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  • January 5, 2014

    Hotovely Presents: The Gradual Plan – ‘Annexation – Naturalization’

    Women in Green

    What is a step by step approach to turning the vision of Israeli sovereignty in Judea and Samaria into a feasible idea? The Deputy Minister of Transportation has an orderly plan and she is convinced that if they just take the trouble to market it well, it will turn out to be much more feasible
    than the ‘Two-State’ vision.

    When Deputy Minister of Transportation, MK Tzipi Hotovely is asked what the Right should present as a political goal and an alternative to the ‘Two-State’ plan she answers simply, “The goal is for Judea and Samaria to be under Israeli sovereignty. It is ours and it was acquired legally in a bloody, defensive war. We must now implement the vision of the Greater Land of Israel and begin to apply sovereignty in all of the territory. This is the vision reflecting belief in the holy precept that the Land of Israel is ours and we have no right to revoke this precept. It is fidelity to the ideology of the Right and the religious public, which believes that this is our land.”


    Although the vision mentioned in the title is a simple concept, Hotovely is well aware of the difficulties that stand in the way of implementing this vision, and the first of them, “the hot potato that everyone has been passing from hand to hand until now” as she defines it, is: what will happen with the Arab population in the territories of Judea and Samaria the day after application of Israeli sovereignty?

    The deputy minister envisions a solution to the matter in gradual phases. “I start with the assumption that this is a hostile population whose abiding dream is not to be part of the Jewish Zionist state. Therefore we must address several matters simultaneously.”

    Jewish-Nationalist Legislation

    The first matter Hotovely addresses is Jewish immigration to Israel (aliyah). “We need to strengthen the Jewish population demographically. When Ben Gurion established the Jewish state, there were six hundred thousand Jews along with four hundred and fifty thousand Arabs. These are frightening numbers for a small country without strong defenses. The state could have been destroyed within a short time by Arab procreation and nevertheless Ben Gurion did not
    hesitate; he established the State and opened its doors to the ingathering of the exiles, seeing the 12 million Jews of the Diaspora as a target. If this is what Ben Gurion did when we were a weak country, then when the country is secure and economically strong, a country that is good to live in, should we be ashamed to speak of gathering in the exiles? If, of the nine million Jews in the world, we bring one million, we have already provided a significant demographic answer.”

    Sovereignty over Area C and the Issue of Citizenship

    Hotovely urges a prudent approach to the issue of granting citizenship. “I do not think that it is necessary to give automatic citizenship,” she says and clarifies: “We must begin a gradual process of 25 years under the heading of ‘annexation-naturalization’. Unfortunately, I must now use the ABC letters used in the Oslo documents. As we know, Area C includes the entire Jewish population and along with it a small number of about one hundred thousand Arabs.

    This is a number that the State of Israel can manage. I’m not satisfied with just this, and I have no intention to give up ninety percent of the territory or to establish a hostile entity in the remaining area, like the one in Gaza, and this is in addition to my ideological objection to such a concession.”

    “That group of one hundred thousand will be a sort of test case for the future,” she adds and clarifies: “Laws will be passed to define the State of Israel as a state for the Jewish people, the Law of Return will be anchored as a Basic Law and within the framework of the Jewish laws of the state, it will be stated that all who request equal rights in the State of Israel will have obligations such as taxes and National Service. The Arab population today is free of these obligations and this population will be tested anew within the framework of new obligations. I do not believe in declarations of
    loyalty but in the test of actions. Whoever does not take part in National Service and bear part of the economic burden does not deserve to have certain rights. We must abolish the thought that since they are native-born, we cannot apply the naturalization laws to them. We must bear in mind that this is a hostile entity and it is impossible to turn them into citizens overnight. There is an intermediate phase of residency that can serve as a sort of candidacy period for citizenship. The drastic step of immediate citizenship for a million and a half Palestinians would be irresponsible and to think of doing such a thing is not serious.”

    Hotovely believes that a phased process such as this, beginning in Area C, would be a significant statement to the world that “the ‘Two-State’ story is over. We cannot continue on this pointless course that leads nowhere.”

    “Which is Preferable – the Gaza Model or the Sakhnin Model?”

    Hotovely is also aware of the difficulty of “selling” the strategy she describes to the Israeli public, who, according to her, want to see the Arabs on the other side of the fence – mixing the populations worries and concerns both the Left and the Right. “I ask a simple question. What is better for you, the Gaza model or the Sakhnin model?

    Sakhnin is indeed not an exemplary model of citizenship but, given the problems the State of Israel has in controlling the Arab population, applying Western thought patterns and developing an understanding that it pays to live with us allows for a vision of future coexistence. This is in addition to an intelligence point of view.”

    Marketing Hotovely’s vision will not be easy within Israel or abroad. She knows this but nevertheless declares, surprisingly, that selling the idea abroad will be easier than doing it internally. “I get on with the world easily because this plan is a democratic plan, a plan that says that after you have tried to establish a Palestinian state, (and the leadership in Israel was ready for almost anything including dividing her capital), at the end of the day, you have not succeeded.

    The other side does not want to end the conflict and there are great disparities between the two sides. And there is not one Palestinian leader who would agree to any one of the principles to which every Israeli leader has committed himself – regarding Jerusalem, refugees and areas for blocs of Jewish communities. No Arab leader would agree to Jewish blocs of communities. They will not concede Ariel and Ma’ale Adumim. They will not give up Jerusalem or the right of return. You have been trying since ’47 and you have not succeeded. If you try something six times with six different plans, leading to a partitioning of the Land, you must draw the right conclusions. If you feel sorry for the Palestinians, let them be citizens with equal rights in a democratic state.”

    Hotovely denies what is described as the right of Palestinians to self-define. She notes that “they belong to the greater Arab nation and if there is any place where there is a concentration of ethnic Palestinian population, it is the present Kingdom of Jordan and therefore, I do not feel guilty at all for not allowing them to establish another Arab state”.

    “This is a democratic suggestion that does not depend on external factors. We suggest to the Palestinians that if they don’t want citizenship, it’s alright, but Palestinian refusal must result in an Israeli counter-reaction.”

    “Freedom of Expression Must be Subject to Red Lines. We Must Determine Who Will Represent the Arab Public”

    As mentioned, Hotovely believes that persuading Israelis will be more difficult than influencing international opinion. “The Israeli public has a problem because it foresees Arab representatives in Knesset as subversives, as potential Hanin Zoabis. The State of Israel must have red lines on this issue, even with all its aspiration for freedom of expression. The Basic Law of the Knesset does not permit Balad (an Israeli Arab political party), which collaborates with terrorists and spies, to express its contempt. Yet this occurs anyway because Bagatz (the High Court of Justice) ratifies the presence of these people in our parliament, time after time. We must change the rules of the game and define who is permitted to represent the Arab population. We must not accept a reality in which those who hold hands with Hamas and Hizb’Allah can sit in the Knesset.”

    When she is asked about the chances for her plan to be accepted within our political reality, Hotovely is convinced the chances are good. “The vision of two states began in the lunatic fringe of the Left with Uri Avnery and Luba Eliav, who managed to sell a plan that was originally attacked by Golda Meir, Yigal Allon and the VIPs of Mapai (the left-wing pre-cursor to the modern day Labor Party), all of whom thought that a Palestinian state would be a terrible thing, and now this plan has become mainstream as a result of brainwashing to the point that even within the Likud, they speak of it as if it were Jabotinsky’s vision. If a plan based on a false premise was able to
    win such acceptance, a true plan should be accepted much more easily.”

    Towards the end of her address, Deputy Minister Hotovely gives credit for the plan that she presents to Uri Elitsur, who has been promoting this basic outline recently. “We must restore our confidence that if the Holy One, Blessed Be He, gave us parts of this Land, he also gave us the strength to be its sovereigns,” and with this she seals her words.

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  • Posted by Ted Belman @ 7:10 am | 40 Comments »

    40 Comments to Hotovely Presents: The Gradual Plan – ‘Annexation – Naturalization’

    1. CuriousAmerican says:

      Roughly similar to what I have been suggesting …, though I think paying some to leave should be a preferable first start.

    2. Ted Belman says:

      I also believe that we should start by annexing Area C but not as it now stands. Since we will be abrogating Oslo in so doing we will not be bound by the exact boundaries of Area C. We should annex what we want and straighten out the boundaries even if this means we must take in another 100,000 Arabs.

      Aside from stimulating Aliya, there is no reason why we don’t also offer these Arabs money to leave.

      The present rules for A and B to remain until we have stabilized the Arab population in the newly annexed territories. Having then learnt from that experience we can then proceed to deal with the rest of the Arabs. We could have Kedar’s model on the table. Similarly limited autonomy on the table or even compensated emigration.

      Its doable.

    3. Bear Klein says:

      @ Ted Belman:
      This is the best idea going and I think it should be promoted. e.g. Hotley’s vision plus destroying the PA and experimenting with Kedar’s “Palestinian Emirates plan“, which envisages the Palestinian Arabs (in Area A /B) retaining autonomy over their cities, but stops short of offering a state – which Kedar sees as not viable given the local Arab population’s competing tribal factions – or any further territorial concessions by Israel.

    4. yamit82 says:

      CuriousAmerican Said:

      Roughly similar to what I have been suggesting …, though I think paying some to leave should be a preferable first start.

      Not in the least!!! Your stated ideas have been to either grant full citizenship to all Arabs living in any annexed territory or paying them to leave. You have not made any other suggestion, that I am aware of..Correct me if I am wrong.

    5. CuriousAmerican says:

      @ yamit82:
      Not in the least!!! Your stated ideas have been to either grant full citizenship to all Arabs living in any annexed territory or paying them to leave. You have not made any other suggestion, that I am aware of..Correct me if I am wrong.

      My general way of stating it is:

      1) Pay theme to leave (preferreed)
      -or-
      2) enfranchise them (Slowly)

      You will see that I used the list form many times.

      This roughly corresponds to her plan which starts with annexation of area C, but move slowly to annex all the area.

      So, it does correspond ROUGHLY to what I have been suggesting.

    6. yamit82 says:

      CuriousAmerican Said:

      So, it does correspond ROUGHLY to what I have been suggesting.

      No matter it’s a stupid idea.

      My Objections:

      The last thing Israel needs is more Arab citizens: More than 36 percent of the Israeli Arabs were under the age of 15. In the next ten years most will have a vote. It won’t give them a majority but it will skewer their proportional electoral power to influence along with left wing parties votes for laws that diminish the Jewish content and nature of the Jewish Zionist state. when they reach 30% or more they can align with leftist and post Zionist parties to form a democratic majority government coalition. Their electoral strength will peak in only a few years because of the under 15 demographic today. In the 80’s and early 90’s Israel was saved by Russian immigration were it not for that the Arabs would have over 30% today.

      I don’t see any similar mass immigration to Israel from the West and North America. There is no other immigrant potential, we have already absorbed most of the Jews from Arab and Muslim countries… there is no more realistic potential; we have them all here in Israel.

      Even if Ettinger is correct he doesn’t consider Israeli Arabs demographics and the lower Jewish birthrate kept only from total collapse by the religious orthodox.

      Israel incomprehensibly subsidizes Israeli Arabs, gives them free infrastructure, education, insurance, and family benefits.

      If Israel does nothing, the Arabs’ birth rate will make them a majority in Israel,(without any absorption of West Bank Arabs) or at least the largest coherent faction in Israeli parliament, in a few dozen years. The more the Israeli Arabs breed, the harder it will be for Israel to transfer them.

      Israel has no guilt over her Arabs. Israel did not ship their ancestors from Africa or systematically kill them while colonizing. Israeli Arabs do not suffer discrimination but on the contrary Israel gives them tax advantages over Jews. The Arab economic input in Israel is almost zero, perhaps less, considering what the Israeli government pays to educate them, house them, and take care of them. Israeli Arabs enjoy high incomes and social guarantees compared to their Islamic brethren elsewhere. Israeli Muslims generally do not serve in the Israel Defense Forces and defend the Jewish state. Yet they constantly demand from Israel accommodation of Israel’s enemies. Israeli Arabs are not proper citizens of Israel in any normal sense, Israel has no obligation to them and can transfer them out.

      In June 2013, the Central Bureau of Statistics released a demographic report, projecting that Israel’s population would grow to 11.4 million by 2035, with the Jewish population numbering 8.3 million, or 73% of the population, and the Arab population at 2.6 million, or 23%. This includes some 2.3 million Muslims (20% of the population), 185,000 Druze, and 152,000 Christians. The report predicts that the Israeli population growth rate will decline to 1.4% annually, with growth in the Muslim population remaining higher than the Jewish population until 2035, at which point the Jewish population will begin growing the fastest
      Fertility rate, by year and religion2012 (Jews)3.04 – (Muslims)3.54

      I have a lot of disagreement with Jewish-Arab Demography Defies Conventional “Wisdom” Yoram Ettinger

      No society can remain stable with such a large minority of basically enemies. Israel security services maintain that tens of thousands of Arabs infiltrate the West Bank yearly and many into Israel proper. We don’t know the actual numbers estimates range in the hundreds of thousands of undocumented Arabs living in Israel. Then there are family unification concessions where Israel has allowed Israeli citizen to marry non Israelis and bring their new spouses and family members into Israel. Tens of thousands have legally entered Israel in this manner. It was halted for awhile during and just after the last intifada. Those claiming tha annexation of just Area C will only absorb a limited number of Arabs don’t take into consideration what I have just explained, not to mention that each is a potential terrorist, helper or enabler.

      Adding any significant number of Arabs to legal citizenship status would mean a return to the pre-1948 days of violent confrontation between Arabs and Jews that had led to the Peel Commission in 1937 and the United Nations in 1947 recommending partition of Palestine into one Jewish State and one Arab state – proposals rejected on both occasions by the Arabs.

      The Arabs in 2014 are not the same peasant Arabs of pre 1967 Israel and the territories, they will at some point besides the terrorism threat demand ethnic and geographical autonomy as is happening today in the Galilee.

      We want the Land but not the Arabs and I see no solution other than transfer of all Arabs from Israel and sovereign territorial areas under Israeli control and especially those under Israeli sovereignty.

    7. yamit82 says:

      Comment in moderation

    8. CuriousAmerican says:

      @ yamit82:
      We want the Land but not the Arabs and I see no solution other than transfer of all Arabs from Israel and sovereign territorial areas under Israeli control and especially those under Israeli sovereignty.

      I have suggested paying them to leave as preferential to enfranchising them.

      So why do you call my idea, idiotic?

      BTW: I agree that Yoram Ettinger is wrong. The Arabs have babies earlier. Which means that even if Orthodox Women and Arab Women have the same number of kids, the Orthodox women will have three kids in the same time that the Arab Women has 9 (3×3) grandkids.

      Ettinger does NOT take that into account.

      I also agree that once they hit 30% of the electorate they can ally with the Left and non-Zionist Haredi and then the game will be lost.

    9. Yidvocate says:

      The plan has merit although I don’t see why this enemy population has to be given any road to Israeli citizenship. The Arabs stole 80% of the land mass that was by international law reserved for a Jewish state. Why can’t Israel take the position that as far as they are concerned they consider these Arabs Jordanians (which is what they were in fact till Jordan illegally revoked their citizenship overnight)and therefor owe them no political rights whatsoever. In fact they would possess far greater “civil rights” than any Jordanian and certainly be at par as far as “political rights” are concerned with any Jordanian (who have virtually none). Ah but you say the world will never accept that and call us an apartheid state. So what. Do you think they will accept our annexation or anything we do? They already call us that and much worse. Time to do what is good for the Jews and not the goyim.

      Parenthetically, no one seems to be paying much attention to the inevitable demographic decline should, G-d forbid, the 2-state fiasco become a reality. The outcome would be a demoralized, indefensible truncated Israel in which Jews would be scrambling for safer lands. Immigration would all but dry up entirely (who’d want to cram into this truncated existentially imperiled state?) while emigration would sky rocket.

    10. CuriousAmerican says:

      @ Yidvocate:
      Why can’t Israel take the position that as far as they are concerned they consider these Arabs Jordanians (which is what they were in fact till Jordan illegally revoked their citizenship overnight)

      I am not sure you can take that position without bringing up that in 1949 or 50, Israel revoked the citizenship of Arab refugees – who by International Law should have been given citizenship in the state which followed after the British left the Mandate.

      If Israel could separate from the refugees in 1949, then Jordan could separate from the Palestinians.

      Further aggravating the problem is that many of those Palestinians have roots in Jaffa, and Haifa, not Amman. Many have never set foot in Jordan.

      It is tricky. If you make one claim, the Arabs will bring up the other claim.

      IF IT WAS THAT EASY, ISRAEL WOULD HAVE MADE THAT CASE A LONG TIME AGO.

    11. Yidvocate says:

      @ CuriousAmerican:

      Israel did not revoke any national rights that may have been granted or implied under the British mandate. Those “rights” simply expired when the British terminated their mandate on May 15, 1948. And even at that, any such rights conferred by the British were ultra vires of the Mandate as only Jews were accorded political rights in Palestine.

    12. yamit82 says:

      CuriousAmerican Said:

      I have suggested paying them to leave as preferential to enfranchising them.

      So why do you call my idea, idiotic?

      I said transfer them not pay them. I have made a single concession and that is to pay them for loss of legal registered property based on current property evaluations by an accepted professional Jewish assessor.

      If they refuse to leave and have to be forced to leave they will get nothing except a bullet if they resist with violence. In any event they are to go. My suggestion is fairer than they were to Jews they drove out of Arab countries and honestly I see no reason we should treat them any better than they have treated Jews in the past or would treat them if they had the power today.

      Look at it as historical corrections of past injustices to Jews. Transferring them would be the second leg of population transfer begun in the late 1930’s. They kicked out their Jews and stole their wealth and possessions we would only be completing the population exchange they began.

      Re: what the world will say or do? Fuck em!!!!

      Remember Balak and Balaam!!!

      The Philistines upon them!

      Remember Balak

    13. yamit82 says:

      @ CuriousAmerican:

      As soon as the Arabs in Palestine rejected partition and joined in the war against the Jews the resolutions became dead letters and non applicable. In defending themselves the Jews increased the territory above the amt allocated under partition by some 20% and since the Arabs were the aggressors and chose war over compromise when they lost they lost and have no claims or rights. Show me any legal precedent anywhere where an aggressor loses and is awarded victory? If Israel had lost the war they would have been annihilated.

      I submit the principle of winners win and losers lose. The Arabs with Jewish perfidious squeamishness and the backing of Arab oil wealth and mostly corrupt antisemitic Western nations have turned losers into would-be winners and winners into losers.

      Just because we pissed off all you christians by winning what almost all expected us to lose explains the reasons why the west led by America has tried to annul our victory of 1948 and later 1967 to such an extent that it has become an obsession and an irrational obsession at that.

    14. honeybee says:

      @ yamit82:

      Ignore me and pletzels will you.

    15. yamit82 says:

      honeybee Said:

      Ignore me and pletzels will you.

      Why would I ignore you?

      Watched two palyoff games and dozed off for awhile :(

      Pletzels???? What the hell is that??

    16. martin says:

      I am getting so weary of Israel’s national impotency. I truly hesitate to express an immodest comment, but I am quite knowledgeable about the Arab-Israeli conflict and have known for many years the only possible rational solution: it is not Annexation- Naturalization but Annexation – Transfer. Foreign [ Arab] workers may be permitted residence as restricted guests. Annexation from the river to the sea and transfer of non-Jews. Be done with it. Such ideas are in part and stages are now coming to the surface, at long last. It is inevitable. Israel does not have enough blood to bleed forever.

    17. honeybee says:

      yamit82 Said:

      Why would I ignore you?

      cause you rather argue then flirt!!!!!!!!
      yamit82 Said:

      Watched two palyoff games and dozed off for awhile

      So who’s goin to the Super Bowl?????????
      yamit82 Said:

      Pletzels???? What the hell is that??

      Jewish onion pizza!!!!!!!!

    18. honeybee says:

      yamit82 Said:

      it has become an obsession and an irrational obsession at that.

      martin Said:

      Such ideas are in part and stages are now coming to the surface

      Israel won’t play nice and give back the marbles!!!!! Boo hoo

    19. CuriousAmerican says:

      @ yamit82:
      Just because we pissed off all you christians by winning what almost all expected us to lose explains the reasons why the west led by America has tried to annul our victory of 1948 and later 1967 to such an extent that it has become an obsession and an irrational obsession at that.

      Stop with your paranoia. If you have a problem with Jesus Christ (Yeshua ben YHWH, not your insulting yeshu), know that one day everyone will answer to Him.

      But moving on … Your Paranoia is crazy. Absolutely insane.

      If the Christians hated Israel so much … AS YOU CLAIM … why did the UN General Assembly vote for partition in the first place. They could have voted NO to a Jewish state and ended right their in the docket at the UN in New York.

      I could bring up cases where Christians were killed en masse by Jewish tyrants – and from Jewish sources. You know they are out there.

      No one is innocent.

      In any event, if Christians, who were the majority at the UN in 1947 were opposed to Israel, there never would have been a partition vote.

    20. Shy Guy says:

      CuriousAmerican Said:

      If the Christians hated Israel so much … AS YOU CLAIM … why did the UN General Assembly vote for partition in the first place.

      Guilt.

      It’s worn away since then.

      The Lord works in mysterious ways. No dead pagan jesus mangod deity on a stick required!

    21. CuriousAmerican says:

      @ Shy Guy:
      Guilt.

      It’s worn away since then.

      It did not wear away between Nov 1947 and May 1948.

      Do not be ridiculous.

      I cannot believe how often we are told that “You Gentiles felt guilty.”

      Actually, as an American, I feel NO guilt at all for the Holocaust. Never did.

      You would be amazed how many Gentiles live larges sections of their lives not even concerned about Jews. Contrary to what you may think … Gentiles do NOT go around constantly thinking up new ways to make Jews’ lives miserable.

      You ascribe to us a malice that is not even there. It borders on paranoia

      The Lord works in mysterious ways. No dead pagan jesus mangod deity on a stick required!

      You will answer to Yeshua Ben YHWH one day. We all will. I am not thrilled about that. I have my own sins, just like everyone else; but He is merciful.

    22. Bill Narvey says:

      C.A. please spare me looking up what you had in mind and provide source links to your statement: Christians were killed en masse by Jewish tyrants – and from Jewish sources.

    23. Shy Guy says:

      CuriousAmerican Said:

      It did not wear away between Nov 1947 and May 1948.

      Do not be ridiculous.

      I said “since then.” Reading is fundamental.

      Actually, as an American, I feel NO guilt at all for the Holocaust. Never did.

      How about “as a christian”, pilgrim?

      Contrary to what you may think … Gentiles do NOT go around constantly thinking up new ways to make Jews’ lives miserable.

      With possible rare exception, which I cannot think of what that might be, history proves you wrong.

      I never said “all” or even “most” christians.

      You will answer to Yeshua Ben YHWH one day.

      Crackpot! Stop talking to the walls.

    24. honeybee says:

      CuriousAmerican Said:

      No one is innocent.

      What is that joke the RCs tell, Jesus stops a stonin saying,”Let those without sin cast the first stone” and then in horror turns as a stone hurtels pass,”Mother put down the that rock”!!!!!!!!

    25. honeybee says:

      CuriousAmerican Said:

      new ways to make Jews’ lives miserable.

      I give my Tx,take him peaseeeeeeeee!!

    26. yamit82 says:

      CuriousAmerican Said:

      But moving on … Your Paranoia is crazy. Absolutely insane.

      If the Christians hated Israel so much … AS YOU CLAIM … why did the UN General Assembly vote for partition in the first place. They could have voted NO to a Jewish state and ended right their in the docket at the UN in New York.

      Paranoia? Check the historical record: The 1947 partition was by any standard overly generous to the Palis Arabs: they lost to Jews only a tiny strip near the Golan Heights, and a beach strip less than five miles wide in some areas. The Russians supported establishing Israel for a reason: they expected that the Jews would be annihilated almost immediately by Arab invaders. When that plan failed, the Russians started deporting their Jews to Siberia for planned starvation. The UN partition was murderous to Jews: we received a relatively large chunk of uninhabitable desert (the Middle East’s Siberia) but otherwise a decidedly indefensible statelet broken into three chunks.

      Superficially, the Palis state also came in three chunks, but each of them bordered a friendly Arab state (Egypt, Jordan, and Lebanon, respectively). The world might not care about Palis Arabs, but the 1947 partition map proves beyond dispute that the nations intended to finish the Germans’ work. The proposed Jewish state—a patchwork of three indefensible areas—included a 40 percent Arab population, leaving no hope of Jewish statehood. Add the US embargo on arms sales, the British aid to Arabs, and the Russian sales of outdated firearms specifically to keep the war going in order to dissuade the Jews from capitulating. The UN intended the State of Israel to become the final Auschwitz.

      The Arabs, rather rationally, always viewed the christian-dominated UN as an instrument rather than an arbiter. Arabs universally rejected the 1947 UN resolution on partition, and the Arab High Committee explicitly rejected the UN’s authority in that regard. The Arabs were correct: it is unreasonable for an international body to go on partitioning countries at whim, and the Arabs viewed Palestine as their country. Since then, Arabs pick and choose from UN resolutions to their liking.

      Stop with your paranoia. If you have a problem is with Jesus Christ (Yeshua ben YHWH), know that one day everyone will answer to Him.

      I don’t have a problem with him if he ever existed in fact which I doubt. Anyway he is dead, dead I say!!! :) I only have a problem with true believers in false dieties and myths calling themselves christians. But not only me, as history has demonstrated.

    27. honeybee says:

      @ yamit82:

      Who cares about CA. I worry about any Jew who never ate a pletzel. Flat bread with an onion poppy seed topping. I have a very secret recpie.

    28. Shy Guy says:

      honeybee Said:

      pletzel

      I think the last time I ate pletzel was over 30 years ago. That gave me a memory fart! :lol:

    29. honeybee says:

      @ Shy Guy:

      Knishes give farts,not pletzels. There was a Jewish bakery that made the best pletzels,then the owner passed away. I hungered! and then miraculiousy discovered the secret. I made then for my Father,he was diabetic, and of TX fell in love with them. I also cook for a friend at the flea market, I brush mine with an egg yoke and they turn out as golden as Delilah’s backside.

    30. Shy Guy says:

      honeybee Said:

      as golden as Delilah’s backside

      Asschemy?

    31. honeybee says:

      Shy Guy Said:

      Asschemy

      Asstonding deliicious

    32. yamit82 says:

      CuriousAmerican Said:

      I could bring up cases where Christians were killed en masse by Jewish tyrants – and from Jewish sources. You know they are out there.

      No one is innocent.

      List them for the uneducated. If you do find any examples pls include relevant contexts as you christians tend to either omit or become very creative when composing or reporting your narratives.

    33. yamit82 says:

      honeybee Said:

      What is that joke the RCs tell, Jesus stops a stonin saying,”Let those without sin cast the first stone” and then in horror turns as a stone hurtels pass,”Mother put down the that rock”!!!!!!!!

    34. yamit82 says:

      @ CuriousAmerican:

      You will answer to Yeshua Ben YHWH one day.

      My link is not the one Shy posted but another.
      Crackpot! Stop talking to the walls.

      His name was really Ben, would that be Big Ben or little Ben?

    35. honeybee says:

      @ yamit82:

      I watched the video,of Monty Python, but the ad proceeding the video,ymm. Did you wear spandex when you played football???????Darlin

      ps if so please send pics!!!!!!!!!!!

    36. yamit82 says:

      CuriousAmerican Said:

      If the Christians hated Israel so much … AS YOU CLAIM … why did the UN General Assembly vote for partition in the first place. They could have voted NO to a Jewish state and ended right their in the docket at the UN in New York.

      I hope you are not intimating that the UN approved partition because of guilt relating to the Holocaust or sympathy for the Jews? If you are then say so plainly.

    37. yamit82 says:

      @ honeybee:

      When I played football shoulder pads were considered sissy wear. HELMETS WERE MADE OF LEATHER. SPANDEX WAS NOT INVENTED YET. ;)

    38. honeybee says:

      @ yamit82:

      LEATHER WAS INVENTED THE EARLY???????????????????//////

    39. honeybee says:

      yamit82 Said:

      I hope you are not intimating that the UN approved partition because of guilt relating to the Holocaust or

      A resservation for Jews,so they could be more eassy controlled! “Goodness had nothing to do with it”!!!!!

    40. honeybee says:

      yamit82 Said:

      SPANDEX WAS NOT INVENTED YET

      Could this be the reason you don’t wear spandex????????: http://youtu.be/U6m_Fq6dsIo

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