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January 13, 2013

EU working on new Mideast peace plan. WHAT’S IN IT FOR ISRAEL?

British, French FMs preparing plan to restart talks between Israel, Palestinians to be presented in March. ‘It will drive us into a corner,’ say Israeli officials

THIS PLAN IS AN AMALGAM OF PA DEMANDS AND OBAMA’S FRAMEWORK. NO CONCESSION HAS BEEN GIVEN TO ISRAEL.

Itamar Eichner, YNET

The European Union is working on a detailed plan meant to restart Israeli-Palestinian negotiations and establish an independent Palestinian state based on the 1967 borders with east Jerusalem as its capital, Yedioth Ahronoth quoted Israeli diplomatic sources as saying.

The plan will set a clear timetable for a discussion on all core issues over the course of 2013. It will likely be presented in March after a new Israeli government is formed.

According to the plan, Israel and the Palestinians will enter peace negotiations after a brief interval. The plan will likely also include a demand to freeze settlement construction.


The initiative is promoted by the British and French foreign ministers, and has the support of Germany.

Efforts are being made to internationalize the plan: The EU’s High Representative for Foreign Affairs Catherine Ashton is examining the possibility of making the plan an all-European proposal.

Similar efforts have been made in a Quartet meeting in Amman, Jordan, where the EU’s representatives have asked to discuss their proposed peace plan. However, the US requested to delay the discussion until after the Israeli elections and the Obama inauguration.

An awkward position
Several reports revealed that the plan will also include a basis for a regional Middle Eastern committee with the participation of Egypt, Jordan and the Gulf states.

Such a committee will marginalize Israel, but a refusal to join it will be perceived as a general rejection of the peace process. [We have already rejected the same deal coming from Obama.] The Palestinians have already said they will accept the invitation if issued.

“There is great movement behind the scenes,” a senior Israeli official said. “The Europeans can’t force Israel to enter into an agreement, but they can certainly put us in an awkward position.

“They are drafting a document which will present the principles of the future peace accord, putting it on the table as a challenge. It is likely the Palestinians will accept it and that Israel will have some difficulty. It will drive us into the corner.”

Hatnua Chairwoman Tzipi Livni commented on the plan Friday and said: “In March the world will present us with a peace plan – either it will be forced upon us or we come up with our own plan.

“If we form an Israeli plan we could renew the alliance with the region’s moderates and will be able to better deal with the extremist front. It is therefore important to have a government which promotes a real peace process.”

Meanwhile the Palestinians are trying to initiate a special UN Security Council meeting on January 23, a day after the Israeli elections, to discuss settlement construction and particularly Israel’s area E1 construction plan.

They demand that the discussion include foreign ministers so that Palestinian Foreign Minister Riyad al-Maliki will be able to attend it for the first time as a representative of the “State of Palestine.”

Deputy Foreign Minister Danny Ayalon met with UN Director General Ban Ki-moon over the weekend and expressed Israel’s objection to the discussion.

Posted by Ted Belman @ 4:04 pm | 335 Comments »



335 Responses to EU working on new Mideast peace plan. WHAT’S IN IT FOR ISRAEL?

  1. Bernard Ross says:

    David Sternlight Said:

    Never attribute to malice that which can be explained by simple stupidity

    A good point!
    David Sternlight Said:

    Absinthe is not only highly alcoholic, but also contains a poison, thujone, which can cause severes brain damage.

    Another possible explanation.

  2. shachalnur says:

    @ mr. Ross,
    I’ve got a job,so i have to work ,once in a while.
    I consulted my tribe anyway,because you guys really cornered me,this time.

    I belong to a group inside judaism ,called” The Silenced Mayority”.

    We are everywhere,some are doing their work alone,some together,some “in silentium exclamaban”.

    8,860 Self Hating ,Israel Threatening jews as of 20-09-’09 on masada2000.com S.H.I.T. -list.
    They claim it to be only the tip of the iceberg.

    Omer Goldman,daughter of former Mossad -chief,refusing to serve the monster.
    Listen to the interviews this ,than,18 year old gave.(2008)
    A future leader of Jews in Israel,intelligent,sensitive and couragious,a source of great pride.

    The “Occupy Rothschild “movement,who started on the 14 of july 2011 on sderot Rothschild,too symbolic,and therefore an unacceptable threat to the Bankers.
    Last year Daphne Leef had the crap beaten out of her,too close to the truth,and now she will have to go to court,for expressing her opinion.

    Meretz,that symbolically held their last political rally on Sderot Rothschild last week(formerly Rechov Ha’am,”the people’s street”).

    The ,at least,500.000 anti-Zionist Religious jews inside israel,and a million outside israel.

    Many thousands on the Internet.

    And the nasty little issue of the estimated 20 million “assimilated” jews,since 1945.
    I’ve spoken to thousands of them during my life.
    They took distance in disgust,refusing to be part of this.
    I don’t know what each one of them thinks,but for sure they don’t agree with the views of jews on this site.

    That’s the group I belong to.

    Jews that didn’t buy into the Zionist Banker story.(Political Zionism ,because “Judaism failed”,as Shy Guy said today)
    Free,not slaves.
    Jews with a future without eternal bloodshed in the name of the New World Order Banker Eugenic Control Grid.

    You are the minority,the slaves,the paranoid Chosenites,the one’s that will cause millions of jewish dead,like before the Shoah.

    You are a danger to yourselves and all jews on this planet.

  3. dweller says:

    @ Shy Guy:

    “Looks to me you’re writing a Jewish new testament.”

    “You mean the original ‘NT’ wasn’t Jewish?”

    “It was as Jewish as Das Kapital and as non-fictional as Psycho…”

    Poor analogy. Kapital was written by the grandchild of rabbis (on both sides of the family), and the child of parents who converted: to avail themselves of the (perceived) benefits of the haskalah — and who did so BEFORE he was even born.

    As to whether NT is or isn’t ‘non-fictional’

    — we both know, Shy, that the reason you regard NT as ‘fiction’ is that you need it to be

    not vice versa.

  4. Not everything done by Jews is “Jewish” except in the minds of anti- Semites and conspiracy nuts.

    @ dweller:

  5. dweller says:

    @ Shy Guy:

    “Shabbat was meant only for the Jews.”

    “Horse pucky. This is contradicted by the very words you quote:

    Man is allowed to rule over the world for six days by God’s will, but is forbidden on the seventh day to fashion anything for his own purpose. On each Sabbath man restores the world to God, as it were, and thus proclaims that he enjoys only a borrowed authority.’

    “Notice: it doesn’t say ‘Jews’ — it says man….”

    “Ignoramessyanic: ‘Wherefore the children of Israel shall keep the sabbath, to observe the sabbath throughout their generations, for a perpetual covenant. It is a sign between Me and the children of Israel for ever; for in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, and on the seventh day He ceased from work and rested’…Exodus 31:16-17

    PrematureExclamajaculator: I did not say shabbat ‘wasn’t ‘ meant for the Jews.

    If you re-read that part of the thread [herein, above], SHY, it’s quite clear what I had objected to was Yamit’s utterly bizarre & presumptuous assertion that it was meant ‘ONLY’ for the Jews

    — a conclusion which he erroneously drew from the excerpt from (Louis Jacobs’ assessment of) Shimshohn Rafael Hirsch’s commentary that Yamit cited & linked in support.

    It may perhaps be more accurate, then, to say that the enjoinder to keep Shabbat (just like the other Dibrot) was never presented by God to any other NATION (or “nation in the making”).

    However, this is a far cry from asserting that it was ‘MEANT only for the Jews,’ and nobody else.

    — That simply does not follow.

    There was no need to let yourself go off half-cocked — unless, of course, you were LOOKING for a reason to. . . .

  6. According to tradition ( dunno if there is a Torah source), each nation has its own day of rest; Shabbat for Jews. That, by the way, makes Seventh Day Adventists and some ither non-Jewish sects misinterpreting to move theirs to Saturday.

    @ dweller:

  7. dweller says:

    @ yamit82:

    “Ignoramessyanic:

    This is where [dweller] seems to be coming from: In Colossians 2:16-17, the apostle Paul declares’. . . .”

    No, absolutely not. I wasn’t even thinking of Paul’s epistles, or anything from NT.

    What I’ve already said to you was the truth: It was sheer common sense, yidishie sechel, that brought out my remark to phoenix; nothing else.

    What Paul wrote to the gentiles reflected the SAME common sense. And the commentator you excerpted, and tucked into your post — again without attribution, as usual — apparently saw this with the same common sense as well.

    That’s why it’s called “COMMON sense.” (Du-uh.)

    “Sabbath-keeping was not one of the commands the apostles felt was necessary to force on Gentile believers. It is inconceivable that the apostles would neglect to include Sabbath-keeping if it was God’s command for Christians to observe the Sabbath day.”

    Wrong. What is inconceivable is that the apostles would’ve imposed something on gentile believers if it was specific to Jews as a GROUP, since they weren’t trying to make Jews of them (hence no circumcision requirement either).

    What they chose to do as individuals, however, was another matter. It certainly wasn’t ‘prohibited’ to them.

    “Again Shabbat was meant only for the Jews and the Christians understood this point at least.”

    Au contraire — again, you are flat-out wrong.

    For one thing, there was nothing said (recorded) at Sinai to indicate that shabbat was explicitly ‘for nobody else but Bnai Yisrael.’

    More significantly, however, you are forgetting that there were no ‘Christians’ at the time of Paul’s writings; Paul had no more intention than did Christ to establish a ‘new’ religion

    — but rather, to relieve man (everywhere) of the ‘need’ for it.

    “dweller knows [that shabbat was meant only for Jews] as well but he is playing games.”

    No. The only times I ever ‘play games,’ I always let you know — and in no uncertain terms.

  8. dweller says:

    @ shachalnur:

    “By the way,building 7 housed Lehmann Brothers,that went bankrupt shortly after and 400 Billion dollars disappeared.”

    FWIW, for the past 4 decades, the only connection of Lehman Bros with the actual brothers Lehman has been the NAME of the firm.

    Robert Lehman died in 1969, leaving no member of the Lehman family actively involved with the partnership.

  9. shachalnur says:

    @Dweller,

    There we go again.
    You show up with arguments of my ,supposed ,anti-Zemmediszm.
    While I’m talking about what really matters;
    Not “who” does it,but “what” are they doing.
    Jews or not, they are all serving the same master ,at that level.
    Where’s the 400 Billion,where did it go?
    Why was that building brought down?

  10. dweller says:

    @ David Sternlight:

    “Never attribute to malice that which can be explained by simple stupidity.”

    Ah, yes, a variation on Dweller’s Second Law of Political Troubleshooting:

    “Never begin by attributing to conspiracy what can as easily be explained by human stupidity.”

    As with the conspiracy version, however, I wouldn’t actually rule out malice under conditions where stupidity might explain it.

    — Since all sorts of serious things CAN be gussied up to appear the product of snafu, stupidity, etc.

    I just wouldn’t take on the other possibilities until AFTER I’d considered the stupidity angle.

    As with trouble-shooting an engine, explore the little stuff first; then take up the more heavy-duty potential.

  11. dweller says:

    @ David Sternlight:

    “The core idea of Shabbos is to abstain from creation, just as HaShem did on Shabbos.”

    If that be the case — and I remain unconvinced that it is, David — then it would be ‘impossible’ to keep Shabbos

    — because, arguably, NOTHING that a man does can be said to NOT, in some manner or degree, constitute “creation.”

  12. This is not the place, nor am I the person, for an authoritative Halachic discussion. for details, consult a Rav.@ dweller:

  13. Shy Guy says:

    David Sternlight Said:

    According to tradition

    Polish?

    Polynesian?
    @ dweller:
    You are right.

  14. Shy Guy says:

    dweller Said:

    — because, arguably, NOTHING that a man does can be said to NOT, in some manner or degree, constitute “creation.”

    You need to read RSR Hirsch’s commentary on the connection between the laws of Shabbat, the building and the meaning of the Mishkan and the works involved in the latter and why those works define “creation.”

    “It is not in the heavens.” Which is G-d’s simple way of saying it’s not rocket science.

  15. Shy Guy says:

    shachalnur Said:

    Why was that building brought down?

    It wasn’t.

  16. Shy Guy says:

    dweller Said:

    For one thing, there was nothing said (recorded) at Sinai to indicate that shabbat was explicitly ‘for nobody else but Bnai Yisrael.’

    You are wrong.

  17. Or you could study the Talmudic tractate “Shabbos” which contains extensive logical discussions by the Rabbis.
    @ David Sternlight:

  18. Unlike some, I find it impossible to ride off madly in all directions. Just as the Ten Commandments weren’t the Ten Suggestions, I find stopping at Occam unless there is strong evidence to do otherwise, useful. And I have no mind- reading powers so I try to avoid speculating on motives. Nothing personal.
    @ dweller:

  19. Jewish, as should have been clear from the context. And while I’m typing, it might be useful for some (not you) to distinguish between the Ten Commandments, given by Hashem to Israel, and later taken on voluntarily by many others, and the Noachide Laws, given by Hashem to all mankind.

    @ Shy Guy:

  20. RSR Hirsch was one of the great Jewish thinkers. Another major contribution of his was to discredit the Wellhausen theory of multiple authors of the Torah, which had done vast damage to academic Jewish intellectual thinking, and still persists in some quarters today. For details, see http://www.aishdas.org/toratemet/en_cardozo.html

    @ Shy Guy:

  21. dweller says:

    @ David Sternlight:

    “for details, consult a Rav”

    If I truly believed that a Rav was intrinsically in closer touch with the Master of the Universe than other mortal beings, I would.

    As it is, I’m constrained to honor that Master by using the faculties He gifted me with to understand Him and His creation.

  22. dweller says:

    @ Shy Guy:

    “… arguably, NOTHING that a man does can be said to NOT, in some manner or degree, constitute ‘creation’…”

    “You need to read RSR Hirsch’s commentary on the connection between the laws of Shabbat, the building and the meaning of the Mishkan and the works involved in the latter and why those works define ‘creation’…”

    Since you’ve chosen to cite it, suppose you summarize it for me

    — then, if I need followup, I’ll check it out directly.

  23. Shy Guy says:

    Shy Guy Said:

    dweller Said:

    For one thing, there was nothing said (recorded) at Sinai to indicate that shabbat was explicitly ‘for nobody else but Bnai Yisrael.’

    You are wrong.

    Dweller, I requested that this comment of mine be deleted. Instead it went into moderation and was published. I retracted it.

  24. dweller says:

    @ Shy Guy:

    “For one thing, there was nothing said (recorded) at Sinai to indicate that shabbat was explicitly ‘for nobody else but Bnai Yisrael’…”

    “You are wrong.”

    Ok, then show me HOW I’m ‘wrong.’

    — What was said at Sinai that indicated shabbat to be an exclusively Jewish preserve?

    SHY: Just saw your comment alerting me to your retraction. I will do the same as soon as I finish this sentence.

  25. Shy Guy says:

    David Sternlight Said:

    Jewish, as should have been clear from the context.

    There is no such “tradition”.

    If you meant to say that Judaism’s concept of Shabbat was adopted and adapted by other religions and societies, then yes. Nothing to do with tradition. Everything to do with history/anthropology.

  26. Shy Guy says:

    dweller Said:

    ince you’ve chosen to cite it, suppose you summarize it for me

    The Mishkan and the Beit Hamidash are a representation of both the world itself and human beings. The rest is commentary. Go and finish [your studies].

  27. Shy Guy says:

    Just to summarize regarding Shabbat, their is observance (Shahmor) and remembrance (Zachor). Jews are obligated in both. Gentiles are not obligated at all but the remembrance of Shabbat is simply an expression of recognition for any person wishing to strengthen their respect for and faith in the Creator. Yamit, do you think otherwise?

  28. Shy Guy says:

    dweller Said:

    If I truly believed that a Rav was intrinsically in closer touch with the Master of the Universe than other mortal beings, I would.

    Just like doctors.

    /sarc

    There’s a reason why it says in the Ethics of the Fathers: “Find yourself a Rav”. Admittedly easier said than done. Frankly I’m not sure if it’s harder to find a good Rav or a good barber. I ain’t kidding.

  29. dweller says:

    @ Shy Guy:

    “… arguably, NOTHING that a man does can be said to NOT, in some manner or degree, constitute ‘creation’…”

    “You need to read RSR Hirsch’s commentary on the connection between the laws of Shabbat, the building and the meaning of the Mishkan and the works involved in the latter and why those works define ‘creation’…”

    “Since you’ve chosen to cite it, suppose you summarize it for me — then, if I need followup, I’ll check it out directly.

    “The Mishkan and the Beit Hamikdash are a representation of both the world itself and human beings.”

    That’s it? that’s ALL of it? — a matter of sheer symbology?

    “The rest is commentary.”

    Couldn’t be much of an argument, if that’s truly the long & the short of it.

    Are you certain that’s all there is to it?

    If you think he’s on target, and you’re sure you truly understand him

    — then you should be able to make his case in your own words.

  30. dweller says:

    @ Shy Guy:

    “There’s a reason why it says in the Ethics of the Fathers: ‘Find yourself a Rav’.

    Admittedly easier said than done. Frankly I’m not sure if it’s harder to find a good Rav or a good barber. I ain’t kidding.”

    I knew there must be a reason why I haven’t had a haircut in several years!

    (But it’s tied back, so my visual identity’s never been at-issue.)

  31. A Rav has spent his life studying the words of Torah, commentaries, Talmud and other sources, in detail. Have you, or do you expect it to just fly into your head?
    @ dweller:

  32. He provided a citation. It is for you to do your own homework. At most you could ask for a pointer, though I presume you are literate enough to do a Google search on your own.
    @ dweller:

  33. He provided a citation. It is for you to do your own homework. At most you could ask for a pointer, though I presume you are literate enough to do a Google search on your own.

    Alas, the laziness of modern youth.

    @ dweller:

  34. There is specific Jewish tradition, though I don’t recall whether it is Torah or Talmudic commentary, that Hashem gave a day of rest for each nation. Israel’s was on Shabbat (Saturday). Other nations had it on other days.

    It is about what Hashem gave, whether the various nations accepted/adopted it or not, just as Hashem gave the Noachide Laws to all nations in the Torah (Book of Noah, after the flood). Those nations or individuals, even though non-Jewish, who observed them were assured of a place in the world to come.
    @ Shy Guy:

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