Stop preaching the gospel to Jews
By Ted Belman
Lately I have had to curtail some Christians who couldn’t help but making reference to Jesus as the Messiah or Lord in the hope of convincing us that they were right. This caused some violent reactions from some proud Jews.
One commenter said in response:
- “Ted, I see that Israpundit has become a cesspool of anti-Christian intolerance. If this is what you want, so be it. It’s really opening my eyes about the true nature of Jews.”
And I let loose:
- Where’s your Christian charity? After 2000 years of Christian antisemitism and slaughter of Jews, are we not entitled to be angry. After Christians grafted their movement onto ours, distorted our scriptures and even promulgated the idea that there was a new covenant with Christians that replaced the covenant with the Jewish people, and high-jacked our concept of messiah, replacing it with a totally alien concept, are we not entitled to be angry. When Christians ignore all this and come into our homes whether in Israel or Israpundit and presume to teach us the “truth” are we not entitled to be offended and to stop them. Christians believe they are superior to Jews and that their way is the right way and ours obviously is not. Everytime they “spread the word” among us they are insulting us and offending us.
When Christians stop promoting Christianity and simply support us as Americans or even as Christians, there will be no displays of “anti-Christian intolerance”. The moment you try to push your religion on us, do not be surprised with the reaction. Believe me, it is fully justified.
The “true nature of Jews” is that they are content within themselves and have no interest in pushing their religion on others. Is it the true nature of Christians that they can’t keep to their own religion, that they must forever be complelled to prove themselves and their religion and that they can’t leave others alone, which would be a sign of respect. Muslims also don’t leave us alone, or you also, and attempt to convert us under the sword, as you did once. How can you complain about them when you are guilty of the same thing to one degree or another, at one time or another.
The answer my friend is for Christians to stop preaching the gospel.
@ Viiit:
Interesting concepts. What’s your source for such racist ideas?
yamit82 Said:
What are you playing the fool for Yamit? You know that a Jew is always a Jew, by reason of their birth. Just like a French person can move to another country and change nationality, but still be French. Lots of Pakistanis in the UK who have British citizenship, but are still Pakistanis.
@ Laura:
Militant Germany after being defeated in two devastating world wars changed their tactics for attaining first European domination and ultimately world hegemony. They discovered that through financial and industrial prowess and manipulation they could attain their goals without having to fire a shot. Goals did not change only methods and tactics.
Christians of the fundamentalist variety in their own way have adapted and are using different methods to attain their aims and goals. They freely admit it on their sites.
That you are not personally bothered is not relevant it’s not about you at least directly.
Christianity is antisemitic and it’s based on the negation of Judaism.
@ yamit82:
Nation is not a race.
Not even an ethnicity.
Though shared ethnicity is common within a nation.
No nation is ethnically pure, and should not be. Ethnically pure nation would degenerate.
Nation is people sharing important and unique culture and history.
Nation is also a commitment to mutual defense like an extended family.
If someone attacked my brother, I would come to his defense even if I were to pay for it with my life. The same with my fellow Jews, even if they are idiots. If they are attacked by Jew-hater for being Jews, I will come to their defense in every way I can.
Members of nation also share history. They identify with shared history. Thus to me the history of Jews living in Spain, Usbekistan, Iran, Lithuania, or Morocco, is also my history. And we all accept ancient Israel as our ancient homeland. For many nations religions were essential in formation of their national identity as Hinduism for Indians. But also Catholiticsm for Poles, an Russian Orthodox church for the Russians.
Yet, the Russian nationalism, the love of Russia, and the Russian nation can exist without the Russian Orthodox religion. Like wise Shintoism was essential for the formation of Japanese national identity, but even without Shintoism, Japanese are a distinct nation.
I am not really writing this for you, because I know that your mind is closed, you already have all the conclusions and is extremely judgmental of anyone else’s perspective.
All historians agree that to be a nation a people must have a common territory (land with defined borders) Common language, common culture and common history.
None of those criteria are applicable to Jews. So what makes the Jews a nation?
You are correct that mutual defense can be family, clan, tribe and individual communities also of nations. America for example is a nation made up of people from many nations agreeing to live according to a et of idea, principles and values but she is not a nation in a classical sense of the term.
In recent history where were the Jews coming to the aid of their (brothers and sisters in Europe?) (In Israel in 48, and in any of our wars?)
How many of our wars did you participate in?
@ yamit82:
We are going in circles. And repeating.
Not true. Many nations survived without borders and under foreign domination. Few nations like Jews and Gypsies managed to survive while being dispersed.
In Europe, Jew have always been seen by the natives as a foreign nation living in exile.
Anyway, you think that Jews are a religion. I say we are a nation.
To me someone who converts to Judaism, is not a real Jew, more like a guest. Perhaps a welcome guest, but not a part of the tribe yet.
Anyway, as I said, we have already shared our views. We both know what the other thinks, and we are repeating ourselves. I don’t see much point in continuing.
@ Viiit:
Not quite while I know what you think you don’t yet know what I think at least based on your comments.
The Torah defines Jews as a religio-nation with a specific territory.
A Nation based on three legs, People-hood, religion and a specific land or a Chosen People and a Chosen Land both based of the Torah narrative and obligations.
You allow the gentiles to define your identity? Millions of Jews converted to both Islam and Christianity especially in Spain and Portugal. A minority accepted exile. Few Jews returned from Babylonia some 40,000. Our sages said only about 20% of the Hebrews left Egypt most stayed put and were consumed in the Plagues with the Egyptians.
There is only one unifying factor that has united Iraqi Jews, Ethiopian, Indian, S. American Jews, German and European Jews and American/ Canadian Jews and that glue whether you like it or not accept it or not is Judaism.
It is noteworthy that Jewish history in Europe is longer than our history in the Land of Israel. Sephardi and Ashkenazi Jews have almost nothing in common except Judaism. The gulf between we Israelis and the diaspora is also widening each year.
@ Shy Guy:
The Jewish experience is so intensely bitter-sweet. Anyone want to argue with that?! You have suffered crushing defeats and atrocities, yes. But also amazing victories: moral, military and artistic. A dramatic, bitter-sweet relationship with your Messiah just fits the pattern.
Isaiah 53 is where God tells you – ahead of time – that you would (initially) reject your Messiah:
Is this ‘second Joshua’ despised by you?
Do you reject him?
Do you believe his report?
Do you hold him in low esteem?
Do you believe he was punished by God in his death?
Did his Jewish peers defend him?
It’s all part of the crazy plan. Who knows the mind of God indeed!?
yamit82 Said:
That is an ad hominen attack.
Viiit Said:
Except for the Thuggee, a religious cult which worshipped Kali, the Indian god with a chain of male p_enises around her waist. Photo at link.
They were not specifically antisemite, they would murder anyone. They are a good example though of so called “peaceful” religions in India. They hate the G-d* of the Bible.
*Pr 8:36 But he that sinneth against me wrongeth his own soul: all they that hate me love death.
yamit82 Said:
Christianity is not antisemitic because Yeshua was Jewish and Christianity is based on the fulfillment of the promises in the Left Half of the Bible.
Viiit Said:
That is an ad hominem attack, even if it is true.
@ yamit82:
I am aware of the historical and mythological events that you are referring to in this post.
I have a different understanding of them and don’t want to repeat myself.
Just one note. It is indeed true that religious and national identity of the Jewish people were inseparable for most of our past. This however does not mean that this applies to the present, let alone future.
I have also shown you that this is the case with other nations as well, e.g. Hindus. The very words “India”, “Hindi”, “Hindu” all have the same root for a reason. Hinduism was what united the linguistically and ethnically very different people of South, north and East. Today however there is an unmistakable national identity that survives identification with the religion.
Likewise with the Jewish people.
As far as I am concerned this conversation boils down to one thing:
I consider you and other fanatics like you as par of our people, and you don’t consider me, and other non-believers to be a part.
The funny thing is that fanatics like you would not have a country to live in, if it was not for atheists, and non-religious Jews who founded that country in early 19 hundreds.
Enough.
@ Teshuvah:
Teshuvah
Not all ad hominem attacks are logical fallacies. This one is stating a verifiable fact.
I have never studied Judaism, and have very limited interest in it.
I am ok about being ignoramus in areas that don’t interest me.
I have however read the bible and have my own understanding of it. An understanding that is much different form both yours and Yamit’s.
@ Teshuvah:
Well, Teshuvah, I disagree with you.
Christianity is an antisemitic religion.
It claims that Jews are the murderers of Jesus Christ. In other hand that Jews are collectively responsible for murdering Mr. God.
When Pilate saw that he was getting nowhere, but that instead an uproar was starting, he took water and washed his hands in front of the crowd. “I am innocent of this man’s blood,” he said. “It is your responsibility!”
All the people answered, “Let his blood be on us and on our children!”
The above forgery the most disgusting lie ever aimed at the Jewish people. Millions of Jews have died from the hand of Christians. Christianity was the root of genocidal antisemitism that culminated in the Hitlerite Holocaust. And now this hitlerite hatred has been transplanted to the Muslims.
@ Teshuvah:
There is nothing wrong in criticizing another person if such critic is relevant to the subject of the conversation. For example we could discuss your attitude towards Jews and call it antisemitic. This is an attack on your person, but it is relevant and based in facts, then it is not a logical fallacy.
Ad hominem attacks are only a logical fallacy in cases where they are irrelevant.
For example, If I said that “Jesus is a myth”, and you said that “I was a pedophile”, that would be a logical fallacy of ad hominem. Because me being, or not being a pedophile has nothing to do with the subject.
@ Viiit:
Viiit, the whole point of Jesus/Yeshua/Joshua’s life was to free us from our sin by taking it upon himself as *the* atoning sacrifice. (That’s what the Temple sacrifices pointed to.)
His death was not an accident. It was his purpose. Therefore there’s no one to ‘blame’ or to seek retribution against.
Calvary Said:
The idea of God sacrificing his “only” son” for some ones sin being extremely, unbelievably idiotic, sick and insane. However this is not my point. My point was that that forgery that you consider to be your holy scripture says that supposedly the Jews said “let his blood be upon us and on our future generation”. This is antisemitic.