 |
 |
 |
The Bible and Free Speech
Trackback Pings
TrackBack URL for this entry:
http://www.israpundit.com/mt-tb.cgi/12058
Comments
1
.
Leonard
said:
Pat Robertson has demonstrated humility in his letter to Sharons son where he expresses regret & remorse for the remark which he accepts was inappropriate and insensitive at this particular time. As far as I am concerned that chapter is closed.
Posted by: Leonard on January 15, 2006 08:34 AM
2
.
BobW
said:
I'm a deist but not beyond this. If second and third parties call me an atheist, I'd offer no argument.
There is another dimension to the Pat Robertson controversy. Note that GOI didn't complain too much when Pat Robertson publically said Venezuela's Hugo Chavez shouldn't be around. Recall that Senor Fidel Castro called Pat Robinson a terrorist.
GOI has again aligned itself on the losing side.
Pat Robinson sought to build a "Christian Heritage Center" - based on Robinson's theological interpretations - in the Galalee. GOI's Tourism Minister (Wasn't a Tourism Minister recently murdered by the barbarians?) Abraham Hirshon gave orders to "stop all contact" with groups affiliated with Pat Robinson.
My Israeli friends tell me the Galalee is loaded with Arabs. Now, put 2 and 2 together and look at how GOI positioned itself. What will be used to fill the void to preclude an increased barbarian presence in the Galalee?
To comply with Ruth Matar's request, I'd select 5.Other. In lieu of Job 3, my entry would be:
Lamentations 5:2-9
Our heritage has passed to aliens,
Our homes to strangers
We have become orphans,fatherless;
Our mothers are like widows,
We must pay to drink our own water,
Obtain our own kindling at a price.
We are hotly pursued;
Exhausted, we are given no rest.
We hold out a hand to Egypt;
To Assyria, for our fill of bread.
Our fathers sinned and are no more;
And we must bear their guilt.
Slaves are ruling over us,
With none to rescue us from them.
We get our bread at the peril of our lives,
Because of the sword of the wilderness.
Recall that Scriptual references have been in use longer than references to Shakespeare.
Kol tuv,
BobW
Posted by: BobW on January 15, 2006 09:16 AM
3
.
Jay Lapidus
said:
"Freedom of speech" does not mean "freedom from tact." Sure, Pat Robertson has a right to express his religious views, but there's a smart way of doing so and a foolish way. Wisdom and tact make the difference between having one's listeners "see the light" and "feel the heat."
Posted by: Jay Lapidus on January 15, 2006 11:01 AM
4
.
Ted Belman
said:
Well put Jay.
I meant to comment that it is insensitve, tactless and abusive to attack someone when he is fighting for his life. There is a time and place for everything.
Posted by: Ted Belman on January 15, 2006 11:42 AM
5
.
shangalla
said:
So let me see--Israel is punishing Robertson for his lack of tact? Why the hell hasn't he got the right to say what he wants in the way that he wants? How come Israel doesn't have a problem with every arab out there saying things dozen times as bad as that?And to top it off Israel--well to be fair it's the idiots that rule that country--decides to punish robertson by taking away 50 million investment away from themselves and untold number of jobs? Also--yeah,let's flip off the only people who actually support us--the damn evangelicals. Great idea. One more step on the road of disproving that pesky steriotype about jews being all that smart.
Posted by: shangalla on January 15, 2006 12:23 PM
6
.
Laura
said:
NO one is questioning Robertson's right to say what he feels, but others have the same right to criticize Robertson. When you make controversial public statements about a leader who is fighting for his life, one shouldn't be surprised at the public outcry.
Posted by: Laura on January 15, 2006 02:36 PM
7
.
Laura
said:
Shangalla I appreciate the support Evangelicals give to Israel, but that does not give them a free pass for everything they say or do; for example harrassing Jews in the Air Force Academy. I personally wasn't bothered by Robertson quoting the bible and I don't believe he was actually suggesting Sharon deserved his illness, but many have interpreted it that way. He should have expected this sort of controversy and refrained from those remarks.
Posted by: Laura on January 15, 2006 03:09 PM
8
.
Bill
said:
Perhaps Mr Sharon had accomplished the purposes that a Higher Power had for him ,in his military and political career. Now a new leader taking his place . Ever ponder the significance of the several new leaders emerging on world stage . Elections in Palestine , will a terrorist be chosen ? New Iranian President bent on starting WW3 , new Pope in the Catholic religion. All will have an effect on future of Isreal . For good or ill , time will tell. I am not a deist or atheist , but a person who has trusted Jesus Christ for salvation . I have no beef against others as long as they don't try to take away my freedoms . Pat Robertson is a poor example of humility and ability to bridal ones tongue . My sympathies to Mr Sharon and his family. I am sure he has done as well as he possibly could as leader in Isreal with the tools that were given him. Bill
Posted by: Bill on January 15, 2006 09:14 PM
9
.
Randy
said:
God knows all. I try not to exercise my judgement upon others as His spokesman. If I see the a party who has a clear life history dedicated to death and evil as Arafat I may be so bold as to speak. As for most of us, we are individuals who have all made many bad decisions, it does not always indicate that we are bad people. Whatever Sharon did, I believe he did by using reasoning thinking it was the best solution. Many great men in the Bible who were loved of God made mistakes and were punished, it did not always mean that they ceased from being great men. Our lives can not always be judged by a few events.
Now should be a time of respect for Sharon and for those who love him and a time to remember the good things he has done. There will be plenty of time latter to consider and learn from mistakes and failures.
I will not attempt to make the determination of God's personal relationship to Sharon or of Sharon's to God. That can only be between the two, I have my own thoughts and my wonderings to ponder alone.
So, for the time, we should refrain from proclaiming that judgement in public discourse.
Posted by: Randy on January 16, 2006 05:36 PM
10
.
John
said:
I do not believe that Pat Robertson is in a position to know what God did or did not do to Sharon. He has no business guessing as to God's doings. The man was elderly. There is a natural plan. Does Mr. Robertson believe that every elderly person who passes away is being punished by God by being struck down? Pat Robertson has always been a little full of himself. Perhaps God was teaching him something with all the negative feedback - although I wouldn't presume to know for sure....
Posted by: John on January 22, 2006 08:08 AM
The Bible and Free Speech
By Ted Belman
When Pat Robertson attributed Sharon's stroke to the wrath of God and quoted from the bible, he was pilloried mercilessly. I thought nothing of the attack on him and thought he was out of line. I had less of a reaction when the Christian Right linked Katrina to Gush Katif though I thought the suggestion, ridiculous.
The letter, printed below, from Ruth Matar gave me much food for thought. I am a secular nationalist. Though I don't believe in the existence of God and don't give any literal credence to its mandates, I do believe that religion as a motivational force in this world cannot be ignored, either as a force behind Islamic expansionism or a force that enabled the Jewish people to survive and to recreate Israel.
I believe that anyone should have the right to criticize any belief system or ideology without being burned at the stake or, in modern parlance, silenced in the name of political correctness. We must defend our right to criticize Christianity as the cause of antisemitism or to critcize Islam as a brutal expansionist religion etc etc. And we must acknowledge the right of anyone, Jew or non Jew, to criticize the tenants of Judaism.
Robertson has every right to quote the bible. There is nothing sinister or outlandish or unacceptable to say someone died or had a stroke because of their sins. We are all entitled to our beliefs. We are entitled to disagree with Robertson's statement either because we think G-d doesn't exist or because we think that G-d would never do such a thing. But there is something unacceptable about denying one's right to claim that as the case.
DOES THE BIBLE HAVE RELEVANCE IN OUR DAY?
LETTER FROM RUTH MATAR (WOMEN IN GREEN) JERUSALEM
On Tuesday, January 10, 2006, Women in Green sent out via email an article entitled: "PAT ROBERTSON: STROKE IS GOD'S WRATH". I want to avoid any misunderstanding that what is said in this article represents the point of view of our organization. We merely tried to highlight the attempt of the biased media to put the Christian leader in an unfavorable light. The Associated Press is controlled by the Saudis. Their bias is, as always, very evident. An example is the following sentence in this article: "Last year, Sharon, a long time hawk and supporter of Jewish settlements IN OCCUPIED PALESTINIAN TERRITORIES changed tack....:" [RM: emphasis is mine.] Our mistake was not to add a short addendum saying that the Associated Press in no way represents our opinion in this matter.
Many articles have been written on the Robertson controversy. The following information is from an article that was written by Jerusalem Post columnist Nathan Guttman, on January 8, 2006, entitled: "EVANGELIST ROBERTSON BLASTED FOR SAYING GOD PUNISHED SHARON".
The following is only a partial list of some very prominent "blasters":
Robertson's spokeswoman Angell Watts, said of the critics who challenged Robertson's remarks: It all boils down to: "How dare Pat Robertson quote the Bible?" This is basically the crux of the whole Robertson controversy.
What was Pat Robertson's sin? His sin was that he dared quote from the Bible, specifically from Chapter 3 of the Hebrew Prophet Joel. What book should a prominent Christian leader quote from, DAS KAPITAL by Karl Marx?
Is Robertson, the only voice in the wilderness, who bases his pronouncements on the Bible? Actually, the Lubavitcher Rabbi, a very prominent spiritual Jewish leader, now deceased, said many years ago pretty much the same thing, concerning the dividing up of the Holy Land, and thereby invoking G-d's wrath.
There is something very disturbing about this: "united assault" of political heavyweights on Pat Robertson, who is one of the most respected leaders of the Evangelical Christian Community. He has always been very supportive of Israel.
There is an incredible headline on the front page of the Jerusalem Post of Wednesday, January 11, 2006. "ISRAEL CANCELS $50. MILLION GALILEE ALLIANCE WITH PM - BASHING EVANGELIST". Israel has cancelled a potential $50. million partnership for a tourist center in the Galilee, with evangelical broadcaster Pat Robertson, in protest at his suggestion that Ariel Sharon's stroke was G-d's punishment for the Gaza pullout. What a punishment for Robertson! He won't be allowed to help raise $50. million dollars in Christian funding! But there is hope! The head of the project did not dismiss the idea of working with Robertson, if he issued an apology. Please, Mr. Robertson, don't apologize for telling the Biblical truth.
Do I personally agree with Pat Robertson? There are many people in Israel who feel that there might be a connection between Sharon's major stroke and his dividing the Land of Israel. Similarly, those people do not believe that it is coincidental that Sharon's massive hemorrhage occurred when the government handed out expulsion orders to the Jews of Hebron. Hebron is the place where our forefathers were buried thousands of years ago. It is the holiest Jewish City after Jerusalem.
Sharon, before his stroke, made it very clear that the Gush Katif expulsion was just the beginning and that Judea and Samaria were next on the chopping block.
Dear friends, I am very anxious to learn how you feel about the relevance of the Bible in our day. Please choose one of the following:
With Blessings and Love for Israel,
Ruth Matar
Posted by Ted Belman at January 15, 2006 07:02 AM