1. Ptah said:

The IslamoFascists are not the only ones persecuting Christians: The Red Chinese and the

One very, very minor nit: Jesus didn't say "unto the least of these, my followers". He said "Unto the least of these, my bretheren". I personally take this to include Jews (his brethern by blood) as well as Christans (his brethern by adoption). He never rejected the people of his physical ancestry, insisted to a samaritan that "Salvation is of the Jews", but equally insisted on an expansion of the circle of blessing. The Jews will always be at the center of that circle: we quibble only on the size of the radius.

2. Ptah said:

"....and the North Koreans". My bad.

3. Leonard said:

The term "Christ killers " was used by Christian antisemites to whip up pograms against their Jewish minorities for close to two thousand years in Czarist Russia, the Crusades etc Since its connotations are associated with the slaughter of countless Jewish communities in Europe - its really a label that we should stay well clear of.

Bill whilst recognizing the plight of the Christian communities in the Muslim World - in particular Pakistan, Sudan, Indonesia and the Lebanon it is wrong to adopt the language historically associated with the persecution of the Jews.

4. rocky said:

Leonard,
True that Christianity has an unfortunate history of anti-semitism, but note that it was always in communities where the priestly class was keeping the common men in ignorance of what the Bible says.
No Christian reading St. Paul's Epistles and being familiar with St. Peter and St. Paul's personality and background could possibly have anything but sympathy, love and hope for the Jewish nation.
In the Christian Bible it is stated clearly that "Salvation is from the Jews".
Even though I am a Christian, I am deeply convinced that our fate and the fate of the Jews are tightly bound, so I and my children consider Jews our best natural friends and allies until the end of times.

5. Leonard said:

Thanks for that clarification rocky - I accept that there is a natural affinity between Christians and Jews of shared values that tightly bind us. I was solely criticizing the emotive term of abuse "Christ Killers" that historically was used by False priests in Eastern and Central Europe to whip up pogroms against defenceless Jewish communities.Europe is littered with the ashes of our people - and certain terms of abuse have historic connotations in the Jewish psyche and should be avoided.

6. Bill Levinson said:

Leonard, I'm well aware that the term "Christ Killers" was originally used to whip up hatred of Jews. The Islamofascist enemy has in fact used the "Jews crucifying Jesus" imagery for the same purpose, as shown at http://www.omdurman.org/propag.html#Palestinian.

Since Islamofascists and not Jews are actually killing people for following Jesus' teachings, though, the facts and truth are entirely on our side and we should not hesitate for an instant to throw the inflammatory and hate-filled phrase "Christ Killers" back in the Islamofascists' faces.

As you point out, "Certain terms of abuse have historic connotations in the Jewish psyche and should be avoided." This is why the last thing the Islamofascist propagandists expect is to have Jews (and their other enemies) brand their own side with the "Christ Killer" label. That is the political equivalent of maneuver and shock tactics-- maneuver is finding a means of attack the enemy does not expect and cannot defend himself against, and shock is hitting through him as hard as possible with a decisive and confident attack. (As Saint George Patton put it, "We are going to go through them like crap through a goose!") As you see, I have enough confidence in my arguments to use a phrase like "Christ Killer" despite its historical connotations because I believe the facts back me up on its application to the enemy.

7. kuhnkat said:

As a christian I have always had a hard time understanding the hate that has been generated by the term Christ Killers. In the Bible Jesus makes clear many times that his coming to earth and being crucified was his Fathers plan and it had to happen to save us.

He questioned his father, more than once I believe, whether it was necessary. The answer was alway YES. Even as a child I never had the view that the Jews were really involved. I disliked the Romans as occupiers and sinners who did the actual killing. I also really disliked the Priests and Merchants who testified against Jesus to get the Romans to Kill him.

I guess I was lucky not to be around bigots who would teach that evil view to a child.

I think it may have helped that I came from a lower income family that distrusted Authority as opposed to ethnicity.

As I grew older and learned more and understood more I fully assimilated the idea that the TOOL did not matter. Jesus HAD to die for our sins. We are ALL to blame as it is our sins he died to forgive.

We can look down on people who act like the Merchants and Priests and Romans, but, Christ Killer was not appropriate as they had their place in creating what G-D intended.

The Muslims on the other hand are TRULY trying to kill Jesus by Killing his legacy and its followers. If anyone deserves the appelation they do.

I have to admit that I am uncomfortable with the term as is Leonard. Sometimes you have to consider how much like your enemy you are willing to become to defeat him.