1. David Barrington said:

SCIENTOLOGY
www.drexun.org details the relationship between a $1.6 TRILLION (!) industry and Scientology. The homepage at www.drexun.org blows the lid off. Also on that website is an article published in the prestigious Drexel University -- it is a must read.

2. Jasper said:

Hey Bill, why is it that all your posts include some sort of history lesson? Perhaps you should leave your position as a staff engineer and industrial statistician and become a history professor. Then you can posit your Star Wars challenges to actual college students who take part in Palestine solidarity work without sounding like too much of a looney toon. Seriously, you may have found your calling...

3. Tilman Hausherr said:

About Charlotte Kates: She went from one hate-group (scientology) to another hate-group ("Palestine Solidarity Movement", or whatever these anti-Israel groups call themselves this week). Kindof sad. Of course, she doesn't see it as a hate-group :-)

@1:
www.drexun.org is your pro-scientology propaganda page, so why do you make it look as if this is a critics page? That makes you a liar. To know the real details about scientology, visit www.xenu.net.

4. Charlotte said:

Please stop your willfully false misrepresentations of me immediately. If you have ANY evidence that I've EVER made ANY statement about "children" and "targets," please post it. Time, place, form and event, thank you very much. Not "well I read that someone said that they heard someone else say you said..." What did I allegedly say, and when did I say it, to whom and where? Thanks. Vague references from the King-Of-Poor-Research who never met an accurate citation he *likes*, otherwise known as Lee Kaplan, do not suffice. Unless, of course, he can actually provide a source or an actual quote. But he can't. Because it didn't happen.

Just like most of the things you write about re Palestine solidarity activism here...

Rest assured, Bill, you're not going to get a "changed mind" from me about the just, important and legitimate struggle of the Palestinian people for liberation and return. Or about the right of people, everywhere in the world, to free themselves from occupation and oppression, or about the right of millions of refugees to return to their lands and properties from which they were expelled. No matter what racist justification you and your hateful allies can come up with - because these allegations of "hate" are quite misdirected, turn around and look in the mirror - Palestinians have a right to live and a right to go home. And no amount of propaganda can erase that. Unlike you, I don't need to stereotype and associate Jews as a whole with the Zionist movement or the Israeli state entity, nor do I need to negate Jewishness in order to recognize and support the Palestinian movement.

But, Bill, while you were busy doing your "research," which includes misattributing quotes that were never said by me or anyone else, misaffiliating various individuals to organizations of which they are not members, and relying on every dubious source on the Internet, did you notice that what I wrote in *1998* (when I was 18) is hosted on a "mirror" site? Do you care if it actually reflects what I actually think about Scientology?

(Never mind, I know the answer to that, Ican see from your other pages about other people how much you care about actual accurate reflection, that would be, not at all)

This statement: "will always speak out against Scientology and strive to do my best to expose its true nature--its fraudulence, criminality and mind control tactics" is one that I would never make today. Frankly, MY earlier statement reminds me a bit too much of yours on this blog..."fraudulence, criminality, mind control," all in the general sense, and no specific allegations that can be verified. So there you go, I CAN change my mind AND I can say was wrong. I do in fact believe in freedom of mind, and that includes the freedom of Scientologists to be Scientologists, who are not, in fact, under "mind control," nor "criminal."

But all of this is of course just window-dressing to draw attention away from the fact that Palestine solidarity and Palestinian activism in North America is everything this blog is not - it can provide documented facts for its claims and allegations, it can show evidence of the destruction wrought upon Palestinian lives and it can call for justice.

None of this is "hateful." None of this requires negating anyone else. All it requires is the commitment of all to abolish racism, apartheid, discrimination and oppression and to recognize Palestinians' right to Palestinian land and Palestinian lives.

So, Bill, how about changing sides? I'm sure you would rather be able to write something about justice and achieving it, rather than hateful rhetoric about everyone with whom you disagree.

5. Jessica said:

Charlotte,
First
of all, I have seen you at many Al Awda evnts. In order to establish your crediability you should stop wearing skirts with sequins, that make yu lik fat. When you dress that way, you make yourself look catoonish, and it takes away from your message. In fact, your immodest dress is not what the new party of HAMAS would want to represent the new "government" in "Palestine". You should adopt the traditon of hijab, and clothing that best refelect the way women in the PA will have to dress under the oppressive regimeof radical Islam and HAMAS.
Since we are talking history, who ruled Palestine prior to the 48 partition? Was there a king, or queen? What was the governemnt ? Was it run like England? Or was it a dictatrship like CUBA? What was the system of law? I really want to know if it was the Turks, Brits, or who that ran this "country"
Charlotte, you need to lose weight, get your act together, and move to Ramallah

6. Christian said:

Charlotte needs to get laid.

7. Jesse Jacksoff said:

"palestinian people" is the largest arab terrorist organization in the world, created by Egypt's Gamal Abdel Nasser in the sixties as a demographic weapon used to fight against Israel. They have no history and no "home" in Palestine. As a matter of fact, there are more Arabs in Israel today, than there ever were before modern Israel was established.

All those that call themselves "refugees" (after almost 60 years) and the majority of other "balestinians" (who can't even brounounce their own nationality, as there is no "p" sound" in Arabic) whose cause PSM/ISM supports, are not interested in civility, self-determination, forming a state or living in peace with Israel. They are jihadi terrorists who, given an opportunity to freely elect their government, elected Hamas (which, in essense, is no different from Al Qaeda). Their only goal is destruction of Israel, and blind, brainwashed, cool-aid drinking, "cause"-addicted fools like Charlotte support them in that genocidal pursuit.

Charlotte, please spare your good-sounding, bleeding-heart cultie rhetoric for the ears of your fellow useful idiots and your jihadi masters. There is no "justice" in your cause, only blood.

8. David Barrington said:

Had the West developed alternative, renewable fuel sources, we would not be in this situation. With alternatives, the West would have distanced itself from the internal strife rampant in the Middle East, strife promoted by Middle East "leaders" who have kept their people illiterate and poor for generations.

That said, it should not be overlooked that terrorists are made, not born. Read the article "Terrorists" at www.FreedomMag.org. Separately, I invite you to visit my website at www.drexun.org for another insight as how a democracy can permit itself to become illiterate and drug dependent by (similar to the Middle East)to trust those in power and wielding immense influence to think of the "common good." Nothing could be further from their minds.

David Barrington, www.drexun.org

9. David Barrington said:

Re my posting -- revised as follows:

I invite you to visit my website at www.drexun.org for another insight as how a democracy can permit itself to become illiterate and drug dependent. The result (similar to the Middle East mindset)is to trust those in power, influencing citizens through the manipulation of emotions. We trust them to act on behalf of the "common good," yet their actions prove nothing could be further from their minds. Not all, of course, but enough to turn a planet into a breeding ground of disaster.

David M Barrington, www.drexun.org

10. Leonard said:

Charlotte - Please answer a simple question.

Now that Hamas has been shown to represent the aspirations of the Palestinian people - do you now identify with Hamas & its fundamentalist ideology & Genocidal objectives ?

Do you even know what Hamas stand for ?

You will find them a less friendly group than the Scientologists ? Please respond if you think you have an argument.

11. Bill Narvey said:

I do not know Charlotte Kates.

A quick check on the internet reveals her association with the New Jersey Solidarity Movement and other views she has which have been described as left wing to very left wing.

I have no reason to doubt Charlotte Kates' word that she never made a remark about children being legitimate targets for the Palestinian "resistance".

Kates however stated in part the following, in reply to Bill Levinson's post:

"Rest assured, Bill, you're not going to get a "changed mind" from me about the just, important and legitimate struggle of the Palestinian people for liberation and return. Or about the right of people, everywhere in the world, to free themselves from occupation and oppression, or about the right of millions of refugees to return to their lands and properties from which they were expelled."

Such comment from Kates' own mouth as it were, saying her mind will never be changed also leaves me in no doubt that she has been permanently transformed into a slave of left wing ideology and can therefor never be free to allow her mind to be influenced by fact, truth and reason, none of which have a place in the master ideology she is destined to serve.

The only relevance of the Charlotte Kates' to this world concerns the obnoxious blaring noise they make and the damage they can do.

12. Bill Levinson said:

Charlotte, I made the above comments in 100% good faith. If you believe that someone is making "willfully false misrepresentations" of you, it seems that your quarrel is with FrontPage Magazine, DiscoverTheNetwork, and the other original sources of the material in question. I found the statement about children being legitimate targets believable in the context of other things you are quoted as saying.

Furthermore, ISM leaders Adam Shapiro and Huwaida Arraf are on record-- in a pro-Palestinian publication, not FrontPage magazine-- as advocating terrorism. You are therefore part of a network whose leaders advocate terroristic violence and there was no up-front reason for me to doubt that you said the things in question. I do believe that the Palestine Chronicle is on your side and not ours:

http://palestinechronicle.com/article.php?story=20020129050221695

Adam Shapiro and Huwaida Arraf: "In actuality, nonviolence is not enough. Rather, what is needed is nonviolent direct action against the occupation." "The Palestinian resistance must take on a variety of characteristics— both nonviolent and violent. But most importantly it must develop a strategy involving both aspects. No other successful nonviolent movement was able to achieve what it did without a concurrent violent movement. In India militants attacked British outposts and interests while Gandhi conducted his campaign, while the Black Panther Movement and its earlier incarnations existed side-by-side with the Civil Rights Movement in the United States."

A Google search on "Charlotte Kates" and "Israeli children are" produces more than 90 matches in the context described above. Furthermore, a reasonable person would consider the allegation that you said Israeli children were legitimate targets credible in light of the following:

http://www.thejewishpress.com/news_article.asp?article=2709

"Charlotte Kates, the organizer of the New Jersey Solidarity Movement— an offshoot of the International Solidarity Movement— has refused to condemn homicide bombings and other means of 'armed resistance.'"

Again, this statement is quoted elsewhere and I find it credible because your friend Nadeem "Internet abuse" Muaddi just told The Hoya that the PSM will not condemn suicide bombings because it is not up to the PSM to tell the Palestinians how to resist. Per http://www.thehoya.com/news/012706/news5.cfm, "“We condemn violence in all its forms,” Muaddi said. "But Muaddi declined to condemn suicide bombings, saying that it would not be right “to criticize Palestinians for taking part in violence when the Israeli forces are taking part in violence.”" If that isn't doublespeak I don't know what is.

According to this source (http://www.leftwatch.com/archives/years/2003/000026.html) and others, "In response to an e-mail query, Ms Charlotte Kates of New Jersey Solidarity explained that this support extends to suicide bombing, "We support Palestinians' right to resist occupation and oppression, and do not feel that it is our place as a solidarity movement to dictate tactics of resistance to the Palestinian people," she wrote. Ms Kates does not see anything wrong with suicide bombing. She states, "Why is there something particularly horrible about "suicide bombing" - except for the extreme dedication conveyed in the resistance fighter's willingness to use his or her own body to fight? Very seldom is there seen to be something uniquely horrible about fighter planes dropping massive bombs on entire cities, when the pilot flies home unscathed." This is similar to what Muaddi said and, as you are members of the same network, there is no obvious reason to doubt their credibility.

Now if someone made these things up about me out of whole cloth, I would post a refutation on a Web site. I would use the exact words that were ascribed to me so Google could index them, along with a statement of the facts in the case. Have you complained to FrontPage, DiscoverTheNetworks, and the other sources that I cited? If these other Web sites are misrepresenting what you said, however, we ought to put the issue to rest right now. I would be delighted to accept the proposition that you were misquoted about saying that children are "legitimate targets" if you will post a public statement to the effect that you, and the New Jersey Solidarity Movement, condemn all forms of terroristic violence against civilians and that, while you support Palestinian independence, you unequivocally and without reservation condemn and repudiate the Palestinians' use of terroristic violence, that terrorists-- whether school shooters, suicide bombers, hostage-takers, or hijackers-- are war criminals of the lowest order who are worthy only to be caged or put down like rabid dogs. At that point, I will personally write to FrontPage Magazine and some of the other sources I cited and tell them that you may have been misquoted and that they should remove or at least qualify the quotation accordingly.

I, incidentally, condemn unequivocally and without reservation any violence by the Israeli Defense Forces or other Israelis against innocent Palestinians. I believe such cases to be extremely rare and furthermore that, when they are discovered, the soldiers involved are punished. While Palestinians hold huge celebrations when a suicide bomber completes his mission, Israel disciplines its few citizens and soldiers who lift a hand against any Palestinian without cause. As an example, the sniper who shot Tom Hurndall was court-martialed and disciplined as opposed to being paraded through the streets as a hero the way suicide bombers are honored posthumously.

Now consider your statement, "All it requires is the commitment of all to abolish racism, apartheid, discrimination and oppression and to recognize Palestinians' right to Palestinian land and Palestinian lives." We certainly agree about racism, apartheid, discrimination, and oppression so I hope you will join me in condemning Palestinian misogyny, homophobia, and religious discrimination as documented at http://www.israpundit.com/archives/2006/01/nadeem_muaddi_l.php and elsewhere. Are you willing to condemn the Palestinian Authority's intentional violent persecution of homosexuals, its sanctioning of "honor killings" of women who lose their virginity, even to rape, and Hamas' plan to impose a special tax on Christians and other "unbelievers" under its jurisdiction?

By the way, Charlotte, how do you feel about being regarded as one-quarter of a human being by your Middle Eastern friends (noting that, even in the bad old days of slavery, a slave was three-fifths of a person)? In Saudi Arabia, whose so-called Constitution your Palestinian friends are copying, someone who wrongfully kills a Muslim man can escape punishment by paying his family 100,000 riyals in "blood money." You, Charlotte Kates, are worth only 25,000; there's a 50% discount for Christians and another 50% off for women. As a law student, how do you feel about your sworn testimony being worth only one-half of that of a man? That is how matters work in countries under Sharia (Islamofascist law).

My open letter to you was an offer of friendship and not "hateful rhetoric." You are obviously an intelligent and well-meaning person who is worthy of far better companions than you have now. As for "hateful rhetoric," I am not the one who says you are one-quarter of a human being for being an infidel women as opposed to a Muslim man. If you ever got married and your husband chose to slap you around or beat you to a pulp for displeasing him, I would call him a bully and a coward, and say that he should go to jail for assault. Sharia (Islamofascist law) says it's his RIGHT to hit you as long as he doesn't break any bones. If a man tried to rape you and you stuck a knife in him and killed him, I'd say he got what was coming to him. An Iranian court, however, just sentenced a young woman to be hanged from a crane for doing just that.

I am supremely confident that an intelligent woman who is interested in justice for all people will, upon investigating these things for herself, "go offline" from the Palestine Solidarity Movement hate cult in short order and help bring it down as the monstrous fraud and scam that it is. Here are a few Google searches (as opposed to citations of FrontPage or other conservative sources) to get you started:

http://www.google.com/search?as_q=palestinian+%22honor+killing%22&num=10&hl=en
&c2coff=1&btnG=Google+Search&as_epq=&as_oq=&as_eq=&lr=&as_ft=i&as_filetype
=&as_qdr=all&as_occt=any&as_dt=i&as_sitesearch=&as_rights=&safe=off

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&safe=off&c2coff=1&as_qdr=all&
q=palestinian+gays&btnG=Search

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&safe=off&c2coff=1&as_qdr=all
&q=palestinian+christians&btnG=Search

13. Voltaire's Child said:

Well, for one thing, there is no organization called "Scientology". The group that Charlotte Kates left was the Church of Scientology which is a harmful cult.

But there isn't any group or cult called "Scientology".

I bring this up because there are non Church of Scientology groups of Scientologists who wouldn't come within a mile of any Church of Scientology organization and who are definitely on the outs with CofS.

Now, onward. Re Christian and Jessica's comments to/about Charlotte, those are inappropriate and make them look like idiots.

As to the Palestine Solidarity Movement, surely it's a free country and Charlotte can involve herself in any political cause she chooses.

There's a difference in getting out of a small time rinky dink religious cult that wants to be a big fish in a big pond but which has barely reached embryonic tadpole status in a mud puddle, and in espousing such political causes as the individual deems appropriate.

14. Bill Levinson said:

Charlotte, my detailed response to your posting is pending approval (due to the number of links, including some Google searches for your use) but suffice to say for now that you are currently a member of a network whose leaders (e.g. Adam Shapiro, Huwaida Arraf) are on record, and in sources friendly to the Palestinian cause, of advocating terroristic violence. If someone saw alleged quotes from a Ku Klux Klansman saying that Black people ought to be lynched, a reasonable person would find them believable as opposed to suspecting them of being "willfully false misrepresentations" because the Ku Klux Klan has in fact been noted to espouse such beliefs. The ISM/PSM has endorsed terrorism on more than one occasion, as well as expressing a motive for wanting Rachel Corrie dead.

(I had better be careful of what I post, by the way; your friend Fadi Kiblawi is quite capable of taking my own words out of context to make "willfully false misrepresentations" as he did when he called me a racist in The Hoya. I can just see him stringing the above text together to get, "my detailed response ...saying that Black people ought to be lynched ...and wanting Rachel Corrie dead." :^) )

To get down to business, though, I am for peace and justice. Henry Ford wrote that these things come from economic opportunities for men to go from wearing kerchiefs around their necks (like Humphrey Bogart in "The African Queen") to collared shirts, and for women to go from wearing shawls-- and by implication face-covering Islamic headgear-- to wearing hats. When people have well-paying jobs they have no reason or inclination to steal from their neighbors, either through crime or war. That's the way it's supposed to work, anyway.

American philanthropists bought greenhouses from the Israeli settlers to turn over to the Palestinians in Gaza. They assumed quite naturally that giving the Palestinians the equivalent of forty acres of fertile land and a mule to work the land would allow them to achieve the vision statement described by Ford. Instead, the Palestinians looted and destroyed the greenhouses; they shot the mule and salted the fertile land so nothing would grow there. They burned down synagogues that they might have converted into housing, schools, or even mosques. They lost no time in using Gaza as a launching pad for missiles to fire at Israel. How can we have peace or justice when the Palestinians willfully destroy the very foundations of peace and economic opportunity?

There were no Israelis involved, Charlotte. No Evil Zionists, no colonialists, no oppressors, just Palestinians under Palestinian rule. There are no Israelis in this picture either:

http://www.gamla.org.il/english/feature/lynch2a.htm

I don't see any peace or justice in this picture; do you? Heck, if you give the three lynchers sheets and hoods instead of face scarves (and a burning cross in the background), it would be just like the bad old days in the Southern U.S. but multiplied dozens of times over. The one with what looks like a hangman's noose adds considerably to the visual image of a KKK "Negro necktie party" considerably. Is this how the Palestine Solidarity Movement defines "peace and justice? Martin Luther King might disagree.

Now the Gaza Strip is under the rule of a Foreign Terrorist Organization as defined by the U.S. State Department. When you look at this picture, "Zionist" rule doesn't look quite as bad, does it?

15. Jasper said:

Charlotte, don't bother. This is a no-name blog where only hardcore Zionists preach to the choir. No one pays it any real attention. In fact, they're even having a hard time getting any of their readers to vote for it on the 2005 Israel blog awards. Bill Levinson is just another computer techie Lee Kaplan wannabe. Perhaps when he finds his own niche in the Zio-fascist world, he'll think of something more interesting to write about. Until then, hooray for Levinson - his lies keep me laughing all throughout the work day.

Bill - keep it up. Seriously. You have no idea how much your lies marginalize the Israeli side of the conflict...

16. Mike Gormez said:

@Voltaire's Child.

Stop your silliness. Scientology calls itself Scientology. The books Scientology sells are tittered Scientology, and the internal structure is called Scientology.

For example their biggest PR book is called "What is Scientology?" and not "What is Church of Scientology?"
http://scncatalog.scientology.net/OA_HTML/ibeCCtpItmDspRte.jsp?section=10322&item=2205

If non Scientology customers do not want to be tarnished with the Scientology brush then they'll have to find a new name to distance themselves but stop your revisionist propaganda.

re Christian and Jessica's, I agree, they appear to be fools. Further I agree with you that Charlotte can involve herself in any political cause she chooses.

17. Kevin Owen said:

Charlotte Kates writes. I know almost nothing about Scientology but the Palestine Solidarity Movement is a hate cult that uses mind control tactics.

The above statement says it all. Charlotte Kate already states that she knows nothing about the subject but then compares it to something else and has gone on to advise people about it

Is that a sign of someone stupid or just ignorant of any facts. Even worst it could be someone acting on false information and therefore spreading propoganda. I would say it was the later. Anyone that listens to someone that openly states they know nothing about something would have to be very unwise as well

What Dianetics and Scientology does is free up the Soul and Mind so that a person can think for himself. Once this is acheived one can't then control the person, as his ability to look and make his own mind up has improved, so he can no longer be hypnotized or controled. When this is acheived on a world wide scale we will have a saner and safer world.

Improving Life in a Troubled World
http://www.scientology.org/cp97/course/pe/page02.htm

I would suggest that Charlotte get some basic facts about Dianetics and Scientology.

http://www.rehabilitatenz.co.nz

The Non Religious Community Based Programs are also valuble in improving society

http://www.rehabnz.co.nz

18. Melynda said:

Kevin,

The article was written by Bill Levinson.

The person who says he knows nothing is named Bill Levinson.

He's writing about a person named Charlotte Kates.

19. Leonard said:

So its seems Charlotte that not only do you not know much about Scientology - you don't seem to know much about the Middle East conflict either.
May I suggest that you get a hobby or some other pursuit to occupy your time & stop following what might appear to you at the moment to be a fashionable fad.

Hamas is a serious terror organisation - Its NOT for beginners !

20. Mike Gormez said:

Yeah, Scientology frees up the person. So much so that more than a few have died under very peculiar circumstances.

I never new a person could drown in his bathtub without getting his head under water, but in Scientology one can:

http://www.whyaretheydead.net

21. David Barrington said:

Palestinians and Israeli's (as well as religious, government and social leades of many countries) have thanked Scientology and endorsed Hubbard's The Way to Happiness campaign. Details at: http://twth.org/news-n-c-s-america.html -- Scientology is attacked for the primary reason that it has disclosed (and continues to make known) the crimes of powerful vested interests, including the death of more than 1,000,000 Americans in psych facilities and the murder by forced restraint of more than 159 children.

Details at www.drexun.org.

22. Mike Gormez said:

David, you live in a fantasy world if you think anyone can kill a million people and not be brought to justice.

Yes, I know you lot hate the medial profession of psychiatry. And I also know why; Hubbard pleaded for psychatric for help and he didn't receive it. Ever after that and being laughed at for his drive in Dianetics, he declared to take over ever aspect of mental health for monetary reasons. And that is why the cult has to groom you and yours in a nice little hating puppy. You can find the docs here: http://psychassualt.org/

Further, do you think christians and muslims have heard Hubbard in his own voice disparaging their religion? I don't think so!.. Like How Hubbard tells that the "entirety of Roman Catholicism" is an alien mind implant or how the muslim prophet Muhammed was a "small-town booster in eh Kansas, Middle-East, or something of the sort."
http://www.ami.com.au/~bradw/cos/Sounds/index.html

Regards,

Mike Gormez

www.Stop-WISE.biz

23. David Barrington said:

Yes, Mike -- in fact killing people and getting away with it exactly the problem. The total dead in psych facilities, listed year-by-year is in a PDF on www.drexun.org. Killing paid for by our taxes called "treatment" includes electric shock, insulin convulsive "therapy," lobotomies, forced restraint, "deep sleep therapy" -- not including other barbaric treatments. Separately, L Ron Hubbard most definitely acknowledged the great spiritual leaders of the past --including Jesus and Mohammed. One example is in his lecture "Hope of Man" -- an excerpt is accessed from a link on the homepage of my website. There is a difference between the profound teachings of Jesus and Mohammed and the "practice" of their religions that developed after their departure. As an example, with Christianity, there were many changes and practices and added "beliefs" that were incorporated within Christianity for the purpose of becoming more acceptable to non-Christian societies as well as to be able to exert greater control over people's lives.

Summary: (1)More than 1Million Americans died undergoing "treatment" in psych facilities. (2) Hubbard definitely acknowledged the importance of the great religious leaders.

For details: www.drexun.org