1. rocky said:

Palestinians haven't understood yet that promoting lawlessness, even though in the name of intifada, terror bombing, religious fanaticism and constant whining reaching the pitch of hysteria, are not the way to build up a nation.

The Palestinian authorities have promoted the worst strains in their own people, instead of encouraging hard work, rational thought, benevolence and mutual respect and affection, they have fed demons.
Now these devils in their own society have grown fat and strong among the Palestinian people and are exacting their toll.

Who sows the wind reaps the whirlwind.

2. kuhnkat said:

rocky,

You are making a common mistake of people in the west. That mistake is thinking that the so-called Palestinians are, or want to be, an independent, functional stste.

Arafat at the suggestion of others created the so-called Palestinian movement as a propaganda tool to get money and moral support from the useful idiots of the west. It also gave cover to the anti-semites to support their genocidal policies publicly.

It is the only explanation I can come up with for the purposeful ignorance the west has put on.

They created the Balfour Treaty. They disassembled the Balfour Treaty. They created the Green Line and the International Agreements allowing land that has been captured in warfare to be kept and they are consistently ignoring that fact. They allowed the creation of a group that has consistently called for the eradication of Israel and supports it with money and propaganda, and they consistently pass resolutions attacking Israel for protecting themselves from these same animals.

3. Yoel Ben-Avraham said:

Although I agree that this "gang-style" free-for-all is somehow indemic to Arab society (see Lebanon or Iraq) it is interesting to read the words of a Muslin Arab who knows both Israeli society and the 'Palestinian' society. His conclusions, as difficult as I find it to agree to them, are none-the-less interesting after you have read his long detailedc analysis:

"I believe that the Palestinians in general are a people who want democracy. The Palestinians are among the most educated in the Arab world and they have been exposed both to the Israeli democratic system and to the Western democratic system. Unlike many of the Arab countries, there is an open debate today in Palestinian society. I believe democracy might happen, but not in the near future. As long as you have armed gangs in the streets and as long as the Palestinian security forces are not real security forces and as long as there is no rule of law, you can't have democracy."

4. rocky said:

Kuhnkat,
I am not assuming that the Palestinians are or want to be an independent functional state. I certainly am not that naive.

The contradictions between Islam and nationalism are very complex. Under certain conditions they are of such nature that islam itself ends up destroying the foundations that are necessary for a healthy nationalism to emerge.
The question of priorites concerning where one ultiamte loyalty lies, creates no end of contraditions and brokenness.

And yet at the same time it is clear that the Saudis wish to create a Muslim state on the ruins of Israel as a further "guardian" of the 'holy place' they deem they have in Jerusalem. Such an aim gives them prestige among muslims worldwide. This aim allows the to be regarded as a sort of model state, whic in practice they are so obviously not.

My questions are meant to encourage thought and positive thinking, in a Socratic manner.

5. kuhnkat said:

rocky,

I am unclear as to what evidence there is that Saudi Arabia wants to create a Muslim State where Israel currently resides.

I believe they are smart enough to realise that what would be left there after the Jews are run out or killed would be a huge festering wound. The infighting we see now would be multiplied as the different groups vied for ascendancy. IT would be too late for Israel but a great lesson for the rest of the world of what IslamoNazism will really cause.

Has any group started tracking the movements of the Imams around the Mosques of the world to see who is promoting what?? They would be the only ones I could see having any influence on the situation due to how polarized the people have been made. If a faction, House OF Saud or other, in Saudi Arabia truly is directing things it would be through them.