Who Will Remember the Palestinians?
Israel should relocate the Palestinians from Gaza and the West Bank to the Arab world
by Bill Levinson
The Palestinians are, by Arab design, an open wound in Israel’s body that the Arabs and their left-wing enablers deliberately keep open to bleed Israel dry no matter how many years it takes. Israel needs to close this wound by removing a good two out of three Palestinians from the West Bank and the Gaza Strip, with the minority that is willing and able to live in peace being allowed and even encouraged to remain.
Most of the world already falsely accuses Israel of ethnic cleansing and other atrocities. If the world is going to punish you unjustly for something you didn’t do, you may as well do that something and it is past time for Israel to take off the gloves. Ethnic cleansing or even genocide is a crime against humanity only if you end up on the losing side. Hitler was unfortunately right when he said, “Who remembers the Armenians?” and it is telling that Abraham Foxman’s Anti-Defamation League, a group that should have been foremost in the exposure and denunciation of genocide, recently did its best to get the world to forget the Armenians. This shows that expulsion of the Palestinians should be practical; more importantly, expulsion or deportation of an ethnic group to protect one’s citizens against an ongoing litany of mindless violence from the group in question is not a crime against humanity or anybody else, just as it is not a crime to disable or even kill another human being to stop him from killing you or somebody for whose safety you are responsible.
- Genghis Khan led millions of women and children to slaughter—with premeditation and a happy heart. History sees in him solely the founder of a state. It’s a matter of indifference to me what a weak western European civilization will say about me. I have issued the command—and I’ll have anybody who utters but one word of criticism executed by a firing squad—that our war aim does not consist in reaching certain lines, but in the physical destruction of the enemy. Accordingly, I have placed my death-head formation in readiness—for the present only in the East—with orders to them to send to death mercilessly and without compassion, men, women, and children of Polish derivation and language. Only thus shall we gain the living space (Lebensraum) which we need. Who, after all, speaks to-day of the annihilation of the Armenians?
Well, Abraham Foxman of the ADL certainly did not want Congress to speak of the annihilation of the Armenians lest it offend Israel’s “ally” Turkey. (How did that work out for you, Abe?) There are meanwhile statues of Genghis Khan in modern Mongolia, so the unpleasant truth is that mass murder and even genocide are crimes against humanity only if you lose. The Nazis were punished at Nuremberg only because they were on the losing side. General Tomoyuki Yamashita was executed because of atrocities some of his soldiers committed without his approval or even his knowledge, but Soviet generals who allowed their men to rape German women were never held accountable–nor was the Soviet Union ever held accountable for its unprovoked invasions of Poland and Finland.
To put matters in perspective, the Nazis murdered about 10 million people because of who they were (Jews, Slavs, Gypsies, homosexuals) or what they believed (Jehovah’s Witnesses, White Rose Society). Joseph Stalin murdered seven million people because of who they were (Ukrainians, Poles) and more than ten million others because of what they believed, and he was never called to account for his crimes because he was on the winning side. A new Russian textbook, in fact, seeks to justify Stalin’s killings. Mao Tse Tung meanwhile killed 20 million or so Chinese, and nothing happened to him as a result.
More recently, Cambodian mass murderer Pol Pot died of old age, while Idi Amin Dada reputedly died of venereal disease as opposed to the hangman’s rope. North Korea recently murdered South Koreans with a blatant act of war, and the United Nations did nothing because China wanted it to do nothing. Iran routinely stones people, mostly women, to death for crimes such as “adultery” (which includes being a rape victim) and “world opinion” says nothing and does even less. Iran also kidnapped three American citizens in a blatant act of war, and released one (Sarah Shourd) only after receiving half a million dollars in ransom: the modus operandi of the Barbary Pirates. Russia on the other hand just applied Rule 303 to Somali pirates who attacked a Russian ship, and the world did not say much about that either. That is a hint to Israel on how it should handle terrorists.
Even more recently, it was revealed that Henry Kissinger said “”And if they put Jews into gas chambers in the Soviet Union, it is not an American concern. Maybe a humanitarian concern.” Why should this come as a shock or a surprise? The sainted Franklin Delano Roosevelt (God the Father to the National “Jewish” “Democratic” Council) did not think it an American concern when the Soviet Union starved seven million Ukrainians to death, and he himself put Japanese-American citizens into concentration camps. Little was said and less was done when Saddam Hussein used poison gas against the Kurds. How did the world community “punish” Iran for hanging Baha’i s and stoning women to death? It gave Iran a seat on the United Nations’ Human Rights Council. Libya also suffered no consequences for holding several Bulgarian nurses hostage and threatening to shoot them.
As of this very day, Mainland China’s perversion of medical science–specifically the blood typing of political prisoners to facilitate the harvesting of their organs for China’s rulers and perhaps anybody who has enough money to buy a transplant organ–is as bad as anything the Nazi “doctor” Joseph Mengele ever did. China is a member of the UN Security Council, and again the world says very little and does even less.
If the Arabs succeed in wiping Israel off the map, they will not be punished by any Nuremberg court or any other agency; the only punishment they fear involves the consequences of failure. These consequences were not sufficiently severe in 1948, 1956, or 1967 to act as a deterrent. The other side of this coin is, however, that Israel can probably get away with simply removing the Palestinians in a relatively humane matter.
As an example, Israel could pack the Palestinians onto ships with whatever they can carry on their backs plus some money in the currency of whatever country to which they are to be sent. A “reverse Gaza flotilla” could drop them off in Turkey, which seems to like them and would doubtlessly be happy to accept a couple of hundred thousand of them. Saudi Arabia should be more than willing to extend Arab hospitality to another few hundred thousand fellow Muslims, and so on. This would remove the open sore that Israel’s enemies are currently using to bleed it dry, and are using an excuse for violence against Israel–much as Hitler used the Sudeten Germans to justify his attacks on Czechoslovakia.
The bottom line is that the Athenians’ observation in Thucydides’ Melian Dialogue is correct: “You know as well as we do that right, as the world goes, is only in question between equals in power, while the strong do what they can and the weak suffer what they must.” The fact that everybody knows about Athens while very few know about the Melians is yet another example of Hitler’s observation about the Armenians. Or, as a German proverb puts it, you must be either the hammer or the anvil; if you don’t do the beating, you will be beaten.
It is past time for Israel to become the hammer so it will no longer be the anvil. Israel must use its physical power to do what it can to protect its safety and security; the Palestinians, having chosen collectively to take the path of violence and hatred, will have to suffer what they must. If Israel fails in the basic duty of a sovereign state to protect its citizens and its own existence, a future Adolf Hitler may say, “Who remembers Israel?” and he will be just as correct as the original Hitler was about the Armenians. It is better that future historians say instead, “Who remembers the Palestinians?”
You’re talking my language and thinking my thoughts, Bill.
Arnold Harris
Mount Horeb WI
Its a fine line. If it could be done they should just be deported back to Jordan. We know that cant be done. Only heaven knows why but its a nice thought. One thing I disagree with is Jews laying guilt trips on each other because they arent observant enough or because they havent returned to the homeland. We need to unite as a people first then take it from there.
Stop!!! The job of the Jews is to bring the ideas of morality to the rest of the world. To follow this advice is to lose our place in the world. As temporarily satisfying as it is, it simply isn’t worth it.
Joe5348
Never going to happen, sir. Israel’s 150+ nuclear weapons stockpile ensures the continuation of the state of Israel.
How about this Congressman way back when: http://myrightword.blogspot.com/2010/12/on-arabs-in-palestine.html
Not sure if this is realistically achievable.
A more modest measure would be to turn Gaza over to Egypt and parts of the West Bank over to Jordan, combined with a multi-billion dollar baby sitting fee. Both have security services and sufficient military assets to effectively suppress the “militant” Palestinians and the additional assets would permit expansion of such capacity.
This would end the option of a “Palestinian State”; an approach that has already failed. I recognize concerns about destablization of Egypt and Jordan, but sufficient resources and official disinterest in the means by which pacification is achieved could mitigate that. Angry ‘human rights’ activists would be far less able to gain traction against non-Jewish states. And a carrot/stick approach with the Palestinians themselves just might pay off in marginalizing the worst of them over the long term.
For fifty years, the Euroleft and others have provided welfare payments to the Palestinians in exchange for terrorism and warfare against Israel. This is the dynamic that must be ended. Would they be as likely to pay Pales to attack Jordan and Egypt?
And thanks to Israpundit for coming out and saying what a lot of us have been thinking.
I think it could be done if circumstances are just right. If another war breaks out between Lebanon and/or Syria, the aftermath, especially if Israel puts a woopin on them, the movement could happen then. It would be expediant that Israel totally and completelycontrol not only aza, but also Judea and Samaria.
Mer, why should the guilt trips bother you? As long as it is done in the spirit of love and trying to help rather than in anger, its the least we can do for each other. Its when we look the other way and stop caring that we are in serious straights. (yes, I know its not always done properly – but its better than not caring at all)
Follow the Torah commandment and encircle them on 3 sides and leave the 4th side open for them to flee. Jordan and Egypt would receive them or decide that they wanted a piece of the action also. Its not like we have a true ally in either of those 2 countries. Jordan is already hedging toward the Iranian side as we speak.
Mer,
Who exactly is it who “knows it can’t be done”, rather to departing Arabs from Yehuda, Shomron and even Jerusalem back to Trans-Jordan?
Anything can be done, if the doer has mustered the willpower, focus of purpose, and, in this case, has the armed force to back up their decision.
Even Binyamin Netanyahu — he of the mighty promises and compromised follow-through, has learned that Israel can successfully tell the a president of the United States such as Barack Hussein Obama that Israel is not a department of the US government to be ordered around by this country’s chief of state.
If you are old enough, you may recall that immediately following the Six Day War in June 1967, some quarter-million Arabs were evacuated within weeks from Yehuda and Shomron into Trans-Jordan across the smashed King Abdullah bridge across the Jordan River. In fact, Israel could have emptied out the whole Arab population merely by militarily taking control of the other side of the river and moving them there, another quarter-million at a time. As I recall at the time, would not have involved too many transport shifts. Likewise, the entire Gaza Arab population, including those parked in the UNO’s UNRWA-managed permanent refugee camps, could have been rapidly trucked from there, across the Sinai and parked either along the Suez Canal, or Israel could simply have crossed the canal and transported them to the other side. All those people would then have become a problem for Trans-Jordan and Egypt respectively, and no longer Israel’s headache. That precisely is what I would have done, along with taking and keeping control over the southernmost part of Lebanon south of the Litani River gorge.
Then I would have told Egypt, Jordan, Lebanon, the UNO, and the whole world the following:
“You all have declared a state of war against Israel, and have promised one another you would never negotiate peace with us and never recognize us as a state representing the worldwide Jewish nation. You plainly fomented this latest struggle, which, equally plainly, you have spectacularly lost.”
“There is a price to be paid by states that maintain a state of war against a neighboring country, then foment active combat based on that policy, then lose the war. You are now paying that price. Nor will there ever be any return to the temporary cease fire lines of 1949 that you have continually violated. As is our right in a victorious war, we are moving those ceasefire lines, and we will unilaterally harden them into new borders of the the Jewish state.”
“And that is a situation that is too late for you to negotiate. Make peace with now on the new borders that your endless war against us accomplished for us. Because if there is renewed fighting later, and if our armed forces can accomplish again what they have repeatedly accomplished in the past, you will once again lose more territory, and that too will be lost on a permanent basis. Because there is a revitalized and restored new Jewish nation in this region now and forever. And we never again will allow to treat us as djimmis without rights. You have just witnessed in six days what we can accomplish against our enemies when need arises. Make peace now, while you can do so at relatively little cost. And set about the work of resettling these local Arabs whom you have repeatedly fomented to attack our homes and villages. Exactly as we resettled almost a million Jews from the various Arab states who came here 19 years ago upon our assumption of independence. We will take care of our people; you will do the same for yours. Because not a one of them ever will set foot in our country again without a status of peace between us and all of you, and then only as temporary visitors with appropriate visas.”
Arnold Harris
Mount Horeb WI
Arnold Harris, your hired! OF COARSE it could be done but the decision makers seem reluctant. The alternatives ARE definite suicide. There would have to be pressure from Jews inside and outside of Israel on the Israeli government. We would have to be prepared for the backlash. The IDF would then have to have a mission to destroy hamas. Ready? Set. Fire. I really cant think of any other plausible solution. Stay vigilant.
The solution to the problem is to support the PLO economically and militarily in their effort to liberate Jordan from the Hashemite occupants. The PLO part of the deal must be to collect their Arab brethren with all their belongings and move them across the river. It is a tragedy that Israel did not support Arafat when he tried to do this.
I don’t agree with this article at all.
Israel, for all her military power and robust economy, etc,. in proportion to her size, is STILL a small country very much dependent on trade with the outside world. That would be true for any small country, no matter how successful.
In the present world political environment, any attempt to do as Mr. Levinson suggests would result in a “fast track” to complete international pariah status, a la Rhodesia of the 1970s. Perhaps, in the long run, Israel MAY be able to “tough it out” and perservere, but this is a very, very big risk, and not necessary.
One thing we need to learn from our Arab enemies – and even from our own long term historical experience as Jews – is PATIENCE.
That said, some threats may not be dealt with “patiently”, such as Iran. But as for the Palis, there is a much better “low risk” solution. It would take time and persistence, but I submit it could work much better than what Mr. Levinson suggests.
First, we – by “we” I mean ANYONE who is advocating for Israel, from within or without, Jew or Gentile, must all uncompromisingly unite around ONE demand of the PA: RECOGNITION OF ISRAEL AS THE HOMELAND OF THE JEWISH PEOPLE.
They CAN’T call our bluff. They are doctrinally incapable of this.
Their refusal to do this can easily be transformed into leverage for what I call “counter-delegitimization”. In other words, we promote the perfectly sensible paradigm in the court of public opinion that, if they aren’t recognizing Israel as the state of the Jews, then neither Israel nor anyone purpoting to be her ally, or evevn beyond that, any civilized government, should recognize the PA or any of their constituent parts as the standard bearers of Palestinian national aspirations.
From there it is a very short line – by default – towards gaining broad acceptance for the notion of Jordan as the true homeland of the Palestinians.
So, what about the monarchy? Just a minor tweaking of Bush 43′s “freedom agenda” is all that is needed, in this case applied in the form of pressure on Jordan to engage in democratic reforms that allow the monarchy to remain in a ceremonial context, but with real power in the hands of a democratic government, a la Britain, Sweden, Japan, etc., etc. Since 92% of Jordanians are Palestinian (this according to a Palestinian Jordanian democracy activist with whom I am acquainted), voila, you have your Palestinian homeland, de jure as well as de facto. The PA is rendered irrelevant (well, probably not without a firefight, but within the context of the broader campaign outlined above, now they don’t get nearly as much sympathy as they obviously would in Mr. Levinson’s scenario, which means a much smaller firefight than he’d get; the timing must be right….we can’t do this next week, but give it a few years plus the right person in the Oval Office in charge to run interference in the UN….).
Gaza returns to Egyptian control per pre-’67 arrangements (seems like “pre-67 borders” is quite the mantra for the Western liberals, how about we turn this slogan on Egypt?)
When Jordan becomes Palestine, this happens as part of a deal whereby J&S is split between Israel and Jordan on contiguous terms, but remains a DMZ “buffer” between them. NO international forces are introduced. Neither side deploys more than police forces, who have joint patrols until things “calm down”. Failure to control terrorists is grounds for war.
Some may object, “Jordan (the monarchy) doesn’t want to do this, and they are our best Arab allies, we shouldn’t alienate them”, and “Egypt doesn’t want to do this; Begin implored Sadat to take Gaza at Camp David, but Sadat refused”, blah blah blah.
Briefly, the U.S. has GREAT leverage over Egypt and Jordan; both are basket case economies greatly dependent on U.S. aid. Funny how it is perfectly OK in many quarters of polite company to suggest that we “twist Israel’s arm” to make them do things THEY don’t want to do (you know, “tough love” among “allies”…never applied anywhere else to genuine allies…), but as soon as someone suggests that Arabs be asked to do something THEY don’t want to do, then the fact of them “not wanting to do it” is the end of the discussion. BULLSHIT. We have to call this hypocrisy out for what it is. And both Jordan and Egypt are pretty shitty as allies, anyway, in objective terms. They need us a hell of a lot more than we need them. Bottom line: I believe they can indeed be “persuaded” as I recommend above.
NOBODY has to move anywhere. No “ethnic cleansing” needed. Everybody can stay right where they are; the most they would have to do is change identity papers. If, for example, Palestinians in Gaza don’t want to become Egyptian nationals, then they can move to their “homeland” in Jordan, about as arduous a requirement as someone relocating from Detroit to Chicago for a job opportunity….not like us Jews who often have to go halfway around the world if we want to be in our homeland!
Some may object that a “democratic” Jordan-as-Palestine would elect a radical Hamas-style government that would go to war with Israel. That may be the sentiment of many Jordanians, but once they ARE Jordan, and not some non-state actor (e.g., Hezbollah, Hamas), they can’t hide behind the skirt of some other state. They ARE the state, and they are held accountable as such for their actions. Which means that if they want to throw the Jordanian military at Israel, we are talking a shooting war between uniformed military organizations….that is to say, Israel’s kind of war. The gloves are off. Jordan-as-Palestine gets their asses kicked, Israel then really can annex the whole of J&S, and now won’t have to say they’re sorry, since they can no longer be accused of “depriving” the “poor oppressed Palestinians” of a homeland. They already have Jordan…which is now a tad smaller due to their aggression. With this in mind, I’d bet Jordan-as-Palestine would behave themselves…but even if they don’t, Israel wins anyway, in a much better international political/PR environment than she faces right now.
SO, going in and bashing heads “right now” as Mr. Levinson suggests may sound satisfying to those of us who are frustrated with the way things are going. Well, we’re all pretty frustrated here, but rash actions of the type suggested by Mr. Levinson are both unrealistic and dangerous.
Winning is not one of the options. It is the only option.
The islamics openly declare the intent and actively try to destroy our country and people and most, (actually all), remain in a state of war against Israel. That includes of course, the so called “palestineans”.
As one of the comentators above concludes, those that declared and maintain a state of war must internalize the consequences. Naturally they did that expecting to win and send our people out or kill us all but so far completely lost. The islamic population in Yehuda & Shomron has had ample opportunities to enter into true peace negotiations. They have refused that and attacked us in response.
It is time to assure that they absorb the full consequences and that is our option to return to their original states all of those that migrated into Yesh and the rest of Eretz Israel.
I am completely convinced that if Israel would offer them to either accept our terms and limits or be deported, they would carefully consider the former.
If not… so be it. Plan “B”.
It’s an obvious solution. Clean. Clear. Simple. Cheap. And effective.
The only questions are “When?” And if not now, “Why not now?”
I say, the sooner the better.
Keep Judea and Samaria, Gush Katif (“Gaza”), and the Golan Heights.
No more “land for peace.” Peace for peace.
And what other victorious nation ever begged the losers for peace?
Enough with these so-called “Jewish” leaders who compete with each other to gain the favor of
gentiles.
It’s time for Jews to act like every other people on earth, stand up for your rights, and take no crap from anyone!
Does not the Jewish Scriptures describe acts of genocide which were ordered by God?
Other than the total decimation of Amalekites wherever they may be (I’ve not heard of a positive ID on one since the time of the Talmud), the 7 Canaanite nations could up and leave. It was their choice.
All the technical details are irrelavant.
It is either us or them, and not just in the “territories”, but in Israel proper
the Arabs pose a huge demografic problem.
They all must go! It would be a breath of fresh air if Israel
did what it needed to survive, and not listen to
World opinion pontificate about the myth of”opressed Palestinians”.
Our best weapon is to stop feeling guilty
for surviving.
It’s true that having smaller number of Palestinians in Israel would increase Israel’s security. However, the world would never allow it despite the fact that it would allow the destruction of Israel and expulsion of Jews as it did so many times in the past. For that reason, if not from a moral point of view, to contemplate such a solution is futile and not good for Israel’s PR. Also, it is much easier to write about it in an article and make it appear clean and surgical. A real attempt would be quite bloody and would mark Israel and Jews for centuries. In addition, such an attempt would destroy any possibility of reconciliation with Israel’s neighbors.
Great discussion, and if we all agreed, we wouldn’t be Jewish, would we? Maybe returning the Sinai was ENOUGH “withdrawing to secure borders,” eh? If only Israel would annex Yesha and even Gaza, leaving a backdoor turnstile that only goes OUT for terrorists… Then there’s Martin’s proposal for financial incentives for law-abiding Palestinians who prefer to leave… Palestinians open to peaceful coexistence would be… well, peaceful.
But all of this is unrealistic because the basic problem is not where Palestinians can live safely and happily in a society with like [Muslim] beliefs. The basic problem is that the Arabs cannot stand to see Jews in one inch of their [Jewish] ancestral, historical,and present land–including not only the Golan, Yesha, and Gaza, but Jerusalem, Haifa, Tel Aviv, etc. The basic problem is NOT logistics, it’s Islam-inspired hatred.
Genocide and ethnic cleansing are not the same. “Ethnic” cleansing in spite of all the lofty declarations is never punished. The majority of all countries exist in the present form because of the past ethnic cleansing. This of course includes all the countries of both North and South Americas, Europe, Russia.
The other option commonly used by the nations is forcible killing of the nation by robing the the conquered populations of their languages, religions and history. This is what happened with the whole Muslim world. There is no more Syrian nation, the original Egyptians, are a persecuted minority in their own country. Recently Kuwait cleansed out all of their “Palestinians”.
In short: virtually all of the countries have been created by either expelling, murdering, or forcibly de-nationalizing and converting the local populations.
This article has many correct observation.
The error is to claim that we we can do immoral acts as long as we win.
We are not talking about genocide. We are talking about the population transfer. Since this is the least evil of all realistically available possibilities it is not evil but good.
Re: #15
Indeed they do, but the Hebrews were the aggressors at that time. That is, they were little better or worse than their contemporaries like the Assyrians, Romans, Greeks, and so on whose priests said that God, or their gods, commanded them to smite those who occupied the land the king happened to want.
There is on the other hand such a thing as justifiable genocide, the large-scale counterpart of justifiable homicide. Justifiable genocide is when you are offered a choice between being wiped out as a civilization, race, or society and killing all life on the other side. Genocide is not justifiable if less violent means are available such as disarming the enemy by defeating his armed forces. On the other hand, when the Arabs invaded Israel in 1948 with the stated intention of wiping out all the Jewish inhabitants, Israel would (as long as it looked like the Arabs might succeed) have been justified in using a weapon, had one been available, that would have destroyed all life in Egypt, Syria, and Jordan.
Similarly, during the Second World War, Jews, Poles, or Gypsies would have been justified in using a weapon (including poison in the water supplies or a biological agent) that would have destroyed all life in Germany had that been the only way to stop the Holocaust. Even England, which was not in danger of being wiped out to the last man, woman, and child, seemed willing to destroy all life in Germany, including civilian life, with massive bombing raids such as the firebombing of Dresden. Sir Arthur Harris said that all of Germany was not worth the life of a single British Grenadier, i.e. it was not worth losing even one soldier on the ground to spare Germany from being destroyed by the Royal Air Force. British commanders even dropped the pretense of aiming at military targets such as factories; the idea was to render German workers homeless and thereby destroy civilian morale. In light of what Germany had done to British cities and, during the Blitzkrieg, Polish cities, this is more than understandable.
We meanwhile dropped nuclear weapons on Japan to end the war in the Pacific. A lot of Kumbaya-singers lament that today but, in 1945, no one hated the Bomb; if you had a husband, father, son, or brother in the Pacific, you thanked God for the Bomb because it meant your loved one would not come home in a box or with limbs blown off in a hellhole like Okinawa or Iwo Jima. My father thought he owed his life to the Bomb because he was among the men who would have had to invade Japan if the war had not ended. Only today do we have university professors and the like who say how horrible America was for using the Bomb; that is only because they know that no Japanese soldier is going to use them for bayonet practice or, in the case of the women, force them to become “comfort women” (prostitutes for the Japanese Army).
But the justification in all these cases is “Them or us” as opposed to an alleged order from God. “Them or us,” when “they” force us to make that choice, justifies pretty much anything and everything.
One of the atrocities Israel stands accused of is a “Holocaust” of the Palestinians…
Bill Levinson, to add to the lack of moral compass mix, after WWII the Czechs deported almost 2,000,000 (TWO MILLION) ethnic Germans for their terrible role in the War. Did anyone care? Of course, NOT! This suggestion is nothing but TERRICFIC!
When we use reasoning such as “it worked for Hitler, Stalin, Pol Pot, Idi Amin Dada, Genghis Khan, the Turks, etc. then it can work for us” it puts us in the same category as they are – vile, evil, mad men and mad women. Obviously this writer, and those who support him fall into this same category. You should all be ashamed of yourselves and turn from your wicked thoughts.
While in principle, getting all the Palestinians to willingly leave land that they have lived on for for over 100 years would be ideal (similar to what Lieberman is encouraging). But to force them off in mass at gun point (knowing they will resist to the death) is barbarous.
Re: #22
This is not an error, it is an unpleasant fact that is built into laws of evolution that predate humans.
Those that kill pass their genes on to successive generations, and those that are killed do not. There are of course animals like elephants that do not face the “kill or be killed” choice because they do not need to kill to eat, and they are capable of killing anything that tries to eat them. That is my favored role model, and the national counterpart to the elephant is an industrialized nation that can produce what it needs without having to rob others, and can also produce enough weapons to kill anybody who attacks it.
On the other hand, the Romans committed genocide (Carthage). Were the Romans punished for this act? Far from it; most of Southern Europe speaks languages that are based on Latin while no one speaks Carthaginian (or Phoenician, the language from which Carthaginian evolved). Everybody knows who the Athenians were but who, aside from those who bother to read Thucydides or excerpts from his works, remembers the Melians? Mexicans speak Spanish because the Spaniards, who were their era’s Nazis, won; if the Aztecs had pursued the Conquistadors to the death during the Noche Triste instead of stopping to celebrate, they would still be speaking Aztec. The only reason that anybody remembers the Aztecs (as opposed to the Armenians and Melians) is because most Mexicans have Aztec as well as Spanish ancestors; instead of wiping the Aztecs out and taking their land, the Spaniards enslaved them and, in some cases, interbred with them.
The lesson here is that, from a historical or evolutionary perspective, winning DOES justify anything and everything including genocide. From a moral perspective, or course, there is a huge difference between killing or even displacing an entire group of people to take their land, and killing or displacing them to protect one’s own safety–just as there is a huge legal difference between killing somebody to take his property (murder aggravated by robbery) and killing somebody who is in the act of using armed violence (robbery) in an attempt to take your property. The first will bring a death sentence or a very long prison term, the second is legally justifiable. That is why Israel is 100 percent justified in displacing the Palestinians, who have repeatedly demonstrated their complete unwillingness and inability to live in peace with their neighbors.
Re: #19
Mark Israel and the Jews for centuries? Two centuries ago, the United States displaced Native Americans in the Trail of Tears; Andrew Jackson was among those who did the displacing (and he also killed a man in a duel). How did this mark Jackson’s reputation? We have his portrait on our $20 bill because, even though he was not good for Native Americans or for Spain (whose territory he invaded), he was good for the United States. It’s quite likely that whichever Israeli prime minister does what needs to be done about the Palestinians will have his portrait on Israel’s currency in a few decades.
Turkey’s genocide, as opposed to mere displacement, of the Armenians took place less than a century ago. Abraham Foxman of the ADL was among those who did their best to prove Hitler right about “Who remembers the annihilation of the Armenians?” Has Turkey’s reputation in the international community suffered as a result?
As for reconciling with Israel’s neighbors, oderent dum metuant: let them hate as long as they fear.
All those that think Israel is capable of doing anything it wishes,even if it evokes international wrath, should remember how vulnerable it was when the brush fires broke out in the Mt. Carmel region. Israel required outside help because of a brush fire. Not a 7.0 devastating earthquake, not a tsunami. Israel is not a super power, is quite vulnerable and still quite dependant on the U.S. for military and economic assistance.
Israel is a trading nation and its biggest market is still Europe.
Israel largest export is technology and the like and that sector of the market is coming under constant pressure from the rise of Indian low cost competition.
It is time for some mature realistic thinking. Israel’s status in the world is eroding incrementally and as a result it needs friends more than ever. It is sheer madness thinking that it can go it alone.
Even if the Arabs of Palestine were the most peace loving of peoples we would still have to remove them. Passively if possible or violently if they resist. We cannot be a mix cultured nation with non Jews, that would lead to Americanization, assimilation and the death of Judaism in Israel.
That would defeat our purpose as Jews. We exist as a nation for ends served.
Re: #28
China also is a trading nation. Have Americans stopped buying Chinese-made goods because China blood-types Falun Gong prisoners to harvest their organs whenever a party boss or somebody else with influence needs a transplant? In other words, China can behave like “Dr.” Joseph Mengele with no consequences.
Israel’s status is eroding because its “friends” were never its friends, and they are more interested in appeasing militant “Muslims” than in doing what is right. EU countries that allow militant “Muslims” to rampage through their cities, rape their women, and cut their citizens’ throats are not going to stand up for Israel or even themselves.
The United States, which currently tolerates the kidnapping of three of its citizens in a blatant act of war (Sarah Shourd was recently released for $500,000 in ransom), is unlikely to stand up for Israel. Iran’s government emulated the Barbary Pirates to see whether the U.S. would react as it did to the Barbary Pirates, and we folded. If a man like Theodore Roosevelt or Andrew Jackson were President, this would not have happened because Iran would have known what Jackson or Roosevelt would have done. If George S. Patton Jr. were President, he might well go over there and do it personally. However, Barack Obama is President.
Israel needs to acquire nuclear weapons or, if it already has them, build more–enough to turn the entire Arab and Iranian world into a smoking funeral pyre if necessary. Noting that China and North Korea have brandished their nuclear arsenals for purposes other than self-defense, Japan, South Korea, and Taiwan also need to build a few hundred nukes each. That is the only thing the world’s aggressors understand. Reliance on “friends” (remember how the Czechs relied on England and France?) is not the right way to go.
Actually I believe it’s still The Palestinian Authority or what we call occupied territories which explain in good part Israels lack of motivation is dealing with their violent provocations. Our Businessmen carry a lot of political weight. Don’t kill the goose who lays our profitable golden eggs. Eventually we we need to kill them as they will give us no option.
Exactly, no question.
Think for a minute. Would G-d direct the Jews to the Holy Land without a purpose? No way.
I don’t fear the Arab world as much as I fear the secular progressives Jews who are the real road blocks of the master plan.
Of course, few people remember the tribes who were subjugated first by the Aztecs and then the Spanish.
In the case of the genocide of Amalek, they were justified because they are acting directly pursuant to a divine command from the Lord of Lords and King of Kings. (1 Samuel 15)
This is true.
Of course, under Jewish theology, the order to Saul to slay Amalek was more than just alleged.
In my book, Di Di Daw Daw Di Di, I talk about doing just this, and provide a formula for accomplishing the task. Make the walls already in place mobile, and every time there is an attack, be it from a gun, an intifada riot, a shelling, whatever, move the walls and take an acre of land in response to the attack.
Gunshot for land, shelling for land, riot for land. It’l drive the Arabs nuts (sorry for the oxymoron).
Jeff wrote,
The fact that it worked for Hitler and so on, and currently works for places like China (organ harvesting from political prisoners, every bit as bad as anything Joseph Mengele ever did) does indeed mean it will work for us. As for good versus evil, self-defense on a national scale is no more evil than self-defense on a personal level. If somebody attacks you, or people (e.g. your family) for whose safety you are responsible, you not only have the legal and moral right but also the obligation to kill the attacker if that is what it takes to stop him. My point is not that what Hitler and so on did was in any way right, but rather that if the likes of Stalin, Mao, and so on can get away with premeditated and unprovoked genocide, Israel ought to be able to get away with forced relocation of Palestinians who (unlike the victims of Stalin and so on) initiated and perpetuated a long litany of mindless violence.
The Jews whom Hitler murdered were peaceful German citizens; they were not planting bombs in German movie theaters and churches, killing German Gentiles at random, and saying openly as a community that Germany had no right to exist and ought to be wiped off the map (while colluding with nation-states to make this happen). The Poles whom Hitler and Stalin murdered were minding their own business in Poland, and were not conducting cross-border raids to slaughter German or Russian civilians in their beds. The Jews, Poles, Gypsies, Armenians and so on were not raising their children almost from birth to hate Germans or Turks, nor did they have them role-play suicide bombers.
The Palestinians are, as a collective group as opposed to isolated deranged lone actors (Timothy McVeigh types) doing all these things and can therefore be held collectively responsible. They do have to be expelled, at gunpoint if necessary, to put an end to the ongoing litany of violence THEY have initiated and THEY have perpetuated despite Israel’s best efforts to make peace with them and even aid their economic development. The same goes for the militant “Muslims” in Europe who have said openly that they intend to destroy the societies they infest, replace the prevailing law with Sharia law, rape any woman who does not cover her face, torture Jews to death for sport (as recently happened in France) or cut the throats of Dutch people (e.g. Theo van Gogh). At some point, and probably sooner than later, something will need to be done about them just as something must be done about cancer when it is detected in the human body.
You are so right about that.
Remember that these sand Nazis started with those homicide bombings in Israel, and continued to 9-11.
The problem with this piece is that it relies on examples that are outside the scope of what is considered civilized behavior for a modern (meaning post World War II) western democracy, which is what Israel chooses to exist as. If Israel wants to exist as some third world backwater like Zimbabwe or international pariah like North Korea, then fine, expel the Palestinians. But if Israel wants to be a prosperous nation that maintains good diplomatic relations with most of the globe and is a leader on the world stage … forget it.
And please, don’t make these ridiculous China comparisons. China has 1 billion people, is the world’s second largest economy (and the #1 creditor to the world’s largest) and has the 3rd most feared military on the planet (and is close allies with the 2nd most, Russia). As these facts mean that we can’t ignore China even if we wanted to, then we have made the (very bad in my opinion) decision to benefit from their cheap labor and access to their markets.
But Israel? The international community could diplomatically, militarily, and economically isolate Israel and not cost anyone a thing. No one would even notice the difference (except the Israelis). That’s the difference between Turkey 100 years ago and Israel today. Look, Iraq is a far more populous country sitting on gigantic oil reserves, and you see what was done to them, and I am not talking about the two wars (which were basically waged by just the U.S. and Britain) but decades of crippling U.N. sanctions.
Believing that you can transfer the Palestinian population without suffering severe long term negative consequences is a fantasy.
So Israel should just surrender their country to sand Nazis?
Re: #38
The Russian Empire is not a third world backwater, and the Russians are just as ruthless. Russia is a respected member of the international community.
Fixed
Ah you mean self interested appeasement to every tyranny and evil entity in the world. Unfortunately that will cause the scenario for a global conflagration that will destroy the very civilization and norms you advocate.
Better to be a hated third world backwater less prosperous nation but alive than what you advocate and wind up dead. We refuse to be your sacrificial lamb. If you aren’t happy about our decisions have some sweetened Hemlock,quick and painless.
In a perfect world Israel would have leaders who under certain circumstances would unleash our nukes. Our past leaders nor current leaders have not shown or demonstrated that they have the spine to use them even if we are about to be destroyed Like Golda and Dayan in 73′. If you project to your enemies and friends that those WMD would never under any circumstances be unleashed it hardly matters if we had one or a thousand nukes; they are useless even as a deterrent. Every conflict Israel has had to engage with our enemies since 67′ were initiated by them knowing full well we had a nuclear weapons capability. In the near future a scenario is to hit us first with their nukes thereby destroying our ability to retaliate.
Use them or lose them is what nuclear war is about. He who hesitates is dead. Now we have a second strike capability ( Nuclear armed subs)but who knows what their operational capabilities and targets are.?
The best thing for Israel is to put on for the world a small demonstration of what we can do like nuking a small remote oil field in Iran. Iran but more importantly the west will wake-up to the fact that we have an unstoppable ability to deny them what is most important oil and gas.
More important than destroying some oil capacity we demonstrate what hundreds of burning wells can impact on the world because they won’t be able to distinguish them due to radiation. Then extrapolate tens of thousands of wells and the earth will see the sun in at best six months to a year after the attack. Might destroy 2/3rds of the life on this planet.
The only thing The west America, Russia or China could do to stop us is to give Iran and the Arabs a nuclear umbrella of protection which is a scenario I can see happening later on in any event.
Bottom line Israel has to preempt using nukes to insure our survivability and it’s best we do it to a country important to the West, Russia and China. We should quietly inform them that their capitals and oil fields are targeted as well just in case they decide to retaliate against us.
Obama to Israel: Give up your Nukes!!!!
Israel to Obama: What Nukes?
We ain’ got no Nukes!!!
We just used them all.
Makes a lot of sense. If her enemies know Israel will not use nukes, they become worthless.
As a hawk, I believe a small demonstration may do the trick. I don’t advocate war, I love peace but, in order to preserve peace one must show strength to those who are constantly threatening to destroy you and wipe you off the map.
Why, I found it upsetting when Cast Lead and the 2006 war in Lebanon was halted before the IDF could have put a good licking on Hamas and Hezbollah both determined to destroy and force the Jews out of Israel.
In both cases, Israel had just cause to put theses bastards out of business.
Both claim to be in support of the Palestinians and their quest for statehood. Bull shit, these so called Palestinians are nothing more than Jordanian and other Arab world rejects and are nothing more than an anti-Semitic tool used by the terrorist organizations.
If they want statehood, establish it in Jordan or Egypt or some other Arab nation. The Arab world occupies a large mass of land and I am sure they could find a section to accommodate them.
I do feel sorry for the Palestinians who share the good life and relationship with their Israeli neighbors and could care less about this so called statehood.
Bill Levinson:
Remember what I said about not making ridiculous China comparisons? Well those apply to Russia too. Russia has a very big population, a large land mass, a strong economy, tons of oil and other natural resources, and the world’s #2 military. Russia isn’t respected, they are feared because of their military and economic might. Israel does have nuclear weapons, but beyond that, they are not a military superpower. And economically, Israel simply is not a factor. Russia isn’t respected, they are feared. Try to isolate Russia, and Russia can retaliate by cutting off oil and natural gas supplies to a dozen countries, and sending their well-equipped military in to subjugate another dozen. But isolating Israel can be done rather easily with no real negative consequences, just as it was rather easy to isolate a South African regime that was much more heavily populated and economically important during the 1970s and 1980s.
yamit82:
Again, why do you presume that I hate Israel merely because I disagree with your own political views? However, you did say that it is better to be an international pariah than to be dead. I agree 100%. Israel must deal with their “Palestinian” problem at some point. Figuring out some way to drive them into Jordan and letting the Palestinians battle for control of that nation with those foreign usurpers running that country is a far better option than many of the rest that I have seen proposed.
I am merely stating that doing so will come at a heavy price. Mr. Levinson and his fellow travelers seem to have this fantasy that they can have their cake and eat it too. I am merely exposing it for what it is: a fantasy. Look, other than hard core leftists, no one LIKES China or Russia. Instead, they FEAR China and Russia, and as a result are willing to make money off trading with them. A terrible idea in my opinion, but hey, I am not the one making the decisions. (I would much rather try to live with the negative consequences of isolating China and Russia the way that we have North Korea and Cuba.) But no one fears Israel because of their lack of size, their lack of economic influence, and their small conventional army.
Those are the facts. And no amount of name calling or other invective is going to change it.
If our choice is to be “civilized” and die or go”rogue” and live we might as well go full boat. As has already been written here by others, we can give very real immediate consequences. Threaten the oil region with glassification. The game would be forever changed. Brass Balls all around.
Re: #44
I would endorse a plan in which any Palestinian who (1) had job skills and/or an education and (2) passed a background check that showed he was in no way associated with any terrorist organization would be allowed and even encouraged to remain.
Re: #45
No one fears Israel because Israel will not USE its small but highly capable conventional army (or its nuclear weapons).
Suppose that, in 1967, Israel had blown up the Aswan Dam. This would have ruined most of Egypt’s economy and possibly reduced it to a subsistence level. People who are scrambling 24/7 for enough food to keep from starving do not have excess time or resources on their hands to raise another army with which to break the peace yet again in only six years. Damascus could probably have been flattened or firebombed Dresden-style. Then the 1973 war would not have happened, and no Arab in his right mind would have even thought of raising his hand to Israel.
If Israel had nukes in 1973 and had used them, I don’t know whether Russia would have retaliated on the Arabs’ behalf or accepted the fait accompli. I am not sure whether whoever was in charge of Russia at the time would have risked losing Odessa, Stalingrad, or perhaps even Moscow to avenge a bunch of Third World savages.
The bottom line is that a nation must sometimes be willing to kill a very large number of people to remain credible. If Israel had killed millions of Arabs in 1967 or 1973 (e.g. by blowing up the Aswan Dam upon which much of Egypt’s economy depends), Israel would be credible and no Arab would lift a hand to it let alone fire missiles at its civilian population.
Bill Levinson:
What a weak-kneed approach. Our enemies are not confined to the Arabs. We have a serious problem with a third column, namely leftist Jews. The liberals have infiltrated every sphere of Israeli life, be it academia, the arts, business, unions, government, etc., etc.
We must find some way to rid ourselves of this menace, since at the end of the day (liberal/leftists) spell our doom. Why not start with Barack and work our way down. Can you imagine any other country that has a subversive as a President (yes Peres)? is it any wonder that Israel’s fortunes are declining daily?
dan Friedman The leftists should be identified and registered. When the time is right, such as a period of emergency, the would be rounded up and interned. They ought to be detained and eventually encouraged? to leave the state. that would be a matter of self protection. I fully agree with you, otherwise we are doomed.