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  • December 31, 2012

    New Polls: ‘Most Israelis back peace deal that guards security’

    This is very close to the Clinton parameters. According to the suggested deal we would also keep Ariel and Maaleh Adumin because both are settlement blocs. How does one reconcile this with the JCPA poll that found:

      A new poll by the Jerusalem Center for Public Affairs shows that the vast majority of Israelis are opposed to an Israeli withdrawal from Judea and Samaria. The poll, taken in November, showed that 76% of all Israelis (83% of Israeli Jews) do not believe that a withdrawal to the 1948 armistice lines will bring Israelis a secure peace.

      The large majority of all Israelis said they would change their vote if – 53% if a party proposed leaving the Jordan Valley, 69% for Jerusalem. Among Israeli Jews, the figures were 59% and 79% respectively.

      Among those voters, 50% said that they would not vote for a party advocating withdrawal from the Jordan Valley, and 67% from Jerusalem.

      According to this poll, A high percentage of left-to-center voters would vote right wing if their original party intended to make such significant land concessions.

    By JPOST.COM STAFF

    2 polls find that 2/3 of Israelis would vote for peace agreement, including more than half of Likud Beytenu, Bayit Yehudi voters.

    About two-thirds of Israelis would vote in favor of a peace agreement with the Palestinians if a deal which took Israel’s security concerns into account was brought to a referendum, two polls conducted on behalf of the S. Daniel Abraham Center for Middle East Peace found.

    The Dahaf Institute poll found that 67% of Israelis say they would support a peace agreement between Israel and the Palestinians if it takes into account Israeli security concerns.


    Palestinian refugees would have a right of return to the Palestinian state only as part of the agreement.

    Borders would be based on the 1967 lines with agreed upon land swaps, with the large settlement blocs remaining under Israeli sovereignty.

    Jewish neighborhoods of Jerusalem would be under Israeli sovereignty and Arab neighborhoods under Palestinian sovereignty. The Old City within the walls would be without sovereignty and jointly administered by the United States, Israel and the Palestinians. The Holy Places would be under the same religious supervision as current arrangements (for example, the Kotel would be under Israeli supervision and responsibility).

    Overall support for the deal was identical to that found in Dahaf polls asking the same question in 2011 and 2010.

    The poll found that the percentage of Israelis supporting the deal was higher if certain principles were added to the base agreement, such as a US guarantee of Israel’s security as a Jewish state (70%) and the disarmament of Hamas as a condition to the implementation of the deal (74%).

    The study showed that a small majority of Likud Beytenu (57%) and Bayit Yehudi (53%) voters would support such an agreement while Labor and Tzipi Livni Party voters would overwhelmingly support such a deal (92%).

    The study interviewed a representative sample of 500 people.

    A Smith Consulting poll found similar support for such an agreement (68%).

    The Smith poll found higher support for the agreement among adults over the age of 50, among the secular and the Arab sector and among those with higher levels of education.

    The Smith Poll was conducted among a representative sample of 600 people.

  • Posted by Ted Belman @ 1:22 pm | 25 Comments »

    25 Comments to New Polls: ‘Most Israelis back peace deal that guards security’

    1. Shy Guy says:

      Either the poll is duping us or the people are that stupid.

      Either way, bridge sales will thrive.

    2. Canadian Otter says:

      National Union and other nationalist leaders may be partly responsible for the appalling state of denial afflicting so many Israelis. The National Union had four years to go on an aggressive informational campaign all over the country, explaining the historical and legal basis for Israeli ownership of the land, and to expose details of EXPLICIT Arab intentions to renege on agreements and to destroy all Jewish presence in the Middle East.

      Israelis have been subjected from childhood to a sort of mind-control by their leftist educators and journalists that needs to be patiently deprogrammed.

      The grassroots leadership has fallen short of focusing on this aspect of the fight for the land of Israel. It was not enough to build-build, they also needed to organize and educate the rest of the population.

      And National Union needed to be more than just a token nationalist presence in the Knesset opposing government leftist policies. They should have operated as agents for change in the mindset of ALL Israeli Jews.

    3. Canadian Otter says:

      My short comment is awaiting moderation

    4. NormanF says:

      It doesn’t mention who paid for the polls.

      But their framing Israeli responses with hypothetical “if pigs can fly” questions makes them worthless.

      That kind of peace deal will never happen – there is no “peace camp” on the Arab side and they’re not interested in peace with Israel – even on the basis of the much-ballyhooed famous “Clinton Parameters.”

      The kind of peace settlement “every knows is the only one attainable” is in fact unattainable. Since the polls won’t mention all the caveats and possible obstacles to an agreement, all they are selling Israelis is a fantasy.

    5. Max says:

      @ NormanF:

      What Norman and Shy guy said… I agree…

      First of all they don’t want peace for who ‘they’ are as of now, and second of all keeping every inch is the best security that Israel has, and third of all it didn’t work in the Great Gaza Giveaway aka “Land for Peace”?
      What is this? National Alzheimer’s?

      What will make them give up their Jihad to stop them drolling over that prize plum Israel .hmmmmm.. a mind boggling concept, yet the average North American has no idea that they have this Jihad which they know by it’s other name as “End the Occupation”.

    6. Ted Belman says:

      The US would have to force this deal upon both Israel and the Arabs for it to happen. Of course we get Maaleh Adumin, E1 and Ariel. If the borders could be such that no more than 50,000 Jews would have to be relocated in exchange for an equal number of Arabs being transplanted from problem areas such Kalkilyah and Tulkharm enabling us to widen our girth, I think the deal would fly in Israel. But I wonder how you can live cheek by jowl in Jerusalem. How do you have a border. Perhaps what is intended is an open city. Don’t see how that can work.

    7. Canadian Otter says:

      Why not a referendum? A clearly-worded referendum?

      If some people want to throw away the legal and historical right of the Jewish people to their land by relying on ‘opinion polls’, why not insist on a referedum for both Israel and the PA?

      Why isn’t this ever mentioned?

    8. the phoenix says:

      @ Canadian Otter:

      Why not a referendum? A clearly-worded referendum?

      Dear otter,
      Now THIS is a suggestion that I think should SOAR, never mind fly.
      Perhaps Ted could start just such a thread where we all put our thinking caps on and mould just such a position statement referendum, to be presented and promoted as a two prong approach:
      1. Grassroots contacts
      2. Given directly to those that hopefully will make a difference (eldad, Ben ari, feiglin….)
      Maybe it is a utopian view, maybe it is wishful thinking, but MAYBE those nationalist leaders might unite and fight under ONE BANNER…

    9. yamit82 says:

      Knesset Passes Referendum Law With Large Majority
      Referendum bill passes in Knesset with a majority of 65 MKs. Kadima leader Tzipi Livni earlier made a U-turn on the bill.
      AAFont Size
      By Tzvi Ben Gedalyahu and Elad Benari INN
      First Publish: 11/22/2010, 6:14 PM / Last Update: 11/22/2010, 11:55 PM

      The Knesset passed on Monday evening the bill that would require a referendum before any land officially under Israeli sovereignty is surrendered, specifically the Golan Heights and Jerusalejm. 65 MKs voted in favor of the bill while 33 opposed it.

      Labor ministers Ehud Barak, Binyamin Ben-Eliezer, Isaac Herzog, and Avishay Braverman did not participate in the vote. However, two other members of the Labor Party, Minister Shalom Simchon and Deputy Minister Matan Vilnai were present and voted in favor of the referendum.

      Prior to the vote, Prime Minister Binyamin Netanyahu’s office rejected the idea that the referendum law would hurt the chances for peace negotiations between Israel and its neighbors.

      “A referendum prevents an irresponsible agreement and on the other hand makes it possible to achieve a strong public backing for an agreement that will respond to Israel’s national interests,” said Netanyahu.

      A recently-passed law already required an absolute majority of 61 Knesset Members before any of the Golan could be handed over to Syria, which has been demanding the entire Golan Heights. A referendum would place a major obstacle if any government were able to win a majority in the Knesset for giving up the area and its rich water resources.

      The referendum bill also covers United Jerusalem and the rest of Israel except for Judea and Samaria which officially are under military control.

      Earlier on Monday Kadima leader Tzipi Livni made a U-turn on the bill the party once backed. The Kadima leader said her opposition to the Golan referendum bill is based on a principle that the Knesset, and not the general public, should have the final say on legislature. However, despite Kadima’s decision to oppose the referendum bill, two of its members, MKs Otniel Schneller and Eli Aflalo, voted in favor of the referendum.

      Consistent with her previous attacks on Prime Minister Binyamin Netanyahu, Livni said that he is a ”weak prime minister. This has nothing to do with left or right, but with decision-making in this democracy. There is one referendum, and that’s general elections, and the prime minister must say the same thing before and after the elections.”

      Her move to the left is surprising because Kadima formerly had encouraged the bill, which would create a major obstacle to any future effort to surrender any part of the Golan. However, her opposition is consistent with an almost automatic disagreement with every policy promoted by the prime minister and the Likud coalition.

      MK Livni lost a bitter contest to form the current coalition two years ago. She has claimed she should be heading the government because her party won one more seat than the Likud in the winter 2009 elections. However, she was not able to win over Yisrael Beiteinu, headed by Foreign Minister Avigdor Lieberman, and Shas, leaving her with minority support that did not enable her to form a coalition.

    10. Shy Guy says:

      yamit82 Said:

      specifically the Golan Heights and Jerusalejm

      Pathetic.

      Even a bill demanding a referendum for J&S would be pathetic.

      Both the Golan and Jerusalem have already been declared sovereign territory by Israel. How is this not a digression?

      Stupid Jews!

    11. yamit82 says:

      http://www.jpost.com/DiplomacyAndPolitics/Article.aspx?id=196447

      In defending the law, Netanyahu’s office stated that “any peace agreement requires wide national agreement, and this law guarantees that. It…prevents a situation in which agreements are obtained through parliamentary maneuvers which do not reflect the people’s desire.”

      It was an allusion to the infamous 1995 Oslo II vote, in which the then-dominant Labor-left bloc ensured passage only by bribing two purportedly right-wing MKs with cabinet seats and other perks.

      Yet Netanyahu, in a speech of his own on Tuesday, echoed Barak’s concern about perceptions of Israel, stating: “I have faith in the Israeli people. I think that Israel is a wise, intelligent nation, and I’m convinced that if we present an agreement, it will pass.”

      Prime Minister Binyamin Netanyahu said Tuesday afternoon.

      “Anyone making deals with national implications should not be worried about bringing those agreements before the nation,” he said during a visit to Israel Airspace Industries, next to Ben-Gurion International Airport. The prime minister added, “I think that the referendum law which passed in the Knesset yesterday is of utmost importance. It ensures that… if we enter into peace process, even one which could have historic results, the public knows that at the end of the day, it will decide: Not parliamentary maneuvering, not chance, but rather the nation will decide, and I have faith in the Israeli people. I think that Israel is a wise, intelligent nation, and I’m convinced that if we present an agreement, it will pass.”

      ************************************************

      Was Netanyahu, then, implying that only a stupid people would reject ceding East Jerusalem or the Golan? If so, he was either insulting the people he was purporting to praise or ignoring repeated polls that show the opposite of what he suggested.

      http://frontpagemag.com/2010/davidhornik/israel%E2%80%99s-referendum-law-protecting-democracy/2/

    12. Canadian Otter says:

      And what about a simultaneous referendum in the PA? Avigdor Lieberman stated this year that one can’t make agreements with governments, that one should make them with NATIONS.

      In the future peace accords must be signed between nations; agreements that are supported by the general public, and by major public figures in both countries. http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/158258

      Well, your politicians consider the PA Arabs a nation, so why not ask PA and Gaza Arabs? “Will you, darlings, be satisfied with that land and live in peace with your Jewish naighbors?”

      HA! HA! HA! It would be worth carrying out such referendum, if only for its hysterically comical value.

      Why do your leaders continue to insult your intelligence by using the word PEACE when what they really mean is SURRENDER and TERROR and CHAOS? Why do you let them?

    13. yamit82 says:

      He whose acts remove lands from the State’s territories and from its control will be sentenced to death, Knesset Member Arieh Eldad

      “There is not a sane nation in the world that gives up the territory of its homeland,” MK Eldad

      So far this includes both the Golan and Jerusalem.

      “the Golan Heights Law from 1981 applies the Israeli law on the Golan Heights as it is a sovereign part of the State of Israel. The Israeli Penal Code from 1977 defines in clause 97B the term ‘treason’:

      A person who caused a territory to be removed from the State’s sovereignty or enter the sovereignty of a foreign country, an act which could lead to a death sentence or life imprisonment.”

      The Relevant Law The text of the law referred to in part is as follows:

      Section B: Treason

      97 (a). A person who, with intent to violate the sovereignty of the state, commits an act that has the potential to violate the state’s sovereignty is liable to life imprisonment or the death penalty.

      97 (b). A person who, with intent that any area be withdrawn from the sovereignty of the state or placed under the sovereignty of a foreign state, commits an act that has the potential to bring this about is liable to life imprisonment or the death penalty…

      100. A person who commits an act revealing any one of the intentions listed in sections 97, 98 or 99 is liable to ten years imprisonment.

      ‘Giving away Golan is like giving away Tel Aviv’

      Israel’s Insane leaders

      : “Once Assad’s regime is toppled, the Golan Heights will turn into the radical spearhead against Israel, and not only from Syria: People will be coming from Iran, Afghanistan and elsewhere. Terrorism will be two-pronged – both from the Golan and from Lebanon. Life in the north will turn into an unbearable nightmare, yet the situation will be irreversible. The Golan will shift from being an empty region to being a home to one million zealous Syrians.

      The Sinai Peninsula is so large that the situation there is always reversible. On the Jordanian front we didn’t renounce anything, and on the Palestinian front we can always reoccupy any territory. Yet with Syria the situation will be different: From an empty buffer zone, the Golan Heights will turn into a crowded anti-Israel region for generations to come. From a strategic asset to Israel, the Golan would turn into a burden on top of the other regional efforts to eliminate Israel. Our future generations won’t forgive anyone who would do that.” Guy Bechor

    14. yamit82 says:


      Should Israel apply sovereignty over all of Yehuda and Shomron?

      Michael L. Wise

      How should Israel sovereignty over Yehuda and Shomron be implemented? Different annexation paths have been proposed. Phased in or partial annexation, districting, electoral reform and representation in the Knesset, various criteria for the changed legal status of the new residents of Israel, etc. Many possible paths were analyzed almost ten years ago and can be found at http://www.onestateplan.com.

      There is no quick, assured or ideal resolution to a conflict that has morethan a 100 year history. Nonetheless, it has become increasingly clear that complete annexation of Yehuda and Shomron offers the best opportunity for security, peace and prosperity for all the residents of Israel.

      In my opinion Israel has only two viable choices:

      1- Transfer the Arabs out of Israel and the territories then Annex or
      2- First annex and then transfer the Arabs out.

      I prefer the first but can live with the second.

    15. XLucid says:

      There is already an existing “peace” agreement with Palestinians called the “Oslo Accords”. The said accords brought already peace and security to Israeli people.

      Let see some examples of the peaceful and security objectives which were achieved further the said already existing agreement:

      March 11, 2011: Family Fogel (2 parents and 3 children including a 3-month-old baby) stabbed to death by a Palestinian.

      May 15, 2011: 1 man killed when an Arab truck driver uses his vehicle as a weapon and drives into vehicles in Tel Aviv.

      August 20, 2011: 1 man killed when an Arab fired rockets at Israeli city of Beersheba.

      September 23, 2011: Family Palmer (father and 12 month baby) killed when their car hit by rocks thrown from a Palestinian car driving in the opposite direction.

      Another peace agreement would be criminal and immoral. Sane Israeli people can anticipate the future by taking signals from the past.

    16. Canadian Otter says:

      @ Shy Guy:

      Even a bill demanding a referendum for J&S would be pathetic.

      I fully agree with you, but those who are ready to partition the country based on opinion polls should at least be expected to determine that support via referendum, not by means of qustionable opinion polls.

      And if partition is what Israelis want, it should be by at least two thirds majority.

      But the fact is that the land belongs to the Jewish people of today and tomorrow. Israelis who have been conditioned since childhood to think that they can bribe the enemy with land to achieve peace should not have the right to deprive future generations of their heritage.

      Random example of an Israeli voter:

      Israeli of Russian dissent arrested in Egypt for peace activities (you may skip the article and go straight to the first talkback for the real facts)
      http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-4326814,00.html

    17. yamit82 says:


      PM strikes down Likud MK’s bill to annex settlements

      By nipping Miri Regev’s proposal in the bud, Netanyahu avoids further embarrassment from the party’s right flank — and grief in the international arena

      The government on Sunday struck down a proposal by a Likud lawmaker to extend Israeli law to the Jewish communities beyond the Green Line, a move that frees the government from having to face claims it seeks to annex parts of the West Bank.

      Likud MK Miri Regev had submitted a bill that, if passed, would have applied Israeli law to all officially recognized Jewish settlements in the West Bank — tantamount to a de facto annexation of Area C, the Israeli-controlled West Bank territories. Currently, Israeli law extends only to sovereign Israel, the Old City and East Jerusalem, and the Golan Heights — not to the West Bank. The Jewish settlements are held under military rule.

      Regev’s bill — a rehash of similar proposals previously submitted to the Knesset — was discussed on Sunday by the Knesset’s Ministerial Committee for Legislative Affairs. Headed by Justice Minister Yaakov Neeman, the committee had the power to approve the bill and send it to the plenum for a preliminary reading, which would kick off the legislation process.

      PM strikes down Likud MK’s bill to annex settlements
      By nipping Miri Regev’s proposal in the bud, Netanyahu avoids further embarrassment from the party’s right flank — and grief in the international arena
      By Raphael Ahren

      the Likud’s right wing flexed its muscle, showing the prime minister that he needs to remain steadfast in his support for the settlements if he wants their unwavering backing. the party’s pro-settlement camp fired a clear warning shot in his direction.

    18. rongrand says:

      @ yamit82:

      1- Transfer the Arabs out of Israel and the territories then Annex or
      2- First annex and then transfer the Arabs out.

      They enjoy the good life of living in Israel and they show their appreciation by being a major pain in the ass.

      They can’t have it both ways.

      Bottom line, they are a thorn in side of Israel and need to be removed.

      There is a whole Arab world out there for them to occupy and although I am sure it will not be as pleasant and comfortable as in Israel, it will be up to them to teach their brethren how to behave and act civil (good luck).

      A good start for them would begin by removing Hamas from their ranks (again, good luck).

    19. XLucid says:

      Indeed, the Land of Israel does not belong to citizens of Israel, but to all Jewish people, ie the 12 tribes.

      Therefore, dismantling the tiny remaining portion of our Land is illegal in virtue of the international laws, in addition to the violation of the Torah precepts.

      It seems that the Israeli successive governments ignore the basics regarding the Land of Israel which was granted to all Jewish people according to treaties of international law.

      For the time being, there is only a temporary solution to this 100 year problem: if Jews are not allowed to live in the major portion of the Land of Israel, called “Jordan”, in total violation of the international laws, then all arab people should be expelled to Jordan…

      … Until the time we recapture the whole Land of Israel for all the twelve tribes.

    20. yamit82 says:


      Holocaust survivors slam Netanyahu for Likud candidate’s Eichmann comments

      Moshe Feiglin had said Israel should apologize for executing Nazi mastermind if it fails to legitimize conscientious objection to settlement dismantlement

    21. yamit82 says:

      I have a comment in moderation

    22. ArnoldHarris says:

      If the poll truly is an accurate measure of Israeli public opinion, with emphasis on “if”, then I hope Israel and the Israelis have not a single day of peace. Otherwise Zionism is plainly doomed, and with it, the opportunity — which Jewish have been praying and dying for over some 3000 years — to restore the strength and unity of the Kingdom of Israel under our great leaders David and Shlomo.

      You ether love the concept of:

      –Peace, which, with Arabs is never anything more than a Czechoslokia without the Sudetenland peace which destroyed that unfortunate country in five months.

      –A geographically enlarged, populous, well-organized, militarily powerful, and fully independent Israel with room enough to grow still larger populations.

      But you cannot have both. And any Jew who would sell out the Jewish nation for the mess of pottage of an American-arranged sellout of Jewish national rights, in my judgement, is worthy of the unpleasant death of a traitor.

      Arnold Harris
      Mount Horeb WI

    23. yamit82 says:

      @ ArnoldHarris:

      But you cannot have both. And any Jew who would sell out the Jewish nation for the mess of pottage of an American-arranged sellout of Jewish national rights, in my judgement, is worthy of the unpleasant death of a traitor.


      Bennett Reminds Peres: Oslo ‘Peace’ Killed 1,600 Israelis

      Jewish Home chairman Bennett tells President Peres “enough, already” with “peace process” talk. “Oslo murdered 1,600 Israelis.

    24. Not Ovenready says:

      Interesting how the word “treason” has virtually been eliminated in discourse both in Israel and the US (Pollard case notwithstanding). It seems to me that giving away the Golan and the hilltops of Samaria constitute an assault on security and therefore treason, which trumps any other “rationality” these idiots claim.

    25. Michael Devolin says:

      “But you cannot have both. And any Jew who would sell out the Jewish nation for the mess of pottage of an American-arranged sellout of Jewish national rights, in my judgement, is worthy of the unpleasant death of a traitor.”

      I agree with you, Mr. Harris. “Forget not the landmarks of our fathers.”

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