1. BobW said:

Re: "a culture that forces children to literally celebrate death is sick."

The culture isn't sick but rather it being a pre-civilization culture. These people are really barbarians but its not fashionable to say this.

"The modern barbarian...looks at the highly complex modern society and takes it to be a natural object. People think that fruit appears in the grocery store the same way it grows on trees. They don't perceive the highly complex social network that makes it possible. Nor do they appreciate that network's fragility."

JOSE ORTEGA Y GASSET

Norway is relatively easy to handle if and when Israel fields a Jewish government. Put Norway on the back burner along with New Zealand. Both Norway and New Zealand have current governments that are against nuclear ordnance. This issue, when magnified, splits the Atlantic Alliance. When push comes to shove, Norway's Kristin Halvorsen will join New Zealand's Helen Green in political exile.

Norway is the world's 3rd largest oil exporter with Norway's vast excess wealth invested overseas. Norway's population is only 4.6 million. The US needs both the oil to enter the sales pool and the recycled dollars (Oil is priced in $US.)

Israel's economy is a mess but cannot be traced to Norway's economic polices vis a vis Israel. Israel specializes in misallocation of resources. It has a tax code only Commissars could have prepared. Before blaming NATO Norway, look at Histaudrut.

With a Jewish government, Israel will consider if Norway's sardines are competitive enough to even qualify for listing on the import tariffs. Currently, the Yevsetkzia allow the enemies of the Jews to determine the battlefield and order of battle.

Rest assured many western gentiles do not like to pay artifically high prices for oil. Rest assured until Israel fields a Jewish government the same news stories, with different dates, will appear with the exception that GOI is now a member of the International Red Cross.

Kol tuv,
BobW

2. Bill Narvey said:

Omri, discussions of Mid East politics, Israel-Palestinian politics and the pursuit of peace and radical Islam rarely are dispassionate.

Has Sharon's actions pushed the peace process forward? It seems peace is more elusive as ever, given that Israeli concessions have not unexpectedly, been met with only more Palestinian terrorism, lies, demands and greater resolve to not change a thing when it comes to their culture of Jew hatred.

As disgusting as it is that Palestinians, from adults to children dance for joy at the news of Sharon's illness, it is only a symptom of the Palestinian nature and cultural values that are so contrary and antithetical to Western values, which time and again is ignored by America and the rest of the world as they continue to force Israel to make concessions in return for more Palestinian empty promises and lies.

There is nothing in the report of the Palestinian reaction to Sharon's illness that tells us anything we did not know before. As such, the Palestinian reaction to Sharon's illness will either go unnoticed by America and other Western nations or they will again turn a deliberately blind eye to it.

3. cathy said:

Well, with all do respect, I think you guys make yourselves feel better about what your governemnt is doing by telling yourselves that palestinians are not civilized and never will be. Thats pure hypocrisy and for your information, when you invaded Lebanon and occupied it for 17 years making us live in fear everyday and lets not forget bombing us every chance you got as well as the ''kana'' bombing(if you dont know what that is then go educate yourselves and learn how murderous your government is)you were not very civilized either!!...so for the record, taking away someones land, making them live in total humiliation, treating them like animals...I mean how in the world do you expect them to react...oh yes go ahead build some new settlements where my home is and ill just smile back at you...Get over yourselves!! you have caused us more harm, spilled just as much blood as the palestinians have of yours. I lived under your occupation in Lebanon and I know what is was like when we saw 2 month old babies with their heads 5 feet from their tiny bodies because you called it a military ''mistake''...whats odd is that those mistakes were happening every single day!! you use 9/11 to have sympathy from the world but not in one single way is your case similar...al qaida are a bunch of terrorists, fanatics who dont even understand what Islam is about whereas palestinians are defending their land. Mind you, the US has killed relentlessly...im an arab christian and hezbollah is what made your army withdraw from THEIR land not yours because God promised you that land...Give me a break!! You dont even get along amongst yourselves...wake up!! and stop trying to convince yourselves that what your doing is ok and think that if you meant what you promise and gave the palestinians their land and homes back, the ''terrorism'' as you guys call it (its more like self defense) would stop...its sad how the media is always shpwing your victims but never the other side of the story...at least Spielberg explores that in Munich and has the arab characters explain why they are doing that and that it is certainly not because there a bunch of animals...Dont get me wrong...like I said im a christian and do not beleive in violence and I think INNOCENT people are dying on both sides!! you should stop it!!

4. cathy said:

One more thing I forgot to mention...both the plaestinians and the jews have suffered greatly from bloodshed...please we need to stop this...nobody deserves to die when they are innocent...and my heart goes out to Mr. Sharon, he did start with the peace process..
I hope his successor will continue in his steps...you know just to prove you guys wrong that arabs and jews cant get along...thats not true...I have many jewish friends very close one actually...i have worked for a jewish owned company...I think if we put our differences aside and think of the future generations which are today's children...something must be done to stop this ongoing conflict and bloodshed on both sides.

5. Bill Narvey said:

Cathy,

Whoever said, war is hell was not engaging in a meaningless platitude. People get hurt and killed and that includes innocents as well who get in the cross fire.

Israel did not invade Lebanon so many years ago on an unprovoked whim. Living in Lebanon I am sure you know Hezbo'allah was well esconsed in southern Lebanon, being supported by Iran and Syria. You know as well that Hezbo'allah was not blowing kisses at Israel.

You know that immediately on Israel being declared a state in 1948, 5 Arab nations commenced a war with brazenly declared genocidal intentions of killing all the Jews and destroying Israel. You also know that since then there have been 3 more such genocidal wars commenced by the Arabs.

Of those genocidal wars, the 1967 Six day war was started by a pre-emptive strike by Israel. You know however that Israel acted pre-emptively only when it was certain that with the blockade of the Straight of Tehran in the Gulf of Aqaba, the acquiesced in demand for U.N. observers to leave the area, the gathering of various Arab armies in preparation for war and the sounds of genocidal war again filling the airwaves as the Arabs stoked themselves up for what they hoped would be their final solution to rid the Middle East of Jews and Israel.

On claiming that Israel has taken Palestinian land, you know very well that Palestinians are Arabs, redesignated as Palestinians after 1967. You know as well until 1967, Gaza was under Egyptian control and the Egyptians ensured Palestinians lived in sub-human conditions. You know further that the West Bank had been under Jordanian control.

What you are saying is that the Arabs who started their genocidal war to destroy Israel and lost not only the war, but the land they had controlled, should be restored to their original lands which I would remind you is what they gained in their first failed genocidal war of 1948.

You also know that a tactical defensive strategy of Palestinian terrorists is to operate within civilian areas knowing that Israel, unlike themselves, do have great concern about putting innocent civilians at risk and causing them harm.

Living in Lebanon, you must also be aware of the implacable Jew hatred that Palestinians/ Arabs are suckled on from birth and indoctrinated daily with thereafter.

As an informed person, you must know that the Palestinian charter continues to call for the destruction of Israel and further that all promises, first by Arafat and more recently by Abbas to go after terrorists and dismantle the terrorist infrastructure and to no longer teach, disseminate and incite Jew hatred, have been broken, if they were ever intended to be fulfilled in the first place.

You must also know that on the day of the Netanya terrorist murder bombing several weeks ago, Abbas announced he was using part of the Palestinian budget to reward families of suicide bombers and Palestinians imprisoned in Israeli jails. Those Palestinians that have not been released as you well know have Israeli blood on their hands for they too were terrorists who murdered innocent Israelis.

In Israel, one does not hear or read about institutionalized hatred against Palestinians or indeed all Arabs for the simple reason that there is no Israeli or Jewish cultural hatred against them.

You do not read about Israel's defence forces targeting Palestinian civilians, because Israel does not engage in such practices. Sure, sometimes innocent Palestinians do get hurt when Israel specifically targets terrorists, but that does not change the fact that such civilians are not targeted as a matter of policy and practice.

You know of course that Palestinian terrorists as a matter of policy do target Israeli civilians.

And while we are on the subject of innocent civilians, polls are consistently showing that the majority of Palestinians support Hamas and other Palestinian terrorists murdering innocent Israelis. A recent poll found such support at 65%. One can conclude that 65% of Palestinians are hardly innocent civilians.

What I find disturbing about your comments are that you see both Israelis and Palestinians suffering death and harm at the hand of the other, but you ignore all the facts I have mentioned here and which I must assume you know as well as I, and that you are content to draw a moral equivilence between the Palestinians and Israel.

What is it that keeps you from taking into account what you do know about the history of the Israel -Arab/Palestinian wars and prevents you from making informed value judgments on relative moral responsibility between Israel and Palestinians?

Do you not see something terribly wrong with thinking that the Arabs who sought unsuccessfully four times to murder all the Jews and destroy Israel, should be put back to their original situation so that they lose nothing by their immoral actions?

Is it perhaps that you not see anything immoral about the Arabs starting 4 genocidal wars against Israel and that the Palestinians continue to openly dream about the day they will destroy Israel?

Cathy, I really do not understand where you are coming from.

6. cathy said:

Well Bill,
no is the answer to your last question. I never said it was ok to destroy Israel so please don't put words into my mouth. I was being very honest and polite about the way I feel that israelis and arabs should live side by side. As for all your other facts, well no Bill, this may come as a surpise to you but arabs do not feed their young kids hatred against the jews at ALL. That is a very very big misconception that you have and that you keep telling yourself to justify your tactics. There was actually a documentary abotu a palestinian boy and an israeli boy who met when they were 7 years old and they were both saying how hurt they were about this war and how they wished they could have been able to play with each other, they both were sobbing at the situation and the documentary shows at the end that when they both became teenagers, the plaestinian was wondering why the other boy(avi) wasnt keeping in touch and avi wanted to but his family forbidded him telling him exactley what you told me that arabs hate us and they are taught that ever since they are little and he was trying to convince them that it is not true that the plaestinian family treated him very well. Did you also forget about CNN's documentary of the israeli man and palestinian woman who got engaged and the israeli went on CNN to say that he lived with palestinians and that he wanted to tell all israelis that its not true what his family has told him since he was a young boy that palestinians hate the jews....oh and what happened after that? you boycotted CNN...why? because it is reporting an honest story..and just to answer quickly, a jewish state was promised by Britan in palestine thats how the state was created in the first place...I mean if it was the other way around and the arabs were promised a state in the middle of your homes, wouldn't you fight for it?? so please stop saying that arabs are filled with hate because they are absolutley not..look at the king of jordan...

7. Swoosh said:

That the Palestinian children would behave in this manner is expected because one can't expect much from a civilisation of Neo-Barbarians...i.e Hamas/ Islamic Jihad/ Islam itself....where the Prophet himself sets a precedent for marauding and pillaging Jews. There is nothing in world as 'militant'Islam...Islam is terrorism itself.

Next; Europe....decadence set into Europe around the 1960s and 70s where it(Europa) would shamelessly court Arabs, North Africans, Turks and venomous Communists like Carlos (the Jackal). What does bring the attitude of Europe into perspective is that no one...I repeat NO ONE APPRECIATES CONCESSIONS MADE IN WAR/ TERRORISM AGAINST THE ARABS....except when Europe does (forgotten the Balkan War of the 1990s??)! It is considered a sign of weakness.....maybe Europe will respect Israel only when an Israeli Arab becomes it's Prime Minister!? Is Maj Gen. Amos Yarkoni available?

In short the issue now is whether after the withdrawal from Gaza - Are the settlers adequately physically, socially and psychologically RESETTLED? Hope they are....atleast one less a blemish on Aluf. Sharon. He did the right thing at the wrong time....possibly when the Palestinians did away with Islamic fundamentalism and became more like the Albanians....with about 50% being agnostic then the Palestinians and the world would realise the value of concessions by a severely tormented but DEMOCRATIC JEWISH NATION! The likelihood of Palestinians achieving that possibility....ummm....NEVER.......so withdrawal should've never been done!!

Prayers for a steady recovery....or a peaceful death- Aluf Sharon...

8. Bill Narvey said:

Cathy,

I appreciate your response. I was not trying to put words in your mouth. I gather however that I was wrong to presume that you were aware of those facts and circumstances I noted or at least not all of them.

I am not under any misconception in saying that Palestinians feed Jew hatred to their children and themselves. History, news reports, and interpretations from Arabic to English of a virtual daily stream of Jew hating invective from state controlled Palestinian and Arab media and religious leaders, compels me to such conclusion.

You must be aware that Jews have suffered persecution for no other reason than they are Jews from both Christians and Muslims. The combination of Christian and Muslim based anti-Semitism is a very potent mix of Jew hatred. Israel is being impacted by both anti-Semitic Arab countries including Palestinian society as well as many European nations whose policies are influenced by their anti-Semitism that is barely concealed, if at all.

There are of course some documentaries and human interest stories of an Israeli person or group getting along with a Palestinian person or group, such as you noted. Such stories can be heartwarming and indeed reason to hope.

Such instances however are the rare exception and such rare exceptions do nothing to change the unfortunate fact that anti-Semitism is very much part of the Arab/Palestinian culture and it is being routinely taught, disseminated and incited.

I doubt I will convince you to my views. I do however encourage you to read the wealth of sources easily available in libraries and the internet that can only lead you to the views I have expressed.

I also encourage you to read the articles of Brigitte Gabriel who I believe was originally from Lebanon. Ms. Gabriel gives first hand insight into the Jew hatred she was indoctrinated in as she grew up and which hatred she managed to leave behind when she discovered first by happenstance that Jews do not harbor hatred for Arabs.

9. abu boo said:

Cathy wrote:

Well, with all do respect, I think you guys make yourselves feel better about what your governemnt is doing by telling yourselves that palestinians are not civilized and never will be.

Not my government.

Are the murderers of the Hatuel family civilized? Or the bombers that offed the seder in 2002? Or ... (long list of atrocities)

Is it civilized to compare jews to apes and pigs, to advocate their murder? Is it civilized to celebrate death?

No Cathy it is not. Sometimes the truth really hurts. This is one of those times.

Thats pure hypocrisy and for your information, when you invaded Lebanon and occupied it for 17 years

So... Cathy, why was Lebanon invaded? Was this part of a territorial grab? Or was it to create a buffer zone to prevent terrorists (you know, the ones you appear to be implicitly claiming don't exist by your insistance that the Arabs are civilized) from coming in and performing their brutal acts? This is a rhetorical question of course, the civilized world knows that Lebanon was invaded precisely because the arabs simply could not stop crossing the border and terrorizing the jews.

Terror Cathy, is the sign of an uncivilized group unable to deal in a peaceful or civilized manner with significant problems.

making us live in fear everyday and lets not forget bombing us every chance you got as well as the ''kana'' bombing(if you dont know what that is then go educate yourselves and learn how murderous your government is)you were not very civilized either!!

You were not bombed indisciminantly. You support terrorists, allow them to use your fields, your land, your towns, your people to stage attacks, they damn it, you deserve to be bombed into oblivion. You are as guilty of murder of innocents as the people doing the actual killing. You don't like it? Simple fix. Stop supporting the damned terrorists, stop enabling them.

...so for the record, taking away someones land,

Whose land was taken?

You mean during the invasion of 1948 when 5 Arab armies attempted to take all of the jewish land by forcing the jews into the sea? Or the jewish response to the aggression which beat back the arab armies? Or the palis who rejected the partition plan in 1948 and chose to go to war, and lost?

They lost the land. Get over it. It is done with. It is time to move on with your lives. That the UN and your arab bretheren has not allowed this to happen here (but has everywhere else in the world) has done far more to incite and foster terrorism than anything the jews have ever done.

making them live in total humiliation,

Do you mean the arabs who deny their own bretheren civil rights? Or imigrant status? Or the chance to become productive citizens?

Yeah, that sounds like humilitation. Arabs being humiliated at the hands of Arabs.

Or do you mean that since the jews whupped ass on the aggressors that this humiliated them? Well tough crap. Get over it. Move on. That is so last century.

treating them like animals...

Pardon me? If you behave like an animal, you ought not to complain when you are treated as one. When the palis arrest and convict the killers of the Hatuel family rather than celebrate their murder, then maybe we can move forward.

I mean how in the world do you expect them to react...oh yes go ahead build some new settlements where my home is

Uh... do you mean on the large blocks of unsettled land where no housing exists? This is your home? No.....

and ill just smile back at you...Get over yourselves!! you have caused us more harm, spilled just as much blood as the palestinians have of yours.

No. Wrong. We have defended ourselves against agressors. We have been civil, we have been careful. We have not targetted civilians. We have not shot 9 month old babies in the head.

I lived under your occupation in Lebanon and I know what is was like when we saw 2 month old babies with their heads 5 feet from their tiny bodies because you called it a military ''mistake''...

You live in an area where terrorists are, you need to expect that ordinance is going to rain down on you. You either expel the terrorists or you leave. If you don't you place your families lives in danger.

Israel did and does place more risk on its soldiers lives specifically to prevent civilian deaths than the cowardly terrorists who hide behind mothers with babies.

you use 9/11 to have sympathy from the world but not in one single way is your case similar...al qaida are a bunch of terrorists,

as are the palis ....

fanatics who dont even understand what Islam is about

they claim otherwise, and sadly they appear to be correct. Islam is a religion of war.

whereas palestinians are defending their land.

Damn it NO!!! They rejected the partition plan. They rejected land. They caused an invasion and a war that they lost. They were aggressors who lost the land in a war of aggression. Get over it. Its done with. This will not change.

Mind you, the US has killed relentlessly...im an arab christian and hezbollah is what made your army withdraw from THEIR land

Nope. It was a weak minded politician. We are still paying for his stupidity. We won't make that mistake again.

not yours because God promised you that land...Give me a break!!

When you start talking facts and not propaganda, sure.

You dont even get along amongst yourselves...wake up!!

So what? We don't go offing ourselves and our enemies. We don't blow up car bombs in Tel Aviv like they do in Iraq. Jews don't purposefully murder other jews (or arabs for that matter). This is so different than the Arabs. Just look at Iraq.

and stop trying to convince yourselves that what your doing is ok and think that if you meant what you promise and gave the palestinians their land and homes back, the ''terrorism'' as you guys call it (its more like self defense) would stop...

Yeah... like it did in Gaza?

its sad how the media is always shpwing your victims but never the other side of the story...

Might this be because your people are whacking civilians, while the jews are whacking terrorists?

at least Spielberg explores that in Munich and has the arab characters explain why they are doing that and that it is certainly not because there a bunch of animals...Dont get me wrong...like I said im a christian and do not beleive in violence and I think INNOCENT people are dying on both sides!! you should stop it!!

The jews have been ready to stop violence since day one. All the arabs need to do is to stop terror.

Both of us know this will never happen. When it does there will be peace.

10. Leonard said:

Cathy - you claim to be an arab christian who was in Southern Lebanon during the Israeli presence - yet you identify strongly with the terrorist groups of Hizbollah and the Palestinians who not only were responsible for the Lebanese civil war that resulted in the loss of close to 200,ooo lives but ended up with the Syrian occupation of Lebanon and the presence of their proxies Hizzbollah or party of G-D in the South. The Palestinains created a mini-state in Soputhern Lebanon called "Fatah Land " which they used to fire over 20,000 rockets into Israel's northern towns resulting in the Israeli incursion in 1982. The Palestinains also carried out a massacre of over 10,000 Christians in the town of Damour. When Israel abandoned their 5 kilometre deep enclave along their border they also abandonned 100,000 christians to Hizbollah who had previously sought Israeli protection.

The palestinian children are being brainwashed at school , in their mosques and through their media to glorify suicide bombers and to desire the destruction of Israel. If you don't believe me I suggest you look up the website MEMRI TV which shows you palestinian tv broadcasts and sermons, unless you choose to be wilfully blind to reality. Why do you think that Hamas is winning 77% of the vote in elections held in Jenin and Hebron. Israel has demonstrated time and time again that it is willing to make concessions for peace - but sadly this is not being reciprocated. No peace movement exists in the arab world.

11. leonard said:

Cathy - I suggest you look up the massacre of the christians of Damour by Arafats PLO a town of 25,000 Christians that was completed over a two week period in 1976, although as a christian from lebanon you should be familiar with it. Perhaps you'll begin to recognise that Israel is not Lebanons problem - far from it. Look at the implication of Syria in the assassination of President Harriri ? Had both Christian Gemayel brothers not been assasinated - you would probably be looking at a prosperous Lebanon today free of Syrian control and their terrorist supporters of Hizbollah & PLFP.

12. radiorote said:

Kristin Halvorsen and her Trondheim twits are not representitive of the stance taken by the Norwegian governmentwho oppose the immature and reprehensible boycott made by those miscreants of malcontent.