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  • November 21, 2012

    Obama demands that it Israel conquers Hamas, she must turn Gaza over to PA

    This may or may not be true. I have yet to read any other source that says the same thing. Ted Belman

    BREAKING: Gaza Ceasefire To Take Effect Tonight ( And The Back Story)
    Rob Miller
    , AMERICAN THINKER

    Now, here’s what actually happened.

    According to a couple of my notorious lil’ birdies who are very much in a position to know, the Israelis fully intended to go into Gaza and eradicate Hamas. A country like Israel doesn’t call up that many reserves and affect its economy unless they were serious about the matter.

    But then the Obama Administration intervened.


    They were perfectly happy for Israel to go in to Gaza and take out Hamas, but insisted that they then turn Gaza over to the Palestinian Authority. This was supposed to strengthen PA President Mahmoud Abbas as ‘Palestine’s savior . As as a kicker, President Obama insisted that Israel immediately declare a Palestinian State in Gaza and most of Judea and Samaria, including areas currently under Israeli sovereignty from which the Jewish residents would then be removed. These were also to be turned over to Abbas.

    If the Israelis were unwilling to have the IDF do Mahmoud Abbas’ dirty work for him and then give up large areas populated by Jews, then the Obama Administration told the Israelis the U.S. would not back an IDF ground assault in Gaza.

    So they Israelis took the ceasefire, essentially meaning that Hamas is going to be left in place to regroup and fight another day. And can claim a victory.

    As a sop for being cooperative, President Obama said in a statement that he congratulated PM Netanyahu for accepting the truce and that the U.S. would use the opportunity offered by a ceasefire to intensify efforts to help Israel address its security needs, especially the issue of the smuggling of weapons and explosives into Gaza.

    How that is going to happen is, shall we say, problematical. Apparently — wait for it — The White House expects the new Muslim Brotherhood government in Egypt to take charge of policing Hamas. After all, that approach worked so well in keeping Hezbollah in Lebanon from rearming after the 2006 war, even with a UN peacekeeping force on the ground.

    The President also said that he was committed to seeking additional funding for Iron Dome and other U.S.-Israel missile defense programs.

    What’s really behind this, of course, is an effort to strengthen Egypt’s Mohammed Morsi and his Muslim Brotherhood government as a regional player and improve ties between the Islamists and the U.S.

    It also takes the heat off Morsi since had Israel gone into Gaza, there would have been widespread agitating for Egypt to send ‘volunteers’ to fight the Jews.

    We’ll see if this takes hold. I’d be surprised if it didn’t, since it’s mostly on Hamas’ terms.

    Rob Miller writes for Joshuapundit. His work has appeared in The Jerusalem Post, The Los Angeles Times, The Atlanta Journal-Constitution, The San Francisco Chronicle, Real Clear Politics, Andrew Breitbart’s Big Peace and other publications.

  • Posted by Ted Belman @ 11:15 pm | 140 Comments »

    140 Comments to Obama demands that it Israel conquers Hamas, she must turn Gaza over to PA

    1. Yidvocate says:

      Interesting speculation. I wouldn’t be surprised at all if it were true.

    2. drjb says:

      Bunch of nonsense! Obama, the EU, etc, etc. All convenient excuses for the incompetence of the israeli leadership.
      Bibi let us all down. His “surgical strikes” accomplished nothing.
      Hamas are partying, and they should. They went toe to toe against a so called superior army, and they won.
      Israelis remain in constant danger of rockets, and its governments can only muster a “defense”. What a joke. A sad joke. Israel has no future under this type of defeatist leadership. No wonder there are so many yordim.

    3. Canadian Otter says:

      DO NOT DESPAIR – You’ll have to hunker down for four years. DO NOT underestimate this US govt. It managed to unleash a mega-revolution in the ME without getting dirty. (Benghazi will soon be forgotten, along with all the other Democrat scandals.) We can’t even imagine what they’re capable of inflicting on their enemies – domestic or foreign. ~~~ But you still have Judea and Samaria. Take care of the political home front. Organize an effective opposition to surrendering even a tiny part of the heartland. Be extremely vigilant and stop Arab encroachment everywhere. Fight the fake-right wing, and support a pro-annexation national movement (secular & religious). Educate those who are still deluded about land for peace, and encourage those who have given up the fight against Two States. ~~~ Create your own sophisticated PR and strengthen links with a wider number of allies. ~~~ You have so much work to do. Get ready for an election that will eventually replace the appeasing Israeli leadership. ~~~ This is all a very exciting challenge. Work to take back the power you handed over to political parties that are either incapable or unwilling to defend your safety, your land, and your rights.

    4. Avigail says:

      WTH, seriously?

      I’m betting the house this is Shabak spin on four cylinders.

      IsraelMatzav had it earlier and it’s completely unsourced. The Hebrew text comes from Nowhere Land and we’re supposed to swallow it as “What really happened?”

      These so called “leaders” just can’t take responsibilities for anything. It’s Obama’s fault! It’s the EU’s fault! My dog made me do it!

      How convenient.

      Reality: they just screwed us royally, that’s it.

      Let’s screw them back at the ballot box.

    5. roamnrab says:

      Truly, I suspected something like this trickery by the Master Trickster Obama, all along. He is NO ‘AMATEUR’, he’s about as slick as they come!

    6. yamit82 says:

      @ Canadian Otter:

      Good advice!!

      @ drjb:

      I agree!

      What’s wrong with this?

      Sounds very supportive, doesn’t it?

      White House has condemned the Tel Aviv bus attack.

      “Our thoughts and prayers are with the families of those injured, and with the people of Israel,” White House press secretary Jay Carney said, according to US media reports. “These attacks against innocent Israeli civilians are outrageous.”

      “The United States will stand with our Israeli allies, and provide whatever assistance is necessary to identify and bring to justice the perpetrators of this attack. The United States reaffirms our unshakeable commitment to Israel’s security and our deep friendship and solidarity with the Israeli people.” :)

      ****Obama Promised a lot more money for Iron Dome? Cutting 5-10 worthless, useless and unnecessary ministries and ministers would pay for Iron Dome without American strings attached gifts… (bribes).****

    7. yamit82 says:

      2 of Israels inner cabinet ministers to vote against the agreement were Eli Ishai and Yuval Steinitz.

      Likud primaries next week. Could be an interesting show.

    8. Canadian Otter says:

      Otterly confused! This is getting crazier by the minute. This article is about a meeting that allegedly took place between a Palestinian diplomat and an Israeli one. This plot gets more entangled than a thriller, and way more intriguing. There’s a lot I could speculate, but it just gave me a headache and I need to take three aspirin extra strength right now.

      http://israelmatzav.blogspot.ca/2012/11/palestinian-diplomat-told-israeli.html#links

    9. yamit82 says:

      Palestinian ambassador tells Israeli counterpart: Hamas must go
      In a meeting in the capital in which they both serve, Palestinian from Gaza tells Israeli that the offices destroyed by IDF operation are not important. ‘The real offices are the mosques which are connected to a widespread network of tunnels. Everything happens underground

      Here’s some of what the telegram said, and then we’ll discuss a few takeaways: ( From Israel Matzav) See comment#8

      The Palestinian ambassador said that if Israel expanded the operation in Gaza, it must work to overthrow Hamas, instead of stopping in the middle, as it did in Operation Cast Lead in 2008. “If there should be a ground operation in Gaza, this time he expects to see [Hamas prime minister] Ismail Haniyeh and [high-ranking Hamas leader] Mahmoud al-Zahar in their underwear, as he put it,” the Israeli ambassador wrote, quoting his Palestinian colleague. “Otherwise, there is no sense in another operation, as big as it may be.”

      Later on in the telegram, the Israeli ambassador repeated some harsh statements that the Palestinian ambassador had made against Hamas. “The Hamas offices that were destroyed are not important. The real offices are the mosques, which are connected to a widespread network of tunnels. Everything happens underground,” the Palestinian ambassador said. “Hamas has no regrets over the destruction in Gaza. On the contrary. Hamas gets a great deal of economic and political benefit from the terrible destruction because of the large donations that will come from the world and the political image of the organization that stands on the front line against Israel.”

      The Palestinian continued his verbal attack on Hamas and the Arab world. “The call to open the Rafah border crossing is nothing but lip service,” he said. “Hamas has no problem with it being closed – that only adds to the profit Hamas makes from the tunnels…. The Arab world leans more in Hamas’ direction these days, and Egypt takes the lead in that. The Egyptian prime minister’s visit to Gaza would never have taken place in Mubarak’s time…. The Arabs’ pilgrimage to Gaza focuses attention exclusively on Hamas, which is accumulating points among the Palestinian public and in the Arab world.”

      After venting his anger against Hamas, the Palestinian ambassador turned his criticism on the man who had appointed him to the position: Palestinian Authority Chairman Mahmoud Abbas. He claimed that Abbas and his advisers believe that the military operation in Gaza is a conspiracy to sabotage the Palestinian action in the United Nations.

      This is how the Israeli ambassador described the Palestinian ambassador’s statements in his telegram to the Foreign Ministry: “Abu Mazen never troubled to bring the residents of Gaza close to him. He does not like Gaza, and if he could get rid of it, he would be happy to do so. Therefore, he is in no hurry to visit Gaza to show leadership and presence. The reason has nothing to do with security. He could have arranged such a visit with a foreign leader, thus making an unequivocal statement that Gaza is part of the future Palestinian state. Currently, this is not sufficiently clear, and time is working against the Palestinian Authority and its chairman. One way or another, Abu Mazen’s time is more or less up. The problem is who will replace him.”

    10. yamit82 says:

      @ Canadian Otter:

      Sorry i didn’t see your post before I posted mine, maybe it was in moderation at the time? ;)

      Watch this:

    11. Canadian Otter says:

      @ yamit82:
      This US administration has lost all shame. It does not even try to give the appearance of respect for Israel. (Re: exchange between reporter and US Govt. spokesperson you cited.) ~~~~ As I was watching it, it reminded me of “In the Garden of Beasts” by Erik Larson. It’s about US ambassador William E. Dodd’s tenure in Berlin between 1933 and 1937. Although Jews were being subjected to all kinds of degrading and violent treatment by the Nazis, this ambassador refrained himself from denouncing it. “He favored restraint. From the perspective of his role as ambassador, he found these attacks more nuisance than dire emergency, and in fact he tried whenever possible to limit press attention.” (P 105) He thought his embassy had too many Jewish staff, which would make visiting German officials uncomfortable. P165 ~~~ When he met Hitler, he was convinced he was sincere about wanting peace. (P 159) He even characterized Hitler as a romantic. (The way Che Guevara and Jihadists are given an aura of romanticism these days.) In later years Dodd became outspoken in his criticism of the Nazis, but mentioned atrocities against Jews only to bolster his arguments against that regime, not – in my opinion – because he genuinely cared. ~~~ Amb. Dodd was not one of the old boys, filled with the usual anti-Semitism. He was in comparison to other diplomats a rather decent guy. But still, Jewish suffering had not been his concern when he had the power to help them. He had other diplomatic priorities in Germany at the time.

    12. Dont give that mazer BO credit for smarts. Evil, yes, smart no!
      It aint him. it is the powers — money power –that put him in the WH, and keeps him there, and does the plotting.
      He is but a mere puppet in their hands.

    13. Canadian Otter says:

      THE VATICAN, always true to its corrupt and anti-Semitic nature:

      Israel National News:

      The Vatican on Gaza: Israel is a Baby-Killer” – Not a word was heard from the Vatican all the years Sderot babies were in mortal danger. They began noticing the violence last week. – Cardinal Gianfranco Ravasi, President of the Vatican Council for Culture, commenting on the war between Israel and Hamas, delivered a severe attack on the Jewish people: “I think of the ‘massacre of the innocents’. Children are dying in Gaza, their mothers’ shouts is a perennial cry, a universal cry. The Vatican official’s modern blood libel against Israel was delivered during the presentation of Pope Benedict’s new book about the life of Jesus. However, Ravasi’s theme – the Jews as Herod, who killed all the innocent babies because his heart was set on killing Jesus – was much beloved by Medieval organizers of pogroms.
      http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/162368

    14. Donald freyman says:

      @ Goldi Steiner, Founder and Chair of Canadians for Israel’s Legal Rights (CILR):

      Bibi bet on the wrong horse. He put his influence and favor backing Romney and lost. Obama, as a result of Clinton’s successful negotiations of the truce is now in a very strong position to extract concessions from Bibi.

      The morale of the story is always hedge your bets and don’t be a big gambler. Not with the fate of your country at stake.

    15. Michael Devolin says:

      “Amb. Dodd was not one of the old boys, filled with the usual anti-Semitism. He was in comparison to other diplomats a rather decent guy. But still, Jewish suffering had not been his concern when he had the power to help them.”

      If “Jewish suffering had not been his concern when he had the power to help them”, then, NO, he was NOT a decent guy. “Silence is also an opinion.”

    16. Shy Guy says:

      Sorry, folks, our problem this time is not Obama. It’s Netanyahu & Co.

      Looking forward to Cast Lead III in 2-4 years and a return to mortar and rocket lobbing within 6 months or less.

      11 I am the LORD thy God, who brought thee up out of the land of Egypt;
      open thy mouth wide, and I will fill it.
      12 But My people hearkened not to My voice; and Israel would none of Me.
      13 So I let them go after the stubbornness of their heart, that they might walk in their own counsels.
      14 Oh that My people would hearken unto Me, that Israel would walk in My ways!
      15 I would soon subdue their enemies, and turn My hand against their adversaries.
      16 The haters of the LORD should dwindle away before Him; and their punishment should endure for ever.
      17 They [Israel] should also be fed with the fat of wheat; and with honey out of the rock would I satisfy thee.

      - Psalms 81 (Thursday’s Shire Shel Yom)

    17. C.R. says:

      This will allow the Nazi Muslim Brotherhood, aka Hamas–to rearm in preparation for another war!

      As such this so called cease fire–will not be in Israel’s best interest!

    18. C.R. says:

      @ Shy Guy:

      Sorry, folks, our problem this time is not Obama. It’s Netanyahu & Co.

      True!

    19. The “ceasefire” which Netanyahu, Barak and Liebnecht the Foreign Minister signed on to, and all that went before and will go after, represents the biggest, biggest danger of all time to Israel, and does in fact represent the end of the experiment of Israel in this form and if things continue will lead to Jews in Israel being massacred according to the laws of the Nazi Holocaust (maybe different methods but if you’re dead, you’re dead. That also applies to all Jews in the world, even those so well integrated (they think), those that sit on panels of radio station discussions and attack settlements of Jews in Judea etc.

      I am fully behind the Jews. Christianity robbed the Jews of their religion and used the Romans to inflict the First Holocaust and Great Dispersal. Paul was a liar and instigated THAT Holocaust. The same thing happened under Islam. Islam again had to rob the Jews of their religion. This robbing of the Jews of their religion and do not overlook their CULTURE is always the prelide to Great Killings of the Jews.

      This is what has happened under Netanyahu, barak and Liebnecht.

      The military were well in position after they killed the thousand times over assasin who led Hamas Military. But then the leaders began to listen to Obama and Cameron. Clinton broke her visit to Asia, Obama was ringing every three hours.

      Like Begin on Sinai they caved in.

      The question now to ask is WHY did they cave in???

      Well they caved in and they cave in because essentially Judaism is by this stage in its life a CONSERVATIVE force.

      FACE IT! YOU MUST FACE IT!

      This is why on Israpundit Yamit82 refused to defend Mubarak against the Muslim Brotherhood. I argued with him but he only retains the power of insult in those situations.

      When it came to Libya there was not a chance that there would be any defence of Muammar Gadhafi on the principled basis that despite his antisemitism Gadhafi was opposed to the Muslim Brotherhood and Qaradawi/

      Israpundit is a very conservative force and that is why my views as a Marxist or Trotskyist or Leninist are savagely censured. Not just by the editor…this is a blanket censorship.

      Those are the real reasons that Netanyahu now places Israel at the beck and call of The Muslim Brotherthood in Egypt. BLOODY HELL AT THE BECK AND CALL OF MORSI!!!

      This is not at all the fault of Obama. This is the fault of the conservatism of Jewish leadership, in the final analysis the lies of Jews such as Steven Plaut against Marxism and Trotskyism, and so on the list is endless.

      I want Jews to be able to practice their ancient ideology and religion forever. But these living events are showing that Conservatism inside Judaism will lead Jews only to great betrayals. This latest is the worst and most dangerous.

      There is a crisis in capitalism as there was in 1929. This leads to a crisis in every country. This is ALL THE SAME CRISIS! It is precisely the same crisis of leadership!

      The difference with Israel and with Jews is obvious. That difference is Antisemitism.

    20. C.R. says:

      @ Felix Quigley:

      I am fully behind the Jews. Christianity robbed the Jews of their religion and used the Romans to inflict the First Holocaust and Great Dispersal. Paul was a liar and instigated THAT Holocaust.

      Quigley–you are an ignorant fool and a liar yourself–and you are off topic with the above nonsense!

      No one but the Jews themselves have robbed them of their relationship with God and of their rightful place in Israel; even to this day most Jews are still rebelling against God and causing themselves all manner of hurt–just as they have done for thousands of years!

    21. Michael Devolin says:

      “No one but the Jews themselves have robbed them of their relationship with God and of their rightful place in Israel; even to this day most Jews are still rebelling against God and causing themselves all manner of hurt–just as they have done for thousands of years!”

      Are you actually saying that Jews don’t have a “relationship” with their G-D? And how do you know this? You sound like the typical Christian anti-semite. Your arrogance is spellbinding.

    22. Michael Devolin says:

      “Israpundit is a very conservative force and that is why my views as a Marxist or Trotskyist or Leninist are savagely censured. Not just by the editor…this is a blanket censorship.”

      Mr. Quigley, this is simply the Jewish readership here telling you to STFU.

      Go back to Sinn Fein, Mr. Quigley. Save Ireland from its rampant anti-Jewish hatred. The Jews of Israel do not need you. Better yet, go back to Cuba where your shite is enforced by your insalubrious and twisted Marxism (or whatever the hell you believe in). Take a flying f***ing leap off a ten story building and save the readers of Israpundit (myself included) the bother of reading your traif (to borrow a “conservative” Jewish expression).

    23. C.R. says:

      @ Michael Devolin:
      I wrote most Jews–not all–learn to read each word–duh!

      Its basically impossible to be a genuine Christian and an anti-Semite–it is you Mr. Devolin who are ignorant and arrogantly so.

      Most Jews do not live according to the Tanakh, i.e, most Jews do not have a genuine relationship with God; if most Israeli Jews had a genuine relationship with God–then there would be no Godless Marxism in Israel and there would be no homosexual day parades in the streets of Yerushalayim–but these things exist en masse because the secular and often nonsecular Jews not only allow them–but arrogantly promote and exalt them above God’s commandments.

      Do you really believe the Jews God slaughtered by the tens of thousands in the past had a relationship with him? if you do–then you are an ignorant fool. These Godless Jews–rejected their God–and went whoring after false Gods–like most are today. God is not mocked by those who go through the motions while at the same time break his laws.

      Mr. Devolin–its time for you to wise up.

    24. Michael Devolin says:

      “Do you really believe the Jews God slaughtered by the tens of thousands in the past had a relationship with him?”

      Are you saying the 6 million Jewish men, women and children murdered by the Nazis during the Holocaust did not have a relationship with their G-D (not yours)? Am I reading you correctly?

    25. Michael Devolin says:

      “Its basically impossible to be a genuine Christian and an anti-Semite…”

      If you consider yourself, C.R., a “genuine” Christian, then, yes, it is possible to also be an anti-semite. You are proof of this fact. You are ignorant of your own religion (not mine).

    26. C.R. says:

      @ Michael Devolin:
      Once again–you are wrong and ignorant of Jewish history and of Christianity–but this does not matter to you Mr. Devolin as you have whored yourself to the lie and because you are about the lie you will unashamedly accuse those who love Israel of anti-Semitism you are a disgrace!

      And you did not refute any of my points with facts because you cannot–I am factually correct.

      If by chance you are thinking about Catholicism and their crusades–then again you are wrong–Roman Catholicism is not Christianity–they murdered Jews and also millions genuine Christians who would not bow down to their idol the pope during the inquisition.

    27. C.R. says:

      @ Michael Devolin:
      Mr. Devolin you seem to have problems following what is written and then responding logically according to what was written–but rather you respond emotionally; I was referring to biblical Jewish history when God did slaughter tens of thousands of Godless Jews–not to Nazi Germany!

      But many innocent Jews have been slaughtered in Israel because of the Godless decisions of many Godless Jewish leaders–this is a fact.

      You need to stay on topic–but this is difficult for you Mr. Devolin because you are ignorant and think emotionally and irrationally–you truly do need to wise up.

    28. Michael Devolin says:

      “…but this does not matter to you Mr. Devolin as you have whored yourself to the lie and because you are about the lie you will unashamedly accuse those who love Israel of anti-Semitism you are a disgrace!”

      I am laughing uncontrollably right now. (Where is Dweller when I need him!) I’ve been called a lot of things, but I’ve never been called a “whore”. This is freakin’ hilarious! As my Dad used to say when he was insulted, “Thanks for the compliment, and we’ll have another round, please.”

      “…this is difficult for you Mr. Devolin because you are ignorant and think emotionally and irrationally…”

      Look who’s calling the kettle black! LOLOLOL

    29. Bernard Ross says:

      So far i am not buying the idea that this is a situation being forced on BB. The extent of the “mutual admiration” expressed is more indicative of a deal, or strategy, having been made between Obama and BB.

      Regarding intimations of abbas gving up on gaza and a diplomat talking hamas must go, we must add new talk of Mashaal accepting 67 borders and the drift away from syria/Iran. There is another possibility, going back some years: that gaza will go back to egypt and that west bank will go back to jordan but that it will take years to accomplish the changeover from the 2 state solution because of the “arab street”. It could be possible with interim phases whereby the separation between the 2 is continued, gaza becomes a client entity of egypt, egypt takes resposibility for gaza(this has already happened). If we see Jordan becoming more involved with the west bank then perhaps this scenario is true. (Abbas, I believe, is closely related to Jordan).
      Where does the declaration of state come in? Gaza is much more a defacto state yet refuses to declare itself as such; PA is a non state but appearing to seek an interim recognition. Perhaps an interim recognition will result in a defacto reduction of the borders of the PA but give instead “recognition”. This can be a deal which proceeds as dog and pony show+ smoke and mirrors whereby Abbas defacto moves towards a deal but does not get assassinated for giving up some territory, in fact he does not give up territory but israel annexes some. then in time perhaps an affiliation or merging with Jordan. It is unlikely that Israel will expel the west bank arabs and therefore they will seek a solution where the west bank arabs are not part of Israel and the land will go with them. The question might be only how much land, this appears to be the Israeli direction. Splitting of gaza and PA, gaza under egypt, pa under jordan, no separate PA state only a non state “recognition” at the UN. Under this scenario there is no call for a link and more land can be given up to Israel under the table. Just an idea,scenario.

    30. Bernard Ross says:

      last comment in moderation
      I wanted to add to the end of that comment and scenario:
      The splitting of gaza and PA, the affiliation of gaza and egypt, the UN recognition of a non state on west bank, Israels reaction of annexing part of C, the resulting creation of under the table borders, an evolving move to associate resultant west bank wwith Jordan. This allows a reduced arab area of west bank, giving up of land under the table therefore no assasination of abbas. This is how the west bank gets less land and no state without appearing to agree.

    31. yamit82 says:

      @ C.R.:

      No one but the Jews themselves have robbed them of their relationship with God and of their rightful place in Israel; even to this day most Jews are still rebelling against God and causing themselves all manner of hurt–just as they have done for thousands of years!

      Let’s have an understanding. Judaism is for the Jews and only the Jews. Christianity in all of it’s forms and denominations are considered by we Jews as a sectarian cult. We reject the whole of your Christian beliefs as not only false but Pagan. We do not credit your god as ours and reject the concept that our G-d is yours. As Christianity is constituted today in all it’s various forms we conclude that there is absolutely no connection between the two, [Judaism and Christianity], except where you have lifted direct quotes from our scriptures.

      However Individual and collective Jewry relate to our G-d is our business and our concern not yours or any non Jew.

    32. yamit82 says:

      @ C.R.:
      C.R. Said:

      I was referring to biblical Jewish history when God did slaughter tens of thousands of Godless Jews–
      But many innocent Jews have been slaughtered in Israel because of the Godless decisions of many Godless Jewish leaders–this is a fact.

      whose god is doing the slaughtering ours or yours?
      Can you prove your contention as fact?

      let’s see what you got?

    33. yamit82 says:

      @ C.R.:

      C.R. Said:

      Once again–you are wrong and ignorant of Jewish history and of Christianity–but this does not matter to you Mr. Devolin as you have whored yourself to the lie and because you are about the lie you will unashamedly accuse those who love Israel of anti-Semitism you are a disgrace!

      It is possible from a christian fundamentalist POV to love Israel (The Christian idealization) and not love Jews. Even I a Jew do not love all Jews. If a Christian really loved Jews he would respect our religion and cease proselytizing efforts. Christians can’t love Jews because you do not respect them nor respect what we believe.

    34. CuriousAmerican says:

      yamit82:
      It is possible from a christian fundamentalist POV to love Israel (The Christian idealization) and not love Jews. Even I a Jew do not love all Jews. If a Christian really loved Jews he would respect our religion and cease proselytizing efforts. Christians can’t love Jews because you do not respect them nor respect what we believe.

      In find it amazing Yamit that you want to impose your views on others.

      For ex: Jews do not prosyletize to Christians; therefore Christians should not prosyletize to Jews. seem to be the standard argument.

      Why?

      Why are Christians obliged to play by your game rules?

      You say you are not imposing anything; when actually you are imposing your rules.

      The essence of Christianity is to go and make disciples “ … first to the Jew, then to the Gentile.” (Rom 1:16)

      To say we are not allowed to try, is to force us to obey your rules.

      So even when you pretend to be unimposing, you are being most imposing. Christians are not obliged to play by rules stacked against them by you.

      As long as no violence occurs, there is nothing wrong with prosyletizing.

      yamit82:However Individual and collective Jewry relate to our G-d is our business and our concern not yours or any non Jew.

      Well how a Christian prosyletizes might also be our business and “not yours;” and if done peaceably with a Jew to bring him to Christ, is also “not yours.” Or do you want to impose your will now on individual Jews?

      I see this mistake all the time. The rules of the game are framed to make Christianity impossible.

      Well, I reject your rules, Yamit82.

      You do not like to be controlled, then don’t control Christians. As long as their prosyletization is peaceable, then you have no cause to complain. In the West today, especially the USA, it is peaceable.

      yamit82: We reject the whole of your Christian beliefs as not only false but Pagan.

      Before you are so quick to point out pagan beliefs in Christianity, where did the Yarmulke (the kippot) come from?

      It did not come from Scripture.

      Do not say the Talmud mentions it, because Isaiah told you otherwise. The Talmud is commentary, not binding.

      Isaiah 8:20 To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them.

      The word is the bible – in this case I quote Jewish scripture Isaiah, wherein the Jewish people are told to stick to Scripture and not go beyond it, because if they do, there is NO light in them.

      So why did the rabbis disregard Isaiah 8:20, go beyond Scripture, and recommend the kippot?

      Hmmm! Could it be that the kippot was borrowed from the Arabs in Babylon during the Bablyonian captivity?

      Muslim Arabs have skull caps.

      Oh! you think this is crazy. Right now, Hasidic women are trying to wear frumkas, a concept taken from the Muslim burqas. So apparently, Jews do take up pagan practices from time to time.

      Both Christianity, and Judaism, BOTH, have incorporated pagan practices into their rituals; but the core theologies of both religions are not pagan, no matter what you say. But people who live in glass houses should not throw bricks; least of all you, Yamit82.

      Stop with your arrogance.

      This is not even prosyletization. This is just saying: Stop with you one-sided arrogance.

      It is not your call to tell Christians how to practice their religion which requires prosyletization.

      Christians are not required to play your game your way.

      PS: I am glad no harm came to you during the war.

    35. Donald freyman says:

      @ roamnrab:
      one word answer. HOGWASH

    36. Michael Devolin says:

      “However Individual and collective Jewry relate to our G-d is our business and our concern not yours or any non Jew.”

      There it is. Well said, Yamit. Thankyou, sir.

      Shabat shalom.

    37. Michael Devolin says:

      A Jewish friend (a fellow JDL Canada member) and I are driving to Toronto on Saturday to take part in a JDL counter-protest in front of the Israeli Embassy there against pro-Hamas protesters. These scum do their protesting on Shabat because they figure no Jews will show up there. But my Jewish friends and I (JDL Canada) will be there. Will be thinking of you, Yamit.

    38. SHmuel HaLevi says:

      @ Canadian Otter:
      A group of volunteers have been conducting polls, cumulative data gathering polls before elections for four election cycles. We concentrate in Israel’s North. Data is gathered ONLY at bus & train stations, HMO’s. supermarkets, restaurants, Malls, sport centers, are asked very simple questions. So far we have received lists of data including 1380 responses. Not enough yet to form a statistically proven FOM. Figure of Merit).
      The following is what we can obtain so far and until we have at least 5000 data items will not release solid forecasts.

      Likud-Beitenu- 34 – RAF. Regression analysis forecast, minus 2. Present: Combined MK’s count is 42
      Labor – 31 – RAF. plus 1. Present: MK count is 8
      New NRP – 12 – RAF N/C Present: unknown as it is new setting.
      Islamic – 10 – RAF N/C Present 10 MK’s
      SHAS – 9 – RAF N/C Present 11 MK’s.
      LAPID – 9 – RAF mimus 1
      AM Chazak – 6 – RAF plus 1.
      Other parties data is too small for use as reference.
      Mofaz and Inependence so far are not represented.

    39. C.R. says:

      @ yamit82:
      Mine was not a discussion of Christianity until Devolin brought it up.

      I have never come here to discuss Christianity–and have not until, heretofore two ignorant people have brought it up and now with you Yamit three.

      From the Tanakh, Israel is not just the land–its also the people, all inclusive.

      what others do or not do in regard to either loving or not loving Israel is irrelevant–I choose to love and support both.

      And I have never proselytized other Jews.

    40. C.R. says:

      @ yamit82:

      No one but the Jews themselves have robbed them of their relationship with God and of their rightful place in Israel; even to this day most Jews are still rebelling against God and causing themselves all manner of hurt–just as they have done for thousands of years!

      The above is factually correct–and one need only read the Tanakh to know this–if you or anyone else takes offense to me calling attention to this reality–then that is on you and them–the truth often hurts for some.

      Let’s you and I have an understanding Yamit, I do know what other Jews believe about Christianity–you are not educating me.

      I have never proselytized another Jew with Christianity; and I only bring up Christianity here when ignorant people direct that toward me–otherwise the subject never comes up with me!

    41. SHmuel HaLevi says:

      @ SHmuel HaLevi:
      Correction. Labor is 21 and not 31. A typo.

    42. MIchael Levy says:

      @ drjb:
      Since Israel controls the monetary flow into Gaza, she should deduct the cost of every Iron dome misslie which Israel used against Gaza from those funds. It might just teach them something!

    43. Daniel HaCohen says:

      @ yamit82:

      No one but the Jews themselves have robbed them of their relationship with God and of their rightful place in Israel; even to this day most Jews are still rebelling against God and causing themselves all manner of hurt–just as they have done for thousands of years!

      This is a true statement–it is the Jewish people themselves who are their biggest enemy.

    44. Shmuel HaLevi says:

      @ Daniel HaCohen:
      We have coined a new denomination for those people. unJews.
      Every day that goes by their name is becoming more and more fitting. unJews

    45. Daniel HaCohen says:

      @ Shmuel HaLevi:
      Your comment reminds me of Ehud Barak.

    46. Michael Devolin says:

      “It is not your call to tell Christians how to practice their religion which requires prosyletization.”

      It’s Yamit’s call on a Jewish blog, Curious American. Your “missionizing” is a form of harrassment to Jews (you don’t get it because your religion doesn’t get it), and if you feel you’re being imposed upon, it’s like tv here: turn the channel/go to another blog. Otherwise, STFU about your religious beliefs. You are not Jewish, you are an “unJew”, and your Christian beliefs (and those of every other Christian frequenting this blog) are an insult to the Jewish people and their Judaism. No-one here wants to listen to your traif, most of all me. You are what Louis Simpson called a “hungry ghost”: you latch on to anyone who will listen to your turgid utterances. Your only lucky break on this blog is that Dweller has patience for you: I don’t.

      Ted, you need to step in here (if I may be so bold) and put a lid on this crap. Enough already. Not much wonder so many Jews believe that “Der oilem iz a goilem.” Or as my grandfather used to say, “Assholes are born in tens.”

    47. Michael Devolin says:

      “Since Israel controls the monetary flow into Gaza…”

      A Jewish friend remarked yesterday to me that it was insane that Israel should supply an enemy with electricity and “monetary flow”. Insane indeed. And the world demands this of Israel. Even more insane.

    48. Ted Belman says:

      Enough with the religious stuff. I will delete any comments that involve a religious discussion. I will also put the offender on moderation.

    49. E F says:

      The WH has been trying to get rid of Benjamin N. and it looks like he fell into the trap. The Egyptian fox has the key to the henhouse. The WH has screwed America royally to be a world leader. They set up governments and none consider it is to secure global domination. By who? Nation shall rise against nation, kingdom against kingdom. Leaders of nations choose which kingdom they side with. That, my friend, is bottom line. You can disagree, you have that right. It is my understanding after “watching” things unfold. What is written is y written.Avigail:

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