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  • January 28, 2013

    Lapid delivers a fascinating speech

    Posted by Ted Belman @ 10:25 pm | 31 Comments »
  • 31 Comments to Lapid delivers a fascinating speech

    1. Bill Narvey says:

      Lapid offered some insight into the contentiousness between the Haredim and the secular. I however, heard no specific suggestions on just how the two can bridge the gap between them and find ways to work together for the common good of themselves and Israel, rather than continuing their stances that remain divisive.

      It appeared Lapid was addressing a contingent of Haredim. It would have been most enlightening if the video included a question and answer period or some of the Haredi there wrote commentary on what they heard.

      Thus with only Lapid’s words, one cannot determine whether his insights, however well articulated, struck a chord with his audience and if so in what way.

      Does anyone know what if anything measurably positive came out of Lapid’s talk?

      Talk, even eloquent talk is just talk unless it has the demonstrable effect intended.

    2. Shy Guy says:

      Without looking for nitpicks, that was a very good speech.
      Bill Narvey Said:

      I however, heard no specific suggestions on just how the two can bridge the gap between them and find ways to work together for the common good of themselves and Israel, rather than continuing their stances that remain divisive.

      He is saying “live and let live.” There are divisions that can never be bridged but that doesn’t mean that everyone should chop the other guy’s head off.

      He spoke to an auditorium of people in a university program – not at the Agudat Yisrael Convention in Binyanei Ha’uma. Lapid’s take is representative of subtle changes happening. He not giving you a plan. He’s telling you which direction the country is heading to.

      The Haredi students in Kiryat Ono, like the Haredi soldiers in the Nachal Haredi program are seeds. In the past, these trees didn’t grow in Israel.

      The tree growing process is slow. This past Shabbat’s Torah portion, Beshalach, included the “Song of the Sea”, after Israel first-hand witnessed G-d’s miracles at Yam Suf to save them and punish their oppressors. This past Shabbat was also the Jewish “New Year” for the trees, Tu B’Shvat. Tu B’Shvat always falls out on or after this Torah portion reading. The Song of the Sea is the first of many places in Tanach where the Nation of Israel is compared to plantings:

      “Thou bringest them in, and plantest them in the mountain of Thine inheritance, the place, O LORD, which Thou hast made for Thee to dwell in, the sanctuary, O Lord, which Thy hands have established.”Sh’mot (Exodus) 15:17

      “Tevi’emo vetitah’emo”. Give us some time to blossom.

    3. jew says:

      Lapid simply acknowledged irrefutable facts: the secular Jews achieved a lot of material things, but since they have no faith they failed in the end, while the believing and observing Jews belong to the eternal side.

      So what’s actually Lapid’s point? I think he wants to save what can be saved with regard to his hedonistic materialistic secular life. And he very much reminds me the wellknown “friends of the Jews”.

      The christians for instance. They also finally acknowledged about 200 years ago that they cannot convert the Jews by force and that in the end the Jews will win and the christians will loose, so they presented themselves as “friends of the Jews” and offered them a lot of benefits if they stop defining themselves as Jews but rather as Germans, Frenchmen etc. But the real intention was to finish the Jewish People in order to save victory for christianity.

      The same occured after the Shoah. The Vatican and other christian organizations were shocked by the establishment of the Jewish State since this clearly gives victory to the Jews and refutes the foundations of christianity. After some while, they simply had to acknowledge the facts and represented themselves as “friends of the Jews” in order to deceive the Jews.

      Obama, too, has this instinct of presenting himself as a “friend of the Jews” or a “friend of Israel” and to that purpose he surrounds himself with useful Jews.

      And so does Lapid. He also found a useful Jew to assist him in his deception. But the fact is, that Lapid’s campaign ad was FULL OF HATE! That’s why I know that he isn’t a friend of the Jewish people, as much as his father wasn’t, but rather he wants to deceive.

    4. Shy Guy says:

      jew Said:

      And so does Lapid. He also found a useful Jew to assist him in his deception. But the fact is, that Lapid’s campaign ad was FULL OF HATE! That’s why I know that he isn’t a friend of the Jewish people, as much as his father wasn’t, but rather he wants to deceive.

      I generally agree with you regarding Lapid the candidate. However, as Lapid the individual secularist, there is nothing deceptive in this message to the law students at Kiryat Ono. He’s telling them get ready because soon you’re going to be in charge. He’s not really offering or promising them anything. By the way, this video is originally from Oct. 2011 or slightly before. It had nothing to do with elections.

    5. jew says:

      @ Shy Guy:
      Lapid did a lot of effort to make the haredi students believe that he is a sincere friend of their community and that he even admires them, he asked them to help him and to give up their fears. That’s the typical strategy all the “friends of Israel” applied and still apply. May it be G-d’s will that he did not succeed to confuse them, since confusion is the weapon of our ennemies.

    6. jew says:

      @ yamit82:
      Lapid is a shallow person. And he attracts shallow persons. In ten years his main asset, e.g. his outfit, will be gone. What will remain? As much as remains from his father: NOTHING.

      That’s the big difference between Lapid and – lehavdil – Rabbi Grossman. Thank you for the links!

    7. Shy Guy says:

      jew Said:

      he asked them to help him and to give up their fears.

      Lapid asked them to help the country and give up their fears of actually building the nation. Lapid didn’t ask for any personal help. He didn’t even ask for their trust.
      jew Said:

      In ten years his main asset, e.g. his outfit, will be gone.

      I certainly am not counting on his party to manage to hold out for a decade.

    8. Shy Guy says:

      jew Said:

      That’s the big difference between Lapid and – lehavdil – Rabbi Grossman.

      Before you said:

      The christians for instance. They also finally acknowledged about 200 years ago that they cannot convert the Jews by force and that in the end the Jews will win and the christians will loose, so they presented themselves as “friends of the Jews” and offered them a lot of benefits if they stop defining themselves as Jews but rather as Germans, Frenchmen etc. But the real intention was to finish the Jewish People in order to save victory for christianity.

      What a mess!!!

    9. yamit82 says:

      Shy Guy Said:

      What a mess!!!

      It’s more than a mess !!! They have found out how to corrupt even the most pious and best of us not to mention the least pious and least of us.

      Christian money must be banned and forbidden from entering our institutions. There is certainly sufficient untainted Jewish money available so that The Christian dirty coin will not be sought after or received. Grossman a true ‘Lamed Vav’ “ashrei kol h.okhei lo” [36]Isaiah 30:18, should never need to be dependent on Pagan $$$$. They have found and are exploiting The Jewish Achilles heel, not money but critical need.

    10. yamit82 says:

      @ Shy Guy:

      In 1996 I think, Lapid wrote in Ma’ariv that they the Left knew what would be the result of evacuating Gush Katif but their hope was that it would be worth the cost if it would help to destroy the settlement movement. (I am paraphrasing). Has he now become a realist? Has he had an Epiphany based on realism or is he emulating the Christian methodology of effluent professions of understanding and Luuv? I think he is a Trojan horse until proven otherwise.

      I wonder who are the supporting deep pockets behind Lapid?

    11. yamit82 says:

      @ jew:

      I agree.

    12. yamit82 says:

      @ Shy Guy:

      My negativism is not the message but the sincerity and motivation of the messenger. Whether Lapid believes the message or not the fact remains the demography will in the end determine who wins and loses. He might be just attempting to delay the inevitable or to try to wedge the haredi solidarity? Don’t know yet.

    13. Shy Guy says:

      yamit82 Said:

      I think he is a Trojan horse until proven otherwise.

      I wonder who are the supporting deep pockets behind Lapid?

      yamit82 Said:

      He might be just attempting to delay the inevitable or to try to wedge the haredi solidarity?

      Everything he’s saying is essentially true. Again, without nitpicking. I don’t know what you call the inevitable. If you mean that the rest of the country will turn into Mea She’arim, Bnei Brak and Ramat Beit Shemesh Bet, then I’m with Tzippi Livni! :) If you mean that Hareidim of all shapes and sizes will become a greater part of Israeli society and therefore politics, well, that’s what Lapid is talking about.

      Now I’m sure that Lapid the candidate will try to slow the process down. But Lapid the private citizen has done his math. He knows the same demographic fact as you and I do. He just hopes that there are more broad-scoped Haredim around to share the responsibility, just as he hopes that that’s the kind of people he was addressing that day in Kiryat Ono.

      I didn’t see your “negativism” per se in your first comments with your Rav Grossman interview links. There is a lot of capitulation by Lapid in the video here to Israel’s changing population mix.

      Pretend the main points of this speech were presented at Kiryat Ono, not by Lapid, but by someone like Prof. Leo Levi. Would he have been right or wrong? What of what Lapid actually stated are you disagreeing with?

    14. yamit82 says:

      Shy Guy Said:

      What of what Lapid actually stated are you disagreeing with?

      Never said I disagreed with what he said but question only the motivation of the speaker. On second thought; I do disagree with Lapid’s premise that the hareidim have won. He didn’t make the case for that statement. I think the jury is still out. I have doubts that even with demographics favoring the Hareidim and orthodox in general, once the ghetto walls become breached it becomes a 50/50 proposition.

      When someone jumps out of character without any pre-context, I always sit back and question where he is coming from and why. I never said that Yair is the same as Tommy but I do know he supported the Shinui agenda when Papa was running the show. Was it just familial support and loyalty or was it because he agreed with papa Lapid? Since I don’t know and knowing based on some of what he wrote in the past, his speech seems to me out of character leading me to suspect a deeper agenda than just the superficiality of his talk.

      You know that full participating in Israeli society for them is based mostly on fear of losing control and from their POV they are correct.

    15. yamit82 says:

      Shy Guy Said:

      Pretend the main points of this speech were presented at Kiryat Ono, not by Lapid, but by someone like Prof. Leo Levi. Would he have been right or wrong?

      I would have applauded.

    16. Shy Guy says:

      yamit82 Said:

      On second thought; I do disagree with Lapid’s premise that the hareidim have won.

      I think what he really meant was that the religious have won against the secular, haredim included. His main topic is the religious/secular divide. He could give this speech in Merkaz Harav, altering a few references to Haredim, and much would still hold true.yamit82 Said:

      You know that full participating in Israeli society for them is based mostly on fear of losing control and from their POV they are correct.

      Whose fear of losing control and who is correct?

    17. pinchas says:

      Excellent analysis and presentation by Yair Lapid. Kov hakavod. Regrettably, I did not sense a very positive response from the audience, and the applause at the end seemed meagre. As for the talkbacks here, and on other articles: I wish they were more intelligent and there was less nudnik sparring back and forth between 2 or 3 guys. Ted, you should thin out the herd a little! And to the talkbacker named “jew”– you sound like a man full of hate even as you describe, falsely, Yair Lapid as being a hater. Look in the mirror, you frumadike fool.

    18. Shy Guy says:

      @ pinchas:
      One fact that seems to be unknown to many is that Yair Lapid’s closest adviser is….

      ….drumroll….

      ….Ehud Olmert.

      Something is probably very wrong. To paraphrase Nancy Pelosi: “We have to form the coalition so you can find out what is in it.”

    19. Alex Markin says:

      I guess from a few of the comments above that Lapid’s excellent speech on unifying was fine as long as unification proceeds with an orthodox/haredi agenda. That is not unification. He was asking for a mindset change on the part of those who think their faith justifies lack of accommodation and real participation. It is not something that can be legislated or for which there are set or possible procedures. Lapid’s speech was one of the most realistic and statesmanlike speeches from a politician that I have heard for quite some time. Kol hakavod.

    20. jew says:

      @ Alex Markin:
      Lapid is realistic on the one hand as he knows what’s really going on, but on the other hand he wants to reverse this reallity although this is impossible, but his low character is stronger than his mind…

      And I have also a proof for what I am saying:

      1) his campaign ad is a pure piece of hate, hate, hate and nothing than hate. that doesn’t fit with his speach in front of Haredim in Kiryat Ono, but rather Lapid has two tongues like a serpent.

      2) today he announced that he rejects Yaalon’s plan to enregister the Haredim gradually to IDF service – he will only negotiate with the PM he declared (e.g. he even does not want to talk to the religeous people he wants to enregister). Obviously Lapid enjoys to humilate the Heredim as much as possible in coercing on them a solution in which they are not involved, and in addition a so silly and practically impossible solution (how does he want to enregister at once so many young people, ther’s simply no infrastructure!)

      3) Why doesn’t he suggest the enregisterment of the arabs? He’s a hypocrite and a lyer. End of story.

    21. Alex Markin says:

      Jew, with your attitude you succeed in increasing the religious/secular schism that splits Israel. Seriously some thought should be given to making it into one community rather than the traditional Israeli tribal warfare battle ground. What on earth is wrong with having haredim become part of the Israeli community as fast as possible and acting like all, rather than seeking waivers for bookworm activities. Or are you that opposed to that, seeking instead to have them solely getting entitlements without obligation. Your suggestion that he also suggest Arabs register implies you prefer Haredim remain as parasites, as leeches, well deserving of humiliation, rather than contributing as equals. You know very well why open registration of all Arabs is not feasible. Or are you so into your own dusty texts you are unaware of that too.

      It is up to you to be more positive rather than wax negatively about the olive branch Lapid has waved to you. Challenge him constructively. Your letter above was the opposite.

    22. jew says:

      @ Alex Markin:
      I am in favor of haredi registration, but Lapid does not care about equal burden, he has inherited from his father a profound hate of everything jewish-religious and his low character makes that he enjoys humilating the people he hates. he does not want to compromise, but evrybody knows that it is simply impossible to register all heredi men at once, it has to be done gradually. now it coccurs that he even humilates BB and in fact intends to destabilize the government after some months and then replace BB. nothing is authentic in this person. He has an astronomic ego – and out of controle. Furtunately. Since those people tend to fall very deep and very quickly.

      By the way your qualification of the Haredim as parasites only shows that it’s YOU who does not want unity. I for my part have nothing against people without kippa, since 80% of those people are not secular, they are traditional, they are not against Judaism, they simply find it hard to do. But in most cases the really secular people who are against Judaism are also against Israel.

    23. Shy Guy says:

      jew Said:

      he has inherited from his father a profound hate of everything jewish-religious and his low character makes that he enjoys humilating the people he hates.

      A good part of the Lapid’s hate is us. We need to look in the mirror. No, not everything, but we have given the non-religious plenty of ammo.

      but evrybody knows that it is simply impossible to register all heredi men at once, it has to be done gradually.

      When the Gedolim of Jerusalem and Bnei Brak call the IDF and say they have a great idea how to contribute, call me. In the meantime, Bezeq (Israel’s phone company) is losing money.

    24. yamit82 says:

      I find it curious that the Judaism practiced in Bnei Brak and Mea Shearim is little different from the Judaism practiced in Boro Park
      They have brought Galut Judaism to Israel which should be a contradiction in everything Judaism was supposed to represent

      “the Land of Israel remains for them “exile”. And nothing touches their conscience. And there is no shame, no shame.

      “And they scorned the desirable land and believed not His word.” (Psalms 106)

      “And the handlers of the Law knew me not.” (Jeremiah 2) “These are the Sanhedrin.” (Tana Dvei Eliyahu)

      “What is the reason that the righteous shall not receive their full reward in the World to Come? It is because of the tininess that was amongst them.” (Sotah 48) “Tininess of faith.” (Rashi)” Kahane HY”D

    25. Alex Markin says:

      I am fascinated and disappointed by the relative negativity my suggestions for coming together get. If this is typical of the orthodox community, you may have won but really you have lost. On the other hand as for decades you have done all to impose your archaic rules on others, I am not surprised.

      Cheers
      Alex+

    26. jew says:

      @ Alex Markin:
      we don’t impose anything on you and the proof is that you do what you want.

      you can start studying those “archaic values” and make you your OWN opinion rather than repeating sterotypes you heard from the non-jews who on their part never studied those “archaic values” either.

    27. jew says:

      @ Shy Guy:
      you are right, we have to repent for our falts. but we do not have to give a stage to an egocentric charlatan like this lapid. and certainly are we obliged to expose his low motivations, e.g. to hurt and to humilate us out of low character. the proof for what i am saying is his campaign ad and also the way he handles the coalition negotiations. furtunately, his ego is so much out of proportion that he will fall dee and very soon. and also i cannot but be impressed by the way G-d pays back BB Mida-KeNeged-Mida (the way he did to Benet, lapid does to BB). Magi’a Lo LeBiBi.

    28. jew says:

      surely, lapid tells a lot of facts in this speach.

      but his point is that he wants to do everything to reverse these facts, including the fact the the religious won. he wants back the good old times of absolute secular rule. but knowing that there is simply no way doing that by democratic means, he has developed a dubble strategy:

      1) calm the religious down by making them complements so that he can take them by surprise

      2) humilate them and break them

      of course, he is completely naive, since many have tried this in our history and we are still here while they are gone. however, he is not driven by his mind but rather by his infinite ego. fortunately. G-d has programmed into the heart of the wicked his own failure.

    29. Shalom Caisary kaizerman says:

      Mr. Lapid opens his speech by saying, “religious in Israel win the conflict against the secular.”
      Later he explains how he came to that conclusion.
      The question is whether the religious community, mainly orthodox, accepts the premise of the speaker, saying, religious Beat the secular?
      It seems to me, that the answer is negative.
      In my opinion, the conclusions in his speech are accepted only by secular public in Israel.
      (I am one of them ).

      Did he convinced the ultra-Orthodox religious audience who attended the lecture?
      I doubt.

      Shalom Caisary kaizerman
      Israeli Tourist guide ,Anthropologist and Sociologist
      ??? ??????

    30. Shy Guy says:

      Shalom Caisary kaizerman Said:

      Did he convinced the ultra-Orthodox religious audience who attended the lecture?

      That was pretty much the point of the lecture – to make them realize that they have to start taking charge and responsibility. If you’re looking for change overnight, you will be disappointed. What Lapid is admitting is that a transition has begun.

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