels’ ownership of their property merely to provide booty for Muslims.

In Granada, the Jewish viziers Samuel Ibn Naghrela and his son Joseph, who protected the Jewish community, were both assassinated between 1056 to 1066, followed by the annihilation of the Jewish population by the local Muslims. It is estimated that up to five thousand Jews perished in the pogrom by Muslims that accompanied the 1066 assassination. This figure equals or exceeds the number of Jews reportedly killed by the Crusaders during their pillage of the Rhineland, some thirty years later, at the outset of the First Crusade.

The Granada pogrom was likely to have been incited, in part, by the bitter anti-Jewish ode of Abu Ishaq, a well known Muslim jurist and poet of the times, who wrote: "Put them back where they belong and reduce them to the lowest of the low..turn your eyes to other [Muslim] countries and you will find the Jews there are outcast dogs...Do not consider it a breach of faith to kill them...They have violated our covenant with them so how can you be held guilty against the violators?"

The Muslim Berber Almohads in Spain and North Africa (1130-1232) wreaked enormous destruction on both the Jewish and Christian populations. This devastation- massacre, captivity, and forced conversion- was described by the Jewish chronicler Abraham Ibn Daud, and the poet Abraham Ibn Ezra. Suspicious of the sincerity of the Jewish converts to Islam, Muslim “inquisitors” (i.e., antedating their Christian Spanish counterparts by three centuries) removed the children from such families, placing them in the care of Muslim educators. Maimonides, the renowned philosopher and physician, experienced the Almohad persecutions, and had to flee Cordoba with his entire family in 1148, temporarily residing in Fez — disguised as a Muslim — before finding asylum in Fatimid Egypt.

Indeed, although Maimonides is frequently referred to as a paragon of Jewish achievement facilitated by the enlightened rule of Andalusia, his own words debunk this utopian view of the Islamic treatment of Jews: "..the Arabs have persecuted us severely, and passed baneful and discriminatory legislation against us...Never did a nation molest, degrade, debase, and hate us as much as they.."

A valid summary assessment of interfaith relationships in Muslim Spain, and the contemporary currents responsible for obfuscating that history, can be found in Richard Fletcher's engaging Moorish Spain. Mr. Fletcher offers these sobering, unassailable observations:

"The witness of those who lived through the horrors of the Berber conquest, of the Andalusian fitnah in the early eleventh century, of the Almoravid invasion- to mention only a few disruptive episodes- must give it [i.e., the roseate view of Muslim Spain] the lie. The simple and verifiable historical truth is that Moorish Spain was more often a land of turmoil than it was of tranquility...Tolerance? Ask the Jews of Granada who were massacred in 1066, or the Christians who were deported by the Almoravids to Morocco in 1126 (like the Moriscos five centuries later)…In the second half of the twentieth century a new agent of obfuscation makes its appearance: the guilt of the liberal conscience, which sees the evils of colonialism- assumed rather than demonstrated-foreshadowed in the Christian conquest of al-Andalus and the persecution of the Moriscos (but not, oddly, in the Moorish conquest and colonization). Stir the mix well together and issue it free to credulous academics and media persons throughout the western world. Then pour it generously over the truth…in the cultural conditions that prevail in the west today the past has to be marketed, and to be successfully marketed it has to be attractively packaged. Medieval Spain in a state of nature lacks wide appeal. Self-indulgent fantasies of glamour...do wonders for sharpening up its image. But Moorish Spain was not a tolerant and enlightened society even in its most cultivated epoch."

The socio-political history of Andalusia was characterized by a particularly oppressive dhimmitude that is completely incompatible with modern notions of equality between individuals, regardless of religious faith. At the dawn of the 21st century, we must insist that Muslims in the West adopt post-Enlightenment societal standards of equality, not "tolerance," abandoning forever their hagiography of the brutal, discriminatory standards practiced by the classical Maliki jurists of "enlightened" Andalusia.

Folks, read it all. We have been hoodwinked for too many years thinking that the Crusades was the starting point of hostility between Islam and the West. It was Islam's brutal invasion and conquest and subsequent subjugation of much of Europe (Paris and Vienna almost fell to Islam) that triggered the Crusades - not the other way around.

Barbarians are still at the gates. Push them back to their sand dunes and salt flats.

17. rocky said:

to #14 and #15 straight Talker and no-nonsense

I am kind of tired of repeating that the persecution and ethnic cleansing of Jews is at the very core and foundation of Islam.

The History of Islam (it is there for everyone to read and get informed), tells us that the first victims of Mohamed's first aggressive military campaigns were the peaceful Jews of Yathrib (now Madinah). Many were murdered without provocation, others enslaved or expelled from their towns.
If Caliph Omar-bin-Khattab (like other rulers in history) had a positive gesture towards Jews, he did so out of his own generosity or convenience, for the Koran and Hadith give enough excuses to Moslems to be nasty towards jews.

But of course there seem to be a never-ending string of naive dreamers who overlook all red flags and want desperately to believe that islam is so good.

18. Bill Narvey said:

Every Western leader at every opportunity makes the point of saying that Islam is a religion of peace, tolerance, harmony and goodwill, that its war against Muslim radicals is not a new crusade and that the problem is only with a relative few radical Islamists who do not represent the true meaning of Islam.

There have been countless reports starting many years before 9/11 that would lead one to conclude that Muslims generally are extrememly sensitive and easily angered over any criticism, no matter how slight of Muslims or Islam.

It seems pretty clear that Bush and other Western leaders are aware of this and therefor have gone far out of their way to avoid ruffling extremely sensitive Muslim feathers for fear that by so doing, the so called relative few Muslim radicals would be joined in droves by a great many more angry Muslims and that would only increase the danger that radical Islam poses to the West.

Now it appears the Pentagon in a new study has concluded that it is not that radical Muslims have hijacked Islam, but rather it is Islam itself that is radical and it is an ideological war engine. Mention is that the West cannot find or is that that they are refusing to look for the "off switch"

This Pentagon report gives rise to a number of questions.

Will the Bush administration and the rest of the West accept the Pentagon report, assuming its findings and conclusions are incontrovertible and declare war against Islam itself?

Will the Pentagon report be the thing that finally opens the eyes of the West to the threat Islam poses to the West?

Will the Pentagon report cause the West to turn from indifference and disagreements over the extent of the threat of Islamic radicalism or Islam itself to agreement in recognizing the true nature and extent of the threat?

Will a declaration of war against Islam itself be the thing that unites the West in common cause and unwavering resolve to act together and take all measures at the West's disposal to combat Islam until all Islamic radicals or Islam are destroyed as the case may be?

If war is declared against all of Islam, does that mean that every Muslim in the world immediately is considered an enemy and the West will treat every Muslim as such? Will that include even those relative few Muslim who have advocated for Islam to be reformed into the kind of peaceful religion the West insists on describing Islam as or will the West declare those Muslims "good Muslims" exempt from attack.

If the war is to be against Islam itself and the West were to succeed in destroying Islam, there would be no Islam left for the "good Muslims" to reform, so what is to become of them?

It is doubtful that the Pentagon report will have such an impact.

From all the evidence thus far, the West will turn a blind eye to the Pentagon report because its conclusions are just too much for the West to wrap their minds around for those conclusions would necessarily call for far more to be done in this war of the West against Islam than the West has the stomach for.

19. KEITH DAWID said:

LET THE MASHIACH BEN-DAWID ARRIVE SOON AND CRUSH THE PRIDE OF ISHMAEL AND ESAU!

20. MohammedToKEITH DAWID said:

Who is adopting a violent view of religion and orders of God; we muslims who believe in Moses (peace be upon him) and his teachings including the fact that God is the most merciful who wants guidance for all his creatures who someone who believes God will send a messanger to CRUSH his creatures instead of duiding them to the right path. Hope you take time to think about it!

21. ShyGuy said:

Hmmmmmmmmmmmmm............ Keith mentions crushing "pride" and Mohammed gets sidetracked mentioning violence.

And, of course, Mohammed was not a violent man. Of course.

22. No_non-Sense said:

I'm looking for a sincere, genuine, un-biased & just answer from the author of this article to my question. I wouldn't worry about the response of other Craps!

And look what happened just in a few years after the Muslim rule ended over this world - I'm sure no one - who read this article has ever forgotten the slogan:

"NEVER AGAIN"

were those who slaughtered the Jews in Europe Muslims? you tell me?

23. No_non_sense said:

By the way there are 57 Islamic nations today and look forward for other countries to follow soon to the enlightment that Islam presents.

This web site and millions like these will come & whither. Islam is and will continue to grow, no matter what you think or do. Because the creator of this world wants it, who are we to try to stop. The truth will prevail - "the Messaiah WILL soon arrive with the message of Islam - if not you, your children will see.

24. Christ - the straight Talker said:

#23 above:

You're right!, how come there are so many Muslim countries and only a tiny little state "Is...."? Excepting the distorted history someone copy/pasted above, there is no evidence to believe the author of this article. Look at Malaysia, Indonesia, Niger, Turkey, Eriteria, etc.

25. ShyGuy said:

Hey No New Nonsense, who was slaughtering the Jews in WWII? Hitler and Europe, of course, but with a little help from their friends. Everyone should bookmark this link and pass it along.

57 Nations? Like wow! Any relation to Heinz? You can have a race against Christianity. Hint: it's quality - not quantity. But enjoy your ego trip.

And to Mr. Geez Us Christ, above, which distorted history pasted above are you referring to? My post, #16? Go ahead. Disprove any of it. It should be easy as pie for you. Go ahead.

26. MohammedToShyGuy25 said:

The poor Jews who suffered the massacre in Europe were the vistims of a larger treason and corruption that is worth investigating. I wonder who was the friend of Hitler!

1943: February 18th, Zionist, Izaak Greenbaum, head of the Jewish Agency Rescue Committee, in a speech to the Zionist Executive Council states,

“If I am asked, could you give from the UJA (United Jewish Appeal) monies to rescue Jews, I say, no and I say again no!”
He would go onto state, “One cow in Palestine is worth more than all the Jews in Poland!”

27. Leonard said:

Mohammed - by your latest posting - you show your true colours. It is well known that the Leader of the Arab Palestinians the Mufti Haj Amin Al Husseini was a stooge of the Nazi's who stayed in Berlin with Himmler the head of the SS and preached incitement to the Muslim World to carry out the Nazi's Final Solution in Israel. Whereas the Zionist Jews in Israel volunteered en masse to fight against the Nazi's and many were sent on suicide missions into Europe or Tobruk where they perished. There was a pro-Nazi revolt in Iraq and Syria. You only have to look at the recent proclamations by the iranian President to wipe out Israel and view the numerous antisemitic TV productions in large parts of the Muslim World (through website MEMRI TV) to recognise that a significant section of the Muslim World would desire a second Genocide of the Jewish population - this time in Israel.

28. MohammedToLeonard27 said:

''the Muslim World would desire a second Genocide of the Jewish population - this time in Israel'': This is the image that the state's men in israel and those who think that creating a fight between muslims and Jews would initiate the return of Jesus (peace be upon him) are trying to teach Jews all over the world and it is not true; it is just a nonsense. It is true that there are differences between muslims and (I stress this) people in Israel (Jews practicing or not) because we believe that they are oppressing palestinians and they have stolen their lands; we may of cource diagree on that. But I am not discussing the politics of this issue, I was all along discussing religion except in my last post where I have attached a quote from a guy from UJA for the poster who is trying to picture the muslims as the source of the massacre of the Jews in Europe.
I would also attach a quote of Ben Guerion that shows that arabs and muslims have nothing to do with this:

ben Gurion said to Nahum Goldmann, future head of the World Jewish Congress:

“If I were an Arab leader, I would never sign an agreement with Israel. It is normal; we have taken their country. It is true God promised it to us, but how could that interest them? Our God is not theirs. There has been anti-Semitism, the Nazis, Hitler, Auschwitz, but was that their fault? They see but one thing: we have come and we have stolen their country. Why would they accept that?”

So thepoint is simple: this idea of muslims who want a genocide of the Jews doesnt stand on the basis of religion neither on the basis of history.

29. MohammedToLeonard27 said:

Foregt to say: We worship the same God as Jews, the unique God who created this world, who sent Moses (peace upon him)with his message to guide people to his path!

2:136 say ye: "we believe in Allah, and the revelation given to us, and to Abraham, Isma'il, Isaac, Jacob, and the Tribes, and that given to Moses and Jesus, and that given to (all) prophets from their Lord: we make no difference between one and another of them: And we bow to Allah (in Islam)."

30. Leonard said:

Mohammed - Please try to explain away the latest public proclamation by the Iranian President to "wipe out" the State of Israel. If that does not amount to a premeditated genocidal intent - then I don't know what does. Also, you are coming up with various quotes purporting to come from various Jewish officials that are basically fake. You are addressing a forum where people are generally well informed. There are alot of antisemitic publications in circulation. Would you care to share with us your sources?

31. kuhnkat said:

Hi Mohammed:

Did you get the time to answer all the questions in the other post?? I see you are lying your @ss off again.

Why don't you tell us about the Muslim SS groups organised by Haj Amin al Husseini in the Balkans during WWII that were killing Jews and Serbs and everyone else except genocidal Nazis.

How about telling us how the Muslim Brotherhood received the head of those good Muslims Haj Amin al Husseini back in Egypt after the war as a hero and revered as his good friend Hitler to this day.

Tell us how this same Muslim Brotherhood assasinated the Egyptian President who signed a peace treaty with and recognised Israel to get back the Sinai.

Tell us about the many Muslims, especially in the West Bank who adopt Hitler as a nickname and are hailed by the other GOOD MUSLIMS.

Tell us about the 600,000 Jews who were expelled with nothing from Muslim countries when the state of Israel was proclaimed after thousands of years!!

Tell us about the ethnic cleansing of Jews from most Muslim countries that has been ongoing to the point that there are few left anywhere in Muslim countries.

Tell us of the Muslim Insurgents in many countries killing innocent people, but especially Jews and Christians, to promote Jihad.

Tell us about the false BLOOD LIBEL that has been resurrected in many Muslim countries to generate hatred of the Jews.

Tell us of the Wahabbists preaching hate and death for Jews, Christians, and Infidels world wide.

Tell us how Muslims will not tolerate any free people in their countries. How our choices are Conversion, Dhimmitude, or DEATH.

If you do not believe these things you are an ignorant, lying, fool of a PIG.

If you believe these things you need to start working within your religion to purge these fanatics who will eventually cause a religious war that will kill a large number of Muslims in the world and may devastate a large number of non-muslim countries also.

As far as your perverted post #27, like any good lying propagandist you take Ben Gurion out of context. He was stating how YOU see the reforming of the Jewish state. How HE saw it was TAKING THEIR HOME BACK. Or are you going to lie you @ss off and say that he was willing to kill innocent people and steal their land?? You are worse than a PIG if you say this.

The Jews were on that land before you. They were never completely removed from it. They are now back in possession of their HOMELAND. Live with it or die.

So, let's go back to calm discussion. Why will the so-called Palestinians not put down their weapons and live in peace with the Jews?? Over 1,000,000 of your brothers are living in peace in Israel and not reporting atrocities committed on them. They have a higher standard of living than any other Muslim population. They even vote for their own representatives. (one of those representatives even badmouths the country that has been so good to him just like the traitorous lefties in the US) What benefit could they possibly have to NOT sign a PEACE TREATY with the Israelis and SWEAR NOT TO ATTACK THEM and actually follow through? If you simply put down you arms and lived peacefully you would undoubtedly outproduce children and gain Israel as another Muslim country in less than a hundred years. What is the rush to KILL JEWS??? According to you Muslims take the long view and work peacefully???

ANSWER JUST THAT ONE QUESTION!!!

32. kuhnkat said:

Nononsense said there are 57 Muslim nations. That's really nice. And with 57 countries under your control you can't defeat tiny little Israel??

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH

Ya think Allah just can't get it up??

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH

33. kuhnkat said:

Nononsense said:

"Have you forgotten the time when Caliph Omar-bin-khattab invited Jews back to Jerusalem when they were never even allowed to enter?"

Yup, he realised that depending on Muslims to make him rich just wasn't gonna happen. He invited the Jews cause the lower Jizyah they paid would be a heck of a lot more that the higher amount that would be paid by Muslims on NOTHING!!!!!

I would also remind a MORON like you that there have ALWAYS been Jews living in Jerusalem. Contrary to your hallucinations they were never completely purged from their HOME.

34. No Non-sense said:

#33

Time & again, people like you have always deceived the prophets - you're not alone baby! You'll realize when you're put in that 6 feet trench. For now say what ever you would, in front of Allah - you will not speak but each of your body part will.

Watch out for soon to be free - JERUSALEM from zionist crap.

35. No non-sense said:

#31

ANSWER TO YOUR QUESTION: What is the rush to KILL JEWS???

Look at any history book from any where in the world, you'll find that you were kicked out whether its Russia, Europe, India, etc.

You have been deceitful to the creator of this World and hence you'll be kicked out from where ever you try to establish yourself. You deceived Moses (peace be upon him) and Aaron (peace be upon him) and several other prophets. How come the so-called 'chosen one' have been without even a home for so many centuries? And were kicked-out from every where in the world. That's the curse and wrath of Allah on you.

36. kuhnkat said:

No non-sense said:

"Look at any history book from any where in the world, you'll find that you were kicked out whether its Russia, Europe, India, etc."

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH

You hating MORON. I am not Jewish. I do not even know too many Jewish people. You MORONS have made the biggest mistake of your lives declaring Jihad on the World. Your god Allah has deserted you and you are having to resort to killing your own people to try for PROPAGANDA victories like the Infidel Communists have taught you. What kind of religion must beg for handouts from godless communists???

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH

There are Jews currently living everywhere you mention. They, unlike ISLAMONAZIS, actually are HELPFUL and successful in the countries where they live.

No non-sense also said:

"you will not speak but each of your body part will."

and every part will be denying your allah.

No non-sense,

I talk to American soldiers and hear what they think of having to slaughter Jihadis, I was wondering how you feel about our soldiers slaughtering your Jihadis when they take enough drugs to actually meet the US soldiers in combat.

37. ajm said:

http://switch5.castup.net/frames/20041020_MemriTV_Popup/video_480x360.asp?ClipMediaID=60227&ak=null

38. ShyGuy said:

In case anyone doesn't know it yet, Islam tells its adherents that Jews are 1st class liars and have altered the text of the Torah to accomodate them.

So you see, Adam and Abraham and Moses, etc., were all Muslims. It was Yishmael that was placed upon the altar by Abraham - not Isaac, etc., etc., so on and so forth.

They do similar with Christianity. Christ was a human Messiah. There was no ressurection, etc.

Otherwise, Muslims would have been nothing but the pagan camel thieves that they had previously been in the world's biggest sandtrap.

The Internet is a great tool for disseminating both truth and falsehoods. I'll let the other non-Muslim readers here judge whose pulling the wool over whose eyes - both in posting and in historical facts.

39. kuhnkat said:

Mohammed:

Here is a quote of Muslims love for Jews from an article by a now ex-apologist for Islam:

"...I read the transcript of an interview with Basmallah, a three-year-old girl, again aired on Saudi TV, who was introduced as a “Muslim girl, a true Muslim”. Here’s the exchange:

Host: Basmallah, do you know the Jews?

Basmallah: Yes.

Host: Do you like them?

Basmallah: No.

Host: Why don’t you like them?

Basmallah: Because they are apes and pigs.

I shuddered to read such a thing...."

Read the rest of his article here:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/Columnists/Column/0,5673,1666871,00.html

For anyone who has never been there, here is the URL for a site that translates Arab papers and video so we can see what they say when they think we can't understand them. The site is run by an ex Israeli Intelligence Agent. Please note, they have been attacked any number of times by the press and others, but, no one has ever been able to show they translate anything incorrectly. (it would be hard to inflate what was and is actually being broadcast in the Arab world)

http://www.memri.org

It is really amazing the things they say in their own press about the west and Jews. Please note, there IS NO PRIVATE MEDIA IN SAUDI ARABIA. IT IS ALL GUBMINT OWNED!!!!!

40. rocky said:

no-nonsense

GET YOUR FACTS RIGHT!
Jews were never expelled from India, on the contrary, Jews escaping persecution from Islamic countries were welcomed by the maharajah of Cochin and allowed to settle in the island of mattancherry where the synagogue is to be seen.

About the problem with islam, it boils down to this:

ISLAM IS BAD TO THE BONE. It's a clear fact amply evident from history and I am positive I don't want any of it in my society.
Yes, the German Nazis killed jews, but they were bombed into non-existence and now they don't control any government.

The problem with Islam in the present day is only one:
THAT THERE ARE MANY NAIVE MORONS IN THE WORLD THAT THINK THAT ISLAM IS GOOD.

That is what scares me. And I am no Jew.

41. Abraham Brey (Director) said:

Go f**k you sisters jews because you will run out of your women soon. fudge packing mother f**kers.

42. ShyGuy said:

Seems like Muhammed's followers have run out of arguments and are back to trading in slaves and abducting women. More of the same.

43. MohammedtoLeonard30 said:

For the president of Iran: everyone is reponsible for what he says; all what I am trying to say is what is the link between what is claimed to be said or done by muslims against Jews and Islam, knowing that If I were a Jew in an Islamic country (and if you take time to read the quoran), I would be the first one to call for the respect of the orders of the Koran in the daily life of people: if someone steals my money, the koran imposes his hands be cut, if someone kills one my relative, the Koran gives me the right to do the same thing and no one can force me to change my religion and all what I am asked to do is pay a tax less than what muslims do and not preach my religion among muslims and I am not forced to partipate in any war against any other nation who initiates war against my country and my safetey and the safety of my business, my family is the responsability of muslims.
Back to the president of Iran though i dont want to be involved in politics cause I have seen the effect of politics on people such as Mr or Mrs KUHNKAT; it just turn them blind and with all the respect ignorant; I think What president of Iran said is again politics and is for internal consumption.

44. MohammedtoKuhnkat said:

with all the respect, it is not easy to discuss with someone like you. First you lie cause I answered your questions and I told you to be more specific. You keep bringing huge sites with questions based on stories you are ready to consume because of the hatered you are full of.
Next time try to base your discussion on facts and if you want to vilify the quoran, separate religion from politics and the stories proppaganda things. It is petty to say that you are basing your judgement on islam on an angry person (if this is not a lie at the outset) calling himself Hitler while propbably thousands in the west are revering him which is based on your way of reasoning makes Christianity more than evil (which is of course not true).
I also notice you are still using the word PIG; I dont understand why you are so excited after finding a 3 year or whatever girl saying this about Jews when you the adult is keeping saying the same thing in an environment of discussion.

Just for what Koran says about Jews and I have said it before; it ranges from describing them as bad people to the very pious people, but Find me a verse in the Koran that speaks of Jews like this:
Isaiah 1:4 'Ah, sinful nation, a people loaded with guilt, a brood of evildoers'

45. mohammed to Kuhnkat said:

Did you get the time to answer all the questions in the other post?? I see you are lying your @ss off again: See poster 17 before starting saying words.

Why don't you tell us about the Muslim SS groups organised by Haj Amin al Husseini in the Balkans during WWII that were killing Jews and Serbs and everyone else except genocidal Nazis: this is an invention that even you that you are coming with you cant confrm. If it were true, why Israeli government is not using it knowing that they are using similar thing with true perpatrators of crimes against Jews in WWII: it is just because it is not true.

How about telling us how the Muslim Brotherhood received the head of those good Muslims Haj Amin al Husseini back in Egypt after the war as a hero and revered as his good friend Hitler to this day: See above

Tell us how this same Muslim Brotherhood assasinated the Egyptian President who signed a peace treaty with and recognised Israel to get back the Sinai: seems you like this president; the question is not relevant to a religious discussion.

Tell us about the many Muslims, especially in the West Bank who adopt Hitler as a nickname and are hailed by the other GOOD MUSLIMS:
see poster 17.

Tell us about the 600,000 Jews who were expelled with nothing from Muslim countries when the state of Israel was proclaimed after thousands of years!!:
Tell us about the ethnic cleansing of Jews from most Muslim countries that has been
ongoing to the point that there are few left anywhere in Muslim countries.
this is not true, cause Isreal was doing and still doing all what it takes to bring them and there are even stories that illegal things were done to force them to go to Isreal. Just look at Jews who now are living in arab countries though few are well protected..

Tell us of the Muslim Insurgents in many countries killing innocent people, but especially Jews and Christians, to promote Jihad:
This is a media propaganda thing and politics. I will ask you the same thing, tell me about more than 100,000 who were in Iraq based on premedited purpose, on lies...Tell me about more than a million who were killed in Iraq from 1991 and for the kids that Mrs Albright said it is an acceptable(worth) price
to oust Saddam.....

Tell us about the false BLOOD LIBEL that has been resurrected in many Muslim countries to generate hatred of the Jews:
First it is not true in the sense it is not structural not like the the hatered I am feeling here from educated people. Think about action and reaction not religion.

Tell us of the Wahabbists preaching hate and death for Jews, Christians, and Infidels world wide: I guess it is the same ''argument'' as above.

Tell us how Muslims will not tolerate any free people in their countries. How our choices are Conversion, Dhimmitude, or DEATH:
I think you dont read posters, you just keep expressing the same ideas though we have discussed them. There is no compulsion, death..I am ready to reduiscuss this if you decide to be more consustent and specific

If you do not believe these things you are an ignorant, lying, fool of a PIG:
you sem to like this pig issue. BUt I tell you all what you brought was discussed o was based on just stories that dont stand the history test. So If you feel OK saying the PIG stuff, it is fine..

Forget to tell you go to poster17 to see my answers to your questions and dont let you hatered be your guidance '' see you are lying your @ss off again''
poster17

46. MohammedToKuhnkat said:

Since you are upset bywhat a 3 year old girl is saying, arent upset with statesmen of Isreal are saying? Can you explain this(see below):(AND AN ADVICE: dont let your hatered blind you; politics as done nowdays is synonymous or corruption, use of every means to reach goals and personal aspirations legal or not, distrortion or religion to achieve goals...; SO IF YOU ARE SERIOUSLY interested in truth, forget for a while politics cause one neds up reasoning and doing like politicians. Religion on the other hand is something different, you worship God as he asks you to do and you translate his orders and attributes into your daily life (mercy, respect(not the pig stuff!)..), you are not supposed to ''achieve'' anything in your life time (contrary to a politician) cause the judgement is not on earth. The most interesting contrast is that a politician can get away with all what he does on earth(he can manipulate people, lie..) and still achieve what he wants; in religion, you are dealing with God who his omnipresent, who knows what you think and what you do and equally important, you will stand before him and he will ask you about every single, oppression... act you have done. This is a huge difference. In Islam, we believe that God can forgive you all sins that are between you and him (related to being lazy in worshiping or not..) but he will never forget any sin between you and each one of his creatures (human or not): i.e you have to give people their rights on earth before leaving to the other life.
*********************************************************************************
''We must expel Arabs and take their places."
-- David Ben Gurion, 1937, Ben Gurion and the Palestine Arabs, Oxford University Press, 1985.
*********************************************************************************
"We must use terror, assassination, intimidation, land confiscation, and the cutting of all social services to rid the Galilee of its Arab population."

-- David Ben-Gurion, May 1948, to the General Staff. From Ben-Gurion, A Biography, by Michael Ben-Zohar, Delacorte, New York 1978.
*********************************************************************************
"There has been Anti-Semitism, the Nazis, Hitler, Auschwitz, but was that their fault? They see but one thing: we have come and we have stolen their country. Why would they accept that?"
-- Quoted by Nahum Goldmann in Le Paraddoxe Juif (The Jewish Paradox), pp. 121-122.
*********************************************************************************
"Jewish villages were built in the place of Arab villages. You do not even know the names of these Arab villages, and I do not blame you because geography books no longer exist. Not only do the books not exist, the Arab villages are not there either. Nahlal arose in the place of Mahlul; Kibbutz Gvat in the place of Jibta; Kibbutz Sarid in the place of Huneifis; and Kefar Yehushua in the place of Tal al-Shuman. There is not a single place built in this country that did not have a former Arab population."

-- David Ben Gurion, quoted in The Jewish Paradox, by Nahum Goldmann, Weidenfeld and Nicolson, 1978, p. 99.
*********************************************************************************
"Let us not ignore the truth among ourselves ... politically we are the aggressors and they defend themselves... The country is theirs, because they inhabit it, whereas we want to come here and settle down, and in their view we want to take away from them their country."
-- David Ben Gurion, quoted on pp 91-2 of Chomsky's Fateful Triangle, which appears in Simha Flapan's "Zionism and the Palestinians pp 141-2 citing a 1938 speech.
*********************************************************************************
"If I knew that it was possible to save all the children of Germany by transporting them to England, and only half by transferring them to the Land of Israel, I would choose the latter, for before us lies not only the numbers of these children but the historical reckoning of the people of Israel."
-- David Ben-Gurion (Quoted on pp 855-56 in Shabtai Teveth's Ben-Gurion in a slightly different translation).
*********************************************************************************

"It is the duty of Israeli leaders to explain to public opinion, clearly and courageously, a certain number of facts that are forgotten with time. The first of these is that there is no Zionism, colonialization, or Jewish State without the eviction of the Arabs and the expropriation of their lands."

-- Ariel Sharon, Israeli Foreign Minister, addressing a meeting of militants from the extreme right-wing Tsomet Party, Agence France Presse, November 15, 1998.
*********************************************************************************
"Everybody has to move, run and grab as many (Palestinian) hilltops as they can to enlarge the (Jewish) settlements because everything we take now will stay ours...Everything we don't grab will go to them."
-- Ariel Sharon, Israeli Foreign Minister, addressing a meeting of the Tsomet Party, Agence France Presse, Nov. 15, 1998.
*********************************************************************************
"Israel may have the right to put others on trial, but certainly no one has the right to put the Jewish people and the State of Israel on trial."

-- Israeli Prime Minister Ariel Sharon, 25 March, 2001 quoted in BBC News Online
*********************************************************************************
"(The Palestinians) would be crushed like grasshoppers ... heads smashed against the boulders and walls."
-- Isreali Prime Minister (at the time) Yitzhak Shamir in a speech to Jewish settlers New York Times April 1, 1988
*********************************************************************************
We walked outside, Ben-Gurion accompanying us. Allon repeated his question, What is to be done with the Palestinian population?' Ben-Gurion waved his hand in a gesture which said 'Drive them out!"
-- Yitzhak Rabin, leaked censored version of Rabin memoirs, published in the New York Times, 23 October 1979

*********************************************************************************

47. kuhnkat said:

Mohamed worse than a pig,

You will use quotes from Ben Gurion but deny that Haj Amin Al-Husseini organised terrorist attacks on Jews. At the time of your first Ben Gurion quote Al-Husseini had been slaughtering Jews and Muslims for years. Committed atrocities against Jews. Killed Muslims because they sold land to Jews until Ben Gurion and other Jews could stand your filth NO MORE. Even the British decided to throw Al-Husseini out of the country because he caused too much violence to Jews, Muslims, and British and they were the ones who had selected him to be the Grand Mufti of Jerusale!!.

Your hero ran to Hitler and helped him commit the Holocaust against the Jews. The other apparent Muslim on this thread keeps claiming the Europeans did this deed. Yes they did, with the help of GOOD MUSLIMS. Al-Husseini is still revered by your people for his slaughter of Jews. Hitler is still revered by your paople for slaughtering Jews.

You deny, call me mistaken, a liar. The facts of history show the LIARS ARE MUSLIMS and you spew these same LIES!!

You are a filthy lying propagandist who will not tell the truth because your dog god tells you that you can lie to the infidel to promote Jihad. Your words are empty and meaningless unless spoken to a Muslim and I am not and never will be a Muslim.

You can not admit the truth because you are afraid to know that allah is a false god and muslims have been killing and torturing for over 1000 years FOR NOTHING!!!!!

48. kuhnkat said:

Mohammed less than pig said:

"Since you are upset bywhat a 3 year old girl is saying, arent upset with statesmen of Isreal are saying?"

I am not upset by what a 3 year old girl who is a good Muslim in Saudi Arabia said. I am upset by what she is being taught by GOOD MUSLIMS. You claim it is all the Jews fault and you are misunderstood and are really a religion of peace.

Explain why GOOD MUSLIMS teach their children what this little girl has been taught. Explain why this is common in the Muslim world. Explain why the rest of the world should not rise up together and commit GENOCIDE against Muslims who teach their children to HATE like this. Who believe their god is the best one and that everyone else must bow down to you or die.

Remember as you continue to lie you give us more reason to want to eradicate a race and religion of vicious genocidal liars who can not be trusted to treat honorably with us.

The proof is in the facts of every treaty you make with the Jews you break. The treaties you make with any infidel you break. Why should we suffer you animals to be loose in this world?

49. rocky said:

Mohammed,

Islam is doomed because it has raised its hand against God's chosen people.

Look at the fate of Faraoh and Nazi Germany.

50. kuhnkat said:

For all you GOOD Muslims, if the so-called Palestinians have such a strong claim for the land, and if Islam is a Religion of Peace, and if Allah is soooo strong, then why did you have to kill little Muhammad Al Dura and blame it on the IDF??

http://www.seconddraft.org/home.php

I'll tell you, DESPERATION in a LOSING CAUSE.

51. MohammedToKunhnat47-48-50 said:

There is nothing in your posters that needs to be answered and of course all you do is keep recycling the same unfounded and ''ridiculous'' claims without even commenting on what i said. Anyway, I dont know your age, maybe its the cause if you are too young and in such a case, i dont blame you but I urge you to start devlopping reasoning mechanisms and FORGET FOR A WHILE THIS PIG STUFF! I dont ask you to forget your hate cause it looks like it is structural, but just remember that hate is a blinding mechanisms: its a trap that hides you all the truths.

52. MohammedToRock49 said:

Faraoh was defeated (and he should have been) by the forces of Allah for he was arrogant and he defies Moses (peace be upon him)and claimed he is better that the God of Moses and the Jews and he was unjust.
The Nazi were defeated (and they should have been) for they were arrogant and cultivated oppression, abuse and unjustice in the land of Allah. Allah th merciful made a promise that anyone who does things like this is deemed to punishment and h, the Almighty, creates the causes that translate in the punishment of the arrogants, the oppressors and the abusers. The mercy of Allah and his laws are not dont work just for the ''chosen'' people. They work for all his creatures, cause arrogance is an attribute of God and whoever tries to share this attributes with him will be punished sooner or later. Prophet Mohammed (peace be upon him) said: no one will enter paradis if he has a grain of arrogance inside his heart (whether he is muslim or not).
We muslims believe that Allah defeats nations if they are unjust even if they are muslims and vice versa.
Try to be humble and just on earth cause the rewards(and punishments) are here on earth;for the choice of the path to God (religion),judgement is there in thereafter.

53. Mohammed To Kunhkat47 said:

To every one: sorry now, i will be using wrong and stupid reasoning,

Hi Kuhnkat,
Arent you ashamed with christianity, since Hitler as a good christian slaughtered all those Jews. Because you are so loving of Jews, dont you feel the shame to be christian; or your reaction against muslims is the way you think will beautify christianity and makes the story of Hitler forgotten and replace it with muslims slaughtered Jews in Europe.
*******************************************************************************
The truth is that we believe in Jesus (peace be upon him and his message) and we belive that his mother Mary (peace be upon her) is the purist woman oneart and that christianity has nothing to do with the slaughter of Jews.

3:42 Behold! the angels said: "O mary! Allah hath chosen thee and purified thee- chosen thee above the women of all nations.

3:45 Behold! the angels said: "O mary! Allah giveth thee glad tidings of a Word from Him: his name will be Christ Jesus, the son of mary, held in honour in this world and the Hereafter and of (the company of) those nearest to Allah.

3:36 When she was delivered, she said: "O my Lord! Behold! I am delivered of a female child!"- and Allah knew best what she brought forth- "And no wise is the male Like the female. I have named her mary, and I commend her and her offspring to Thy protection from the Evil One, the Rejected."

3:37 Right graciously did her Lord accept her: He made her grow in purity and beauty: To the care of Zakariya was she assigned. Every time that he entered (Her) chamber to see her, He found her supplied with sustenance. He said: "O mary! Whence (comes) this to you?" She said: "From Allah. for Allah Provides sustenance to whom He pleases without measure."

3:43 "O mary! worship Thy Lord devoutly: Prostrate thyself, and bow down (in prayer) with those who bow down."

4:171 O People of the Book! Commit no excesses in your religion: Nor say of Allah aught but the truth. Christ Jesus the son of mary was (no more than) an apostle of Allah, and His Word, which He bestowed on mary, and a spirit proceeding from Him: so believe in Allah and His apostles. Say not "Trinity" : desist: it will be better for you: for Allah is one Allah. Glory be to Him: (far exalted is He) above having a son. To Him belong all things in the heavens and on earth. And enough is Allah as a Disposer of affairs.

5:75 Christ the son of mary was no more than an apostle; many were the apostles that passed away before him. His mother was a woman of truth. They had both to eat their (daily) food. See how Allah doth make His signs clear to them; yet see in what ways they are deluded away from the truth!

2:136 say ye: "we believe in Allah, and the revelation given to us, and to Abraham, Isma'il, Isaac, Jacob, and the Tribes, and that given to Moses and Jesus, and that given to (all) prophets from their Lord: we make no difference between one and another of them: And we bow to Allah (in Islam)."

54. rocky said:

Mohammed,
I have a few questions:
If Pharaoh was defeated by the forces of "Allah", as you say, is allah the same God as God in the Bible?
If Pharaoh wwas the bad guy, Moses and the Israelites were then Muslims?

If nazism was defeated owing to arrogance, can you prove that Islam is a doctrine of humility?

Can you prove that a nation ruled by Islam is a just nation?
Is the concept of justice in Islam universal?
So how come so many churches are burned in Indonesia and Pakistan?

55. Mohammed To Rocky said:

''If Pharaoh was defeated by the forces of "Allah", as you say, is allah the same God as God in the Bible?''
Of course Allah, is the God who sent Moses, Jesuss.. (peace be upon them). He the Almighty is the only God who created this universe..Read carefully this.
2:136 say ye: "we believe in Allah, and the revelation given to us, and to Abraham, Isma'il, Isaac, Jacob, and the Tribes, and that given to Moses and Jesus, and that given to (all) prophets from their Lord: we make no difference between one and another of them: And we bow to Allah (in Islam)."

''If Pharaoh wwas the bad guy, Moses and the Israelites were then Muslims?'':
Yes we believe that all messages of God are Islam. Islam is worshipping only the true God and complete obeydience to him and all the messages came with this.

''If nazism was defeated owing to arrogance, can you prove that Islam is a doctrine of humility?''
First, it was arrogance and of course injustice. On this last point Prophet Mohammed (peace be upon him) said: Be careful and avoid the prayer of the abused and oprressed (muslim or not) (i.e dont abuse or oppress) cause there is no veil between his prayer and Allah.
A proof of humility:
Prophet Mohammed (peace be upon him ) said: No one with a grain of arrogance will enter paradis.

''Can you prove that a nation ruled by Islam is a just nation?''
Amar Ibn al aas was the ruler of egypt in the Omar (second khalif). There was horse race in which the horse of the son of amr and the horse of a christian were competing. The christian won. The son of amr was angry and started beating the christian and saying names. The christian manage to escape from egypt and went to see Omar and told him the story.Omar sent a message to Amr (the father) and told him, once you receive this message let everything in your hand and come with your son. Once they were all together with omar, he gave a stick to the christian and told him take revenge of the son and even the father if you want cause the son built on the position of his father to abuse you. The Christian beat the son but didnt touch the father. All muslims that were around (best companions) were saying: he was beating him and we were saying inside us he should be more harsh ( asign that those people and regardless of the relationship with the abuser disntaccept oppression).

''So how come so many churches are burned in Indonesia and Pakistan?'':
First I dont believe that as many churches ae burned in the world as many mosques were destroyed in Israel and Iraq...But this is another issue. But, if it happens it is a clear abuse of christian rights and whoever does it should be punished and it is up to the society to educate the people(muslims) about what this religion is saying about the rights of the people of the book in a muslim country.

56. Egle said:

No wonder - It's why there is war in the world. As a Brazilian and who descends from Jews, Natives and Blacks - and who grew up as a Christian (protestant)- and who knows very well how the Church killed, robbed, raped, made their own slaves (we cann't forget that many black slaves were Christians) Jews, Christians and Muslims through history (and I'm talking not only about Catholicism, but Ortodox and Prostestant Churches as well) I have only one thing to say: We humans are really crazy. Correction about Spanish History. Muslims didn't invade Spain (like we read in books) - They couldn't invade a country which didn't exist. Queen Isabel of Castilla (the mad) put muslims out of the land (in this case Andaluzia) and put all the different regions together. It's why in Spanish the name of the Spanish language was called for many years as "castellano" and not Spanish, because it was the language spoke only in Castilla. And we shouldn't forget that she also made cruzade against Jews. In the Dark Ages Jews were also killed by Christians because of the Black Plague. And we shouldn't forget the Holocaust - (I didn't know that Germans were muslims) - and the Pogroms in Russia. Were all Russians muslims?). And of course we shouldn't forget the KKK - which is a very antisemitic organization and who proclaims to be Christians.

As John Lennon wrote: Imagine no religion too.

bye

Egle

57. Mohammed to Egle said:

Its not religion which is the cause of wars; its hunman arrogance, corruption and greed. Religion from the first messages of God have the same components: a vertical relationship between humans and their creators through worshipping and obeydience and a horizontal one between them that God has ordered us to build based on justice. he the Almighty knew the arrogance and the greed of people, so he decided that rewards (and punishments)of the vertical relationship is his duty alone and its something that will be done not here on earth but in the thearafeter. Arrogance and greed also translayes in abuse and oppression in the horizontal relationship between humans, so God decided he is not forgiving any sin that emerges because of this oppression and abuse and that this sin is not forgiven unless the sinful returns the ''rights'' abused to the abused people and ask forgiveness from the people he abused or oppressed...Religion as God wanted it is the perfect haromony and the ideal and beautiful thing a human can think about , say or do. In that sense, while John lenoon was a great singer, he was wrong on this issue!

58. rocky said:

When faced with Islam in a site like this I hear so much diplomatic talk from the Muslim propagandists.
But I can guarantee that it is all bogus.

I know by experience what it is to deal with Islamic persecution because my wife, formerly a Muslim, decided to embrace Christianity.
She never found a smooth-talking Muslim like Mohammed where and when it mattered. These guys are just double-faced liars.

59. Mohammed To Rock58 said:

I think we have talked about this idea you are obssesd with that muslims are doublefaced liars. And I have said, that Islam has nothing to hide and I have answered your questions about what Islam says about Jews and christians without trying to please you. But it looks like you are obsessed with this idea, what can can do to help you see the truth, nothing. Now if the story of your wife is true (and i dont have any reason to say no), just tell her there is someone who claims Islam is like that (with proofs from the Koran) and let her say what she has to say.
But its intelectually ''degrading'' to stick to an idea based on hate not facts.