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  • October 27, 2011

    Is a peace agreement possible?

    By Ted Belman

    In this article I assume that this is a territorial conflict only, though I don’t believe it is. My right wing bloggers group consider the authors of this report to be peaceniks.

    The Atlantic just published a report, Is Peace Possible. It uses a number of videos to indicate what both sides want and asks whether swaps can b ridge the gaps. It argues that the PA wants 100% of the territories and though Israel thinks it is entitled to all of it that Israel is trying to keep that part of J&S on which 75% of the settlers live including in Jerusalem, By its estimates there are 500,000 settlers and thus the suggestion is that Israel would have to remove 125,000 of them.

    I disagree with this presentation for a number of reasons. In many cases the GOI is responsible for these errors.

      1) The starting point is that Palestine consists of all the territories and Israel within the ’67 armistice lines. The land lying east of these lines together with Gaza equals 22% of these lands and the Palestinians want the equivalent of 100% of it. No where does it mention Res 242 which allowed Israel to keep some of the lands and to have secure boundaries. It simply says that the PA is adamant in getting 100%. Secondly, Mandate Palestine included Jordan which should be part of the territorial settlement because it is 70^ Palestinian and represents 78% of the Mandated land. How much easier would it be to arrive at a territorial settlement if Jordan was considered Palestine or gave up 15% of its land to the new Palestine thereby increasing it in size by 50%. I blame the Israel government for not insisting on the inclusion of Jordan and its land in the discussion.

      2) It lumps together the “settlers” living in Jerusalem east of the armistice line but within the annexed Jerusalem. As I understand it they represent about 300,000 plus or minus 10%. The settlers in the territories also number 300,000 plus or minus 10%. Israel has long rejected uprooting 125,000 of them which is about 40%. I think that by keeping Ariel and Maaleh Adumin, this number would be reduced to under 75,000 which is still too big a number.

    By not rejecting the peace process, Israel is opening accepting negotiations which aim to bridge the gap. Netanyahu is following in the footsteps of Barak and Olmert.

    Netanyahu inherited the Shalit negotiations and once complained that he was dealt a lousy hand as though he couldn’t have started all over again. Similarly, he is not prepared to start all over again on peace negotiations and is prepared to play with the hand he was dealt. It too is a lousy hand.

    He is foolish to think that by undermining Abbas, he will be getting a more flexible opponent.

    Jeffry Golberg comments on this Report.

    “The work here is rigorous and meticulous, but it is not without a bias — a useful bias, to my way of thinking: The people behind the project support a two-state solution to the Middle East crisis. Zvika Krieger, of the Abraham Center, writes about the underlying assumption of the project:

      “The vast majority of both Israelis and Palestinians prefer this outcome (though doubt the commitment of the other side), and a similarly strong majority of both populations agree on the basic contours of the resolution. Creating an independent, viable state of Palestine in the West Bank and Gaza Strip is the only way that Israel can remain a democracy and a Jewish state, stem the tide of international delegitimization, and be secure in its borders while accepted in the region (as we discuss in the Security chapter). The majority of Palestinians and the current Palestinian leadership still see the two-state solution (which they officially accepted in 1988) as the most realistic path to a state of their own, though they are growing increasingly frustrated with the inability of negotiations to achieve that goal. An alarming number of them are beginning to wonder whether they should instead ask for equal citizenship in Israel — which, if granted, would end Israel’s Jewish majority.

    Notice the reference to the frustration of the Palestinians without a mention where the blame lies for this frustration. Its like everyone sympathizes with the frustration because the poor Palestinians aren’t getting what they demand.

  • Posted by Ted Belman @ 3:05 pm | 6 Comments »

    6 Comments to Is a peace agreement possible?

    1. BlandOatmeal says:

      Before you know it, Obama will be calling for an 1836 border with Mexico, adjusted with land swaps. America has no business, trying to dictate Israel’s internal affairs. I’m waiting for Turkey to end its illegal occupation of Cyprus and Kurdistan, for the Egyptians to find a two-state solution for Muslims and Copts, and for the Saudis to find a two state solution between Sunnis and Shiites. Until those things happen, all these demands on Israel are plainly shown to be nothing but BS — deep, stirred up and stinking BS.

    2. NormanF says:

      Peace is impossible because Palestinian leaders reject any solution that implies acceptance of a Jewish State alongside an Arab one. They are willing to wait decades for total victory. No amount of unilateral Israeli concessions or goodwill gestures will bring about peace. Israel’s position has mellowed over the decades while the other side remains unswervingly committed to the goal of seeking Israel’s destruction. There is no way to bridge the differences between the Arabs and the Jews in our lifetime.

    3. Bar Kokhba says:

      The “Two State Solution” has become almost a vanity project among the leftists and their minions.Many who advocate such a solution have no real skin in the game as they pontificate or preach from afar. Ignoring or obfuscating facts on the ground, this futile exercise of folly will never produce peace but rather a remix of the “Final Solution”. Generations of indoctrination and institutionalized dogma of hate by Arab leaders to their flocks has left little room for conciliation or compromise. Just as parallel barbarism was eradicated in World War II by the Allies with the use of stunning force, so must Islamo-fascism be defeated. Israel, from the river to the sea must be the intractable position of the Israeli people and government for anything less will ultimately result in the “death of Israel by a thousand cuts”.

    4. yamit82 says:

      “The vast majority of both Israelis and Palestinians prefer this outcome (though doubt the commitment of the other side), and a similarly strong majority of both populations agree on the basic contours of the resolution.

      When polled is there any other option offered the respondents, except “do you agree or disagree to a 2 state solution?

      Creating an independent, viable state of Palestine in the West Bank and Gaza Strip is the only way that Israel can remain a democracy and a Jewish state,

      Nobody ever or rarely explains why an independent and viable state is necessary , desirable or even possible, especially the viable part. According to the World Bank it’s an impossibility. At some point Israel will have to choose between being Jewish and being a democracy. Jewish democracy is an oxymoron. In any even there are alternatives, so far unexplored

      stem the tide of international delegitimization, and be secure in its borders while accepted in the region (as we discuss in the Security chapter).

      Those that wish to delegitimize Israel will always find a reason. Jew Haters always do. I prefer the in your face defense option, never back down from Jew haters or anyone else for that matter but especially Jew Haters.

      I am waiting for them to demand we give up our Nukes or else and we ans. ‘Sorry we don’t have any, we just used them all’!

      The majority of Palestinians and the current Palestinian leadership still see the two-state solution (which they officially accepted in 1988) as the most realistic path to a state of their own, though they are growing increasingly frustrated with the inability of negotiations to achieve that goal.

      May they all choke to death on their frustration, What about our frustrations?

      They didn’t really accept a 2 state solution and maintaining that fiction is a demagogue lie.

      An alarming number of them are beginning to wonder whether they should instead ask for equal citizenship in Israel — which, if granted, would end Israel’s Jewish majority.

      Ask, I’d be glad to have them. They would have to join the Army, pay taxes, get no preferential treatment as they do today by the government, have to sign a loyalty pledge, sing Hatikva and mean it. Fly the Israeli flag on all schools and municipal buildings, have all their illegal homes and buildings demolished, (Just like Jewish citizens do) and to pay for having Arab citizens we will cease paying child allowances.

      Flying or demonstrating with a Pali Flag is cause for rescinding or revoking their Israeli citizenship along with a long list of other provocative acts they get away with today. All Arabs convicted of felonious crimes will serve an automatic 25 years with no parole or they will be permitted to leave for a third country. Lots of perfectly legal ways to make them want to leave as citizens with equality under the law like paying municipal taxes for water and garbage disposal and electricity which few pay in fact… let them become citizens, then enforce strictly the laws that exist and those needed to be legislated. bring it on.

    5. birdalone says:

      whatever. I watched the 13 minute one this morning, and, as a map reader, at least the videos make it finally possible to look at the various maps.

    6. dweller says:

      “…sing Hatikva and mean it.”

      Well, now, you can’t exactly require somebody to “mean it.”

      On the other hand, we could require them to sound like they mean it

      – maybe create a contest:

      “And this year’s award for ‘Most Plausible Performance’ goes to _______.”

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