Cotler to Netanyahu, “accept Obama’s terms”
I am speechless. This is so disgusting, its beyond words. Its a betrayal. To suggest its a matter of “favoring internal politics at expense of its int’l standing.” is to write off all Israel legitimate concerns and goals. F..k Israel’s international standing. Keep Judea and Samaria. Ted Belman
Friends of Israel to PM: Accept Obama terms, restart talks
By GIL SHEFLER, JPOST
In apparent criticism of Netanyahu, Ronald Lauder reportedly warns Israel against favoring internal politics at expense of its int’l standing.
Members of the International Council of Jewish Parliamentarians gathered at the King David Hotel on Tuesday for a candid conversation closed to journalists dealing with the considerable challenges facing Israel in the international arena.
During the event, speakers pledged support for Israel, vociferously defending it against its critics, but in between the words of praise some genuine concern could also heard.
Irwin Cotler, the former justice minister of Canada and staunch friend of Israel, took the opportunity to give Prime Minister Binyamin Netanyahu some advice: Accept Obama’s principles and get talks with the Palestinians back on track, for Israel’s sake.
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“I wasn’t criticizing Netanyahu for his inaction, but called on him to take up such an initiative based on the Obama principles, as incorporated in his communiqué issued by the G-8,” he said on the phone on Wednesday. “You have here not just Obama principles, but the G-8, supportive of such principles. Such an initiative would challenge the Palestinians to return to negotiations.”
Cotler spoke about the perceived disconnect between Netanyahu and the US president and suggested it might be time for Jerusalem to bend a little to mend those ties.
“I just said people think there’s been a cultural pond between Obama and Bibi,” he said. “At this point [accepting Obama’s principles] might be a good idea.”
World Jewish Congress president Ronald Lauder, whose organization sponsors the International Council of Jewish Parliamentarians, was also said to be among those critical of Netanyahu at the banquet.
According to reports in the media, the billionaire businessman said starting talks with the Palestinians may be a severe blow to Netanyahu’s coalition, but it was a necessary gambit. Lauder reportedly warned Israel against favoring internal politics at the expense of its standing in the world.
Some have speculated that Lauder’s alleged criticism may be related to Netanyahu’s decision not to appear at WJC’s Board of Governors meeting last week, an act several commentators believe was a deliberate shunning.
In a statement sent to The Jerusalem Post regarding his speech, Lauder reiterated his his “unequivocal” support for Netanyahu and “policies that seek to create a lasting peace in the Middle East.”
“The Prime Minister and I have been friends and colleagues for thirty years. Let there be no mistake. We stand united in the pursuit of peace and the protection of the Jewish people and the State of Israel. My position regarding the need for negotiations is absolutely consistent with the Government’s call for direct negotiations,” said the WJC president in the statement.
Meanwhile, during a short interview aired on Wednesday, Channel 2 reporter Dana Weiss asked Lauder about rumors of a split between him and the prime minister.
“We’ve been friends for 30 years and I expect us to be friends 40 more,” Lauder replied, without denying the rumor. “Every friendship has ups and downs.”
Manyof the readers and commenters here on Israpundit have very exceptional and successful backgrounds in their life endeavors but they don’t choose to flaunt them.
They remain mostly anonymous and stick to the function of this open public forum of expressing their personal opinions.
If in stating personal or professional opinions on a given subject disclosure of a commenters personal status and professional accomplishments adds substantially to the commenters opinion, then I personally have no objection, otherwise who and what they are are totally irrelevant to our discourse and Raison d’être of this site.
I have yet to see where Sternlight’s extensive resume has lent any specific positive relevance to our discussion. Correct me if I am in error.
Sternlight cherry picks who and what he responds to which is his right but when I asked him to expand on the statement below he shut up like a clam. I wonder why?
Comment #21
Pls. elucidate because I’m not sure what you are talking about.
That said I agree fully with SHmuel HaLevi #46 and #50.
Where was the second time I made an ad hominem attack? Even the first time it was not an attack but a considered opinion expressed clearly and precisely. I outlined 4 direct quotes from Mr. Sternlight in support of my considered opinion. I find it very interesting that our self professed American insiders have yet to add to our discussions anything new that most of us were already aware of.
Take Narvey’s bringing up the Weinberger quote that has been widely published on thousands of blogs and in some newspapers. Should we assume if it ain’t in wikipedia it ain’t so? Sternlight never heard of it! That’s strange don’t ya think?
How and why is it unhelpful especially if true? If you think it’s not true make your case. Remember: “The Truth Shall Set You Free”
I will promise to decist from further ad hominems but I will reserve my personal opinion on this subject until and unless I am shown to be wrong.
A good start would be for Sternlight to respond to my comment#21.
.
Re-Post
You believed Weinberger?
Why don’t you post Weinberger’s response here, so we can all judge?
I have a question for David Sternlight.
Mr. Sternlight, do you embrace the Torah of Mt. Sinai as given to Israel after our Exodus from Egypt; including it’s land grant to the children of Israel and covenant promises as recorded therein, to be a binding document and record of History which
stands valid in 2011 for the Jewish people, the Jewish Nation and as a testimony to
the gentile nations that The God of Israel, He is God of the whole earth?
I quote Joshua, the appointed leader after Moses who said, “Choose this day whom thou will serve.” and ask you to comment on this.
Thank you.
Davida Geller Rosenberg
Without American aid? Yes
Without American direct and indirect interference? Yes
Do you now consider American attitudes and policies towards Israel to be not hostile?
Where America to become openly hostile it would matter little than what we have today but it might precipitate a Global war. Could America then survive a Global war and if yes at what cost?
Israel has many unstated options that if pursued would open up other options not yet foreseen, some of the unintended consequences of pursuing policies that invariably are faulty in concept and application. Rational arguments and predictions re: Israel have always fallen short of the mark and I wouldn’t advise beginning now. The Israel of 2011 is not the Israel of the fifties and sixties and neither is America. we are much stronger and America much weaker and declining as the single economic and military world superpower. I wouldn’t overestimate American power and resolve and conversely underestimate Israels power and resolve.
We survived quite well without America even then a belligerent America till just after 67 and more specifically 73.
Dear Mr Netanyahu do not listen to people who know nothing about the history of Israel.Where were these people when 6 million Jews were being exterminated by nazis.You and your people have a country given to you by GOD and no human specially the likes o hussain obama should give you orders of what to do with your country.Hold on tight to what you owe and tell the rest of the world to mind their own business.May GOD give you courage to withstand pressure from all.
D. Sternlight & All – Weinberger’s statement about the Pollard affair being very minor, appears in a March 28th, 2006 article by Edwin Black being a book review of Weinberger’s book, In the Arena. In the last paragraphs of that book review, Black claims to have interviewed Winnberger, presumably in preparation for his book review.
Black says in his piece at: http://hnn.us/articles/778.html
If indeed this is the only source for Weinberger calling the Pollard affair comparatively minor and more was made of it than warranted, his foregoing quoted words are not exactly a recantation of his evidence in affidavit form submitted to the judge in the Pollard case to assist the judge in weighing the gravity of the offence when it came to sentencing.
It appears that what Weinberger is really saying is that given all the other significant and important issues and challenges of the day that America faced some 25 – 30 years ago, the Pollard affair was of relative minor importance.
That does not mean necessarily that the Pollard crime did not have significant consequences to American interests, which is what Weinberger’s affidavit filed in the Pollard case spelled out for the Judge.
If anyone can find a better source of information on this issue of whether or not Weinberger actually refuted his earlier testimony by more recently saying the Pollard matter was minor, it would be appreciated if you would provide us with the linked source.
I covered many of Cotler’s talks in Toronto. In one, he recounted how he told his son how proud he was to have recently won his Montreal riding for the Liberal Party. His son, according to Cotler, replied that Donald Duck could have won that seat for the Liberals. Actually, as far as Israel was concerned, Donald Duck did win it. I confronted Cotler, who was not yet a cabinet minister and told him he was the most disappointing politician in Canada. All he had to do was say the word and he would have been put into cabinet where he could be a strong voice for Israel. He replied that he like the back benches. Eventually, he found himself as Justice Minister but I can’t think of any concrete thing he did in government that was beneficial to Israel. He talked a good talk at conferences and on podiums but as a member of Parliament, he was just another Liberal. Now he has the audacity to take the side of the worst president in U.S. history — the worst in all respects, not just Israel. Irwin Cotler is just another one of those bureaucratic “jewboys” that include people like Dennis Ross and Martin Indyk. They’re part of the problem, not the solution.
Dunno anything about Cotler, but perhaps Emmess would like to substantiate his seemingly anti-semitic slur against Ross and Indyk, based on their entire history, not a few isolated events. Nothing personal toward Emmess, but inquiring minds want to know. It is not a good plan for this group to become an outlet for name-calling against those with whom one disagrees.
Kol Hakavod EMMESS,
We must unmask once and for all those that pretend to be Jews while working on behalf of mortal enemies.
JINO’s or unJews must understand that the Jewish folk know who they are.
Incidentally, I read a few days ago at one or another news site that the IMoD now defines the Altalena murder spree as such. Murder.
Also the news carried the government decison to locate the ALTALENA and it will be raised to become a MONUMENT.
Back to the types in question…
I witnessed once in 1948 near my father’s Municipal Market livestock wholesale yards, how a “capo” hiding as a yard peon was identified and brought to justice. He was taken by a team of former Holocaust survivors specializing on tracking that excrement and delivered to a place near the docks to a field tribunal. He confessed and then was delivered to two former boxers, Jewish boxers that proceeded to destroy the maggot. My dad took me away before the end.
Present day Judenrat look alikes and capos in training exist and must be catalogued as it is already done on two locations.
Last part of 6 part documentary
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HV6vwXNQkho&NR=1
History comes full circle!
Shmuel and Emmess: I notice that some younger Jewish fanatics are more vicious about Holocaust criminals than those Holocaust survivors I have known. Does one suppose it is Jewish guilt, or a desire to be more party-line than thou?
Holocaust criminals should be arrested, tried and sentenced in proportion to their crimes. The Eichmann sentence was appropriate. But I am not going to spew viciousness about it; that just gives the offenders what they want: to upset Jews.
The best advice here is “Don’t get mad; get even.” and “Revenge is a dish best served cold.”
Sumgai is uh, er, insufficiently educated if he thinks name calling is a Jewish tradition. It is a tradition among the ignorant and among thugs. Jewish tradition is embodied in the work of the Chofetz Chaim, who was both clear and detailed about the Jewish prohibition of Loshon Hora and Rechilus.
So far Indyk Ross and othe Yudonim (JewBoys) are complicit in the deaths of over 1300 Jews and the wounding and maiming of over 10,000. The suffering of we Jews and the contributions of those mentioned gives us every right to call them any pejorative name that fits their individual and collective perfidy. To this day they are unrepentant and continue in their efforts to destroy the State of Israel.
Anyone who supports or justifies them is an enemy of Israel and the Jewish people. They are mine too. This is no academic disagreement or argument; there are too many dead Jews to make it an academic debate with all the decorum and niceties that you seem to require if not demand.
Actions have consequences and they are not innocents who acted in good faith but were mistaken.
So far, in response to my polite request to supply specifics justifying the sliming of Ross and Indyk, all we have, and from someone not even addressed by the question, is the vague “complicit in the deaths…and wounding…” of Jews. That is simply another unsubstantiated and seemingly intemperate charge, not a response.
Hizbollah has argued that Israel was “complicit” in murders of Lebanese by each other. That is just as ludicrous.
Headline in Cairo newspaper: “Record heat wave; Israeli plot suspected.”
Yamit is referring to anyone who backed Oslo Accords or the Roadmap which lead to the casualties he sets out. He hates Oslo and anyone who still supports it. He is entitled to his view which many share. So now you know why he is angry at them and even hates them. You appear to accept people who continue to undermine our right to the land.
Sure they are entitled to their opinion but they must be prepared to be vilified for it.
Israel was in increasing danger of being isolated, and even being cut off from vital materiel. They had to try Oslo. It retrospect it was a major blunder, but the Western assumption at the time was that the Egyptian Engineer and jumped-up, venal “Palestinian George Washington” would keep his word and do his part of the bargain.
Now that Oslo has failed, the door is open to such things as denouncing it and getting world opinion on Israel’s side. It has taken some in Western government circles a while to see the Palestinians for what, as many Israelis knew and even more suspected, they are. That has opened the door for what, pre-Oslo, would not have been a favorable outcome for israel.
These days the Pals and their front organizations are becoming increasingly discredited in the West. That can lead to a shift in responsibility for them from UNRWA, a permanent handout organization preserving this cancer next to Israel, to the UNHCR, a refugee resettlement organization whose historical terms of reference (refugees are first-generation, not their offspring in perpetuity) may even be applied. Most of these real refugees (regardless of whose fault it was) have died and those remaining are elderly and unlikely to make trouble for any host country willing to take them.
In any war, and make no mistake this is war against Israel by many, there are skirmishes and in some of them people on the front lines get killed. It’s not something one seeks, but it happens, and every Israeli General knows it.
Behaving like a madman even when perfectly sane may be a strategy, as General Yehezkel Dror’s book “Crazy States” about Qadhafi argued, but eventually (as we see today) that string runs out. F-Y and slamming the door is cut from the same cloth.
Lets “speak” phonetic Hebrew correctly. It is LASHON Harah.
That and other excuses have been used and abused. The Torah which as a religious Levite I am called quite often to honor, clearly specifies the consequences for those that effect traiterous acts, etc.
I am all for the Goyim Nazis to dance within the non Jewish tribunals. In special cases also dealt with by Jewish folk united into courts.
Jewish born murderers at the service of the old Nazis or their newly hatched filth or collaborators or traitors in any degree must be ruthlessly eliminated from our Minianim.
Not in our name do those repugnant specimens act.
Both Nazis and or IslamoNazis and so called Jewish items, (“partners”), that collaborate with the excrement must tremble in terror when considering harming our people.
NEVER AGAIN does not only address the former, the Goyim Nazis, David.
NEVER AGAIN applies as well to the JINO’s unJews serving anyone planning harm to our people or State. Or those serving enemies to obtain personal benefits. Not suprisingly many of those found sympatizers in the US within the camp of the one with the birth certificate.
In the US nest a significant number of that.
There are two listings with complete details about the later and most Jews can access the Sites.
The last time I checked it included about 7200 such specimens names, and many details.
So we do nor get carried away from focus….
We demand that every JEW make all efforts clearly and w/o excuses to FREE Mr. Pollard
By the way, I have met and questioned Peres, Rabin, and Netanyahu one on one at events at the U.S. Council on Foreign Relations, and I suspect my opinion of them is not much different than many here, especially with regard to Oslo, but unlike some here, I don’t see an elsewhere to take my marbles and play. Isolationism is no solution, as many other countries have historically learned, and F-Y and slamming the door is the first big step on the road to isolationism.
I can’t resist: do a Google search and you will find any number of American Jewish authorities transliterating it as Loshon Hora; many as Lashon Hora or Lashon Hara, and some even as Lashon Ha-Ra. Practices are by no means standardized outside Israel, and are further confused by the Sephardic/Israeli vs. Ashkenazi pronunciation.
I am happy, however, to have had your advice.
Nothing personal
Some here have asked what I really think. Very well then, I favor the two-state solution. The name of the Palestinian State is Jordan.
We can cross the Biblical bridge about the tribe Moshe Rabbeinu allowed to stay on the other side of the Jordan later.
David, what game plan do you have in mind to open the world’s eyes to your view that the 2 state solution is already in place with the existence of the state of Jordan and what do you propose regarding the Palestinians who are in J & S who refuse to move to the state they already have?
It is not for me to tell the Israelis what to do with the occupied territories; I was expressing my view of the legal history.
David, an opinion is worthless unless you can explain it, defend it and act on it for the purpose of persuading others to your opinion and to similarly act on that opinion.
So is your opinion worthless or are you prepared to make your opinion count?
“the Jewish prohibition of Loshon Hora and Rechilus.
” pertains only to Jews”
Rabbis tried to make Jews nice, to make us “more pious than G-d.” Guess what, Jews are not nice. From those who fought under Abraham to those who robbed the Egyptians to those who knocked down the towns of Canaan to Dir Yassin—the Jews are anything but nice. Nice Jews were supposed to talk nice, and rabbis invented the doctrine of evil tongue. What could be further from Judaism?
It is the obligation of any Jew to talk bad—very bad—about deviants, and to denounce evildoers. That’s regardless of his or her own piety. Judges need not be unblemished and righteous in order to condemn sinners. The evil tongue is bad only if it spreads baseless rumors.
Speaking evil of an evil person is an obligation. Jews need to denounce their own in order to cleanse society.
Judaism is about strength—social and moral. Only a strong society can expel deviants for every moral offense. Only a strong society unrelentingly executes and otherwise punishes those who threaten its moral integrity and ritual purity. Only a strong society exterminates Amalek.
You are again Cherry picking your references, You omitted Din Rodef and Din Moser not to mention Melchemet Mitzvah? I wonder why?
You also omitted:
Mishne Torah, Sefer Shoftim, The Laws of Kings and Their Wars, Chapter 5, Halakha 12.
At all times, a person should dwell in Eretz Yisrael, even in a city whose population is primarily of worshippers of idols, rather than dwell in the Diaspora in a city whose population is primarily Jewish.
In that all who leave [the land] for the Diaspora is as though he worships idols, as it is says: They have driven me out today from dwelling in the heritage of G-d, saying, ‘Go serve other gods.’ [Shmuel I 26:19] Similarly, [Ezekiel's (13:9) prophecies of] retribution state: They shall not come to the Land of Israel.
Just as it is forbidden to leave the Land for the Diaspora, so it is forbidden to leave Bavel for other lands, as it is written: They shall be brought to Bavel and there they shall be [until I take notice of them . . . and restore them to this place, i.e. the Land of Israel]. [Jeremiah 27:22]5
Source Halakha 12:
Talmud Bavli, Ketuvot, 110b, Our Rabbis taught: One should always live in the Land of Israel, even in a town most of whose inhabitants are idolaters, but let no one live outside the Land, in a town most of whose inhabitants are Israelites; for whoever lives in the Land of Israel may be considered to have a G-d, but whoever lives outside the Land may be regarded as one who has no G-d. For it is said in Scripture, To give you the Land of Canaan, to be your G-d. [Vayikra 25:38] Has he, then, who does not live in the Land, have no G-d? But [this is what the text intended] to tell you, that whoever lives outside the Land may be regarded as one who worships idols. Similarly it was said in Scripture in [the story of] David, For they have driven me out this day that I should not cleave to the inheritance of the L-rd, saying: Go, serve other gods. [Shmuel I 26:9] Now, whoever said to David, ‘Serve other gods’? But [the text intended] to tell you that whoever lives outside the Land may be regarded as one who worships idols. [Tosafot,'Avoda Zara, 5]
Forget something in your Jewish education? Hmmmmm, I wonder why?
Bill Narvey refuses to acknowledge that an unsupported accusation must be backed up, and that it is not on those who question it to prove the contrary. Very well, then, I heard him and do not agree.
Yamit continues to be unable to resist putting malicious personal attack zingers into his posts; in the latest case
I am shutting down this thread.