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  • April 7, 2013

    HAUNTING SMILE OF GIRL FACING THE HOLOCAUST

    by Paul Harris

    How Hitler’s PERSONAL photographer captured for history the plight of the Jews in Nazi-occupied Poland

    • Hugo Jaeger’s photographs normally celebrate the glory and triumphalism of the Third Reich
    • But in this set he depicts the tragic circumstances of Jews while allowing them to retain their humanity and dignity
    • Taken in the Polish town of Kutno in 1939 and 1940 they have been released to mark the official establishment of the Warsaw Ghetto

    She has such natural beauty, she could pass for a movie star.

    She smiles, her demeanour relaxed. In normal times, this young woman would surely have enjoyed a bright and happy future, perhaps with a husband, children, grandchildren.

    But soon after this photograph was taken, she would face almost certain death. The haunting image is one of a series depicting Jews in Nazi-occupied Poland before they were rounded up to be sent to the gas chambers.

    Girl with smile
    Despite the awfulness of her predicament, this Jewish woman manages to smile brightly for the camera as she poses for Jaeger


    center>Elderly man

    An elderly man with a yellow Star of David fixed to his chest, speaks with German officers as he and other Jews are rounded up in Kutno, German-occupied Poland in 1939
    TXT
    Innocent victims: These young Jewish girls couldn’t possibly have imagined the horrors that lay ahead as they pose outside their tent in another haunting photograph taken by the ardent Nazi Hugo Jaeger
    The clue is the curled-up piece of yellow cloth the unknown woman wears on her lapel — a makeshift Star of David.

    All around her, and in other photos taken in the ghetto into which the Nazis corralled their prisoners, every man, woman and child was forced to wear one.

    In peacetime, the six-pointed star was a proud symbol of Judaism. In the Holocaust which Hitler was about to unleash — here in the devastated town of Kutno — it would become their death-star.
    THE REMARKABLE COLOUR IMAGES were taken by the Führer’s personal photographer, a loyal follower given unprecedented access to the Third Reich’s elite. Hugo Jaeger was allowed to travel with Hitler to record his appearances at rallies, intimate parties and in private moments. More usually he dedicated himself to lionising his leader and what the Nazis regarded as their most triumphant moments.

    Here, it appears, he seems simply to have been fascinated by faces from a different faith in a country under siege. He is said not to have shared Hitler’s unqualified hatred of Jews. Hence, whether he intended it or not, Jaeger’s camera captured an atmosphere rarely seen before horror and carnage overtook it.

    Ghetto boys
    Ghetto boys: In their tattered rags the two boys smile for the camera, but the man in the centre, most probably their father, has a look of distrust etched across his face
    Misery
    While most Jaeger’s photographs focus on the glory and triumphalism of the Reich, here he has chosen instead to capture the misery of the conquered people instead
    Three Girls In Coats
    With their clean clothes and hair neatly coiffured, these three young women do not, at first glance, appear anything like Jaeger’s other subjects. But look closer and you find a star of David on the coat of the girl on the left

    AFTER SO MANY YEARS, it is impossible to know for certain why so many people in the photographs are smiling. None appears to have been forced to pose, none seems to display any fear.

    The trilby-hatted man in the coat with a fur collar, for example, seems quite comfortable in the company of German officers. Children in the squalor of a tented village appear unperturbed by the photographer. Yet Kutno, 75 miles west of Warsaw, had been bombarded and turned into a ghetto soon after Hitler’s invasion in September 1939.

    Its sugar factory would be surrounded by barbed wire and used to imprison 8,000 Jews, crammed into appalling conditions.

    Some would die of infection or starvation. Others would not live through the bitter cold of the winter.

    The ghetto existed until 1942, when most of its surviving inhabitants were sent to death camps.

    Woman Bending Over Stove
    An elderly Jewish woman bends over her stove while a man, his Star of David badge clearly visible, watches over her in the Kutno Ghetto
    Making A House Out Of A Car
    Makeshift dwelling: Jewish inhabitants of the Kutno Ghetto stand near a car which has been converted into a makeshift house in early 1940
    Woman With Jug. Elderly Man
    A young woman clutches a jug as she escorts an elderly Jewish man through the Kutno Ghetto in early 1940

    IT IS HIGHLY UNLIKELY ANY OF THE PEOPLE in these images survived. Incredibly, the photographs did.

    The Kutno ghetto was ‘liquidated’ as part of the Final Solution in the spring of 1942. In 1945, as the Allies advanced into Germany, Jaeger knew he would be arrested and tried as a war criminal if he was caught with so many intimate photos of the defeated Führer.

    So after secreting them, initially in a leather suitcase, he buried them in airtight glass jars outside Munich, returning from time to time to check they were safe.

    Two decades after the war ended, he sold them to Life magazine.

    Now the pictures have gone online at Life.com. Despite attempts to identify some of the subjects, no record was ever found of the smiling young woman.

    Historians said it would be astonishing if she had survived. At least the camera immortalised her.

    The photos have been released to mark the official establishment of the Warsaw Ghetto in October 1940 and the entire set are on display at Life.com
    (http://life.time.com/history/world-war-ii-color-photos-from-nazi-occupied-poland-1939-1940/?iid=lf|latest#1)

    Aerial View
    Daily life: An aerial view of the Kutno Ghetto which was set up on the grounds of a sugar factory
    Woman and Washing Board
    A Jewish woman uses a washing board to clean clothes in the Kutno
    TXT
    Fate: In 1942, as part of Hitler’s ‘final solution’ the Nazis began Operation Reinhardt, the plan to eliminate all of Poland’s Jews. In the spring of 1942 the Kutno Ghetto itself was ‘liquidated’

    EDITOR’S ADDENDUM

    These photos come from a story in LIFE magazine: called “The Brink of Oblivion: Inside Nazi-Occupied Poland, 1939-1940″ that is archived at
    http://life.time.com/history/world-war-ii-color-photos-from-nazi-occupied-poland-1939-1940/?iid=lf|latest#1. Justyna MajewskaJustyna Majewska, who works as a curator at the Holocaust Gallery in the Museum of the History of Polish Jews in Warsaw, wrote this Foreword to the article.

    In the late 1930s and early 1940s, a German photographer and ardent Nazi named Hugo Jaeger enjoyed unprecedented access to the Third Reich’s upper echelon, traveling with Adolf Hitler to massive rallies and photographing him at intimate parties and in quieter, private moments. The photos made such an impression on the Führer that Hitler famously declared, upon first seeing Jaeger’s work: “The future belongs to color photography.”

    But beyond merely chronicling Hitler’s ceaseless travels, Jaeger also documented the brute machinery of the Reich, including the Nazi invasion of Poland in 1939. Here, LIFE.com presents a series of photos from Warsaw and from the town of Kutno, 75 miles west of the Polish capital, in 1939 and 1940. Adding perspective to the images is an essay (below) by Justyna Majewska, discussing just what Jaeger’s haunting images can still tell us about that era, three-quarters of a century after they were made. — Ben Cosgrove

    Why would Hugo Jaeger, a photographer dedicated to lionizing Adolf Hitler and the “triumphs” of the Third Reich, choose to immortalize conquered Jews in Warsaw and Kutno (a small town in central Poland) in such an uncharacteristic, intimate manner? Most German photographers working in the same era as Jaeger usually focused on the Wehrmacht; on Nazi leaders; and on the military victories the Reich was so routinely enjoying in the earliest days of the Second World War. Those pictures frequently document brutal acts of humiliation, even as they glorify German troops.

    The photographs that Jaeger made in the German ghettos in occupied Poland, on the other hand, convey almost nothing of the triumphalism seen in so many of his other photographs. Here, in fact, there is virtually no German military presence at all. We see the devastation in the landscape of the German invasion of Poland, but very little of the “master race” itself.

    It is, of course, impossible to fully recreate exactly what Jaeger had in mind, but from the reactions of the people portrayed in these images in Warsaw and Kutno, there appears to be surprising little hostility between the photographer and his subjects. Most of the people in these pictures, Poles and Jews, are smiling at the camera. They trust Jaeger, and are as curious about this man with a camera as he is about them. In this curiosity, there is no sense of hatred. The men, women and children on the other side of the lens and Jaeger look upon one another without the aggression and tension characteristic of the relationship between perpetrator and victim.

    [Read the stranger-than-fiction story of how Time Inc. came to own Hugo Jaeger's archive, and see more of his photos.]

    Strikingly, none of the people in these photos appear to have been forced to pose. In fact, Jaeger probably asked them for permission to take their pictures; maybe he and they had a short chat before he began photographing them. We can even go so far as to suggest that there is no sign of overt brutality here. To Jaeger (unlike for so many of the Reich’s supporters), Jews were not mere “rats,” or “parasites”: He simply perceived them as fascinating subjects. While he probably felt that their subjugation was inevitable in the face of the German Blitzkrieg, he nevertheless captures these already subjugated people sympathetically.

    We know, all these decades later, that these thousands of people were, in fact, prisoners, whether or not the ghettos that would follow had already been built. [NOTE: In a city the size of Warsaw the creation of the notorious ghetto was quote complicated, and took a few months to complete; in Kutno, the Jews were forced into their ghetto in one day.]

    We know what it means that their homes had been destroyed. We know what the anti-Semitic regulations — like the yellow Star of David that Jews were forced to wear at all times in public — would ultimately come to symbolize. But Jaeger, photographing in 1939, shows these people as a community trying to rebuild against all odds.

    Seeing these photographs today, seven decades later, we know the harsh, unspeakable truth. Within a very short time, the situation for Kutno’s and Warsaw’s native Jews became more and more difficult, and ultimately catastrophic. Poles and Jews were separated from one another. The Nazis created a Jewish council, the Judenrat, responsible for making Jews obey the Germans’ diktats. The food supply dwindled horribly.

    In June 1940, all of Kutno’s roughly 8,000 Jews were forced into the ghetto — the grounds of an old sugar factory. Typhus and hunger soon began killing hundreds of them. In 1942, the Nazis implemented Operation Reinhardt, which effectively put in motion the Nazi’s planned destruction of all Polish Jewry. In the spring of 1942 the Kutno Ghetto itself was “liquidated.” Jews who were unable to escape and find help among their Polish neighbors were taken to Kulmhof (Che?mno), the first death camp, located on the River Ner not far from the city of Lodz. There, thousands of Kutno’s Jewish men, women and children were put to death in “gas vans” — mobile gas chambers — in what were among the first mass murders of the Holocaust.

    Operation Reinhardt also sealed the fate of the Jews of Warsaw. Liquidation of the massive Warsaw Ghetto started in July 1942 and took nearly three months. Horrifically overcrowded cattle trains carried 300,000 Jews to Treblinka death camp.

    All these many years later, Jaeger’s pictures from Warsaw and Kutno are still so hard to look at — and hard to turn away from. I presume that the beautiful young girl seen smiling directly, confidently, at the camera (slide #1 in this gallery) is Jewish: on the collar of her coat, we see what is evidently a folded, yellow Star of David. Neither she, nor Jaeger himself, could have truly, fully foreseen her fate: to die of typhus, or to starve to death, or to be forced into a gas chamber at Chelmno, only to emerge again in a haunting photograph long, long after she was dead.

     


    Paul Harris is an English newpaper columnist and author. This article appeared October 17, 2012 on the Mail Online (UK) and is archived at

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2219304/Haunting-smile-girl-facing-Holocaust-How-Hitlers-PERSONAL-photographer-captured-history-plight-Jews-Nazi-occupied-Poland.html.


  • Posted by Ted Belman @ 1:37 pm | 82 Comments »

    82 Comments to HAUNTING SMILE OF GIRL FACING THE HOLOCAUST

    1. rongrand says:

      @ yamit82:

      Uncle, I watched and there is no doubt it was a long journey home with many bumps along the way.

      This did not come without a price, a price too dear to allow leaders to give away and inch of land.

      There can only be one state, the Sovereign Jewish Nation of Israel with it’s capital Jerusalem.

      You can tell Ovomit and all his cronies and the Hitlers of the world to stick the two state solution where the sun doesn’t shine.

    2. yamit82 says:

      Matthew Said:

      And while the Islamic extremists would fully support the complete extermination of all Jews in the world, we have to keep in mind that not all Muslims share these beliefs. We have to be careful not to scapegoat other groups in our quest to protect and secure the State of Israel.

      THE DISEASE OF MORAL EQUIVALENCY?????

      I think our Prophet Isaiah had you in mind when he wrote:

      “Woe unto those who speak of Evil as [if it were] Good, and of Good as [if it were] Evil; who make Darkness into [the semblance of] Light, and Light into [the semblance of] Darkness; who make Bitter into [the perception of] Sweet, and Sweet into [the perception of] Bitter.” (Isaiah 5:20)

      On a national level there are no innocents not in today’s real life nor in the past. The collective rights always supersede Individual ones. There are always moral options of individuals to do what their moral compasses dictate and by passive inaction their fate is sealed with the collective. There are no innocents!!!

      “…Abraham was still standing before the Lord.” Genesis 18

      “And Abraham approached and said, “Will You even destroy the righteous with the wicked?” “Perhaps there are fifty righteous men in the midst of the city; will You even destroy and not forgive the place for the sake of the fifty righteous men who are in its midst?” “Far be it from You to do a thing such as this, to put to death the righteous with the wicked so that the righteous should be like the wicked. Far be it from You! Will the Judge of the entire earth not perform justice?” “And the Lord said, “If I find in Sodom fifty righteous men within the city, I will forgive the entire place for their sake.” “And Abraham answered and said, “Behold now I have commenced to speak to the Lord, although I am dust and ashes.” “Perhaps the fifty righteous men will be missing five. Will You destroy the entire city because of five?” And He said, “I will not destroy if I find there forty-five.” “And he continued further to speak to Him, and he said, “Perhaps forty will be found there.” And He said, “I will not do it for the sake of the forty.” “And he said, “Please, let the Lord’s wrath not be kindled, and I will speak. Perhaps thirty will be found there.” And He said, “I will not do it if I find thirty there.” “And he said, “Behold now I have desired to speak to the Lord, perhaps twenty will be found there.” And He said, “I will not destroy for the sake of the twenty.” ” And he said, “Please, let the Lord’s wrath not be kindled, and I will speak yet this time, perhaps ten will be found there.” And He said, “I will not destroy for the sake of the ten.”

      ” And the Lord departed when He finished speaking to Abraham, and Abraham returned to his place.”

    3. What I hope I said was the man pictured speaking to the Nazi, knew he was being used,but hoped to gain some small benefit Perhaps food or medicine. I t was i mplied in another comment that the man was friendly with the nazis

      This is a reference to my comment which Yamit82 with whom I have strong political differences tried to make Little of.

      I had written:

      I am very glad indeed that this wonderful article is getting attention. I am struck by the Jewish man chatting with his killers. As we are immersed in such lies of today from such a wide section of society what I reflect on is the great secrecy beind the Nazis plans, and ALSO the great secrecy which exists today, where it is not just lies, but what I have referred to as tens of thousands of petty tyrants in radio and media stations throughout the world, censoring our views, which is our very life blood. Remember that Pamela Geller refers to the Media as the Enemedia. Remember that despite or indeed because of rightful difference of views among ourselves as to the way forward we have to above all defend the right to speak

      You take the Word “chatting” to represent frindliness.

      But not at all in my vocabulary and in the context of the full comment.

      You people are very good at picking out a phrase and/thus distorting the content of what I said. In this case a Word.

      It is possible that these Jews were very confused about what was happening to them. They did not understand what was happening.

      They had no education to equip them with what was happening.

      What the pictures represent is a situation of power, the power was in the hands of the Nazis, and also since this was Poland represented here also was the betrayal of Stalin and Stalinism.

      It is possible maybe likely that these Jews knew nothing of the politics of the situation.

      For example had they been able to follow closely and study the situation in 1933 when the German Nazi Party had taken the power of the state into its hands and immediately closed down all opposition to it, and in the first place the organization of the working class of Germany, moving on later and quickly to ALL opposition?

      The parallel to what is in Egypt in our time, in these days, is striking

      But Yamit82 (and I have seen no opposition to him from ANY of you) is saying that the coming to power of the Muslim Brotherhood in place of Mubarak was not an issue. I argued against Yamit82 on this from the very beginning, now years ago, and now I am joined by people like Pamela Geller and Robert Spencer and implicitely against the barren political perspective of Yamit82 on this.

      Read again ALL of what I wrote. Please do not ever tear one Word out of its context.

      This is a question of power. This man did not have it and he knew THAT very well. That is the point I made. And had he wanted to understand really what was happening he would as Dean intimates found it very difficult. THAT is precisely the point my comment made so slyly distorted.

      On this Holocaust Remembrance we have very much the same situation today. There is a virtual iceberg of silence which is being orchestrated by what I said, a tens of thousands of petty tyrants in radio and media stations, this is where my position chimes in with Richard Landes.

    4. yamit82 says:

      Felix Quigley Said:

      You people are very good at picking out a phrase and/thus distorting the content of what I said. In this case a Word.

      Who is you people? Do you mean we Jews? Sorry, can’t help myself because that’s what we Jews do. nit-pick over words, meanings and contexts, it’s in the DNA.

    5. Bernard Ross says:

      yamit82 Said:

      I have suggested similar several times in the past but I named as a target a small isolated oil field. To show both Iran and Europe that we hold the matches that could bring an end to their civilizations

      good idea!

    6. Bernard Ross says:

      Judith Schonebaum Said:

      I was appalled by some of the “hate and jealousy” I’ve read above.

      A much more appalling behavior are the lies which you disseminate. I cannot be sure whether you are ignorant, lazy or just plain disingenous. Unlike you, who makes libelous assertion without giving any reasons facts and examples, I will explain why I make my statements. You exhibit ignorance because your libels show that you are unaware of the repeated libelous assertions which the MSM has been carrying which are dis-proven)jenin massacre, mohammed al dura,etc. only last week an arab BBC reporter claimed the IDF killed his baby and the UN later proved it was a hamas missile; It was carried on BBC and WAPO plus other MSM). Lazy because you are too lazy to read the abundant publications which prove these libelous wrong. Disingenuous because you know they are lies but you repeat them anyway or because you believe the lies because it fits comfortably with your views of Israel and Jews.
      Where do you see jealousy? what could the pals possibly have that Israel would be jealous. Read Israel21C to get a regular update on the medical, technological, social, environmental advances made in Israel and then you will see how incredibly ludicrous your accusation is.
      Regarding hatred, what is not to hate?
      –the fact that every inch of the former palestine mandate territory which is currently controlled by the muslims is JEW FREE (jordan, gaza, PA west bank) or that any more territory that they swindle from the jews will be made JEW FREE according to their own staements?
      –the fact that they train their babies to hate and kill Jews?
      —the fact that the euro serial jew killers and swindlers are funding arab terror orgs to kill jews and helping them swindle jews of the land that the euros drove the jews from?
      –the fact that abbas cannot hold an election because the majority of the “innocent” pal arabs would elect hamas because hamas has vowed to exterminate the Jews?
      –the fact that the pal arabs refugees and their descendants are fully supported by european and american money whereas the 3/4 million jews ethnically cleansed from arab nations as a result of the same conflicts have not received a dime or even moral support and condemnation; and this after the Geneva conventions originated?
      –the fact that people like you can obscenely relate to the “innocent” arabs in their Israeli create ghettos while these innocents hurl missiles at civilians and slit the throats of jewish babies on because the babies are jewish.
      Yes, I hate these things and these people, including you. I find no difference between the christian blood libels that jews put the blood of christian children into their matzoh than the libels which you are spreading now. I find your statements as despicable and disgusting as you would likely find someone stating that you fornicate with your father.

      As you might have deduced I have chosen to believe that you are disingenuous rather than just lazy or ignorant. The reason I believe this is that you repeat the same generic parrot robot clone libelous accusations which I often find in MSM blogs from anti semitic trolls. One of the tactics of these anti semitic trolls is that they often pretend to be Jewws who had relatives die in the holocaust. We have already had those types on this site. If you are not what I believe you to be then I advise you to find sources which are not spreading libels. If you are indeed a Jew you must ask yourself whether the accusations bear any relation to what you already know about your fellow jews. then you must ask yourself: why do you desire to believe such obviously lying epithets about the jewish people. Yes Virginia, there is a santa claus and he is regularly bringing you truth about the real behavior of the jewish people and Israel daily in the MSM just as the same truth was brought to the world in the 1930′s.
      Judith Schonebaum Said:

      Can nothing stop this vicious cycle?

      Yes, you ceasing to spread lies about Israel and the the Jewish people. When you stop purchasing and giving life to these lies the fake pal arabs will stop fabricating these lies for your consumption.
      Judith Schonebaum Said:

      we are all connected as human beings and deserve fair treatment and equal justice.

      Are you implying they dont get justice and fair treatemtn , another of your lies? are they being slaughtered like the afghans, Iraqis, serbs who you slaughtered?
      Judith Schonebaum Said:

      I know this comment will attract derision,

      And rightly so! Derision, ridicule and disgust are your just due for libeling the people of Israel.

    7. Bernard Ross says:

      A list of Lies with an intentional propoganda flair and agenda from a false identity????
      Judith Schonebaum Said:

      But what about the innocent Palestinians who have never done anything to anybody,

      those who vote for hamas extermination of the jews and send their children to train as jew killers, who teach their children hatred of the jews from anti semitic textbooks funded by the EU?
      Judith Schonebaum Said:

      who now live in a ghetto created by Israel?

      the one in gaza wtih the new malls and hotels? On this site is a recent publications of the real Warsaw Ghetto. Do the Pals in the Ghetto look like those Jews?
      Judith Schonebaum Said:

      …we blame a whole group for the sins of a few

      Just a few?
      Judith Schonebaum Said:

      Can nothing stop this vicious cycle?

      Vicious cycle? The Jews commit the same terror as the muslims? Equality?
      Judith Schonebaum Said:

      we are all connected as human beings and deserve fair treatment and equal justice.

      Do the arabs get unfair treatment and unequal justice in Israel? Do the Jews get fair treatment in muslim areas, or perhaps just lynched? Is justice for arabs in Israel less than for arabs in muslim countries?
      The prior obvious slanted statements are subliminally concocted with an intentional agenda. this is the reason why I believe the following statment to be of the same nature as the others:
      Judith Schonebaum Said:

      Many of my relatives died in the Holocaust,

      I also beleive the author gave a pseudonym.
      What do you think?

    8. Bernard Ross says:

      repy 7 to “judith schoenbaum” in moderation

    9. Bernard Ross says:

      Judith Schonebaum Said:

      who now live in a ghetto created by Israel?

      This libel is a double as it compares gaza with the warsaw ghetto of the article and avers that any “ghetto” or arab slum would have been created by Israel. It is a known propaganda methodology.

      I find this comment especially repulsive considering the photos we are looking at about Jews in a real ghetto without malls and luxury hotels. It is a despicable comparison which could only be made by the lowest and vilest of characters. This is the explanation for my posts to “judith shoenbaum” who has desecrated the memory of the Jews of this article with the most dishonest and disgusting of methods.

    10. rongrand says:

      @ Judith Schonebaum:

      I was appalled by some of the “hate and jealousy” I’ve read above.

      Judith, what don’t you understand about hate and jealousy?

      Maybe you can shed some light on why it was necessary to exterminate 6,000,000 Jews.

      I have yet been told what crime if any they committed to warrant this hate for them.

      Could it be they feared the Jews.

      Fear they could see through their evil agenda.

      Jews didn’t have an army (<em>fortunately for them they didn’t otherwise we would be talking about 6,000,000 dead Nazi’s) to threaten anyone with.

      The German Reich feared smart people would not buy into their garbage.

      Now Moslims hate them and want to kill them.

      Jealousy, think about it. consider the scientific and medical achievements alone from the Jewish world.

      From this small but giant Jewish Nations comes some of the most unbelievable discoveries and inventions.

      Surrounded by crazy Arabs who have nothing comparable to offer all while treating their own citizens like crap especially their women.

      Jealous, you bet your ass they are.

    11. Dean says:

      @ Bernard Ross:

      What I find disturbing about Judith Schonebaum is that her views and lies are not uncommon and she may actually believe that “Palestinians” live in the same way that Jews thrown in death camps once suffered.

      She may actually believe that “Palestinians” are where they are today because of Israel and not because of their repeated attacks on Israel.

      The closed mind of the leftist will not allow her to examine the truth in an objective way. Everything she says has been screened through the prism of her leftist victimology creed in which she immerses with help from left-wing journalism and perhaps her own religious institution.

      She is weak, ignorant of the facts and not prepared to do any further study. Like the religion of Islam, Leftism has been written for her and she must follow like a slave. If the leftists tell her that Jews are oppressors along with all the other lies that roll off her pen, then she is very comfortable letting the world know that she is an ignoramus and she teaches others to believe in the same prejudices, biases, and intolerance against people who have always been the targets of abuses by such simpletons (many simpletons like her become the sheep manipulated by the Hitlers and Islamic terrorists of this world to kill Jews and others).

    12. rongrand says:

      @ Judith Schonebaum:

      Judith, by the way I forgot to mention the Jews do have an Army today, the IDF, one of the finest in the world and feared by every Arab nation and rightfully so.

      Why do you think the Arabs seek the support of the anti-Semite government leaders for help.

    13. Bernard Ross says:

      @ Dean:
      I have a reply to “shoenbaum” in moderation which would explain why i believe that ‘shoenbaum” is a false identity. If you carefully analyze “her” statements you will see that there is a pattern and method which are indicative of propaganda methods well known to those who apply them. My reply in moderation looks at each statement and shows in bold how the lie is propagated. There are organized anti semitic “trolls” who frequent forums in order to influence or disrupt public opinion through specific methods. Sometimes thes are couched in statements as being innocuous.
      Following are the “ideas” intentionally contained in “her” post:

      There are a real people called palestinians
      the palestinians are the innocent side of the conflict
      the palestinians never do harm to anybody
      they live in a ghetto
      the ghetto was created by Israel
      Israel is guilt of collective punishment(sins of a few)
      both sides are behaving equally(vicious cycle)
      the pals are the same as the Israelis (we are all human beings connected- more equality)
      In Israel the arabs get unfair treatment and unequal justice(as opposed to other nations standards)
      You jews are a hateful and jealous people
      Yoy will deride me, I am a martyr
      “many” of my relatives died in the holocaust but..
      “Judith shenbaum” is a jewish name who is for the pals

      It is not a coincidence that all these ideas are contained in a small paragraph. some of the ideas are couched and almost subliminal. I do not beleive the identity is real.

    14. steven l says:

      Dean Said:

      lies are not uncommon

      This word “lies” is inappropriate.
      A lot of people are uninformed, misinformed or uninterested besides all those who have their own agenda. I do not know where she stands? Some have strange ways to assess a situation i.e,: how can 13Mi Jews equal or win against 1.2Bi Muslims or 1.3Bi Christians!!!! It is all about the power of ideas and open-mindedness.
      No need to antagonize someone who might be genuinely un- or misinformed. Sometimes there is a need for arm twisting and Jews more often than not have been the victims (consenting or not).

    15. Bernard Ross says:

      steven l Said:

      No need to antagonize someone who might be genuinely un- or misinformed.

      a person who is genuinely misinformed will realized how dangerous and hurtful the “misinformation” is and will expend energy towards apology and research.
      “Genuine” people are not so quick to make blanket harmful statements about others without reason or facts. this is indicative of dishonest people. those that are being damaged by such statemewnts, the victims of t these libels, deserve the first consideration before the libeler. The libeler needs to understand how serious their libels are. These libels are the same as those which incited genocide,
      steven l Said:

      No need to antagonize someone who might be genuinely un- or misinformed

      I find this comment insulting because it fails to address the potential damages which even the uninformed can cause nor does it give credence to the antagonizaton and insult couched in the posters statements. Those jews who live in the US and Europe who are ignorance of what is going on in the US are a big part of the problem of anti semitism. Ultimately it will be those jews who receive the brunt of their silence just as did the Jews of Europe who thought these libels were not dangerous. . Ignorance is not a defense, and i do not for one moment believe that honesty is what obtained in the post.
      Do you think that comparing gaza to the warsaw ghetto in this article was not antagonizing?

    16. Bernard Ross says:

      reply 15 to steven in moderation

    17. Bernard Ross says:

      steven l Said:

      This word “lies” is inappropriate.

      the statement made were not true, I call those lies. A lie is not made true by the intentions or status of the speaker of the lie.

    18. Bernard Ross says:

      steven l Said:

      I do not know where she stands?

      wherever “she” stands the comments remain untrue, damaging, hurtful and desecrate the memory of the real ghetto inhabitants who are portrayed i photos in this very article. Why doyou defend such reprehensible statements. Do you think it is a minor affair to tell lies about the jewish people?
      steven l Said:

      It is all about the power of ideas and open-mindedness.

      It is about the power of lies and the need for jews to recognize how dangerous those lies are. what is the open mindedness you refer to: an open mindedness towards lies about the jews or an open mindedness to accept lies as ok in chat discussions. I do not know “where you stand” but I stand looking back at 2000 years of euro/christian sserial, chronic, culturally congenital slaughtering, swindling and LIBELING of the jewish people. I stand looking now at the euro christians financing the orgs that murder jews and enthusiastically supporting the claims of others to the land that the Euro/christians exiled the jews from and that the euro/christians guaranteed in legally binding documents and treaties the jewish settlement rights in the historic jewish homeland. I stand looking at a swindling, libeling cesspool with a 200 year, and ongoing, pathology.
      I cannot call a toxic cesspool a bottle of perfume because it offends those who keep adding to the the sewage. this is not a minor issue, it is the crux and basis of the problem: LIES!

    19. Dean says:

      @ Bernard Ross:

      Bernard Ross: I could not have said it better. A lie is a lie and a liar is a liar. I do not know what stevenl is on about – maybe he means that telling a liar that he/she is a lair is offensive and thus not a productive way to conduct polite discussion. If that is what he means, then I disagree just as I disagree with people who dialogue with and try to impress people who hate them with their wisdom, kindness, understanding and intelligence instead of calling them liars. Offending liars is a positive, not a negative. I am not trying to “Win Friends And Influence Enemies,” which is a waste of time.

    20. steven l says:

      @ Bernard Ross:

      I do hope that this is semantic and she perhaps does not know that she uses “info” that are untrue. If she is aware and use them then we agree that she participate consciously to the propagation of false info. If she does not know, then it is ignorance and she needs to be educated. No need, either way, to antagonize.

    21. steven l says:

      @ Bernard Ross:

      look like U may be on something!

    22. Bernard Ross says:

      steven l Said:

      look like U may be on something!

      Yes, it is called facts and truth,

      “Look like you may be on TO something!”

      FIFY, your’re welcome! :)

    23. Bernard Ross says:

      steven l Said:

      No need, either way, to antagonize.

      It should be obvious that I completely disagree with this approach.
      steven l Said:

      I do hope that this is semantic and she perhaps does not know that she uses “info” that are untrue.

      Hope springs eternal! You and I have a different set of priorities which would reflect our different perspectives(where we stand) Your priority, in this discussion, has beento seek rationalizations and explanations for inaccurate, untruthful, hurtful, libelous, inciteful statements.
      Dean Said:

      Offending liars is a positive, not a negative.

    24. Bernard Ross says:

      Dean Said:

      (many simpletons like her become the sheep manipulated by the Hitlers and Islamic terrorists of this world to kill Jews and others).

      those “manipulated” by Hitler are also Hitlers. I do not assume ignorance, laziness or lack of evil intention. The composition of the post is very well thought out with regards to its intended goals. It is not an ad hoc creation. Read it carefully and think over, each statement and clause, and you may conclude that the number of “oblique” statements conveying “ideas” is uncannily high. I did not arrive at my viewpoint or conclusion haphazardly or with carelessness.

    25. dionissis mitropoulos says:

      @ Judith Schonebaum:
      Judith Schonebaum Said:

      But what about the innocent Palestinians who have never done anything to anybody

      It is a sad thing that innocent people fall victims of their own governments. The innocent Palestinians, i.e. those that do not support terrorism, do not vote for Hamas who is a terrorist organization, and do not vote for the PA that is both corrupt and glorifies terrorism, those Pals are indeed innocent victims of their elites, as is the case with the innocent ones in any other country which has a bad government.

      You may soothe yourself with the idea that the number of innocent Palestinians is very small, and, please, don’t blame their fate on Israel: it is their leadership (Hamas and PA) and their compatriots that are voting for these leaderships who are responsible for whatever happens to them.

      Judith Schonebaum Said:

      who [Palestinians] now live in a ghetto created by Israel?

      They chose to live the way they do (which, by the way, is better than the standard of living of the Egyptians) by rejecting the 2000 and 2008 generous Israeli peace offers. It is on them.

      The reason they chose so is that they cannot psychologically overcome the demands of Islam (which commands Jihad until Israel is destroyed)and that they cannot overcome the feeling of humiliation at having been defeated by the Jews at consecutive wars – wars that the Arabs started.

      If you care to read a post in a wonderful Jewish intellectual’s blog, Dr Richard Landes’, you will get a clear picture of what is nagging the Palestinian psyche deep down:

      http://www.theaugeanstables.com/reflections-from-second-draft/paradigms-and-the-middle-east-conflict/honor-shame-jihad-paradigm-hjp/

      Judith Schonebaum Said:

      If we blame a whole group for the sins of a few, are we any better than those who did it to us?

      The few are not few, they are the majority. The majority of the Palestinians support the terrorism of Hamas, they vote for the terrorist Hamas, plus they sympathize with the terrorist tactics of Hamas, as has been shown in polls.

      Judith Schonebaum Said:

      Can nothing stop this vicious cycle?

      Only if the Palestinians overcome their hatred and decide to live peacefully side by side with the Jews. I claim that this is almost impossible, under the circumstances, because the western media with their pro-Pal narrative misinform the westerners, so the Palestinians think that at the end the West will be duped and will force (through economic sanctions) the Israelis to capitulate to the absurd Palestinian demands (e.g. the right of return of the fake refugees).

      I do not mean it offensively, but you are clearly a victim of such misinformation.

      Judith Schonebaum Said:

      Many of my relatives died in the Holocaust, but it does not stop me from believing we are all connected as human beings and deserve fair treatment and equal justice.

      The Palestinians are getting more than fair treatment: they are terrorizing continuously, and yet Israel has been extremely reluctant to enter Gaza and kill all the terrorists.

      The Palestinians are, literally, getting away with murder – courtesy of the western pressure on the Israeli government to disallow it from exercising its right to self-defense against the Hamas terrorists.

      Would you have felt connected as a human being with your rapist? Even if you did, you have no moral right to ask it of other rape victims – and that’s what the Israelis are right now, rape victims of a West that does not allow them to deal with the Palestinians in the appropriately harsh way that the terrorists are asking for.

      Judith Schonebaum Said:

      I know this comment will attract derision, but I was appalled by some of the “hate and jealousy” I’ve read above.

      No jealousy, just hate.

      And it is a very natural hate, considering that the Israelis have been behaving towards the Palestinians more morally than the West could ever behave if it found itself under the circumstances that the Israelis face. When you behave not just morally, but even better than morality dictates (as the Israelis have been doing) and all you get in return is slander about “oppressive Israelis”, “Israelis are the new Nazis”, “Israelis are supremacists and racists”, “Israel does not want peace”, “Israel is intentionally targeting children”, then the most natural psychological response is hate.

      I am sorry to hear about the way your parents died.

    26. steven l says:

      We need either cool head or Kool Aid.

    27. steven l says:

      @ Bernard Ross:

      We are on the same side of the fence. Our MO are different. That ‘s all.

    28. steven l says:

      @ Bernard Ross:
      I wonder when (if ever) she put a foot in IL? a Yes would not be sufficient.

    29. Dean says:

      @ Bernard Ross:

      Yes, simpletons are often little Hitlers when they carry out their evil plans. Yes, on second reading, “her” post probably is the work of a propagandist, maybe for a leftist/Islamist/Marxist/anti-Zionist group. You have a good eye. Whatever its source, a lie is a lie and let’s not waste our time, stevel, scolding ourselves for being impolitic for pointing out the lies.

    30. steven l says:

      Egyptian Columnist: Jewish Internet Moguls Benefit Humanity And Muslims More Than Muslim Scholars And Al-Qaeda

      http://www.memri.org/report/en/0/0/0/0/0/0/7117.htm

      About apes & pigs.

    31. Bernard Ross says:

      @ steven l:
      from your same memri

      http://www.memri.org/report/en/0/0/0/0/0/0/7114.htm
      This is from Jordan, our most stable peace partners

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