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  • February 17, 2012

    Aryeh Eldad talks reality and Palestine is Jordan

    MK ELDAD SPEAKING IN THE US IN THE FALL OF 2011

  • Posted by Ted Belman @ 11:13 am | 29 Comments »

    29 Comments to Aryeh Eldad talks reality and Palestine is Jordan

    1. Paul says:

      “… if we misdiagnose the disease … ” “It is a real clash of … religions … ”

      This guy is right and wise too. More relief from the people who have to know, and not just want to know.

    2. yamit82 says:

      Israel should help create a Jordanian Arab spring, leading to a Pali State led by Hamas (MB) Pali Branch. I agree The little Kings days are numbered so we should help to shorten them. The New Pali State in Jordan will emulate their brothers in Gaza forcing a conflict between two recognized nation states. Israel will be forced to eventually invade Jordan due to attacks on Israel from Jordan and we will be forced to drive them into Iraq up to the Euphrates. Hezbollah similarly will force Israel to conquer and depopulate southern Lebanon and eventually annex that Territory. We then will have control and sovereignty over most of greater Israel.

      I love it when a good plan comes together. ;)

    3. yamit82 says:

      Eldad has always been my choice for PM of Israel well before he went into politics.

      If it was not clear before it should be now clear to any with eyes and a workable brain: Israel must break the hold of America on us. They are endangering every Jew in Israel and beyond.

      To those who fear of what the consequences would be for us, I am reminded that David went up against Goliath with the weapons that were available to him and was victorious. Today Israel has more than just a sling and a few stones available to us.

      “We were in our own sight as grasshoppers, and so were we in their sight” (Num. 13:33).

      Fear was the sin of the Israelites and they were punished with 40 years of wandering in the desert till the generation of the freighted died out. We have not yet completed the obligation of conquest of the Land of Israel. Peace will only come when the conquest of the entirety of the Land of Israel is complete and brought under Jewish sovereignty. Eldad alludes to this in his lecture.

      The Arab Muslims have their Jihad and we have our Milchemet Mitzvah- (Wars of obligation)!! Yes!! This is a religious conflict.

    4. viiit says:

      Question is if we could get weapons from Russia instead of United States.
      Russia makes quality weapons and much cheaper than America.
      If America does not want to resupply us, then perhaps there are alternatives.
      Alternately, there are the nukes. They need to be tested to make sure they work.
      Israel should be testing the nukes now.

    5. TW says:

      Much as I admire MK Eldad, I was stunned by the picture of national helplessness he presents. As if Israel can’t do anything unless the Big Bad USA allows it.

      I just don’t buy it.

      Almost forty-five years have passed since the 1967 victory and no effective popular effort has ever been made to push for sovereignty over the territories.

      There was good will towards Israel then. The Arabs had been soundly defeated. The moment was perfect. Israel could have asserted its sovereignty over the entire land and repatriated Jordanian nationals to their country. Nothing was done and nobody seemed to mind. The opportunity was lost.

      ~~~~~~~

      For the sake of argument let’s say that indeed all Israeli administrations have had their hands tied, and been under the full control of the Big Bad US government.

      But the US government can’t control the spirit of the people.

      Nationalist organizations could have sprung up and lobbied the Israeli government, Congress, US Jewish organizations, and more.

      They wouldn’t have needed large numbers or a lot of money to get started. Just an effective strategy and the ability to identify provocateurs and government infiltrators. And then that national movement could have become a tidal wave that no US State Department or CIA could have stopped.

      Even today, Yesha Jews could form their own organization independent from national government and political parties, and use every legal means available to push for sovereignty and more influence in government, while lobbying for support from abroad.

      But instead of that they remain waiting, politically divided, without a strong voice, still following the same old Yesha community leaders who tell them to keep busy building shacks.

      While the Arabs mobilize at the UN, Yesha activists use their time and intelligence to build shacks.

      MK Eldad tells us that Israel is powerless and that we must wait for something to happen in Jordan… in Jordan! for Israel to – perhaps, maybe, if things work out in Israel’s favor – have a chance to avoid the establishment of an Arab state on Jewish land.

      The time to demand sovereignty is now.

      By the time Jordan experiences regime change, the regional dynamics may be even more unfavorable to implement the Jordan is Palestine plan. Push for it now.

    6. BlandOatmeal says:

      The only plan I see turning the wheels in Arab minds is, “Jordan is Palestine, Gaza is Palestine, Yesh is Palestine, Golan is Palestine and Tel Aviv is Palestine.” I don’t see what profit there can possibly be, in helping to create yet another radical Islamist state in Israel’s neighborhood.

    7. BlandOatmeal says:

      By the time Jordan experiences regime change, the regional dynamics may be even more unfavorable to implement the Jordan is Palestine plan. Push for it now.

      TW, the regional dynamics today are all against Israel, as never before in history. They HAVE to change, and the only thing that can change them is a fantastic war. All this other talk — of lobbying, of pushing for “Jordan is Palestine” and other go-nowhere plans, and, yes, even building shacks (caravans/ trailers, actually) in Yesh — just seem like so much re-arranging the deck chairs on the Titanic. You were correct, in saying that a great opportunity opened up for Israel because of the 1967 War (an opportunity that Israel did not exploit). Israel needs an encore war, not this diplomatic BS.

    8. yamit82 says:

      The Plan I was referring to was the only plan relevant, That of the BOSS!!!

      The G-d of Jews is the G-d of History. He dominates and controls. He shapes the present and decrees the future. The Jewish G-d is the G-d of creation, the G-d of History past and future. The Chosen people of this Omnipotence need fear no nation or might or force on this world and that the Jewish Destiny is – guaranteed by the G-d of History.

      In this partnership the Jews need to do their part and let the BOSS do his. Events are being manipulated for a rational purpose. For me the purpose is clear. Nothing will prevent the end result but we only have control as to how and when and even that is limited to narrow choices.

    9. rongrand says:

      yamit82 says:
      February 18, 2012 at 2:13 pm
      The Plan I was referring to was the only plan relevant, That of the BOSS!!!

      Uncle, you right on and thank goodness He is the G-d of all. That’s not to say He doesn’t have His chosen people. In fact I have to believe He led His people back to the Holy Land and it’s not by chance, rather by Divine intervention.

      yamit82 says:
      February 18, 2012 at 12:23 am
      Israel must break the hold of America on us. They are endangering every Jew in Israel and beyond.

      Uncle, you make a valid point. I am sure you will agree the problem lies with the US administration. Americans as a whole fully support Israel and unfortunately we have those in the government who continue to treat Israel as a step child.

      We need to elect those who will act out the will of the people. We should treat Israel as a true friend and trusted ally on an equal basis.

      You don’t tell your friends what to do, you ask “how can we help or assist you”.

      Now if we could only get the liberal American Jews off the Obama kool-aid.

      Time for solidarity, calling all Jews to abandon the so called Reform, Orthodox, etc and return to your roots. Open the doors of the one true synagogue and be united.

      Like Uncle Nahum (Yamit) stated, the BOSS is looking after you, now it’s time to do your part.

      PS, for goodness sake remember Obama is a anti-Semite who embraces Islam, the same Islam that wants to kill Jews and destroy Israel.

    10. yamit82 says:

      Question is if we could get weapons from Russia instead of United States.
      Russia makes quality weapons and much cheaper than America.
      If America does not want to resupply us, then perhaps there are alternatives.
      Alternately, there are the nukes. They need to be tested to make sure they work.
      Israel should be testing the nukes now.

      The Russians will sell to anyone with the money to pay or barter. Besides natural resources they don’t produce anything else of value except weapons. Their weapons generally are inferior to Americas but at a quarter of the price and with Israeli upgrades they would be in most cases the equal if not superior to anything the Americans produce. Russia and Israel from a pov in weapons production are a natural fit. With an Israeli partnership Russian Weapons sales would increase exponentially. Israel would become a valuable asset to the Russians to be protected for self interest reasons not based on geopolitical meaningless euphemisms, like democracy and human rights etc. If the Russians can use a veto to protect Assad they can use that same veto to protect a valued economic partner and customer.

      Israel just awarded the Italians the contract for Jet trainers over the Korean competitor. A billion dollar trade off, we buy 30 Italian Jet Trainers and they buy from us 2-4 Israeli made AWACS for a billion dollar trade off. The Koreans who lost the tender are pissed and threaten to stop all purchases from Israel if not breaking off relations. Korean Plane was better, more expensive, Israel made a political decision and we just lost a potential valuable customer and a better plane.

    11. TW says:

      Things can get worse if Israelis continue to wait. A few examples:

      - Obama’s second term.
      - Netanyahu’s second term.
      - Wider Likud-Left alliance.
      - Eventual imposition of statehood by UN (requires US abstention from Security Council vote)
      - Partial disengagement from Yesha by Israel

      Is it war you want, Bland Oatmeal?

      - War where Israel plays by UN Rules of War designed specifically for the IDF. (Rules already in place)
      - War with a government with such low threshold for stress?
      - War with Ehud Barak as M. of Defense.
      - War with (…. fill in the blanks) coming to the aid of Israel’s enemies and occupying the country in the name of peace or in the name of (…. fill in the blanks) excuse. It happens elsewhere in the world all the time.
      - Catastrophic consequences for Yesha population or population at large. Evacuation. Chaos.

      Quite likely, even if the IDF fight like lions again, the ruling anti-Zionist elite will maneuver behind the scenes to use the conflict to precipitate the partition of the country and give Yesha to the Arabs. It’s a habit now for victorious Israel to cede land in the name of peace, even in a defensive war. I can almost hear the M of Defense ordering troops to concentrate action only on this side of the Green Line.

      It so happens that countries’ expectations of war are always wrong. The Law of Unintended Consequences takes care of that. I’m re-reading Shirer’s The Nightmare Years. A long series of misunderstandings, lies, denial of reality, big betrayals at the highest levels, and Jews’ unmovable belief that things couldn’t get worse.

    12. yamit82 says:

      Uncle, you make a valid point. I am sure you will agree the problem lies with the US administration. Americans as a whole fully support Israel and unfortunately we have those in the government who continue to treat Israel as a step child.

      If the American people cannot or will not influence any administrations negative policies towards Israel, what does it matter to us that they are more pro Israel than say the Afghans, Palis or Saudis?

      Now if we could only get the liberal American Jews off the Obama kool-aid.

      I doubt American policy towards Israel will change. Essentially American policies towards Israel haven’t changed since Truman and it hasen’t changed much from Democrats to Republicans and Republicans to Democrats. American policy is governed by their peceived national interests and on balance Israel his not high on Americas list of national interests. Rightly so!! I wish Israels government would do the same.

      Forget about so called American Jews, the past generation of them hid out during the Holocaust and the current generation if anything is worse. Even most of the well meaning and most Israel supportive Jews will hide out if we are similarly threatened. They love to endow museums and memorials and play victims. Some might even donate money, not as much as they give to Obama but enough to sooth their consciousnesses.

      Sometimes supporters are worse than no support.

      I don’t care about Obama, I blame BB and his predecessors. They can always say NO, to America. The sky won’t fall.

    13. rongrand says:

      If the American people cannot or will not influence any administrations negative policies towards Israel,

      I hope and pray the Tea Party (mix of Conservatives, Liberals, Independents) who favor limited government, less government spending and limited entitlements and hopefully term limits will swell and become a major force in our country when “we the people” will influence government policy. Again, I pray.

      Forget about so called American Jews,

      Listen, you know I have said it many times, if these so called Jewish democratic
      strategist would get the hell off the liberal band wagon and unite all Jews in America, they also could gain non-Jewish support and influence government policy.

      I believe you indicated the Jewish people are too splintered. Why can’t they return to their roots and be united under one synagogue?
      Solidarity is and should be important to them.

      I once said years ago as a Catholic HS student in the early 50′s, I had a nice conversation with a Jewish glazier who told me how important it was for all Jews to stick together and help each other when necessary to be sure the Holocaust never happens again.

      By the way he was a gentlemen and I considered him a friend.

    14. Viiit says:

      Agree with most as probabilities. We cannot know for certain.

      Also, from what I read, the Korean plane was not better, the Italian was supposedly somewhat better.

    15. yamit82 says:

      Almost forty-five years have passed since the 1967 victory and no effective popular effort has ever been made to push for sovereignty over the territories.

      There was good will towards Israel then. The Arabs had been soundly defeated. The moment was perfect. Israel could have asserted its sovereignty over the entire land and repatriated Jordanian nationals to their country. Nothing was done and nobody seemed to mind. The opportunity was lost.

      But the US government can’t control the spirit of the people.

      Nationalist organizations could have sprung up and lobbied the Israeli government, Congress, US Jewish organizations, and more.

      Conservative Jews—and we don’t count the Likud supporters among them—just cannot prevail by democratic means. But could they revolt? A frog does not jump out of hot water if boiled slowly. Not annexing Sinai in 1956 and Hebron in 1967, being expelled from Yamit and Gush Katif, conceding to Muslim pollution of the Temple Mount and the banning of Jewish worship there; concession after concession has beaten Jewish conservatives into unconsciousness.

      Add to that the conservatives’ traditional laziness. Leftists seek to change society, and are active. Conservatives seek to preserve, and are passive. Even Meir Kahane failed to collect money for his campaigns. Out of his hundreds of thousands of supporters, he could not muster eight thousand poll watchers to prevent the left from stealing his votes.

    16. Eleanor Doctor LL.B. says:

      The unexpected election of an Anti Zionist, anti-semitic US President, Barak Hussein Obama, should serve as a wake up call for Zionists generally and the State of Israel, in particular. It is not a matter of whether or not Israel wants to remain in a sate of dependency on the US. In the near future, Israel will have no choice in the matter.

      In 2010 there were 5,275,000 Jews in the US including Jews by birth or conversion. Of these, approximately 1/3 are intermarried and 1/3 are married to converts. Demographic studies and empirical evidence demonstrate that the vast majority of the children of intermarried couples and grandchildren of converts do not identify themselves as Jews when they are adults, including those who are halachically Jewish. Consequently, it is reasonable to expect that the Jewish population in the US will drop to perhaps 2-3 million by 2030. Further, most American Jews who affiliate religiously at all, affiliate with the Reform movement and, notwithstanding protestations to the contrary, the Reform Movement has always been ambivalent with regard to the Zionist enterprise.

      At the same time, the Muslim population is expected to grow to 6.2 million by 2030. Muslims tend to live in concentrated communities and to vote as a block. It will not be long before their political will vis-a-vis a Jewish state in the MIddle East will overshadow any Jewish influence in Congress.

      Israel has no choice but to wean itself off dependency on the US in general and the US armaments industry, in particular.

    17. yamit82 says:

      Comment in moderation? For what?

    18. rongrand says:

      Demographic studies and empirical evidence demonstrate that the vast majority of the children of intermarried couples and grandchildren of converts do not identify themselves as Jews when they are adults, including those who are halachically Jewish.

      Eleanor, do you think they are ashamed to be identified as Jewish? I believe every Jew should be very proud to be Jewish. I find no reason not too.

      They have to remember they were the victims of hate throughout history and did nothing to warrant that treatment and have no reason to be ashamed. It anything, Catholics and Christians alike should be ashamed, ashamed of what they did in the name of Christianity and what they failed to do to prevent crimes against the Jews.

      No Eleanor, they should be proud to be identified as being Jewish. Why not a National Jewish Heritage Day throughout the US. I still (Yamit will say I repeat myself) say “If you are Jewish, no matter where you reside, you are connected to Israel by Heritage, Faith and by G-d.”

    19. yamit82 says:

      Israel has no choice but to wean itself off dependency on the US in general and the US armaments industry, in particular.

      Yes we do ASAP! READ THIS

      If American Jews, want to understand why your numbers are dwindling and your influence waning, They should realize that America, as a nation, addresses your needs as Americans, but is indifferent to your fate as Jews.

      The United Jewish Communities’ “National Jewish Population Survey 2000″ — a decennial demographic study — found that, due to a negative net birthrate (i.e., Jewish deaths exceeded Jewish births for that period), America’s Jewish population had declined by 300,000 souls from 1990 to 2000. This translates to an average net loss of 82 Jews per day for that decade. This is hardly surprising in light of the study’s finding that 70% of Jewish women in the United States between the ages of 25 and 29 were childless.

      The study also discovered that, due to an ongoing intermarriage rate in excess of 50%, of all children under the age of 12 with Jewish parentage in the United States, less than half have two Jewish parents. Of the more than half with a gentile parent, (according to other surveys) only a quarter thereof will be raised as Jews. Of these, only a small minority will marry other Jews, as it will be almost impossible for an intermarried Jew, however sincere, to convince his or her child to do what he or she failed to do, namely: marry a fellow Jew.

      These findings were from 2000, Today I suspect the situation is far worse for Jews. Numbers don’t lie if anything they understate…The American Jewish Community is self destructing and in 2-3 generations will cease to exist as a viable dynamic community.

      The Message is clear. If the Jewish people are to have a Future, it will only be found in Israel. American Jews can either be a part of that Future, or they can simply disappear. American Jewry will not vanish overnight. But its days are numbered.

    20. yamit82 says:

      Another comment in moderation? What’s up Ted?

    21. bernard ross says:

      One thing I do not like about his speech is that he has left out the main legal justification for Jordan is Palestine AND that it is the exclusive home of the arab residents of the former palestine mandate territories. How can a state be created upon 77% of the palestine mandate territory and not be available to former inhabitants of the Palestine mandate territory. Furthermore, if 77% of the former palestine is created JEW FREE and Jews from the remaining 23% cannot reside, own land or be citizens of the 77% portion then the remaining 23% must be the home of the non arab jewish population of the former Palestine mandate territory. He also makes no mention of the responsibility of jordan and the arabs to provide the solution to the arab and jewish refugee problem as their invasions were the direct cause. Eldad, like bibi, does not demand justice. He also provides solutions that appear based on convenience and luck and fails to mention that this can be the ONLY just solution to the creation of Jordan upon Palestine mandate territory and the creation of the resulting ethnic cleansing of jews from arab lands. It is absurd that 77% is dedicated SOLELY to the arabs and that they still expect to take parts of the remaining 23% left to the Jews. Are there no Israeli political leaders who can enunciate this simple concept? Certainly,in order to obtain a paradigm shift to Jordan is Palestine there must be new leaders who can repudiate old agreements and resolutions based on the duress of the holocaust and fear of the jew killers.

    22. lois lane says:

      rongrand:

      once said years ago as a Catholic HS student in the early 50?s, I had a nice conversation with a Jewish glazier who told me how important it was for all Jews to stick together and help each other when necessary to be sure the Holocaust never happens again

      I take exception to your Catholic baiting. I am a Catholic as well and I think we have always treated Jews and other non Catholics fairly. We too should stick together and should not malign each other.

    23. rongrand says:

      Lois, I was not Catholic baiting. FYI, I have been around here for a number of years and most know I am a Catholic.

      You have a problem Lois and I am sure Clark Kent can’t help you,in fact I am sure Superman can’t either.

      You should find another gig or site.

      You have become an annoyance.

    24. steven l says:

      The Palestinians can do no wrong! No matter what they do or do not do. The world has been brainwashed for more than a century by the Arabs and the West in denying the Jews their state. Among the West there are many Jews.

    25. lois lane says:

      Sorry if you find me an annoyance but I tell it as it is. My word for you is B-o-r-i-n-g.

    26. yamit82 says:

      I am a Catholic as well and I think we have always treated Jews and other non Catholics fairly.

      That’s probably a true statement if being fair interpretation is based on the life and deeds of the Marquis De Sade. Tell us if you are a direct descendent of Torquemada who set the standard for Catholic fairness to Jews and non Jews. Fair to Jews? Shirley you do jest? 8)

    27. yamit82 says:

      from what I read, the Korean plane was not better, the Italian was supposedly somewhat better.

      Post a link to any items which says the Italian plane is better than the Korean. I have yet to find one.

    28. scottdnok says:

      My thoughts as well.
      So how is this to be brought about?

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